Paris is Burning: an observation
Stephen Allen Chappell
(and our newest member... Bill from Toronto).
I was struck by an interesting thought... while all of these poor
black men are trying to act more and more like white collar rich folks...
there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
[] Urso
--
[] Stephen Allen Chappell a.k.a. "Urso" ______
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, USA (home of the 1996 Olympics!) \ ooo
[] cco...@prism.gatech.edu \ ( )
[] NBCS: B4 cd f gv k+ rv s-(++) t w+ \/
George Dalton Madison
>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
Indeed -- I was marvelling in Email the other day to a friend
at the dichotomy I see within myself, between the upper-middle
class socialization, the "Good Boy," and the wilder, less
restrained side that has distinct aspirations toward becoming
"Scooter Trash." Or, at least, smoking cigars, drinking Jack
Daniel's and listening to music my mother would *hate*. (ZZ Top,
Motorhead, and the latest addition -- Metallica.)
It's a VERY strange sensation.
() Hush little baby -- don't say a word |
() And never mind that noise you heard | -- _Enter Sandman_
() It's just the beasts under your bed | by Metallica
() In your closet, in your head!!! |
-----
[George D. Madison, a/k/a Furr | 8-{)##] | NBCS:B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv PIG 8/7]
[> fu...@cup.portal.com <#> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <]
Joseph Francis
>I finally saw Paris is Burning this past weekend with my bear family
>(and our newest member... Bill from Toronto).
>
>I was struck by an interesting thought... while all of these poor
>black men are trying to act more and more like white collar rich folks...
>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
There was an interesting, though seriously flawed book by Paul Fussell
a few years back called "Class". In it he asserted that homosexuals
are stereotyped by: gays wanting to be upper class, and lesbians
wanting to be lower class; he qualified it by gay taste in Lalique and
fine silver, and Lesbian taste in plaid trucker outerwear. Since
Fussell himself after years (oh, 50?) of heterosexuality, switched
gears and became gay, then decided it was too late and too awful,
switched back. I can only shudder to think of what he 'tried'.
Somehow I'm not quite sure that the movement among white men for
'bearishness' is to act more like blue collar poor folks (it used to
be only professors and other reasonably intellectual groups who had
beards; the term 'long-haired'). I think it has something to do with a
reaction to views of health promoted in the '80s, the fact that the
gay population has been ravaged and previously non-vocal groups have
little competition, a nostalgia for the '70s as a source of imagery
(remember long hair, sideburns, beards?), that the population in the
US isn't so young any more, and that the gay community is more mature
and perhaps is interested in more mature values which might seem to be
embodied more in someone like your father than someone like your son
or brother. Then of course there is the Eastern-European truckdriver
with big hairy knuckes, and black curly hair so deep you can't see his
skin, who with a big belly can't keep his pants up so you see a tuft
of hair where his shirt parts in the front.
...
We're seeing the tip of the iceberg. Wait until it hits the straight
community hard (I see it spilling over already...).
--
| Le Jojo: Fresh 'n' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live
| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.
Jeff Dauber
>black men are trying to act more and more like white collar rich folks...
>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
[put on amateur sociologist hat]
There is a sociological theory about the rise and fall of different
cultures. It says basically that when a society is on the rise, the
lower classes imitate the upper classes. When a society is declining,
the upper imitate the lower.
This can be seen in american society, wear work clothing (jeans, work
shirts, etc etc), get tattooed, and so forth.
In Japan, this is begining to happen. It has not progressed as far...
Anyway, just thought I'd share that...
Jeff
-FWA
Doug M
>gears and became gay, then decided it was too late and too awful,
>switched back. I can only shudder to think of what he 'tried'.
>
>| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.
This is intriguing. Paul Fussell's son Sam has written an appealing
little book called "Muscle", about such aspects of his life as a
post-academic bodybuilder as he cared to reveal. There's quite a bit
of obviously conflicted stuff about queerdom in the book, as well as
what seems an unnecessary amount of reference to the disintegration
of his parents' marriage. For someone who's spent *years* in gyms
he seems to cling too closely to the literary device of naivete in
writing about his first and subsequent encounters with queer gym rats;
I ascribed this to the usual reasons, but maybe he's got an ancester
in his closet as well.
Some of the writing is pretty good, though the dramatic devices and imposed
analysis remind me of innumerable Melville papers. And the most
accurate accounts, to those who know the venues, are very funny.
From the purely esthetic perspective, like all large bodybuilders Sam
should have throttled back about thirty pounds earlier.
doug maisel
"I am not a twink!" R. Nixon
David B. Hempling
In article <35...@hydra.gatech.EDU> cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) writes:
>I finally saw Paris is Burning this past weekend with my bear family
>(and our newest member... Bill from Toronto).
>
>I was struck by an interesting thought... while all of these poor
>black men are trying to act more and more like white collar rich folks...
>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
Don't you know that inside every gay man is a black woman screaming to
get out?
:-)
Mmmm-mmm!
Ron Rizzo
>>Fussell himself after years (oh, 50?) of heterosexuality, switched
>>gears and became gay, then decided it was too late and too awful,
>>switched back. I can only shudder to think of what he 'tried'.
>>
>>| Le Jojo: Fresh 'n' Clean, speaking out to the way you want to live
>>| today; American - All American; doing, a bit so, and even more so.
>
>This is intriguing. Paul Fussell's son Sam has written an appealing
>little book called "Muscle", about such aspects of his life as a
>post-academic bodybuilder as he cared to reveal.
Thanks, Doug, for reminding me I'd read a review of MUSCLE. Another
rat (Sam Fussell)'s been smoked out. Why did he walk such thin ice?
Chances are literary friends of the family who'd read & review the book
know his father's gay.
I had no idea Paul Fussell was gay. For those who don't know who he is,
he's an historian/writer who made a big splash in the last 5 years with
widely acclaimed books on the 2 world wars, considered to be among the
best works on the subject. So a literary hero of today's martinet
intellectuals and Gulf War-jockey techies is queer. It's a very old
tradition: TE Lawrence in the 20th century, Burton & Gordon in the 19th,
Frederick the Great and a allegedly bisexual Napoleon in the 18th, all
the way back to Alexander and the Amazons.
Why do so many writers live in glass houses, rocks in hand? Paul Theroux
has the annoying habit of referring to "a bit of lavender" as his atrophied
tribute to the grand tradition of mandatory literary homophobia. He even
brings his parents into the game (his railway book about the Americas).
But his brother, Alexander (author of DARCONVILLE's CAT and 3 WOGS) devotes
an entire comic novella to the affair between a gay vicar(?) and an African
student in England, written in a wildly flamboyant neo-Joycean style that
would make Ronald Firbank positively chartreuse with envy. Alexander is
married and I'd guess heterosexual but his wilder earlier life stands in
rather stark contrast to his brother's willful primness.
Libre la bete mauve!
Vive les grandes nus!
Ron
******* This space for rent. Contact Ron at bbn.com!rrizzo *******
Six Prostrations Press of Port Talleyrand, Republic of Pogo, is
pleased to offer a special gilt edition of the text of the 1st
Annual Fenwick Lecture in Political Thought:
"Kings in Republics: Bug or Feature?"
by Crown Prince Ron of Pogo, a feudal republic with optional monarch,
as delivered this past August 14th from the Leopard Throne Room,
Goodhumors House, The Links, Republic of Pogo.
The slender volume is cased in an exquisite slipcover of 100% pure
shrinkwrap sealed with the royal crest of King Marvin IVth in genuine
green vinyl for only $9.95 plus postage and handling. This item is
NOT available in stores.
Ronald Rizzo
John Corcoran
says:
>
>Steven Allen Chappell ["Urso"] writes:
>>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
>
>Indeed -- I was marvelling in Email the other day to a friend
>at the dichotomy I see within myself, between the upper-middle
Having spent the first 22 years of my life relentlessly pursuing
the "good boy" upper-middle class ideal, I finally figured out
that these beer-drinking cigar-smoking working class white trash
have more fun. Once I discovered that, I figured it was better
to be one than to look down my nose at them. Besides, I have
these white trash genes I gotta do something with. :-)
Corcoran@Portland(.caps.maine.edu) Corcoran@Maine(.maine.edu) are:
John Corcoran, University of Southern Maine, Portland, Maine 04103
207 780 4226 __ NCBS B5 cd e+ f r+ sv t+
"I forsook the company and dinner parties, the port wine and
champagne of the middle classes and devoted my leisure hours
almost exclusively to intercourse with plain working men."
--Frederick Engels, _Conditions_of_the_Working_Class_
_in_England_in_1844_, Introduction
Rob Boldbear
cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
Are you talking about in our culture in general, or just in the gay (male)
community? Maybe you'd want to elaborate.
Wrt it being seen in the bear phenomenon, if you're referring to looking
grubby, wearing "work clothes", caps, etc., that's been around in the
gay male community long before the recent bear phenomenon. While some
elements of that may have existed for a *long* time in the gay male
leather community, they became very widespread with the "clone" look of
the 70's, which in my estimation has its roots in the hippy look of
tattered jeans and work shirts.
--
Rob Bernardo (aka Rob Boldbear) r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (510) 827-4301 (hm)
"Patriotism once meant the Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free;
now it means the Home of the Fearful and the Land of the Mindless."
-- Jess Anderson
Steve Dyer
>Having spent the first 22 years of my life relentlessly pursuing the "good boy"
>upper-middle class ideal, I finally figured out that these beer-drinking cigar-
>smoking working class white trash have more fun. Once I discovered that, I
>figured it was better to be one than to look down my nose at them. Besides,
>I have these white trash genes I gotta do something with. :-)
She stoops to conquer... Sigh.
Actually, John, the illusion is almost complete until the topic
of Episcopalianism comes up... :-)
> "I forsook the company and dinner parties, the port wine and
> champagne of the middle classes and devoted my leisure hours
> almost exclusively to intercourse with plain working men."
> --Frederick Engels, _Conditions_of_the_Working_Class_
> _in_England_in_1844_, Introduction
Um, "Proletarii bcex stran, idite na huj!" No?
--
Steve Dyer
dy...@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Stephen Allen Chappell
>>Don't you know that inside every gay man is a black woman screaming to
>>get out?
>
>it's Linda Ellerbee. :-)
>
>[] Urso
...just to clarify/explain... Linda Ellerbee was once fired because her
voice sounded "too black." She was then replaced by a black woman with
a "white" voice. Therefore, she's an honourary black woman.
There. Make sense?
Didn't think so.
Stephen Allen Chappell
>get out?
For some it's Lena Horn... for some it's Whoopi Goldberg... for some
it's Linda Ellerbee. :-)
Stephen Allen Chappell
>
>cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
>
>Are you talking about in our culture in general, or just in the gay (male)
>community? Maybe you'd want to elaborate.
Oops... sometimes I forget there are staight folks out there in the world.
That's what I get for reading hundreds of soc.motss postings in one sitting.
I meant gay men.... primarily white gay men.
Tezcatlipocateopixque
>cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
The interesting assumption Chappell makes is that these "white men" to
whom he refers are not blue collar. What he is missing is that class
is not an income amount, but a cultural network. One cannot change
class, no matter what the American Myth may say. A boy raised in a
poor, lower middle-class environment will be poor, lower middle-class
until he dies, even if he makes a small fortune: that is what is known
as New Money. Class is no less escapable than race.
--
"The greatest possible mint of style is to make the words absolutely
disappear into the thought."
-- Nathaniel Hawthorne
Tezcatlipocateopixque
->Having spent the first 22 years of my life relentlessly pursuing
->the "good boy" upper-middle class ideal, I finally figured out
->that these beer-drinking cigar-smoking working class white trash
->have more fun.
My poor, ignorant soul, there is a galaxy of difference between white
trash and working class.
->Once I discovered that, I figured it was better
->to be one than to look down my nose at them.
How very generous of you.
->Besides, I have
->these white trash genes I gotta do something with. :-)
You sure do -- snide, middle-class trash genes. It's patronizing
fucks like you that justify class resentment.
by...@mscf.med.upenn.edu
[some deleted]
> I had no idea Paul Fussell was gay. For those who don't know who he is,
> he's an historian/writer who made a big splash in the last 5 years with
> widely acclaimed books on the 2 world wars, considered to be among the
> best works on the subject. So a literary hero of today's martinet
> intellectuals and Gulf War-jockey techies is queer. It's a very old
> tradition: TE Lawrence in the 20th century, Burton & Gordon in the 19th,
> Frederick the Great and a allegedly bisexual Napoleon in the 18th, all
> the way back to Alexander and the Amazons.
[the rest deleted]
Fussell is also the Donald T. Regan Professor of English Lit. here
at Penn. Now do you remember who Donald T. Regan is?
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Rob Boldbear
>In article <1991Sep5.0...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US> r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>>
>>cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>>>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>>>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
>>
>>Are you talking about in our culture in general, or just in the gay (male)
>>community? Maybe you'd want to elaborate.
>
I'd still like to here you elaborate on your observations.
Jack Campin
> I had no idea Paul Fussell was gay. For those who don't know who he is,
> he's an historian/writer who made a big splash in the last 5 years with
> widely acclaimed books on the 2 world wars, considered to be among the
> best works on the subject. So a literary hero of today's martinet
> intellectuals and Gulf War-jockey techies is queer.
This isn't fair. I've read the parts of Fussell's book on WW2 that the
Guardian serialized, and it was about the least likely thing imaginable to
appeal to a technological war freak. He's obviously a pacifist; the
details he unearths are too disgusting to fudge with any amount of
ideological romanticization. For example, he cites large numbers of US
soldiers in the Pacific who were hit by flying bits of human flesh from the
fragmented bodies of shelled fellow-soldiers: their relatives were just
told they'd been shot.
--
-- Jack Campin Computing Science Department, Glasgow University, 17 Lilybank
Gardens, Glasgow G12 8QQ, Scotland 041 339 8855 x6854 work 041 556 1878 home
JANET: ja...@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk BANG!net: via mcsun and ukc FAX: 041 330 4913
INTERNET: via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk BITNET: via UKACRL UUCP: ja...@glasgow.uucp
Jim Wood
>Thanks, Doug, for reminding me I'd read a review of MUSCLE. Another
>rat (Sam Fussell)'s been smoked out. Why did he walk such thin ice?
>Chances are literary friends of the family who'd read & review the book
>know his father's gay.
Knowing Sam Fussell personally, I don't think he's terribly phased by
what other people think of the sexual orientations of his family members.
To my knowledge, Sam is straight as an arrow, but I had heard that other
members of his family were gay. Since he's been at my (predominantly gay)
gym for six months or so, he's obviously comfortable around us.
Ron, what do you mean to say another rat's been smoked out? Do you think
Sam is gay, or that he makes homophobic remarks in his book?
Jim Wood [jw...@siemens.siemens.com]
Siemens Corporate Research, 755 College Road East, Princeton, NJ 08540
(609) 734-3643
Mick Washbrook
>
> The interesting assumption Chappell makes is that these "white men" to
> whom he refers are not blue collar. What he is missing is that class
> is not an income amount, but a cultural network. One cannot change
> class, no matter what the American Myth may say. A boy raised in a
> poor, lower middle-class environment will be poor, lower middle-class
> until he dies, even if he makes a small fortune: that is what is known
> as New Money. Class is no less escapable than race.
He's right, you know. Before I went to live on a kibbutz for a while,
I worked on a building site in Nottingham to earn some money. There
was never any ambiguity over the fact that I was middle-class and they
were working-class. Though America undoubtedly does have a class
structure, it's not as blatantly obvious as it is in England.
So for 10 weeks, I worked alongside these rough, well-built
English lads. I especially liked the roofers, who all seemed
strapping, healthy specimens. I came away with a new appreciation
for physical labor, but never bridged the class chasm that separated
us.
Elaine Richards
>In article <92...@spdcc.SPDCC.COM>, bo...@spdcc.COM (Tezcatlipocateopixque) writes:
>>
>> whom he refers are not blue collar. What he is missing is that class
>> is not an income amount, but a cultural network. One cannot change
>> class, no matter what the American Myth may say. A boy raised in a
>
>structure, it's not as blatantly obvious as it is in England.
Mick has his finger on the difference between the U.S. class system
and the English (and much of Europe's) class system. In the U.S.,we
are raised to think that we can get ahead and improve ourselves and
wind up with cities like Palm Springs and Beverly Hills. We also wind
up with a lot of people feeling stressed out and believing themselves
to be failures because they did not make their first million by age
30 (like Woz and those guys). At least the Europeans I know understand
those limits imposed by class and appear to be much less stressed ou
by money and appear to enjoy life (and art) more fully.
The kind of behavior I have seen among middle class folk taking on
the trappings of the blue collar worker sure look more like fantasy
than identification to me. Kinda like Martin Short at the dude ranch.
Its fun, its valid, its OK, but as a descendant of cops and firemen
I know its just not very real.
ER
Joshua Geller
Chappell) writes:
|> In article <35...@hydra.gatech.EDU> cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen
|> Chappell) writes:
|> >In article <1991Sep4.2...@quorum.com> hemp...@quorum.com (David B.
|> >Hempling) writes:
|> >>Don't you know that inside every gay man is a black woman screaming to
|> >>get out?
|> >For some it's Lena Horn... for some it's Whoopi Goldberg... for some
|> >it's Linda Ellerbee. :-)
|> ....just to clarify/explain... Linda Ellerbee was once fired because her
|> voice sounded "too black." She was then replaced by a black woman with
|> a "white" voice. Therefore, she's an honourary black woman.
OK I get it. I was wondering for a bit. Thought maybe she was just very very
light. I've met folks lighter than me (I am extremely caucasian). Who were
'black' which sorta seems wierd, but what the hell.
On another note, I have a friend who claimed to be a bisexual man trapped in
the body of a bisexual woman. I responded that I am a bisexual man trapped in
the body of a bisexual man.
josh
The sky is stripped. I am too weak to write much. But still I hear them
walking in the trees; not speaking. Waiting here, away from the terrifying
weaponry, out of the halls of vapor and light, beyond holland and into the
hills, I have come to
Samuel R. Delany
Henry Mensch
->Knowing Sam Fussell personally ...
ah ... guilt by association; the best kind. have you called the
boston herald yet, ron?
(for the mentally-challenged: 6-]. maybe ron will smoke out the rat
george bush as a closet queer tomorrow ... )
--
# Henry Mensch / Advanced Decision Systems / <he...@ads.com>
Greg Parkinson
|> class, no matter what the American Myth may say. A boy raised in a
|> poor, lower middle-class environment will be poor, lower middle-class
|> until he dies, even if he makes a small fortune: that is what is known
|> as New Money. Class is no less escapable than race.
Maybe not for the class you were born into, but for the next - in this
way it differs from race. My mother's family is northern Louisiana
White Trash, my father's was equally poor. Both of them were
smart and lucky and have ended up in the upper-middle-class income
bracket. I grew up in that environment, that class, and it is
now *my* class.
--
Greg Parkinson (GregBear) Phone: 212-657-7814
Citibank Fax: 212-825-8607
111 Wall Street E-Mail: uunet!ibism!glp
New York, NY 10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Stan Brown
>Knowing Sam Fussell personally, I don't think he's terribly phased by
>what other people think of the sexual orientations of his family members.
>To my knowledge, Sam is straight as an arrow, but I had heard that other
>members of his family were gay. Since he's been at my (predominantly gay)
>gym for six months or so, he's obviously comfortable around us.
This phrase can have nearly opposite meanings: "To my certain knowledge",
and "Based on what little I know". Are you telling us that you know
that he's straight or you don't know that he's not?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA +1 216 371 0043
email: br...@ncoast.org -or- ap...@cleveland.freenet.edu
"We have now sunk to a depth at which the re-statement of the obvious is the
first duty of intelligent men." -- George Orwell, quoted in Wall St. Journal
Stephen Allen Chappell
>cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>>In article <1991Sep5.0...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US> r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>>>
>>>cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>>>>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>>>>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
>>>
>>>Are you talking about in our culture in general, or just in the gay (male)
>>>community? Maybe you'd want to elaborate.
>>
>>I meant gay men.... primarily white gay men.
>
>I'd still like to here you elaborate on your observations.
Again, perhaps I should have been more explicit. I was comparing the
sub-sub-culture of the leather/bear/etc. group which attempts to "look"
blue collar and the black urban poor who try to "look" white collar.
I wasn't try to make a grand statement on homosexual men in general, but
a comparison and two seemingly unlike groups and how they're both basically
doing the same thing... just in different directions.
Rob Boldbear
>In article <1991Sep6.1...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US> r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>>cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>>>In article <1991Sep5.0...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US> r...@mtdiablo.Concord.CA.US (Rob Boldbear) writes:
>>>>
>>>>cco...@prism.gatech.EDU (Stephen Allen Chappell) wrote:
>>>>>there seems to be a movement among white men to act more like blue
>>>>>collar poor folks... some of this can be seen in the bear phenomenon.
>>>>
>>>>Are you talking about in our culture in general, or just in the gay (male)
>>>>community? Maybe you'd want to elaborate.
>>>
>>>I meant gay men.... primarily white gay men.
>>
>>I'd still like to here you elaborate on your observations.
>
>Again, perhaps I should have been more explicit. I was comparing the
>sub-sub-culture of the leather/bear/etc. group which attempts to "look"
>blue collar and the black urban poor who try to "look" white collar.
>
>I wasn't try to make a grand statement on homosexual men in general, but
>a comparison and two seemingly unlike groups and how they're both basically
>doing the same thing... just in different directions.
You're avoiding the question. How is the "leather/bear/etc. group"
emulating a blue collar look? I'm very curious about this sort of
thing, and that's why I'm after you to elaborate. One reason why I'm
interested is because a large part of our culture seems to associate
blue collar with masculine, and I've always wondered what the
association is. I really want to hear from you on what your specific
observations are, e.g. what things are "the leather/bear/etc. group"
actually doing that are blue collar-like, in your opinion.
Jim Wood
>wo...@jfred.siemens.com (Jim Wood) wrote:
>>Knowing Sam Fussell personally ...
>ah ... guilt by association; the best kind. have you called the
>boston herald yet, ron?
I can honestly say that my association with Sam Fussell was not
"the best kind." I reserve "the best kind" for other gay men,
preferably well-muscled, dark, and hairy. :-)
Jim Wood
>In article <wood.684163709@jfred> wo...@jfred.siemens.com (Jim Wood) writes:
>>Knowing Sam Fussell personally, I don't think he's terribly phased by
>>what other people think of the sexual orientations of his family members.
>>To my knowledge, Sam is straight as an arrow, but I had heard that other
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>members of his family were gay. Since he's been at my (predominantly gay)
>>gym for six months or so, he's obviously comfortable around us.
>This phrase can have nearly opposite meanings: "To my certain knowledge",
>and "Based on what little I know". Are you telling us that you know
>that he's straight or you don't know that he's not?
"To my knowledge":
- based on what little I know
- no evidence (or suggestion) to the contrary