Closeted Future Politico (was <None>)
Jess Anderson
In article <1990Nov30....@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
ctsg...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brown Behr) writes:
>Since this is my first time posting using a newsgroup
>format, please excuse any errors that may occur.
(None did that I noticed.)
>I have been browsing lately over the 'defense of the closet'
>and ironically today I had a student (I'm a peer counselor)
>tell me that he's gay.
I'm not sure what a peer counselor is. I wonder because it
might bear on what your obligations or responsibilities are
(officially, I mean) wrt this student.
>In our conversation I found out that he wants to go into
>politics and because he would like to do so here in
>Illinois, he's going to stop going to the one bar here in
>Champaign.
But Chester Street is hardly a gay bar, is it? Just because
it's a disco place and there isn't anywhere else much for an
LGBO person to go in Chambana?
So it looks like this guy is *really* uptight about things.
Maybe there should be a professional consultation?
>He also told me that he wants to get married...not because
>he will love his wife and kids but b/c it will be a good
>cover (I cringed but didn't say anything...).
I presume you didn't because you were just trying to hear
him out. But at some point, won't it be necessary to say
something along the lines of: no matter what your personal
aspirations might be, you don't *use* people that way. I
should think a peer counselor (even without knowing what
that is) would feel obligated to intervene at some point
(a judgment call, of course).
One of the reactions running in my head is that this
person is having human problems on a far more basic level
than his sexuality picture, so I'm thinking *that's* the
place to be working with him.
But it does play into things we've been discussing about the
closet too. It just shows how distorting, how intensely
crazy-making, all these fears about coming out can be.
What's this fellow doing? Well, for one thing, he's trying
to insulate himself, to stay in by building a thicker
barrier (wife/kids) [talk about a woman and maybe children
getting a raw deal!]. For another, he's setting himself up
for a number of rude shocks. One is, it won't work; such
barriers are too brittle to last. Also, in politics one
gets enemies, and the enemies are going to uncover his past.
The ultimate goal is help the guy get more comfortable with
himself, I think. He sounds like coming out is not on the
immediate agenda.
>Now I have my own feelings on being out and being in the
>closet. I sorta take a middle of the road stance agreeing
>with BBC but I would like to get input (as I hope I will)
>from you guys
... and women ...
>as to whether this is a smart move for this young man to
>make.
What I might call a certain disingenuousness about that
question troubles me. I mean, I'm having a hard time seeing
*any* way in which what he's proposing is a smart move,
because I think is it more than just a dumb move. To me
it looks like it's a terrible move in just about any way
one might view it.
Thing is, this is a person, however mixed up and maybe made
a little nuts by the things that are happening in his life.
He's trying, it seems, to get *some* sort of stability for
himself under very unfavorable emotional conditions. Well,
I've been crazy more than once in my life, and it isn't much
fun. What helped me more than any other one thing was being
able to trust another person long enough to come to terms
with myself. In the absence of extraordinary parenting, the
most promising context for that might be professional help
or a really good group experience.
>I also would like to know if any of you know of any reading
>material that presents both sides of coming out (I am going
>to give him a copy of the Advocate about gay rebuplicans.
>But there should be more stuff out there).
Both sides? That doesn't compute, for me. A person can
stay in for a hell of a long time, but eventually, I think,
out is what will be.
>Any advice I should give this student?
Basically, I've given mine. But any number of others here
have been through the wringer in various ways, and I'm sure
other suggestions will be forthcoming shortly.
--
Jess Anderson Madison Academic Computing Center University of Wisconsin
Work: Rm. 3130, 1210 West Dayton St., Madison WI 53706, Ph. 608/262-5888
Home: 2838 Stevens St., 53705, 608/238-4833 Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Internet: ande...@macc.wisc.edu UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Bob Donahue
>ctsg...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brown Behr) writes:
>>I have been browsing lately over the 'defense of the closet'
>>and ironically today I had a student (I'm a peer counselor)
>>tell me that he's gay.
>>In our conversation I found out that he wants to go into
>>politics and because he would like to do so here in
>>Illinois, he's going to stop going to the one bar here in
>>Champaign.
Which is of course irrelevant, as WE all know, but he's still
in lesbifag kindergarten... Sigh.
>>He also told me that he wants to get married...not because
>>he will love his wife and kids but b/c it will be a good
>>cover (I cringed but didn't say anything...).
>I presume you didn't because you were just trying to hear
>him out. But at some point, won't it be necessary to say
>something along the lines of: no matter what your personal
>aspirations might be, you don't *use* people that way.
>I should think a peer counselor (even without knowing what
>that is) would feel obligated to intervene at some point
>(a judgment call, of course).
Yeah, sure, BUT --- my first roommate once I moved here
in 1987, was VERY closeted, and when we first started getting to
know each other said the same things. "Oh I like doing things with
men now, but someday I wanna get married and have kids, etc." He
also refused to go to the bars becuz someone might see his car there, etc.
(He didn't mind driving around the block with the gay bookstore 6,000
times becuase he felt that no one would notice... Come to find out later
the ppl in the parking lot (it was the local gay meeting place - not
necessarily for sex, just where people could chat) had dubbed him "the Gas
Queen" but that's another story!)
Anyway, he came along VERY well, once he got comfortable with
the gay community. Right now he is 1/2-out like me but in different
ways (some of his family knows and he is very open about his friends)...
>One of the reactions running in my head is that this
>person is having human problems on a far more basic level
>than his sexuality picture, so I'm thinking *that's* the
>place to be working with him.
Probably. Tough to call from one posting...
>But it does play into things we've been discussing about the
>closet too. It just shows how distorting, how intensely
>crazy-making, all these fears about coming out can be.
Yeah, but a LOT of that isn't just fear - it's ignorance.
When Ray (my ex-roomie) started going out with me to the bars and
meeting other gay people a lot of stuff went away REAL FAST, because
all the misconceptions he was fed died off and he was able to process
his feelings/thoughts/impressions with reality and come out with some
sort of coherent picture.
>What's this fellow doing? Well, for one thing, he's trying
>to insulate himself, to stay in by building a thicker
>barrier (wife/kids) [talk about a woman and maybe children
>getting a raw deal!]. For another, he's setting himself up
>for a number of rude shocks. One is, it won't work; such
>barriers are too brittle to last. Also, in politics one
>gets enemies, and the enemies are going to uncover his past.
Yes and no. The way I see it is he is TALKING to someone,
specifically Brown Behr (who is IMHO of VERY high caliber and well
suited to the task!). Could be that in the back of his head he WANTS
to hear some other option than "apeing the motos-marriage thing". Now
he might not even accept it at first (giving in too easy), etc, but I
think he'll come along just fine as no doubt oodles of the vocal and
non-vocal people have.
>The ultimate goal is help the guy get more comfortable with
>himself, I think. He sounds like coming out is not on the
>immediate agenda.
Oh, he's coming out - he's just getting his first
splash of color. Like I said thirtysomething times before, it's
a process not a switch. But he's making a step, and as long as he
isn't pushed (Hey Eric Holeman you reading this?) too far too fast
he'll do fine.
>>Now I have my own feelings on being out and being in the
>>closet. I sorta take a middle of the road stance agreeing
>>with BBC but I would like to get input (as I hope I will)
>>from you guys and women ...
>>as to whether this is a smart move for this young man to make.
I don't think he is REALLY hard-set on doing this. More likely
(from my POV) what he sees is the only course for him based on his
experience and self-exposure. As he grows into things he'll probably
change his mind. And if he doesn't there is nothing you can do.
Oh, that's right - we CAN'T let one get away! Quick OUT HIM IMMEDIATELY
so he won't have to worry about this at all! [no smiley, but of course
I am being facetious here].
>He's trying, it seems, to get *some* sort of stability for
>himself under very unfavorable emotional conditions. Well,
>I've been crazy more than once in my life, and it isn't much
>fun. What helped me more than any other one thing was being
>able to trust another person long enough to come to terms
>with myself. In the absence of extraordinary parenting, the
>most promising context for that might be professional help
>or a really good group experience.
Sounds sound to me. :-)
>>I also would like to know if any of you know of any reading
>>material that presents both sides of coming out (I am going
>>to give him a copy of the Advocate about gay rebuplicans.
>>But there should be more stuff out there).
>Both sides? That doesn't compute, for me. A person can
>stay in for a hell of a long time, but eventually, I think,
>out is what will be.
Hell is a relative concept. My way of phrasing the above
would be:
A person may take a short time or a long time to come out
depending on his/her feelings and what they are going thru. In the
long run it is less stressful to not have to worry about staying in,
and the longer you *arE* in the harder it will be, but it is a decision
which a person must make on his/her own when one feels it is the right
decision to make.
Which I think shows both of your "sides" to some degree.
>>Any advice I should give this student?
Well, it depends on the level you want to be involved with him.
(I don't mean involved intimately.) You could act as a sounding board
to bounce off impressions and information, you could show him the GBLO*
ropes as it were, or you could simply refer him to a person or group
to do those things... I think the main thing is not to present
him with an ultimatum (as some would). 'No! you are GAY and you MUST
be 100% GAY in very short order! Get OVER it girl!' Feh... In the
long run he has to figger things out inside of himself,w hich no one
can accelerate, or determine the course. Nurture him, enlighten him,
show him the possibilites, etc.
Good luck...
Extra hugs,
BBC