Atlanta bombing
L. Yanney
CNN and other news outlets are reporting a bombing at an Atlanta
nightclub, variously described as "gay", "lesbian", "gay and lesbian" and
"homosexual". Several people were injured, but no deaths are
being reported. According to these reports, city officials are not
ruling out the possibility of a connection to other Atlanta bombings,
which include the Olympic park bombing and the more recent bombing of a
women's health clinic.
I hope that Atlantans know that we share the shock and concern they must
be feeling in the aftermath of this attack. I hope that they can take
a few moments to share more local information in the coming hours and
days.
Let us know if we can help.
Linda
Daniel Chase Edmonds
Anthony J. Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com) wrote:
: Additional details of note: the place was called "The Other Side",
All one word: The Otherside
: and is described (by the ABC evening news) as a lesbian bar.
Primarily, though it draws a fairly mixed clientele.
A friend's girlfriend's daughter saw the blast from her bedroom window,
which is several blocks away, so it must have been rather large. I'll try
to post more details as I find them out, and should, I imagine, have at
least an account of an eyewitness account by tomorrow.
Dan, a little skittish about going out tonight.
Michael Thomas
san...@shore.net (Jeffrey William Sandris) writes:
> I'm horrified. I'm praying for a speedy recovery for the women who
> were injured.
What I wonder about is how the Olympics figure
into all of this. The pattern of gay club and
abortion clinic scream fundamaniac on a mission
from God, but why the Olympics? The only thing I
can think of is a UN conspiracy angle.
--
Michael Thomas (mi...@mtcc.com http://www.mtcc.com/~mike/)
"I dunno, that's an awful lot of money."
Beavis
Greg Havican
In message <5eo290$l...@curly.cc.emory.edu> - ded...@curly.cc.emory.edu
(Daniel Chase Edmonds) writes:
:>
:>Anthony J. Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com) wrote:
:>
:>: Additional details of note: the place was called "The Other Side",
:>
:>All one word: The Otherside
While I never really excelled in math, I believe that's *two* words Dan.
Greg
Greg Havican || Just one of the "neurotic talking heads" of soc.motss.
-------------||-------------------------------------------------------
|| <http://www.io.com/~topman4u>
JTEM
I saw the news reports on the bombing and like everyone else was
disgusted. Outraged.
A few minutes ago I was channel flipping and caught a bit of "The Justice
Files" on the Discovery network. The part I saw had to do with gay
bashings/attacks, all the ones they focused in on being in Texas from what
I could see (Houston in particular). A little factoid they threw up on the
screen at the end was that there were 2,212 "documented" cases of VIOLENCE
against gay men, lesbians and bisexuals in 1995 alone. Oh, the murderer of
a gay man that they interviewed said that homosexuals made easy targets
'cus they can't report it without outing themselves. One might conclude
that a fair number of violent attacks go unreported.
I'm feeling numb.
John
Cornelia Wyngaarden
Greg Havican (Greg.H...@io.com) wrote:
: In message <5eo290$l...@curly.cc.emory.edu> - ded...@curly.cc.emory.edu
: (Daniel Chase Edmonds) writes:
: :>
: :>Anthony J. Rzepela (rzep...@netaxs.com) wrote:
: :>
: :>: Additional details of note: the place was called "The Other Side",
: :>
: :>All one word: The Otherside
: While I never really excelled in math, I believe that's *two* words Dan.
So on my TV screen the the report was voice over a background image of
a huge lit up sign reading Hot Spot.
?
corry
John Dorrance
Greg Havican wrote:
> ded...@curly.cc.emory.edu (Daniel Chase Edmonds) writes:
> :>All one word: The Otherside
> While I never really excelled in math, I believe that's *two* words Dan.
Now, dear, don't be snotty.
John
John Dorrance
Do they have evidence to suggest that all three bombings were
done by the same person?
John
Daniel Chase Edmonds
John Dorrance (jhdo...@students.wisc.edu) wrote:
: Do they have evidence to suggest that all three bombings were
: done by the same person?
So far as I know, nothing beyond 'three similar bombs, maybe the same
person' type evidence.
Tom
Based upon what I hear from law enforcement friends about the Olympic
bombing, abortion clinic bombing and the bombing at The Otherside (one
word guys -- though not grammatically correct), there is an increasing
need to be cautious and observant when going out to the Atlanta bars.
Keep your eyes open folks for anything suspicious. (For those of you
who are involved in tracking hate groups as I am, stay on your toes.)
Whether the three bombings were committed by the same perpetrator or
not, they are becoming increasingly more powerful. The bomb that was
found Friday night on the opposite side of the building from the initial
blast was so powerful it damaged the Andros Mark V robot in which it was
detonated. If you've ever seen one of these things, you'll understand
are powerful the blast was, as the Mark V is literally a tank in compact
form. My guess is shrapnel penetrated the Mark V's shielding.
As bad as this sounds, the fact that the bombs are increasing in power
may help lead to the killer(s). High grade explosives more powerful
than dynamite are not easy to come by. The skills required to use them
are also not common. At least it narrows the field to those who would
be capable of obtaining and using such materials. Hopefully.
Tom
XAOS
Jeffrey William Sandris wrote:
>
> In article <331022...@students.wisc.edu>,
> John Dorrance <jhdo...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
> >Do they have evidence to suggest that all three bombings were
> >done by the same person?
>
> design and were all in Atlanta. There's no hard evidence yet.
The latest bombing was tactically similar to the clinic bomb; one
blast to drive people outside, and a shaped charge antipersonnel
device outside to get the individuals driven out by the first blast.
Very lethal startegy...the Olympic bombing was a more
straightforward bombing.
My instinct is that the latter two bombings are related to one
another, but not to the Olympics (other than someone being inspired
to blow things up).
- Steve, who just hates the fads that catch on in Atlanta
Ken Rudolph
Jeffrey William Sandris wrote:
> Oh, and some of the guys here are chicks.
>
I thought we'd established that "you guys" is inclusive and polygendered
here on soc.motss? Did I imagine that? Paging the usage police! (btw,
isn't "chicks" somewhat offensive in some contexts?)
--Ken Rudolph (ke...@worldnet.att.net)
Tom
Jeffrey William Sandris wrote:
>
> In article <331081...@bellsouth.net>,
> Tom <bentl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >The Otherside (one
> >word guys -- though not grammatically correct)
>
> Tom, words used in direct address are generally set off with commas.
>
> Oh, and some of the guys here are chicks.
>
> [] Jeffrey William Sandris san...@shore.net
> [] "Being deified lets you get away with things."
> [] -Jeremy Mallory
:)
Jeremy Mallory
XAOS (xa...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: The latest bombing was tactically similar to the clinic bomb; one
: blast to drive people outside, and a shaped charge antipersonnel
: device outside to get the individuals driven out by the first blast.
: Very lethal startegy...the Olympic bombing was a more
: straightforward bombing.
As Tony said: sick, sick shit.
: My instinct is that the latter two bombings are related to one
: another, but not to the Olympics (other than someone being inspired
: to blow things up).
"Special rights" and "protected minority" indeed!
Jeremy, oh, and I have this acceptance letter from Emory to deal
with now
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Mallory jmal...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
George Washington University Gelman Library, 714 J
John Whiteside
rzep...@netaxs.com (Anthony J. Rzepela) wrote:
>In the current context (i.e., this thread), who gives a fuck
>in the first place?
Jeffrey William Sandris, I would guess.
---
John Whiteside
whiteside at mindspring.com
Washington, DC
Tim Wilson
In article <3310A7...@worldnet.att.net> Ken Rudolph
<ke...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Jeffrey William Sandris wrote:
>
>> Oh, and some of the guys here are chicks.
>>
>I thought we'd established that "you guys" is inclusive and polygendered
...to some...
>here on soc.motss? Did I imagine that?
Not if you include the words "to some".
> Paging the usage police!
1-Adam-12. See the man.
> (btw,
>isn't "chicks" somewhat offensive in some contexts?)
Absolfuckinlutely. I'd say it's more offensive than "you guys"!
--
Tim Wilson http://www.ee.memphis.edu/~tim/ mailto:t-wi...@memphis.edu
Monkey Boy
John Dorrance (jhdo...@students.wisc.edu) wrote:
Truly. Being wrong is painful enough.
-M*Boy (what's in a name?)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Monkey Boy Email:pars...@mtcc.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Almost all boys are yucky." -Morgan Brown
XAOS
Jeffrey William Sandris wrote:
>
> In article <331022...@students.wisc.edu>,
> John Dorrance <jhdo...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
> >Do they have evidence to suggest that all three bombings were
> >done by the same person?
>
> As I understand it, just the fact that the bombs were similar in
> design and were all in Atlanta. There's no hard evidence yet.
Actually, the wiring and timing devices in the latter two bombs
were similar, but very distinct in design and use from the
Centennial Park (Olympic) bomb.
- Steve
--
"Submit. Obey. Conform. Marry and reproduce."
- Snog, untitled
Darren Scott Cobb
In article <KerryGinn-ya023680...@news.eden.com>,
Kerry Ginn <Kerr...@aol.com> wrote:
>bombmakers were active in that county just before the Olympics. That
>county shall remain nameless simply because its name slips my mind at the
>moment, but I have the urge to call it Cumberland Mall County.
I've often thought that it wouldn't be worth living there just to get
the personalized license plate.
Darren Scott Cobb __ . __ . _/|__ ,
Indiana University }<_;> . }<_;> . /`o _ `\_/
das...@indiana.edu __ . >,_____,/^\
http://ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu/~dascobb/ }<_;> \| `
Sammie Foss
Jeffrey William Sandris (san...@shore.net) wrote:
: I spoke to Will earlier. He said the bomb was in a lesbian club.
: Five people were injured. One was critical, but her condition was
: upgraded. No motssers were injured, and I think Will said that no
: motssers that he knew of were in the club.
:
: I'm horrified. I'm praying for a speedy recovery for the women who
: were injured.
1 was a man.
You think you are horrified! I haven't been to the OtherSide in years,
but last week a friend of mine turned 21 and asked me if I would take her
on a tour of Atlnata dyke bars. Friday night between 9:30 and 10 we were
on our way to the OtherSide when my friend Maria paged me and asked if I
could come get her and take her to the Tower (another mostly women's bar).
We went and got her and when we got tot the Tower the bomb had just gone
off. The tension at the other bars we hopped that night was incredible.
When we got to Revoloutions there were fire trucks and cops everywhere.
Talk about scary. We thought we had just missed another one, but it turned
out to be a false fire alarm at the resturant next door.
I tell ya, I am used to watching my back and being careful, but having
your supposedly safe haven turn into a war zone is very unsettling.
Sammie
Sammie Foss
Michael Thomas (mi...@fasolt.mtcc.com) wrote:
: What I wonder about is how the Olympics figure
: into all of this. The pattern of gay club and
: abortion clinic scream fundamaniac on a mission
: from God, but why the Olympics? The only thing I
: can think of is a UN conspiracy angle.
I don't think it was the same person. I can believe that it may be the
same person who bombed the Planned Parenthood building, but not Olympic
park.
Sammie, who was on my way to The OtherSide when a friends paged me and
asked for a ride to a different bar. Thanks Elizabeth for friends with
broken down cars.
: --
Sammie Foss
Jeffrey William Sandris (san...@shore.net) wrote:
: I spoke to Will earlier. He said the bomb was in a lesbian club.
: Five people were injured. One was critical, but her condition was
: upgraded. No motssers were injured, and I think Will said that no
: motssers that he knew of were in the club.
:
: I'm horrified. I'm praying for a speedy recovery for the women who
: were injured.
You think you are horrified! I haven't been to The Otherside in years,
but last week a friend of mine turned 21 and wanted to hit all the dyke
bars in Atlanta. So she asked me if I would be her tour guide. Friday
night between 9:30 and 10 we were on our way to the Otherside when my
friend Maria paged me and asked if I would pick her up and take her to the
Tower. (another dyke bar) We went and picked her up and when we got to
the Tower, the bomb had just gone off. Talk about a reality check. The
tension was so thick in the other 4 places we went to you could have cut
it with a knife. Having a supposedly safe haven turn into a war zone is
very disconcerting.
4 women and 1 man were injured. The 1 woman who was in critical
condition has been upgraded to stable.
Sammie
Sammie Foss
Jeffrey William Sandris (san...@shore.net) wrote:
: I spoke to Will earlier. He said the bomb was in a lesbian club.
: Five people were injured. One was critical, but her condition was
: upgraded. No motssers were injured, and I think Will said that no
: motssers that he knew of were in the club.
:
: I'm horrified. I'm praying for a speedy recovery for the women who
: were injured.
One of the injured people was a man.
I haven't been to the OtherSide in years, but last week a friend of mine
turned 21 and wanted to go to as many dyke bars in Atlanta as possible.
We were on our waty to the Otherside when my friend Maria paged me and
asked if I could come get her and take her to the Tower. (another mostly
women's bar) When we got to the tower the bomb had just gone off.
Thank Elizabeth for friends with broken down cars.
Sammie
Greg Havican
In message <5eof8f$4...@news-central.tiac.net> - jt...@tiac.net (JTEM)
writes:
:>
:>A few minutes ago I was channel flipping and caught a bit of "The Justice
:>Files" on the Discovery network. The part I saw had to do with gay
:>bashings/attacks, all the ones they focused in on being in Texas from what
:>I could see (Houston in particular).
Houston in the 70's and 80's was pretty notorious in the state for having a
high number of attacks against gays and lesbians. The numbers have
declined significantly in more recent years, however, credit for that
should primarily go to the gay and lesbian community itself for taking
action when the HPD wouldn't. Fortunately, the HPD is much more
cooperative with the gay and lesbian community now than they ever have
been. Unfortunately, the amount of cooperation is still lacking in many
ways.
Greg Havican
In message <E642z...@mtcc.com> - pars...@mtcc.com (Monkey Boy) writes:
:>
:>John Dorrance (jhdo...@students.wisc.edu) wrote:
:>: Greg Havican wrote:
:>: > ded...@curly.cc.emory.edu (Daniel Chase Edmonds) writes:
:>
:>: > :>All one word: The Otherside
:>: > While I never really excelled in math, I believe that's *two* words Dan.
:>: Now, dear, don't be snotty.
:>
:>Truly. Being wrong is painful enough.
I don't know about you, but to me "The Otherside" is two words, not one.
Greg (Who believes in fighting for the proper recognition the word "the"
deserves.)
Daniel Chase Edmonds
Greg Havican (Greg.H...@io.com) wrote:
: In message <E642z...@mtcc.com> - pars...@mtcc.com (Monkey Boy) writes:
: :>
: :>John Dorrance (jhdo...@students.wisc.edu) wrote:
: :>: Greg Havican wrote:
: :>: > ded...@curly.cc.emory.edu (Daniel Chase Edmonds) writes:
: :>
: :>: > :>All one word: The Otherside
: :>: > While I never really excelled in math, I believe that's *two*
: :>: >words Dan.
: :>: Now, dear, don't be snotty.
: :>
: :>Truly. Being wrong is painful enough.
:
: I don't know about you, but to me "The Otherside" is two words, not one.
I think he meant painful enough for me. Of course, in the original
context, it was fairly clear, I think, that I was referring to 'other'
and 'side' being all one word, something I wouldn't even have mentioned
except I figured that people might want to know, and no one except an
Atlantan would have any reason to know. It was by no means meant to be
an 'attack' on the poster I was responding to, just a friendly correction.
The subsequent nitpicking was, I thought, a little out of place given the
subject of the thread we're dealing with.
P S Powledge
Kerry Ginn wrote:
>
> In article <v7ene82...@fasolt.mtcc.com>, Michael Thomas
> <mi...@fasolt.mtcc.com> wrote:
> > What I wonder about is how the Olympics figure
> >into all of this. The pattern of gay club and
> >abortion clinic scream fundamaniac on a mission
> >from God, but why the Olympics? The only thing I
> >can think of is a UN conspiracy angle.
>
> bomb makers last year (and reprinted -- I seem to recall -- in a Southern
> Poverty Law Center newsletter) included the following sorts of
> organizations:
> Planned Parenthood and abortion clinics
> NAACP and other black organizations
> Jewish organizations
> gay bars
> Federal law enforcement agencies and the IRS
>
> The link to the Olympics? I don't know if is any connection but there
> could be one. [....]
There was a story in the _Seattle Times_ a couple of weeks ago that
said the FBI was looking into the possibility of a link between
some ultra-rightwing bombings and bank holdups in Eastern Washington
and the Olympic bombing. One of the men arrested in the Washington
State bombings of Planned Parenthood and a Spokane newspaper was a
Christian Identity adherent who had been quoted as speaking against
his former employer, AT&T, because of its lesbigay diversity program
and because of its employment of women. The Olympic bombing took
place at an AT&T-sponsored event.
The _Seattle Times_ has a website, and I bet the article on the
investigation is still available there. The Southern Poverty Law
Center's newsletter is also chock-full of fascinating and scary
reading about Christian Identity, the Phineas Priests, and related
groups.
---
Polly Powledge
pol...@wrq.com
Clayton Colwell
Greg Havican (Greg.H...@io.com) wrote:
: Houston in the 70's and 80's was pretty notorious in the state for having a
: high number of attacks against gays and lesbians. The numbers have
: declined significantly in more recent years, however, credit for that
: should primarily go to the gay and lesbian community itself for taking
: action when the HPD wouldn't. Fortunately, the HPD is much more
: cooperative with the gay and lesbian community now than they ever have
: been.
And, in my experience, only came about in a big way after the Paul
Broussard murder. HPD decided to mount a small undercover operation,
where police officers would pretend to be gay couples on a stroll in
the harder-hit areas. I believe that they'd wanted to demonstrate
that no real gay-bashing took place. After a number of the under-
cover folks got attacked, though, the HPD had its eyes opened.
Does Atlanta have, or is it ever planning to have, a similar
undercover operation to try to cut down on violence against GLBOs?
--
Clay Colwell "Geek love is strong. Geek love rocks!"
(aka StealthSmurf) -- seen in a Doonesbury strip
er...@bga.com
If you send me unsolicited commercial e-mail, you'll get it back.
Daniel Chase Edmonds
Tim Wilson (t...@banquo.csp.ee.memphis.edu) wrote:
: >> Oh, and some of the guys here are chicks.
: >I thought we'd established that "you guys" is inclusive and polygendered
: ...to some...
: >here on soc.motss? Did I imagine that?
:
: Not if you include the words "to some".
The whole 'you guys' inclusive argument has always been one with weird
resonances for me. The person by whom I was most dressed down, once, for
using 'you guys' was an ultra-right wing fundie at a summer camp I worked
at after my Junior year in college. Marc something-or-another. Blond
hair, fair skinned, kind of short.... Naw. Anyway, he was also the one
who fielded the question 'what does semen taste like?' at our little
sex-ed panel. 'Based on it's chemical composition,' he claimed. I forget
what his answer was, but it was fairly on the money, especially since he
added that 'it probably varies from individual to individual, depending
on diet among other things.'
I wonder what Marc is doing now.
: > (btw,
: >isn't "chicks" somewhat offensive in some contexts?)
:
: Absolfuckinlutely. I'd say it's more offensive than "you guys"!
I think this may be one of those generation thingies. Among college
students at Emory, at least, 'chick' is widely used as the female
equivalent to 'guy.' In fact, among most 20-somethings I know it is,
including my no-longer 20-something roomie who refers to herself as a
'rocker-chick lawyer.'
Jeremy Mallory
P S Powledge (fake_addres...@defeating.auto.spammers) wrote:
: One of the men arrested in the Washington
: Christian Identity adherent who had been quoted as speaking against
: his former employer, AT&T, because of its lesbigay diversity program
: and because of its employment of women.
rights" and "favored minority": we're not just talking about GLB-bashing
here. The clearer common link is woman-bashing, particularly liberal-type
women. ("Liberal-type," in this case, from a right-wing point of view. I'm
perfectly cognizant that Republicans sometimes go to dyke bars and/or
support abortion.)
Jeremy
Sammie Foss
Sammie Foss (s...@arches.uga.edu) wrote:
[...]
Ok, it wouldn't post this morning, and now it got posted 3 times.
Sorry.
Sammie
Monkey Boy
Jeremy Mallory (jmal...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu) wrote:
: P S Powledge (fake_addres...@defeating.auto.spammers) wrote:
: : One of the men arrested in the Washington
: : State bombings of Planned Parenthood and a Spokane newspaper was a
: : Christian Identity adherent who had been quoted as speaking against
: : his former employer, AT&T, because of its lesbigay diversity program
: : and because of its employment of women.
:
: This struck me after I posted my last comment about "special
: rights" and "favored minority": we're not just talking about GLB-bashing
: here. The clearer common link is woman-bashing, particularly liberal-type
: women. ("Liberal-type," in this case, from a right-wing point of view. I'm
: perfectly cognizant that Republicans sometimes go to dyke bars and/or
: support abortion.)
The news this afternoon is that although there were some similarities
between the bombings at the clinic, the olympics, and the Otherside
the FBI does not believe that these bombings were done by the same individual
or group of individuals.
At least that's what the media is reporting.
-M*Boy
Melinda Shore
In article <5esrsd$qj6$4...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
Jeremy Mallory <jmal...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
> This struck me after I posted my last comment about "special
>rights" and "favored minority": we're not just talking about GLB-bashing
>here. The clearer common link is woman-bashing, particularly liberal-type
>women. ("Liberal-type," in this case, from a right-wing point of view. I'm
>perfectly cognizant that Republicans sometimes go to dyke bars and/or
>support abortion.)
I was rather surprised that it was a lesbian bar, myself -
I don't know that this is true, but it's been my impression
that gay men are the targets of hate violence more often
than lesbians.
Also, I'm not really comfortable with the
liberal/Republican thing (aside from the fact that not all
people who aren't liberal are Republican). Groups like the
Aryan Nation, Christian Identity, and so on don't fall that
easily under the broader "conservative" rubric, just as it
seems somehow off to describe Iranian fundamentalists as
"conservative." American conservatives as typified by the
Republican Party may be a deluded, piggy lot, but there are
nontrivial ideological differences between the right-wing
hate movement and mainstream American conservatism.
--
Melinda Shore - No Mountain Software - sh...@light.lightlink.com
If you send me harassing email, I'll probably post it
Jeremy Mallory
Melinda Shore (sh...@lightlink.com) wrote:
: I was rather surprised that it was a lesbian bar, myself -
: I don't know that this is true, but it's been my impression
: that gay men are the targets of hate violence more often
: than lesbians.
Precisely why I thought about it. (I'll admit I'm not often the
first to notice when something is biased against women.)
: Also, I'm not really comfortable with the
: liberal/Republican thing (aside from the fact that not all
: people who aren't liberal are Republican).
: [...]
: American conservatives as typified by the
: Republican Party may be a deluded, piggy lot, but there are
: nontrivial ideological differences between the right-wing
: hate movement and mainstream American conservatism.
That's why I included the "...from a right-wing point of view"
disclaimer. I agree that there is a huge difference, but the majority of
views I've read from the freaky right wing lump everyone they
hate--homosexuals, "baby killers," UN employees, etc.--under the same
rubric: "liberals."
Melinda Shore
In article <5et1qh$rbo$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
Jeremy Mallory <jmal...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
> That's why I included the "...from a right-wing point of view"
>disclaimer. I agree that there is a huge difference, but the majority of
>views I've read from the freaky right wing lump everyone they
>hate--homosexuals, "baby killers," UN employees, etc.--under the same
>rubric: "liberals."
Actually, it's conservative Republicans who do that.
Kenji Andrew Matsuoka
In article <5esr0v$h...@larry.cc.emory.edu>,
Daniel Chase Edmonds <ded...@larry.cc.emory.edu> wrote:
: : >isn't "chicks" somewhat offensive in some contexts?)
: :
: : Absolfuckinlutely. I'd say it's more offensive than "you guys"!
:
: I think this may be one of those generation thingies. Among college
: students at Emory, at least, 'chick' is widely used as the female
: equivalent to 'guy.' In fact, among most 20-somethings I know it is,
: including my no-longer 20-something roomie who refers to herself as a
: 'rocker-chick lawyer.'
The connotations of "chick" have been changing, you're right.
But, as your example shows, the male equivalent of this newer
use of "chick" is not "guy" but something like "dude", with
suggestions of hipness.
Some gay men use "homo" in a similar way.
--
Kenji Andrew Matsuoka
ke...@hana.physics.sunysb.edu
http://hana.physics.sunysb.edu/~kenji/
Tim Wilson
Quit ducking, you cowards. No one's going to get hurt with this
conversation (and the other one is going to take a while to clean up
after -- I owe Dan an e-mail reply and a followup or two), so relax.
In article <5esr0v$h...@larry.cc.emory.edu> ded...@larry.cc.emory.edu
(Daniel Chase Edmonds) writes:
>Tim Wilson (t...@banquo.csp.ee.memphis.edu) wrote:
>: <ke...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>: >Jeffrey William Sandris wrote:
>: >> Oh, and some of the guys here are chicks.
>: >I thought we'd established that "you guys" is inclusive and polygendered
>: ...to some...
>: >here on soc.motss? Did I imagine that?
>: Not if you include the words "to some".
>
>The whole 'you guys' inclusive argument has always been one with weird
>resonances for me.
I had never even heard the phrase until I was twelve or so, and my
mom's sister and her kids came to visit from California. I guess I'm
still parochially prejudiced against it, regardless of the gender
issues.
> The person by whom I was most dressed down, once, for
>using 'you guys' was an ultra-right wing fundie at a summer camp I worked
>at after my Junior year in college. Marc something-or-another. Blond
>hair, fair skinned, kind of short.... Naw.
I'm just really dubious of this default where the male term is the
inclusive one. And before someone starts posting some list of
inclusive female terms, please count all the supposed inclusive terms
and then determine the relative frequency of ones that start from the
female one. (Yes, I'm supposing English as the language at issue.)
> Anyway, he was also the one
>who fielded the question 'what does semen taste like?' at our little
>sex-ed panel. 'Based on it's chemical composition,' he claimed. I forget
>what his answer was, but it was fairly on the money, especially since he
>added that 'it probably varies from individual to individual, depending
>on diet among other things.'
>
Clorox and buttermilk. Asparagus.
>I wonder what Marc is doing now.
>: > (btw,
>: >isn't "chicks" somewhat offensive in some contexts?)
>: Absolfuckinlutely. I'd say it's more offensive than "you guys"!
>
>I think this may be one of those generation thingies. Among college
>students at Emory, at least, 'chick' is widely used as the female
>equivalent to 'guy.'
Male? Female?
> In fact, among most 20-somethings I know it is,
>including my no-longer 20-something roomie who refers to herself as a
>'rocker-chick lawyer.'
Groovy!
Seriously, if a particular woman wants to call herself a "chick" it's
really none of my business, but I'm not sure any of us here are in a
position to make that decision for her, regardless of our generational
cohort (Hi, Jess!).
Scott A. Safier
# san...@shore.net (Jeffrey William Sandris) writes:
# > I'm horrified. I'm praying for a speedy recovery for the women who
# > were injured.
#
# What I wonder about is how the Olympics figure
# into all of this. The pattern of gay club and
# abortion clinic scream fundamaniac on a mission
# from God, but why the Olympics? The only thing I
# can think of is a UN conspiracy angle.
I don't know about the Olympics, but the Army of God is claiming
responsibility for the abortion clinic and the lesbian bar bombings.
These people are scary. I dealt with them a few years ago when they
showed up at Pittsburgh's abortion clinics. They are just fanatics --
militia types who think the bible gives them a reason to attack any group
they disagree with.
What I can't help wonder whether the attack on the bar was anti-gay or
anti-woman. It isn't uncommon to hear the radical anti-abortion types to
claim that abortion clinic workers are all 'dykes'. In their deranged
minds, they might just think blowing up a bar frequented by lesbians is
another way to 'save babies'.
Scott, also glad Sammie is OK
--
Scott A. Safier http://www.lm.com/~corwin
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/scotts/ftp/wpaf2mc/
---
I lose my respect for the man who can make the mystery of sex the subject of a coarse jest, yet when you speak earnestly and seriously on the subject, is silent. --- Henry David Thoreau, 4/12/1852
Donald A. Baxter
>
>What I can't help wonder whether the attack on the bar was anti-gay or
>anti-woman. It isn't uncommon to hear the radical anti-abortion types to
>claim that abortion clinic workers are all 'dykes'. In their deranged
>minds, they might just think blowing up a bar frequented by lesbians is
>another way to 'save babies'.
Probably both, the connection with the Olympic bombing to all of this
could be in where that bombing took place--at the AT&T Pavillion and
soundstage. AT&T is a company that is being boycotted by some
"Christian" conservatives and radicals as being too pro-gay (domestic
partner benefits and on paper protection of gays in the workplace).
Being an old abortion rights activist myself, personally I associate
lesbians with the movement to protect legal abortion. A substantual
number of the people I served with on the Board of the Georgia
Abortion Rights Action League were lesbians. Don't know whether a
bomber would automatically make the same assumption.
So all of these bombing could be an attack on women or gays.
Personally I suspect that if any link is going to stick, it will be
between the clinic bombing (this was not a Planned Parenthood
facility, by the way, Atlanta Planned Parenthood does not operate a
Clinic in the Atlanta area) and the bombing of The Otherside. This
guy's got it out for women, I'll bet.
Donald Baxter
Atlanta
Tom Desmond
Daniel Chase Edmonds wrote:
> The whole 'you guys' inclusive argument has always been one with weird
> resonances for me. The person by whom I was most dressed down, once, for
> using 'you guys' was an ultra-right wing fundie at a summer camp I worked
> at after my Junior year in college. Marc something-or-another. Blond
> hair, fair skinned, kind of short.... Naw. Anyway, he was also the one
> who fielded the question 'what does semen taste like?' at our little
> sex-ed panel. 'Based on it's chemical composition,' he claimed. I forget
> what his answer was, but it was fairly on the money, especially since he
> added that 'it probably varies from individual to individual, depending
> on diet among other things.'
Fascinating subject for a rabid fundamentalist. Funny thing is that a
few years back, a friend of mine got confronted with this subject at
work, where two straight guys were arguing about whether different guys
semen taste different in the company cafeteria at his workplace (MCI, at
the time). He finally broke in and answered the question for them,
which earned him some very uncomfortable looks...
> I wonder what Marc is doing now.
Probably conducting regular taste tests. <G>
--
Tom Desmond
tdes...@sprynet.com (personal)
tdes...@ti.com (work)
Daniel Chase Edmonds
Evidentally, two groups have claimed responsibility for the
bombing-- one called 'Army of God,' one called 'Sons of the Confederacy.'
I've not heard too many details, however, so I'm not certain how much of
this is the inevitable rumor-mill type garbage. Being in Atlanta may, in
fact, be *counterproductive* when it comes to finding out the truth 'bout
this stuff.
Michael Thomas
[the great thing about soc.motss after the fact
speculation is that you don't get dubious pundits
saying that we shouldn't be too hasty, and then
launch into a fullscale speculative fantasy.]
db...@mindspring.com (Donald A. Baxter) writes:
> On Mon, 24 Feb 1997 21:09:04 -0500, cor...@telerama.lm.com (Scott A.
> Safier) wrote:
> >What I can't help wonder whether the attack on the bar was anti-gay or
> >anti-woman. It isn't uncommon to hear the radical anti-abortion types to
> >claim that abortion clinic workers are all 'dykes'. In their deranged
> >minds, they might just think blowing up a bar frequented by lesbians is
> >another way to 'save babies'.
>
> Probably both, the connection with the Olympic bombing to all of this
> could be in where that bombing took place--at the AT&T Pavillion and
> soundstage. AT&T is a company that is being boycotted by some
> "Christian" conservatives and radicals as being too pro-gay (domestic
> partner benefits and on paper protection of gays in the workplace).
Even if there is that sort of connection, it
still seems like a strange place to start. For my
part, I can't see any of these guys being that
discriminating in their thought process. They
usually seem a lot more hand to mouth, but that's
also personal prejudice speaking as well.
Maybe they were pissed off because they women's
wrestling event they got tickets to wasn't done
nude and in mud?
> Being an old abortion rights activist myself, personally I associate
> lesbians with the movement to protect legal abortion. A substantual
> number of the people I served with on the Board of the Georgia
> Abortion Rights Action League were lesbians. Don't know whether a
> bomber would automatically make the same assumption.
I suspect they probably would. Just listening to
Robertson's and Dornan's rhetoric (turning decent
women into lesbian witches, and lesbian
spearchuckers, respectively), I don't think that's
too much of a leap, even for the most block-headed
fundamaniac. The formulation of feminist==lesbian
is pretty standard fare anymore.
> So all of these bombing could be an attack on women or gays.
> Personally I suspect that if any link is going to stick, it will be
> between the clinic bombing (this was not a Planned Parenthood
> facility, by the way, Atlanta Planned Parenthood does not operate a
> Clinic in the Atlanta area) and the bombing of The Otherside. This
> guy's got it out for women, I'll bet.
Maybe, maybe not. Given the paucity of lesbian
bars in most cities compared to fag bars, it does
seem a little coincidental, but it's possible that
the bomber doesn't differentiate the two in his
mind.
Daniel Chase Edmonds
[speculation on why it was a lesbian bar that was bombed and not a gay
bar]
Evidentally the AoG rep who claimed resposibility for the attack
claimed that it was an attack against 'sodomites,' which would seem to
imply homosexuality in general was being indicted.
A friend of mine pointed out that, of the gaybars in the city,
the Otherside is perhaps the most convenient to a major highway. Quick
escape might, I suppose, have been a consideration. The bombed abortion
clinic was also close to a major highway.
Daniel Chase Edmonds
Marc Talusan (tal...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
: I don't know who this Marc person is but I'd be happy to dress you down
: even more than he did. And I want you to eat lots of Chinese food when I
: do it. You know what msg does to chemical composition, I assume.
Unwarrented assumption: please explain further.
: Marc, thinking, "DAMN! It's really difficult to keep the flirting confined
: to the flirt thread."
Well, duh!
Steve Kalbach
Melinda Shore <sh...@lightlink.com> wrote in article
<5esvro$8...@light.lightlink.com>...
: In article <5esrsd$qj6$4...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
: Jeremy Mallory <jmal...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
: > This struck me after I posted my last comment about "special
: >rights" and "favored minority": we're not just talking about GLB-bashing
: >here. The clearer common link is woman-bashing, particularly
liberal-type
: >women. ("Liberal-type," in this case, from a right-wing point of view.
I'm
: >perfectly cognizant that Republicans sometimes go to dyke bars and/or
: >support abortion.)
:
: I was rather surprised that it was a lesbian bar, myself -
: I don't know that this is true, but it's been my impression
: that gay men are the targets of hate violence more often
: than lesbians.
:
: Also, I'm not really comfortable with the
: liberal/Republican thing (aside from the fact that not all
: people who aren't liberal are Republican). Groups like the
: Aryan Nation, Christian Identity, and so on don't fall that
: easily under the broader "conservative" rubric, just as it
: seems somehow off to describe Iranian fundamentalists as
: "conservative." American conservatives as typified by the
: Republican Party may be a deluded, piggy lot, but there are
: nontrivial ideological differences between the right-wing
: hate movement and mainstream American conservatism.
: --
: Melinda Shore - No Mountain Software - sh...@light.lightlink.com
: If you send me harassing email, I'll probably post it
Very well put!!!
:
JTEM
Greg Havican <Greg.H...@io.com> wrote:
>jt...@tiac.net (JTEM)
>:>bashings/attacks, all the ones they focused in on being in Texas from
>:>what I could see (Houston in particular).
>
>Houston in the 70's and 80's was pretty notorious in the state for having
>a high number of attacks against gays and lesbians. The numbers have
>declined significantly in more recent years, however, credit for that
>should primarily go to the gay and lesbian community itself for taking
>action when the HPD wouldn't.
I didn't see the whole segment, and couldn't tell you why they chose to
focus in on Houston, but it wasn't presented as a "Texas" or "Houston"
problem. Well, at least not in the parts that I managed to see.
John
Marc Talusan
Daniel Chase Edmonds (ded...@larry.cc.emory.edu) wrote:
: The person by whom I was most dressed down, once, for
: using 'you guys' was an ultra-right wing fundie at a summer camp I worked
: at after my Junior year in college. Marc something-or-another.
I don't know who this Marc person is but I'd be happy to dress you down
even more than he did. And I want you to eat lots of Chinese food when I
do it. You know what msg does to chemical composition, I assume.
Marc, thinking, "DAMN! It's really difficult to keep the flirting confined
to the flirt thread."
--
< >
Marc Talusan |Jack be nimble, Jack be quick,
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~talusan|Jack jump over the candle stick.
tal...@fas.harvard.edu |Silly Jack, he should jump higher,
|Goodness gracious, great balls of fire!
--- from Caryl Churchill's _Cloud 9_
Kenji Andrew Matsuoka
In article <5etkdj$849$8...@news.fas.harvard.edu>,
Marc Talusan <tal...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote to DCE:
: I don't know who this Marc person is but I'd be happy to dress you down
: even more than he did. And I want you to eat lots of Chinese food when I
: do it. You know what msg does to chemical composition, I assume.
Lots of MSG just makes me extremely queasy in a way that's not quite
nausea, not quite pain, just very unhappy in the tummy -- as I learned
from two motss dim sums at China Pearl.
(The food tasted *great* at the time, it was only after an hour or so
that I regretted wolfing down all those dumplings.)
Marc Talusan
Tim Wilson (t...@banquo.csp.ee.memphis.edu) wrote:
: Groovy!
Tim reveals his age. I just learned a new way to throw shade today,
more sophisticated than "talk to the hand." It comes with appropriate
gestures, which I will attempt to approximate in this medium. Imagine the
slashes as your thumb and forefinger:
\/\/
Whatever...
/\/\
Moron...
[here it becomes complicated; put your palms together and make a twisting
gesture as if you're immitating a fish swimming]
Walk down the path to...
[sweeping the thumb and forefinger from left to right] |_
lameland and/or loserville.
Sometimes I wish I were a Baldwin, but I don't have enough body hair. I
guess I'm more of a Betty.
Marc
Melinda Shore
>students at Emory, at least, 'chick' is widely used as the female
>'rocker-chick lawyer.'
I tend to use the word "guys" myself, although I haven't
really decided that it's flat-out okay. I do have problems
with the word "chick," even though one of the nicest
professional compliments I've received contained it
and even though it does seem to have some currency
among the younger folk (see Coupland's "Microserfs," for
example).
Greg Havican
In message <33125F...@sprynet.com> - Tom Desmond <tdes...@sprynet.com>
writes:
:>
:>Funny thing is that a
:>work, where two straight guys were arguing about whether different guys
:>semen taste different in the company cafeteria at his workplace
They serve semen in the company cafeteria? I'll have to pass that on to
the company that manages ours.
Greg
Greg Havican || Just one of the "neurotic talking heads" of soc.motss.
-------------||-------------------------------------------------------
|| <http://www.io.com/~topman4u>
XAOS
The Olympic bombing was carried out in a way very different
from the subsequent clinic and bar bombings. I don't believe
that any connection exists (between the Olympics and the
latter two); different explosives, different wiring, different
timers, etc.
I've heard a lot of people making tenuous connections about
the Olympics moving a venue out of Cobb County because of
their anti-gay resolution or AT&T's gay-positive employment
policies (the Olympic bombing took plce at an AT&T pavilion).
C'mon, not everything's about us, people.
- Steve
--
"Submit. Obey. Conform. Marry and reproduce."
- Snog, untitled
XAOS
Kenji Andrew Matsuoka wrote:
> The connotations of "chick" have been changing, you're right.
> But, as your example shows, the male equivalent of this newer
> use of "chick" is not "guy" but something like "dude", with
> suggestions of hipness.
>
> Some gay men use "homo" in a similar way.
Ewww...that sounds sorta lame...my friends and I freely toss
around the terms turd burglar and rump ranger, but homo sounds
so...juvenile
- Steve, a veritable avatar of irony
Jess Anderson
In article <5eulb4$f...@light.lightlink.com>,
Melinda Shore <sh...@lightlink.com> wrote:
>In article <5esr0v$h...@larry.cc.emory.edu>,
>Daniel Chase Edmonds <ded...@larry.cc.emory.edu> wrote:
>>Among college students at Emory, at least, 'chick' is
>>widely used as the female equivalent to 'guy.' In fact,
>>among most 20-somethings I know it is, including my
>>no-longer 20-something roomie who refers to herself as a
>>'rocker-chick lawyer.'
>I tend to use the word "guys" myself, although I haven't
>really decided that it's flat-out okay. I do have problems
>with the word "chick," even though one of the nicest
>professional compliments I've received contained it [...]
I'm comfortable with certain uses of "guys" to refer to
women, if I'm with women who I know use the word that way.
For example, with two lesbian friends in Ann Arbor: "Are you
guys going to <an event>?" We say "girlfriend!" to each
other too.
"Chick" is right out, as far as I'm concerned. I kind of
cringe when women here use it, but it's their call, not
mine.
In a related vein, soon after Ilona started her "that bitch"
persona, I noticed several guys (men) here using the word in
ways at least I found pretty questionable. I speculated
that they must have figured she sanctioned or sanitized the
word in some way, so it was OK for them to use it too.
Well, I suppose all of this is highly situational. The
language is hardly static, which I'm sure is a *good* thing,
generally.
--
Jess's homepage URL is http://www-jsbach.macc.wisc.edu/~anderson/
Copyright 1997 Jess Anderson. *All rights reserved.* Copying in
whole or in part prohibited except for direct response on Usenet.
Permission to archive for any reason explicitly refused herewith.
--
<> The right to be heard does not automatically include the
<> right to be taken seriously.
<> -- Hubert H. Humphrey
--
Opinions expressed herein have no connection with the UW-Madison.
Jess Anderson * Send no commercial email * ande...@doit.wisc.edu
Jeremy Mallory
Melinda Shore (sh...@lightlink.com) wrote:
: Jeremy Mallory <jmal...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
: > That's why I included the "...from a right-wing point of view"
: >disclaimer. I agree that there is a huge difference, but the majority of
: >views I've read from the freaky right wing lump everyone they
: >hate--homosexuals, "baby killers," UN employees, etc.--under the same
: >rubric: "liberals."
: Actually, it's conservative Republicans who do that.
I think there are some hairs that need to be split. If by
conservative Republican you mean Jesse Helms, then I don't think there's
much of a difference: he's pretty much a genteel militia member in a tight
three-piece suit.
If by conservative Republican you mean, say, Bush, Reagan, Gramm,
Dole, Thurmond, or Gingrich, I think there's plenty of distinction.
As for what they term the Evil Ones, that may just be different
sets of data. I had to do some research into far, far right-wing Christian
shtuff--R.J. Rushdoony, who advocates stoning for homosexuality, adultery,
and kids who talk back--and they do label the Evil Ones "liberal." (Vide
also Pat Robertson's famous diatribe about women becoming witches, leaving
their husbands, and killing their children once the ERA is signed.)
On the other hand, there's also plenty of demonization of
"liberals" going on in the more mainstream Republican camp.
Tim Wilson
In article <5etqc6$9e4$4...@news.fas.harvard.edu> tal...@fas.harvard.edu
(Marc Talusan) writes:
>Sometimes I wish I were a Baldwin, but I don't have enough body hair. I
>guess I'm more of a Betty.
Better a Yamaha or a Steinway than a Baldwin.
Robert S. Coren
In article <5etnc0$3...@curly.cc.emory.edu>,
According to this morning's Boston _Globe_ (as filtered through my
memory -- I don't have a copy at hand), a letter was received (I don't
know by whom) claiming responsibility on behalf of the "Army of God", but
authorities were uncertain whether it was legitimate or the work of a
"crank". Apparently it went on to declare that the war would continue
against a laundry list of target groups, of which "homosexuals" was
one.
I fear for my friends in Atlanta.
My own take, based on limited information, is that the abortion clinic
and Otherside bombings are likely to be related, but a connection with
the Olympic Park bombing is a bit of a stretch; it was at least 6
months earlier, and seems to have targeted a different kind of
population altogether.
--
-------Robert Coren (co...@spdcc.com)-------------------------
"I never think naked -- stop dysfunctional obsessive art"
--WordsCubed
Ann Burlingham
In article <E663I...@spdcc.com>, Robert S. Coren <co...@spdcc.com> wrote:
>According to this morning's Boston _Globe_ (as filtered through my
>memory -- I don't have a copy at hand), a letter was received (I don't
>know by whom)
According to last night's news, by Reuters.
>claiming responsibility on behalf of the "Army of God"
--
Michael Thomas
sh...@lightlink.com (Melinda Shore) writes:
> In article <5esr0v$h...@larry.cc.emory.edu>,
> Daniel Chase Edmonds <ded...@larry.cc.emory.edu> wrote:
> >equivalent to 'guy.' In fact, among most 20-somethings I know it is,
> >including my no-longer 20-something roomie who refers to herself as a
> >'rocker-chick lawyer.'
>
> I tend to use the word "guys" myself, although I haven't
> really decided that it's flat-out okay. I do have problems
> with the word "chick," even though one of the nicest
> professional compliments I've received contained it
> among the younger folk (see Coupland's "Microserfs," for
> example).
I think this is part of the resurgent retro 60's
bizness. I definitely have a tendency to use
groovy more these days, and chick seems like the
right term for a saucy woman (ie don't take shit
from anybody). A lot of retro stuff is filtered
through rose colored glasses, so where the actual
60's and 70's use of "chick" wasn't much different
to "my bitch" as used by str8 guys, I think that
the recent usage is more in line with an idealized
vision of what it had actually meant way back
when.
Good or bad thing? Language reclamation issues
are rarely simple, and have a tendency to be too
situational to make broad pronouncements about.
What I *do* think would be a no-brainer is
Charlie's idea of having a gay club here in the
city that is decked out in way-groovy 60's drag
complete with busty go-go dancers ala Russ Meyers'
_Beyond the Valley of the Dolls_. That would be
neat.
Marc Talusan
Daniel Chase Edmonds (ded...@curly.cc.emory.edu) wrote:
: Marc Talusan (tal...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
: : I don't know who this Marc person is but I'd be happy to dress you down
: : even more than he did. And I want you to eat lots of Chinese food when I
: : do it. You know what msg does to chemical composition, I assume.
: Unwarrented assumption: please explain further.
Oh, it makes your semen taste nice and salty.
C.L. Lassiter
Marc Talusan (tal...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
: Tim Wilson (t...@banquo.csp.ee.memphis.edu) wrote:
: : Groovy!
: Tim reveals his age. I just learned a new way to throw shade today,
: more sophisticated than "talk to the hand." It comes with appropriate
: gestures, which I will attempt to approximate in this medium. Imagine the
: slashes as your thumb and forefinger:
: \/\/
: Whatever...
Are these standard ASL? I recognize "whatever," from one of my friends
who's a professional signer.
[]
: Sometimes I wish I were a Baldwin, but I don't have enough body hair. I
: guess I'm more of a Betty.
________________________________________________________________________
c.l. lassiter
SEA...@UNC.EDU
Dana Scully: "Your contact, while interesting in the context of science
fiction, was, at least in my memory, recounting a poorly
veiled synopsis of an episode of _Rocky and Bulwinkle_."
Jess Anderson
In article <w4rn2ss...@banquo.csp.ee.memphis.edu>,
Tim Wilson <t-wi...@memphis.edu> wrote:
>In article <5etqc6$9e4$4...@news.fas.harvard.edu> tal...@fas.harvard.edu
>(Marc Talusan) writes:
>>Sometimes I wish I were a Baldwin, but I don't have enough body hair. I
>>guess I'm more of a Betty.
>Better a Yamaha or a Steinway than a Baldwin.
You could put a Baldwin in really good drag and call it
Betty Bechstein, maybe...
--
Jess's homepage URL is http://www-jsbach.macc.wisc.edu/~anderson/
Copyright 1997 Jess Anderson. *All rights reserved.* Copying in
whole or in part prohibited except for direct response on Usenet.
Permission to archive for any reason explicitly refused herewith.
--
<> Ah, said the president [Reagan] with great lucidity, "It's
<> true we shipped weapons to Iran, but they were *defensive*
<> weapons." If the man had a brain, he'd play with it.
<> -- Molly Ivins
Jeremy Mallory
Marc Talusan (tal...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
: Tim reveals his age. I just learned a new way to throw shade today,
Gosh. Must've missed "Cluless" until it was out on tape?
C.L. Lassiter (sea...@email.unc.edu) wrote:
: Are these standard ASL? I recognize "whatever," from one of my friends
: who's a professional signer.
About as standard ASL as the motss.wave.
Jeremy, or, for that matter, the Wave itself
XAOS
>
> : : Groovy!
>
> : Tim reveals his age. I just learned a new way to throw shade today,
> : gestures, which I will attempt to approximate in this medium. Imagine the
> : slashes as your thumb and forefinger:
>
> : \/\/
> : Whatever...
No...this is a trendy junior high way to dismiss someone. It's a
couple of years old (ie, "on the outs"). ASL for whatever is the
index finger of one hand done in a sweeping point down the spread
fingers of the other hand followed by another gesture that
eludes me at the moment.
- Steve, who knows more than he probably should about teeny-bopper
trends
Mary Shafer
In article <3310A7...@worldnet.att.net>,
Ken Rudolph <ke...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Jeffrey William Sandris wrote:
>> Oh, and some of the guys here are chicks.
>I thought we'd established that "you guys" is inclusive and polygendered
>here on soc.motss? Did I imagine that? Paging the usage police! (btw,
>isn't "chicks" somewhat offensive in some contexts?)
As a member of the "chick" group, I'd much prefer to be one of the
guys. Other than references to young fowl, I've never found a usage
of "chick" that wasn't offensive. Maybe it's because I'm more "mother
hen" aged and shaped.
As to whether such a discussion is appropriate in view of the terrible
event that has precipitated this discussion, I think it is.
Generalizing about groups of people and sticking an inaccurate or
offensive name on them is part and parcel of the behavior that leads
some people to dehumanize such groups to the point that violence
against them is morally justified. The recent assasination of the
Prime Minister of Israel is such an event; the physical attack
followed vilification and character assasination and the assasin
trotted out that vilification as justification for his action.
--
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR sha...@ursa-major.spdcc.com
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end....
Marc Talusan
: : more sophisticated than "talk to the hand." [...]
: Gosh. Must've missed "Cluless" until it was out on tape?
As if. I've been using \/\/, /\/\ and |_ for years, having immigrated to
LA from the Philippines. I just never used the particular combination
of gestures I described.
Marc Talusan
XAOS (xa...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: Kenji Andrew Matsuoka wrote:
: > The connotations of "chick" have been changing, you're right.
: > But, as your example shows, the male equivalent of this newer
: > use of "chick" is not "guy" but something like "dude", with
: > suggestions of hipness.
: >
: > Some gay men use "homo" in a similar way.
: Ewww...that sounds sorta lame...my friends and I freely toss
: around the terms turd burglar and rump ranger, but homo sounds
: so...juvenile
How about shit stabber and pillow biter?
I learned the latter term in London over the summer late at night as I
was leaving CXR something-orthe-other when a drunk guy (presumably str8)
shouted as I passed (in my jean shorts): "You have fucking amazing legs.
You must be a pillow biter!"
Tom
Hi folks:
(Can't wait for the comments on that one.)
Daniel Chase Edmonds wrote:
>
> The whole 'you guys' inclusive argument has always been one with weird
> resonances for me. The person by whom I was most dressed down, once, for
> using 'you guys' was an ultra-right wing fundie at a summer camp I worked
> at after my Junior year in college. Marc something-or-another. Blond
> hair, fair skinned, kind of short.... Naw. Anyway, he was also the one
> who fielded the question 'what does semen taste like?' at our little
> sex-ed panel. 'Based on it's chemical composition,' he claimed. I forget
> what his answer was, but it was fairly on the money, especially since he
> added that 'it probably varies from individual to individual, depending
> on diet among other things.'
>
> I wonder what Marc is doing now.
>
> : > (btw,
> : >isn't "chicks" somewhat offensive in some contexts?)
> :
> : Absolfuckinlutely. I'd say it's more offensive than "you guys"!
>
> I think this may be one of those generation thingies. Among college
> students at Emory, at least, 'chick' is widely used as the female
> equivalent to 'guy.' In fact, among most 20-somethings I know it is,
> including my no-longer 20-something roomie who refers to herself as a
> 'rocker-chick lawyer.'
It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am probably the
elder stateman amongst you younger folk I guess you'll just have to
interpret that phrase however you please. No offense to you ladies out
there, but I try to keep my attention focused on MEN.
T.
T.
Melinda Shore wrote:
> I tend to use the word "guys" myself, although I haven't
> really decided that it's flat-out okay. I do have problems
> with the word "chick," even though one of the nicest
> professional compliments I've received contained it
> and even though it does seem to have some currency
> among the younger folk (see Coupland's "Microserfs," for
> example).
> Melinda Shore - No Mountain Software - sh...@light.lightlink.com
> If you send me harassing email, I'll probably post it
Thank you mam. I'd never call a lady a "chick".
T.
Nick Nussbaum
Tom wrote:
> It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am probably the
> elder stateman amongst you younger folk I guess you'll just have to
> interpret that phrase however you please. No offense to you ladies out
> there, but I try to keep my attention focused on MEN.
How diplomatic of you.
FJ!!
In article <5evfn8$3qv$1...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
Jeremy Mallory <jmal...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>Marc Talusan (tal...@fas.harvard.edu) wrote:
>: Tim reveals his age. I just learned a new way to throw shade today,
>: more sophisticated than "talk to the hand." [...]
>
> Gosh. Must've missed "Cluless" until it was out on tape?
"Missed"? Anyway, for a throwaway concept that the "Whatever" sign
tries to express, I find it remarkably convoluted, as it involves
two hands - try that while driving, writing, cooking or all other kinds
of activities where you need a good quick brush-off. I always wonder why
the choice wasn't made to just raise the hand, in a fist, back of hand
facing person speaking to, and with the first three fingers extended.
Same expression, quicker, easier and with happy connotations to giving the
finger.
FJ!!
"He could have told me he couldn't communicate!" - Jeffrey Sandris
Jess Anderson
In article <33138B...@bellsouth.net>,
Tom <bentl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am
>probably the elder stateman amongst you younger folk
Statesman would hardly be the word, would it? I don't use
my age as an excuse to be a jackass. Why should you?
>I guess you'll just have to interpret that phrase however
>you please.
Meaning: you take no responsibility, especially not social
responsibility, for your words or deeds. Fine morality that
is! How old are you again?
>No offense to you ladies out there, but I try to keep my
>attention focused on MEN.
Well, friend, it's about time you learned that your focus is
not a primary concern in a group of men and women who are
lesbian, gay, straight, or bisexual. This is mixed space,
and unless you want to be mercilessly crisped, you should
probably take others into account. "No offense to you
ladies" does not meet the bill.
--
Jess's homepage URL is http://www-jsbach.macc.wisc.edu/~anderson/
Copyright 1997 Jess Anderson. *All rights reserved.* Copying in
whole or in part prohibited except for direct response on Usenet.
Permission to archive for any reason explicitly refused herewith.
--
<> No member of our generation who wasn't a Communist or a
<> dropout in the thirties is worth a damn.
<> -- Lyndon B. Johnson
Charlie Fulton
Tom (bentl...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
: It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am probably the
: elder stateman amongst you younger folk I guess you'll just have to
: interpret that phrase however you please.
We don't like old people here. Get the fuck out.
: No offense to you ladies out
: there, but I try to keep my attention focused on MEN.
Or get RAPED.
--
Charlie Fulton---foultone@mtcc.com---http://www.mtcc.com/~foultone/
"Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun."
Montgomery Burns
Jeremy Mallory
FJ!! (f...@spdcc.com) wrote:
: I always wonder why
: the choice wasn't made to just raise the hand, in a fist, back of hand
: facing person speaking to, and with the first three fingers extended.
Well, that's 'W' in ASL fingerspell, so it's not entirely
inaccurate.
'Whatever,' at least in the dialect of ASL as I learned it, isn't
quite as complex as Steve describes (which sounds like "what" + "ever,"
which is sort of a ponderous way to sign it). Hold the hands out, palms
facing yourself, fingers pointing toward each other. Brush fingertips
across each other a couple of times in each direction. It reminds me of
what I saw my French teacher do whenever she said "c,a m'est e'gal."
Jeremy, who prefers the "\/\/hatever, /\/\ary, Queen (three
fingers to forehead) of the |_osers" vernacular
Sim Aberson
In article <v7ene4g...@fasolt.mtcc.com>,
Michael Thomas <mi...@fasolt.mtcc.com> wrote:
>What I *do* think would be a no-brainer is
>Charlie's idea of having a gay club here in the
>city that is decked out in way-groovy 60's drag
>complete with busty go-go dancers ala Russ Meyers'
>_Beyond the Valley of the Dolls_. That would be
>neat.
It's been done, at least here. Lasted a few months, but fun while it lasted.
Sim, who hasn't been to a bar in ages.
--
Sim Aberson Dania, FL Evaporational cooling!
Melinda Shore
In article <33138B...@bellsouth.net>,
Tom <bentl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am probably the
>elder stateman amongst you younger folk I guess you'll just have to
>there, but I try to keep my attention focused on MEN.
So, like, do you trample women in crowds?
Sammie Foss
T. (bentl...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
: Melinda Shore wrote:
:
: > I tend to use the word "guys" myself, although I haven't
: > really decided that it's flat-out okay. I do have problems
: > with the word "chick," even though one of the nicest
: > professional compliments I've received contained it
: > and even though it does seem to have some currency
: > among the younger folk (see Coupland's "Microserfs," for
: > example).
I don't consider myself 'younger folk', but I use it. Come to think of
it, I use it to describe younger women more often than older ones, but
usually as a generic along the lines of 'dude'. Hmmm, maybe I need to
think about this.
: Thank you mam. I'd never call a lady a "chick".
I think I would rather be called a chick, than a lady.
Sammie
Brian Kane
T. (bentl...@bellsouth.net):
:Melinda Shore:
:>I do have problems with the word "chick," even though
:>[...] even though it does seem to have some currency
:>among the younger folk
:Thank you mam. I'd never call a lady a "chick".
OK, who is trolling *this* time?
--
Brian Kane~~ka...@buast7.bu.edu~~http://buast7.bu.edu/~kane/
"What are we doing in this god-forsaken town [Boston]? All
our friends are in New York!" --- The Magnetic Fields
Jeremy Mallory
Tom (bentl...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
: It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am probably the
: elder stateman amongst you younger folk I guess you'll just have to
Yezza. Wouldn' wanna be questionin' my eldahs.
: No offense to you ladies out
: there, but I try to keep my attention focused on MEN.
Good thing too, so all the men out there can focus on a gem like
*you*! Wouldn't want you to be *distracted* by all them silly fish-folk,
would we? I mean, they just get in the *way* when we *cruise*!
Jeremy, get the fuck outta my way, bitch, I'm looking at *him*!
beth (s)linker
In article <33138B...@bellsouth.net> Tom wrote:
: It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am probably the
: elder stateman amongst you younger folk I guess you'll just have to
: interpret that phrase however you please. No offense to you ladies out
: there, but I try to keep my attention focused on MEN.
perfectly understandable. no offense, but i try to keep my attention
focused on intelligent people, so i'll just skip over the rest of
your posts.
-beth
--
Beth Linker
bsli...@unix.amherst.edu
Tim Wilson
In article <33138C...@bellsouth.net> "T."
<bentl...@bellsouth.net> writes:
>Melinda Shore wrote:
>> [...]
>> I tend to use the word "guys" myself, although I haven't
>> really decided that it's flat-out okay. I do have problems
>> with the word "chick," even though one of the nicest
>> professional compliments I've received contained it
>> and even though it does seem to have some currency
>> among the younger folk (see Coupland's "Microserfs," for
>> example).
>
>Thank you mam. I'd never call a lady a "chick".
Whole lotta loppin' goin' on.
Tim Wilson
In article <33138B...@bellsouth.net> Tom
<bentl...@bellsouth.net> writes:
>It seems I posted that "you guys" phrase and since I am probably the
>elder stateman amongst you younger folk I guess you'll just have to
>interpret that phrase however you please. No offense to you ladies out
>there, but I try to keep my attention focused on MEN.
I guess the `s' got lopped off already.
Lars Eighner
In our last episode <5f1ki9$h...@light.lightlink.com>,
the lovely and talented sh...@lightlink.com (Melinda Shore)
broadcast on soc.motss:
|So, like, do you trample women in crowds?
Only if they get between me and the men.
--
Lars Eighner= http://www.io.com/~eighner == http://www.crl.com/~eighner =
12550 Vista View #302 eig...@crl.com eig...@io.com ==
San Antonio TX 78231 alt.books.lars-eighner "At better ISPs everywhere"=
(210)979-7124 ========"Yes, Lizbeth is fine."============================
T.
Jess Anderson wrote:
> Well, friend, it's about time you learned that your focus is
> not a primary concern in a group of men and women who are
> lesbian, gay, straight, or bisexual.
Ah, you found my point. The salient issue as they say.
T.
T.
Melinda Shore wrote:
> So, like, do you trample women in crowds?
> Melinda Shore - No Mountain Software - sh...@light.lightlink.com
> If you send me harassing email, I'll probably post it
And why would I do that?
T.
T.
Charlie Fulton wrote:
>
> We don't like old people here. Get the fuck out.
>
Is your face red by chance?
>
> Or get RAPED.
>
They say that folks always tell others to do what they really want to do
themselves.
T.
T.
beth (s)linker wrote:
>
> perfectly understandable. no offense, but i try to keep my attention
> focused on intelligent people, so i'll just skip over the rest of
> your posts.
>
> -beth
>
> --
> Beth Linker
> bsli...@unix.amherst.edu
I would really think this one through.
T.
T.
Jeremy Mallory wrote:
>
Foul.
T.
T.
Lars Eighner wrote:
>
> In our last episode <5f1ki9$h...@light.lightlink.com>,
> the lovely and talented sh...@lightlink.com (Melinda Shore)
> broadcast on soc.motss:
>
>
AMEN!!!!!
Finally someone who sees the light.
T.
T.
> : > really decided that it's flat-out okay. I do have problems
> : > with the word "chick," even though one of the nicest
> : > professional compliments I've received contained it
> : > and even though it does seem to have some currency
> : > among the younger folk (see Coupland's "Microserfs," for
> : > example).
>
> it, I use it to describe younger women more often than older ones, but
> usually as a generic along the lines of 'dude'. Hmmm, maybe I need to
> think about this.
>
> : Thank you mam. I'd never call a lady a "chick".
>
> I think I would rather be called a chick, than a lady.
>
> Sammie
I suppose from a certain perspective that might be preferable.
T.
Douglas Wyman
s...@arches.uga.edu (Sammie Foss) spoke to the community saying:
>
>I think I would rather be called a chick, than a lady.
>
while in Las Vegas. (about the use of lady) Words have such
different connotations from one place to the next.
Doug (always willing to learn)
====================================================================
Douglas J. Wyman <dwy...@halcyon.com> HTTP://www.halcyon.com/dwyman/
====================================================================
John Dorrance
Sammie Foss wrote:
> I think I would rather be called a chick, than a lady.
For me this whole terminology thing depends somewhat on who I'm with
and who I'm referring to. I'll even use the term 'bitch' from time
to time, but usually only in reference to my friend Keri, who in fact
is a bitch, and quite a wonderful one at that, but then I usually only
say that to her face or when I'm discussing stuff like this with people.
Otherwise, I like 'gal' a lot and generally use it when talking with
friends, who are generally young enough and know me well enough not to
get offended by it. I probably use 'woman' more frequently, but by
gosh, it gets boring to use the same rather clinical and formal word
for an immense group of people all the time.
John
Jess Anderson
In article <331513...@bellsouth.net>, T.
<bentl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
There is a certain obliviousness that seems to go with
Bentley drivers. You're manifesting it.
--
Jess's homepage URL is http://www-jsbach.macc.wisc.edu/~anderson/
Copyright 1997 Jess Anderson. *All rights reserved.* Copying in
whole or in part prohibited except for direct response on Usenet.
Permission to archive for any reason explicitly refused herewith.
--
<> When you go to the mind reader, do you get half price?
<> -- David Letterman
Jess Anderson
In article <331551...@students.wisc.edu>,
John Dorrance <jhdo...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
>Sammie Foss wrote:
>>I think I would rather be called a chick, than a lady.
>For me this whole terminology thing depends [...] I
>probably use 'woman' more frequently, but by gosh, it gets
>boring to use the same rather clinical and formal word for
>an immense group of people all the time.
I've never really managed to comprehend why it doesn't
suffice to interact with the people in question (for it
applies to other group names too), ask them (or abstract it
from the overall interaction) what they like, and simply
*do* that. It's not exactly a big labor or anything.
--
Jess's homepage URL is http://www-jsbach.macc.wisc.edu/~anderson/
Copyright 1997 Jess Anderson. *All rights reserved.* Copying in
whole or in part prohibited except for direct response on Usenet.
Permission to archive for any reason explicitly refused herewith.
--
<> I am no more humble than my talents require.
<> -- Oscar Levant
Jess Anderson
In article <331514...@bellsouth.net>, T.
<bentl...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Lars Eighner wrote:
>>Melinda Shore)
>>>So, like, do you trample women in crowds?
>>Only if they get between me and the men.
>AMEN!!!!!
Ah, men and women.
>Finally someone who sees the light.
He's joking, you're serious; there's a difference. Get a
clue, buddy.
--
Jess's homepage URL is http://www-jsbach.macc.wisc.edu/~anderson/
Copyright 1997 Jess Anderson. *All rights reserved.* Copying in
whole or in part prohibited except for direct response on Usenet.
Permission to archive for any reason explicitly refused herewith.
--
<> When you go to the mind reader, do you get half price?
<> -- David Letterman
Seems designed for the occasion, no?
John Dorrance
FJ!! wrote:
> "Missed"? Anyway, for a throwaway concept that the "Whatever" sign
> tries to express, I find it remarkably convoluted, as it involves
> two hands - try that while driving, writing, cooking or all other kinds
> of activities where you need a good quick brush-off. I always wonder why
> the choice wasn't made to just raise the hand, in a fist, back of hand
> facing person speaking to, and with the first three fingers extended.
It probably stems from the hands-facing-the-viewer-and-pushing-out gesture
that means, like, get away from *me*, or, like, I don't want to have anything
to do with it.
John
XAOS
T. wrote:
>
> Charlie Fulton wrote:
> > Or get RAPED.
> >
>
> They say that folks always tell others to do what they really want to > do themselves.
"They" do? I've heard a lot of silly homilies attributed to "Them,"
but this is a new one to me...
- Steve, who finds soc.motss to be an ever-enlightening experience
--
"Perhaps not eating people is the first step toward making friends"
- Omnipotus (Devourer of Worlds), "The Tick"
XAOS
T. wrote:
>
> Melinda Shore wrote:
>
> > So, like, do you trample women in crowds?
> > Melinda Shore - No Mountain Software > > -sh...@light.lightlink.com
> > If you send me harassing email, I'll probably post it
>
> And why would I do that?
It's what is known on USENET as a sig...I'm sure bellsouth.net
gave you a book that includes mention of netiquette with your
account. If you use it, your soc.motss experience will probably
be far more enjoyable and rewarding
- Steve, an avatar of Facetius, ancient Roman god of sarcasm
Jeremy Mallory
T. (bentl...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
: Lars Eighner wrote:
: > the lovely and talented sh...@lightlink.com (Melinda Shore)
: > broadcast on soc.motss:
: >
: > |So, like, do you trample women in crowds?
: >
: > Only if they get between me and the men.
:
: AMEN!!!!!
: Finally someone who sees the light.
Yeah, those stupid bitches.
Beth, how could you *miss* these gems of Enlightenment?
Oh yeah: Beth's a chick.
Jeremy, and she's blocking my CroozView[tm]!
Jeremy Mallory
T. (bentl...@bellsouth.net) wrote:
: beth (s)linker wrote:
: > perfectly understandable. no offense, but i try to keep my attention
: > focused on intelligent people, so i'll just skip over the rest of
: > your posts.
: I would really think this one through.
Beth, the Elder Statesman of soc.motss has already made many
Valuable Contributions, including "telling his grandmother how to piss"
and "sniping at Charlie." Your callous disregard for his wit-free posting
style is indeed a terrible mistake.
Think twice, young Jedi.
Jeremy, you're making a biiiiiiiig mistake