Human overpopulation increases suicide-bomber; just as rat overpopulation increases cannibilism
Archimedes Plutonium
too numerous, they then seek to control their numbers by killing
one another.
Suicide terrorism has become a international problem. In past history
we have never experienced or witnessed such massive increase in
suicide-terrorism.
Is it a direct result of human overpopulation? I believe it is.
And as the world human population goes from 6 billion to 8
billion to 10 billion humans, that the rate of increase in
suicide-terrorism may increase 10 fold or perhaps approaching
100 fold.
People born into a world of something like a Israel-Palestine
Conflict or a Ireland Conflict, may see life as so awful and
so ugly that they chose to commit suicide and to take as
many "other people they consider enemies" with them.
We look at rat overpopulation in cages and we shriek at the horror
of what rats do to one another. Planet Earth with 6 billion and
then 8 billion and then 10 billion humans are born into a world
not much different and perhaps worse than a rat cage.
johnb
WHATS THE CRACK PLUTONIUM ME BE READING WHAT YOU BE WRITING AND ME
IMPRESSED,
IM IRISH AND I ALSO DESPISE THE JEWISH BULLYS AS IT MIRRORS THE IRISH
SITUATION WE SUFFER THE SAME ARSE AS THE POOR PALESTINIANS WHERE YOU
FROM ?
Anonymous
The effects of suicide bombings in comparison with the increases in
world population are microscopic in comparison. The incidence of
suicide bombings are the result of 1. increase in ease of transport.
and 2. increased press coverage of every morbid and destructive event,
both resulting in the propogation of destruction as well as the
magnification of each event beyond its real proportion.
When it comes to that 'rat study', I suggest that you read a
comparitive study on apes. It was in Scientific American about a few
years ago. I am not sure if it is very comforting or not but it is
less bleak than the rat study.
John Lodder
where is the logic to compare the rat race with the *more* (?) intelligent
human race?
ciao
John
--
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CARPE DIEM
John Lodder
*****************
"Archimedes Plutonium" <plut...@willinet.net> schreef in bericht
news:3C19B02D...@willinet.net...
John M Price PhD
Read:
6. Fischer, Claude S., 1948-
The urban experience / Claude S. Fischer ; under the general
editorship of
Robert K. Merton. 2nd ed. San Diego : Harcourt Brace Jovanovich,
c1984.
as start.
In sci.psychology.theory article <SNxS7.7$ux1...@castor.casema.net> John Lodder <john...@wanadoo.nl> wrote:
: Hi Archimedes,
:>
--
John M. Price, PhD jmp...@calweb.com
Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP!
Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion.
Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Bradley Myers
the same system that has caused this overpopulation in the first place by
mass producing and refining foods. Planting the seeds of poverty in other
countries by stealing their natural resources, and replacing them with
packaged food (to make us feel better) so that they can procreate. Luckily,
in the final days of the rainforests, we've discovered genetic engineering.
Now we can further stoke the fire of population with designer fruits and
vegetables (all owned by multinational cooperations). These new foods will
completely nourish the body and completely alter our ecosystem, and provide
a sterile medium for tomorrows ignorant critical sized population to
terrorize each other until the next ice age. Globalization should be
spiritual not economical-talk to me
Brad
"John Lodder" <john...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:SNxS7.7$ux1...@castor.casema.net...
bleach
I think it's not an entirely wrong thought. Comparing it to rats is a
moot point, but the logic is there. As population increases,
population density increases. As population denisty increases, so does
tension. Easy travel has served only to make the world smaller
effectively, which makes population density higher. Media coverage
makes the tension more visible and unbearable.
Also, population density makes more tempting targets, as in sept 11th.
Notice how they were aiming for large urban cneters. The same strategy
applies to bombs of all kind.
In a morbid way, humanity could be seen as a self-regulating problem.
I'm not going to go into Gaia and selfregulating systems here, but
it's something to think about.
bleach
James Hunter
Bradley Myers wrote:
> The term "rat race" is often applied to the capitolistic system. This is
> the same system that has caused this overpopulation in the first place by
> mass producing and refining foods. Planting the seeds of poverty in other
> countries by stealing their natural resources, and replacing them with
> packaged food (to make us feel better) so that they can procreate. Luckily,
> in the final days of the rainforests, we've discovered genetic engineering.
> Now we can further stoke the fire of population with designer fruits and
> vegetables (all owned by multinational cooperations). These new foods will
> completely nourish the body and completely alter our ecosystem, and provide
> a sterile medium for tomorrows ignorant critical sized population to
> terrorize each other until the next ice age. Globalization should be
> spiritual not economical-talk to me
Unfornunately, that's not the way *logic* works though.
By definition a philosopher is someone who fails to see the forest for the
trees,
and a psychologist is someone who fails to the trees for the forest.
John Lodder
Following Archimedes Pluto's reasoning this would mean that the number of
suicidal killers would be "at least" rather large in Holland where the
population density is (one of) the highest in the world. As this suicidal
killing doesn't occur here I could imagine there must be another
explanation. Now I don't know about the number of rats in Holland in
relation to other countries so Archimedes Pluto could be right after all.
Another possibility could be either culture or religion.
My bess guess would be the religion.
John
--
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CARPE DIEM
John Lodder
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"John M Price PhD" <jmp...@calweb.com> schreef in bericht
news:3c1ac...@news3.calweb.com...
Archimedes Plutonium
> Hi Archimedes,
> where is the logic to compare the rat race with the *more* (?) intelligent
> human race?
> ciao
Let me give you a case example. While watching POV program on
US television was seen some children growing up in Israel and Palestine.
We know that both Israel and Palestine are creating babies left and right.
They do this because they know they are at war with one another. The
first signs that people are at war with one another is that their
reproduction goes into full speed. Women have 5 to 10 kids as war
and fighting fodder.
And as they were interviewing these Israel kids you can see the
hatred-- kids saying death, kill, that this land was given by God
to Jacob who changed his name to Israel. And Arab kids saying
death, kill.
So, if you are born as a Palestinian child, who sees his father
killed or put in jail by Israelis. Who sees his home lost to the
Israelis and sees that his car has to be stopped and searched and
sees bombs rockets and helicopters and not a hope of peace and
quiet or to live a normal life. That such a Arab kid would easily
turn to a exit of suicide and why not take out as many of the
perceived enemy as possible.
What I am saying is that when you increase human population to the
point where resources, peace and quiet and anything resembling a
normal life is nonexistent, then suicides increase and thus, terrorism
suicide also increases. If wars cannot regulate overpopulation and
diseases are not virulent enough, then thousands, perhaps millions of
suicide terrorists will balance out the overpopulation.
Archimedes Plutonium
John Lodder wrote:
> did read it some 20 years ago.
> Following Archimedes Pluto's reasoning this would mean that the number of
> suicidal killers would be "at least" rather large in Holland where the
> population density is (one of) the highest in the world. As this suicidal
> killing doesn't occur here I could imagine there must be another
> explanation. Now I don't know about the number of rats in Holland in
> relation to other countries so Archimedes Pluto could be right after all.
> Another possibility could be either culture or religion.
> My bess guess would be the religion.
> John
When looking at global human overpopulation, do not fall into the fallacy
trap of looking at just one country such as Holland, or China, or Indonesia.
One can say that Ireland was doing fine and dandy up until the 19th and
20th century when they could no longer mass migrate over to America
or Australia or other places. In a sense, the 2 Irelands can be blamed on the
Irish for their propensity to overpopulate themselves, and the killing off
of one another is the only escape valve they have in modern times.
WW1 and WW2 would have never happened if the countries of Europe
had had 1/2 of the population size that they did have before the start
of these wars. Since Europeans could not control their population sizes,
just about any little excuse would be the match that lit the flames of
both of these world wars.
Holland has been a seaport for most of its history and many Dutch have
immigrated. But unless the Dutch control their population size, they
will undergo a Yugoslavization where Holland splits up into smaller
countries. Provided Holland can no longer export its overpopulation.
And, Holland will have an alarming increase in terrorism as the
population increases.
Anonymous
> where is the logic to compare the rat race with the *more* (?) intelligent
> human race?
> ciao
> John
Perhaps there is some to be said of the idea that the apes and the
rats are better entities than the humans. Though brutally, to some
extent, the animals will regulate their reproduction rates based upon
their numbers and the scarcity of resources in their environment.
Humans brutally destroy and severely modify their environment and make
the world less viable even for the machines and their energy needs.
Still, when all is said and done, it is still very questionable
wheather human beings are even capable of modulating their activities
in such basic and simple ways. Perhaps humans are inferior to the
animals.
Morpheus
>
> Holland has been a seaport for most of its history and many Dutch have
> immigrated. But unless the Dutch control their population size, they
> will undergo a Yugoslavization where Holland splits up into smaller
> countries. Provided Holland can no longer export its overpopulation.
> And, Holland will have an alarming increase in terrorism as the
> population increases.
>
Will Holland's population increase? My impression is that many of the
countries in Europe have birth rates that have fallen below replacement
levels and I don't think that Holland is an exception. The only real way
this could change is through immigration and the use of "guest workers"
which is already tightly controlled by the government.
Archimedes Plutonium
The smartest countries in the world are the developed countries with
declining birth rates. The good news is that they will stay together
as a country and nation. And this is important for the EU as it is born.
The bad news of the EU is the tug of war between Unionization and
Yugoslavization. The countries that join the EU with declining
birth rates are the "stable countries and rich countries". The
countries that cannot control their birthrates are ill-fated, perhaps
a yugoslavization of their country-- Spain, Italy, central European
countries. Can the EU impose upon its members a control over
their populations? If not, then the EU, just as it is born will begin
to have huge problems of countries destablizing the EU and themselves.
In fact, a stable country such as Germany and Holland and Scandinavian
countries are stable and rich because they can control their populations.
A prime example of destabilization is the Yugoslavization of India. So much
overpopulation that Pakistan was born. Now Pakistan alone has terrible
troubles controlling its own overpopulation and I predict that Pakistan
will in the future fragment into scores of smaller countries. Indonesia
and India again, and China will all Yugoslavization and fragment into
smaller countries.
In the USA, Mexico will conquer the US from the bedroom out. Mexico
was never able to fight against the US and win, until the end of the 20th
century. What Mexico will do is to encourage immigration into the USA.
Exporting their overpopulation. And encourage all Spanish women to
have as many kids as possible. Soon, the states of California, Texas,
New Mexico, Arizona will be more Spanish than English. And they
will gain political power. Then the US will wake up some day, perhaps
2020 and find that Spanish Mexicans outnumber English people in
a 1/3 of the US states and control those states. Then by about 2070
will begin the process of a Yugoslavization of the USA with the
end result of there being several tinier United States.
What the US Civil War of 1860 was not able to achieve in a
fractured US, the Mexican bedroom is able to achieve over time.
James S. Adelman
> One can say that Ireland was doing fine and dandy up until the 19th and
> 20th century when they could no longer mass migrate over to America
> or Australia or other places. In a sense, the 2 Irelands can be blamed on
> the Irish for their propensity to overpopulate themselves, and the killing
> off of one another is the only escape valve they have in modern times.
LOL. Do you know how many people live in Ireland? In any case, the
violence is in Northern Ireland, not Eire; the two are not at war. More to
the point, there was continued fighting between the Catholics and the
Protestants over the centuries before the 19th -- except then the Catholics
were the Irish, and the Protestants were the British.
--
James S. Adelman
Liverpool
Bob Tiernan
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, James S. Adelman wrote:
> More to the point, there was continued fighting between the Catholics
> and the Protestants over the centuries before the 19th -- except then
> the Catholics were the Irish, and the Protestants were the British.
This is not entirely correct. Many Protestants were actually
Irish (and I don't mean Anglo-Irish), and the idea of Irish
nationalism stirred ethnic Irish of both religions (and
probably Irish agnostics, Jews, etc as well). In fact, one
of the great Irish nationalists of the late 19th Century
was a Protestant -- Parnell. But most of the Protestants
were and are British subjects (and their descendants)
who were given land grants by the British government
(after it was stolen from the Irish) so they could
populate Ireland and slowly drive the Irish out.
Things have become very bitter over the decades, so much
that the dividing line can be practically traced exactly
between the two Christian sects. It's become tribal in
that even an agnostic from a long-time Catholic family
could shoot at an agnostic from a long-time Protestant
family (and vice-versa) because those backgrounds
define the groups.
Bob T.
John Lodder
your original point was that increasing populations "automatically" will
lead to more suicidal killing.
I don't agree to that because you rarely don't see that in history.
Your examples of WW1 and WW2 have nothing to do whatsoever with
overpopulation.
There have been wars since (hu)men exist; the last few 100 years we did not
have one single day where there wasn't a single day without a war or armed
conflict in this world.
To my knowledge (fwiw) suicidal killers are only motivated by religion. From
Japanese examples in the past to present Palestinian examples. Psychological
methods and technology combined with religion and lack of economical
perspective makes it easier to motivate people to do so as f.i. some 100
years ago.
ciao
John
--
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CARPE DIEM
John Lodder
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"Archimedes Plutonium" <plut...@willinet.net> schreef in bericht
John Lodder
> What I am saying is that when you increase human population to the
> point where resources, peace and quiet and anything resembling a
> normal life is nonexistent, then suicides increase and thus, terrorism
> suicide also increases.
decreasing circumstances to live in.
I don't see the causal connection between increasing populations, increasing
suicideal behaviour and thus increasing suicidal terrorist killers.
>If wars cannot regulate overpopulation and
> diseases are not virulent enough, then thousands, perhaps millions of
> suicide terrorists will balance out the overpopulation
You say perhaps, I agree to that perhaps.
Though I'm not afraid it will turn into that direction just because I don't
see the trend as you do.
ciao
John.
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CARPE DIEM
John Lodder
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"Archimedes Plutonium" <plut...@willinet.net> schreef in bericht
news:3C1C1FA5...@willinet.net...
Matthew Montchalin
|In the USA, Mexico will conquer the US from the bedroom out.
Catchy phrase.
|Mexico was never able to fight against the US and win, until the
|end of the 20th century. What Mexico will do is to encourage
|immigration into the USA.
Huh? You mean, deliberately make Mexico an undesirable place to
live in, thus motivating people to flee its borders?
|Exporting their overpopulation. And encourage all Spanish women
|to have as many kids as possible. Soon, the states of California,
|Texas, New Mexico, Arizona will be more Spanish than English.
It's trickier than that.
|And they will gain political power. Then the US will wake up some
|day, perhaps 2020 and find that Spanish Mexicans outnumber English
|people in a 1/3 of the US states and control those states. Then by
|about 2070 will begin the process of a Yugoslavization of the USA
|with the end result of there being several tinier United States.
All that, without even having to invoke the law that says the
average diameter of a country is proportional to the fuel available
to an average citizen wishing to drive for one week?
|What the US Civil War of 1860 was not able to achieve in a
|fractured US, the Mexican bedroom is able to achieve over time.
Hey, love makes the world go round.
brazilianite
schools by then.
John Lodder
don't I know you from somewhere? ;-)
>Perhaps humans are inferior to the animals.
Looking at the way people treat animals in general I would say they are
inferior.
Animals kill other animals to eat/to survive.
People kill animals because of a variaty of reasons; for food, for
religion, for money, for fun, for...
ciao
John
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CARPE DIEM
John Lodder
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"Anonymous" <ax1...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:2636c3ae.01121...@posting.google.com...
SilentOtto
>"John Lodder" <john...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message news:<SNxS7.7$ux1...@castor.casema.net>...
>> Hi Archimedes,
>> where is the logic to compare the rat race with the *more* (?) intelligent
>> human race?
>> ciao
>> John
>
>Perhaps there is some to be said of the idea that the apes and the
>rats are better entities than the humans. Though brutally, to some
>extent, the animals will regulate their reproduction rates based upon
>their numbers and the scarcity of resources in their environment.
How so? Rats and other rodents frequently over populate their
environments. When these conditions prevail they fight, destroy their
young, die of disease and starve to death just like we do.
I don't know, and i suspect that no body else knows either, how apes
respond to overpopulation as, to my knowledge, we have never observed
apes in that situation.
While you may successfully argue that we are no better than other
animals, I would dispute that their any better than us.
>
>Humans brutally destroy and severely modify their environment and make
>the world less viable even for the machines and their energy needs.
Many, many species modify their environments, and not always to the
advantage of the other creatures in their ecosystems. The difference
is only one of degree.
>Still, when all is said and done, it is still very questionable
>wheather human beings are even capable of modulating their activities
>in such basic and simple ways. Perhaps humans are inferior to the
>animals.
No, but I wouldn't argue that were superior either.
bleach
> Hi Anonymous,
> don't I know you from somewhere? ;-)
> >Perhaps humans are inferior to the animals.
> Is this a statement or a question?
>
> Looking at the way people treat animals in general I would say they are
> inferior.
> Animals kill other animals to eat/to survive.
> People kill animals because of a variaty of reasons; for food, for
> religion, for money, for fun, for...
> ciao
> John
> --
> *****************
> CARPE DIEM
> John Lodder
> *****************
food?
In general, defining inferiority depends on sets of values. I can't
think of any values that would lead to the thought that humans are
inferior to animals of any kind.
bleach
rem...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2001, Archimedes Plutonium wrote:
> |Exporting their overpopulation. And encourage all Spanish women
> |to have as many kids as possible. Soon, the states of California,
> |Texas, New Mexico, Arizona will be more Spanish than English.
> It's trickier than that.
Especially since I plan to put up a WebSite that teaches English to
everyone with InterNet access, which includes even homeless people
in California because the public libraries have InterNet terminals that
grant typically one hour per day and my program requires only about
20 minutes per day.
> |And they will gain political power. Then the US will wake up some
> |day, perhaps 2020 and find that Spanish Mexicans outnumber English
> |people in a 1/3 of the US states and control those states. Then by
> |about 2070 will begin the process of a Yugoslavization of the USA
> |with the end result of there being several tinier United States.
>
> All that, without even having to invoke the law that says the
> average diameter of a country is proportional to the fuel available
> to an average citizen wishing to drive for one week?
Hmm, that makes sense! People like to take vacations, and they like to
drive, and not have to hassle with some foreign government and with
passports and visas and border checks (except for California's inspection
against insect and other pests on vegetables and fruit from other states),
so they aren't gonna like their favorite vacation spot being split into
another nation.
> |What the US Civil War of 1860 was not able to achieve in a
> |fractured US, the Mexican bedroom is able to achieve over time.
>
> Hey, love makes the world go round.
Wow, I didn't know I was so important! Do I really make the world go round?
John Lodder
it would be nice if you would read the whole thread to get the context of
what I was saying/writing.
My suggetsion is to read back to the original statement(s) of others to
which I responded.
> why do you assume that religion, money and fun are less important than
> food?
*Animals kill other animals to eat/to survive.
People kill animals because of a variaty of reasons; for food, for
With the "...for....." I meant there might be more reasons.
I did not mention or assume a priority like you suggest.
> In general, defining inferiority depends on sets of values. I can't
> think of any values that would lead to the thought that humans are
> inferior to animals of any kind.
In this thread the talk was about (human) (animal) behaviour. That's what I
was writing about.
At itself you are right although I can imagine that animals have sets of
values that are even superior to human values. If animals would know or
understand what values are??
ciao
John
> bleach
--
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CARPE DIEM
John Lodder
*****************
"bleach" <ble...@phreaker.net> schreef in bericht
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Anonymous
The hoards in the third world are controlled by their lust to
reproduce. They are gradually modulating themselves throughout time,
however, weather they are to a significant level is anyone's guess.
It might be that when the effects of this are gradually made more and
more profound throughout the coming century, that the one-man
one-child policy of China will be considered enlightened and virtuous
and there will be a general lament that it was not made more
widespread sooner.
Mexico is not unique in these propensities. What is different about
the Mexico-California border is that there is no significant water or
other geographical boundary between the developed world and the third
world at that point. It is good that they are becoming more educated
both in Mexico and elsewhere. It is good that they are becoming more
economically advanced. Children and human beings, and intelligent
life, is not evil. If conditions are being extablished througout the
world, by humanity, controlled by its bestial nature, such that the
world is made physically unable to supply a sizable percentage of
humanity with its biological prerequisites for existance. This is of
the highest form of evil that there is.
Anonymous
> respond to overpopulation as, to my knowledge, we have never observed
> apes in that situation.
There was an article in Scientific American on the subject about two
or three years ago. I will try to skim through them and find a more
direct reference to issue, date, and page number if you want one.
> While you may successfully argue that we are no better than other
> animals, I would dispute that their any better than us.
Overall, I would say that the intelligence of man, and his
capabilities, is a good thing. That intelligence can generate power
and ability. That, however, can be used for the generation of
destruction, as well as the generation of good. There are some
philosophic systems, from those derived from 'original sin' in the
Bible, to ones like those of Rousseau and the 'corruption of man from
his natural state', which clearly note that civilization can be a
source of evil as well as of good.
There are some hospitals that give time with dogs or other pets as a
form of therapy to their patients. The dogs have limbic emotional
circuits similar to those in humans and the like, even though their
intelligence and there cerebral cortexes are less developed. Why can
the dogs produce these effects when people might not as easily?
Because the patients could trust the dogs. Their friendliness or
playfulness would not be contaminated by the destructive overtones
inherent in a nonexistant intelligence.
One could go into an array of arguements along these lines. I do not
advocate them entirely, myself. But philosophic systems of these
general types have existed for some time.
Matthew Montchalin
|rem...@Yahoo.Com wrote in message news:<ffdf399b.01122...@posting.google.com>...
|> Matthew Montchalin <mmon...@OregonVOS.net> wrote in message news:<Pine.SUN.3.96.101121...@compass.oregonvos.net>...
|> > the average diameter of a country is proportional to the fuel
|> > available to an average citizen wishing to drive for one week?
|>
|> Hmm, that makes sense! People like to take vacations, and they like
|> to drive,
Yes, kind of like that song by Gary Numan- "Cars." For some people,
their car can be their home. The size of a country is relative to
the fuel available to drive a car for a week. Notwithstanding the
arbitrary limits placed on travel by dictatorial governments.
|> and not have to hassle with some foreign government and with
|> passports and visas and border checks (except for California's
|> inspection against insect and other pests on vegetables and fruit
|> from other states), so they aren't gonna like their favorite
|> vacation spot being split into another nation.
|>
|> > |What the US Civil War of 1860 was not able to achieve in a
|> > |fractured US, the Mexican bedroom is able to achieve over time.
|> >
|> > Hey, love makes the world go round.
|>
|> Wow, I didn't know I was so important!
Heh
|> Do I really make the world go round?
|
|The hoards in the third world are controlled by their lust to
|reproduce. They are gradually modulating themselves throughout time,
|however, weather they are to a significant level is anyone's guess.
|It might be that when the effects of this are gradually made more and
|more profound throughout the coming century, that the one-man
|one-child policy of China will be considered enlightened and virtuous
|and there will be a general lament that it was not made more
|widespread sooner.
Hmmmm. Fascinating idea.
|Mexico is not unique in these propensities. What is different about
|the Mexico-California border is that there is no significant water or
|other geographical boundary between the developed world and the third
|world at that point. It is good that they are becoming more educated
|both in Mexico and elsewhere. It is good that they are becoming more
|economically advanced. Children and human beings, and intelligent
|life, is not evil. If conditions are being extablished througout the
|world, by humanity, controlled by its bestial nature, such that the
|world is made physically unable to supply a sizable percentage of
|humanity with its biological prerequisites for existance. This is
|of the highest form of evil that there is.
It would be a major disappointment to see the world's population
suddenly collapse upon itself. I don't think I'll be around when
it happens, though. A pity we don't have lots of colonies on
the Moon, where aluminum and oxygen are so plentiful...
rem...@yahoo.com
> On 24 Dec 2001, Anonymous wrote:
> the Moon, where aluminum and oxygen are so plentiful...
Or in orbital habitat supplied by materials from Luna and near-Earth
asteroids. In either case, I've been pushing for the next step after
LP (Lunar Prospector) apparently found lots of hydrogen in the polar
regions of Luna: Send tele-operated rover to survey that hydrogen,
then send experimental rovers to try various obvious ways to collect
that hydrogen (presumably by boiling water vapor out of the material),
then a whole series of next steps of tele-operated mining and
processing,
leading to a fullscale tele-operated and robotic industry on Luna,
at which point we can tele-build a bio-enclosure to grow
chemoautotrophic
bacteria, then harvest some of them to feed other kinds of bacteria,
leading up to the growth of the kinds of life (flowering plants)
that we like to eat, and at that point we can start building human
colonies if we choose. See what I posted on this topic in
sci.space.policy:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=chemoautotrophic+group:sci.space.policy+author:rem642b%40Yahoo.Com&num=50&hl=en&scoring=d&filter=0
and before that:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=sdiojfe4lul149%40corp.supernews.com