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Pio XII, a difficult papacy during the war 1939-1945
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Mailand
Dec 26, 2009, 11:00:13 AM12/26/09
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Pio XII had a difficult papacy during the war 1939-1945, because he
had to fight against the war and also against the racism of the nazi-
Germany. The current question is, if he did the maximum for helping
the jews or he could do more better?
Ciao - Mailand
had to fight against the war and also against the racism of the nazi-
Germany. The current question is, if he did the maximum for helping
the jews or he could do more better?
Ciao - Mailand
p47
Dec 28, 2009, 12:03:42 PM12/28/09
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Uzytkownik "Mailand" <brambill...@gmail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:789ee316-0a6f-459b...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
In my opinion judging the Pio XII papacy only through the jewish question is
entirely wrong,- he above all had to rule the Roman Catholic Church in those
turbulent years and besides the jewish losses are not the only losses or
even the highest one in the WW II. They are far less then 10% of all
lossess in that war.
Mailand
Dec 29, 2009, 1:01:13 PM12/29/09
to
On 28 Dic, 18:03, "p47" <pgora...@wp.pl> wrote:
> Uzytkownik "Mailand" <brambilla.albe...@gmail.com> napisal w wiadomoscinews:789ee316-0a6f-459b...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> Uzytkownik "Mailand" <brambilla.albe...@gmail.com> napisal w wiadomoscinews:789ee316-0a6f-459b...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
I agree with you that the judge on Pio XII must be given on his entire
war period, but the genocide of the jews is not comparable with the
victims of war. In this case it was a strategy to eliminate a people.
Ciao - Mailand
bria...@webtv.net
Jan 2, 2010, 9:03:17 PM1/2/10
to
Sorry - Pius had no disagreement with the Nazi state. He wanted the
overtrow of the Russian state, and thought that issue was trumps over
everting else.
Pius never argued against the slaughter of Europe's Jews - not in
public and not in private. And Catholic prelates helped - keep in mind
the Croatian Ustashi state was headed by Monsignor Tiso, who could not
have done so without Vatican approval.
As to the Nazi attacks on other countries - where was the Catholic
condemnation ? Who in the German governmet was excommunicated for his
part in the war ? Was there ever an anathema pronounced against any
part of the Nazi state ? That would be a no on each question.
Even in France - remember, the eldest daughter of the Church. What
French Cathlic leader actually opposed the Nazi occupatoion ? Waht
Catholic leader protested the round up of Jews ? Or the extermination
of the Gypsies ? Answers: not one. But the Primate of France, Cardinal
Souhard (sp ?), had no difficulty with the Petainist state, did he ?
Oh, did Pius and the whole Vatican group fear for their lives if
they opposed the Nazi rule ? Did they fear for the Church's continued
existence ? Poor fellows - does that excuse them ? What else could
they do ?
The way of the Cross was open, wasn't it ? And Tertulian's comment
about the blood of martyrs was just as true in 1939 to 1945 as it was in
the days of Diocletian.
And, remind me: what did Pius say in public, or even in private,
about Italian participation in the war against England ? Italian
soldiers wre always a majority of Axis units in the desert battles
against the British, until the Americans came. Italian air crew flew in
the Battle of Britain, and Italian submarines sailed in the Battle of
the Atlantic. Were any Italian sailors or airmen disciplined by the
church ? Well - all no again.
Pius loved whatthe Nazis wre doing. And as Thomas More reminds us,
silence is assent.
BPC
overtrow of the Russian state, and thought that issue was trumps over
everting else.
Pius never argued against the slaughter of Europe's Jews - not in
public and not in private. And Catholic prelates helped - keep in mind
the Croatian Ustashi state was headed by Monsignor Tiso, who could not
have done so without Vatican approval.
As to the Nazi attacks on other countries - where was the Catholic
condemnation ? Who in the German governmet was excommunicated for his
part in the war ? Was there ever an anathema pronounced against any
part of the Nazi state ? That would be a no on each question.
Even in France - remember, the eldest daughter of the Church. What
French Cathlic leader actually opposed the Nazi occupatoion ? Waht
Catholic leader protested the round up of Jews ? Or the extermination
of the Gypsies ? Answers: not one. But the Primate of France, Cardinal
Souhard (sp ?), had no difficulty with the Petainist state, did he ?
Oh, did Pius and the whole Vatican group fear for their lives if
they opposed the Nazi rule ? Did they fear for the Church's continued
existence ? Poor fellows - does that excuse them ? What else could
they do ?
The way of the Cross was open, wasn't it ? And Tertulian's comment
about the blood of martyrs was just as true in 1939 to 1945 as it was in
the days of Diocletian.
And, remind me: what did Pius say in public, or even in private,
about Italian participation in the war against England ? Italian
soldiers wre always a majority of Axis units in the desert battles
against the British, until the Americans came. Italian air crew flew in
the Battle of Britain, and Italian submarines sailed in the Battle of
the Atlantic. Were any Italian sailors or airmen disciplined by the
church ? Well - all no again.
Pius loved whatthe Nazis wre doing. And as Thomas More reminds us,
silence is assent.
BPC
Mailand
Jan 3, 2010, 10:35:48 AM1/3/10
to
Only to historical clarification:
Monsignor Tiso was head of Slovakia and not of Croatia whose head was
Ante Pavelich.
Ciao - Mailand
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