Adm Jack Fletcher and Capt Buckmaster-- Battle of Midway 'Victors'
MA Kingsley
Both men and the Yorktown CV, which was lost, played a direct role in
the US victory at Midway, which was the indisputable turning point for
the war in the Pacific. And both men never were given any combat
command comensurate with the ones they then played. By contrast, Midway
gave Adm Spruance's career a big boost.
In Spruance's case, no question, he deserved all that he got; but with
Fletcher and Buckmaster, it remains hard to explain their less
distinguished future lots. In trying to do so, I have read a few
accounts to find out why and still remain mystified.
Were they stigmatized for the Yorktown being lost? Did Fletcher have a
drinking problem? Anybody?
Charles K. Scott
In article <6a82c1$3...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
MA Kingsley <mo...@mail.redshift.com> writes:
Perhaps you just haven't read the right histories? Fletcher wasn't
finished with Midway, he continued to command carrier fleet action
after this battle. He was the admiral in command during the invasion
of Guadalcanal. THIS was his last command at sea.
He pulled his carriers early from the coverage of the invasion and
refused to send airplanes to intercept the incoming and sighted cruiser
forces of Mikawa who were approaching Guadalcanal. He cited low fuel
in his escorts but from what I have read, he was at least being
overcautious and that fuel reserves weren't that low.
At anyrate, Mikawa attacked that night and sank four heavy cruisers in
the debacle of Savo and Nimitz and King took a hard look at Fletcher's
performance and decided that he needed a rest.
Buckmaster was given another command during the Guadalcanal campaign
and apparently succumbed to the strain because he was at times pretty
neurotic and at other times seemingly completely berzerk. He was
relieved of command after that performance and never commanded a ship
again, if I remember correctly.
Corky Scott
Keith B. Rosenberg
MA Kingsley wrote:
> Both men and the Yorktown CV, which was lost, played a direct role in
> the US victory at Midway, which was the indisputable turning point for
> the war in the Pacific. And both men never were given any combat
> command comensurate with the ones they then played. By contrast, Midway
> gave Adm Spruance's career a big boost.
>
> In Spruance's case, no question, he deserved all that he got; but with
> Fletcher and Buckmaster, it remains hard to explain their less
> distinguished future lots. In trying to do so, I have read a few
> accounts to find out why and still remain mystified.
>
> Were they stigmatized for the Yorktown being lost? Did Fletcher have a
> drinking problem? Anybody?
Fletcher lost two (about one quarter) of the U.S. Navy's
precious carriers and at least two others were damaged
under his command. He had what I would call ordinary
competence at a time when the situation called for more.
He also did not have (or make) much luck.
Lexington was sunk at Coral Sea (May 1942)
Yorktown was damaged at Coral Sea (June 1942)
Yorktown was sunk at Midway (June 1942)
Enterprise was damaged at the Battle of the Eastern Solomons (August 1942)
Saratoga was damaged around Guadalcanal (September 1942)
********************************************************************
enor...@ix.netcom.com (Keith B. Rosenberg) (EN][)
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
********************************************************************
John Nicholas
Not only the Events of August 7 - 10, 1942 culminating the the Battle of
Savo Island effected Fletcher's career. He also commanded at the Battle
of the Eastern Solomons (8-25-42). This was the first of the two
carrier battles surrounding the Guadalcanal Campaign.
He pulled the same low fuel stuff as at Savo Island and sent Saratoga
out of the Battle prior to the battle for fueling.
In the August of 1942 battles he had Adm Robert Ghormley as his
commander (So. Pac.). Nimitz releaved Ghormley in Oct. to be replaced
by Halsey.
There are many including Morison that critize Fletcher for his choice of
fueling his ships at the times he chose.
His defenders point out that he commanded all the available US
carriers(3) at Guadalcanal. The IJN had 6 available. He had lost one
at Coral Sea and one at Midway. He was cautious for a reason. They
also point out that he had been in combat command for most of the war
to that date. They also make other very vigorous defenses.
For my opinion, I feel that he was overly cautious. He (and Ghormley)
almost lost the US position on Guadalcanal.
For more info in the Guadalcanal Campaign see:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/6672/canal_index.html
Guadalcanal Online.
stni...@aol.com
John Nicholas
John Lundstrom
Charles K. Scott (Charles.K.Scott@**nospam**.dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: Buckmaster was given another command during the Guadalcanal campaign
: and apparently succumbed to the strain because he was at times pretty
: neurotic and at other times seemingly completely berzerk. He was
: relieved of command after that performance and never commanded a ship
: again, if I remember correctly.
This description of Captain Elliott Buckmaster is totally incorrect.
After the loss of the Yorktown, Buckmaster was promoted to rear
admiral. He commanded NAS Norfolk July-Oct. 42, served in the
air training command until 1945, then was CO of the Western
Carolines and finally the naval forces in South China. He retired
as a vice admiral in 1946.
Apparently Corky Scott is referring to Captain Miles
Browning, Halsey's chief of staff up through Guadalcanal
who blew his tenure as CO of the second Hornet (CV-12) in 1944 and
ended up in Kansas.
John Lundstrom
Keith B. Rosenberg
Harold Hutchison wrote:
> I've toalked with a few people about this, setup, and the
> general consensus I've heard is that Fletcher was treated unjustly by
> King. Yeah, we took at beating in the three engagements, but at the
> same time, we won them startegically.
> Coral Sea: Japanese invasion of Port Moresby turned back.
> Midway: Kido Batai's four carriers sunk, Japanese invasion of
> Midway called off, large number of veteran pilots killed.
> Eastern Solomons: Japanese attack on Guadalcanal beachhead
> turned back.
>
> Yes, he lost three carriers (Lexington, Yorktown, and Wasp),
> and had three damaged (Yorktown, Enterprise, and Saratoga). He was
> not our best person for Midway (I think Halsey would have done
> better), and he was overly cautious. Still, he won his battles. The
> $64,000 question was if we could afford to have him continue winning
> battles.
>
The Wasp was not under his command when it was lost.It was under the command of
Rear Admiral Leigh Noyes
who was the commander of TF 18.
Fletcher appears to have left the scene along with the
wounded Saratoga after 31 Aug 1942. S.E. Morison
says that Fletcher was wounded also at that time.
Fletcher only won the Battle of Eastern Solomons
because the Japanese were more timid than he was.
He had a tendency to send his ships out of the
battle for refueling at bad times. He did this during
the Wake relief and also during the Solomons battle.
--
Harold Hutchison
> Fletcher lost two (about one quarter) of the U.S. Navy's
> precious carriers and at least two others were damaged
> under his command. He had what I would call ordinary
> competence at a time when the situation called for more.
> He also did not have (or make) much luck.
>
> Lexington was sunk at Coral Sea (May 1942)
> Yorktown was damaged at Coral Sea (June 1942)
> Yorktown was sunk at Midway (June 1942)
> Enterprise was damaged at the Battle of the Eastern Solomons (August 1942)
> Saratoga was damaged around Guadalcanal (September 1942)
I've toalked with a few people about this, setup, and the
general consensus I've heard is that Fletcher was treated unjustly by
King. Yeah, we took at beating in the three engagements, but at the
same time, we won them startegically.
Coral Sea: Japanese invasion of Port Moresby turned back.
Midway: Kido Batai's four carriers sunk, Japanese invasion of
Midway called off, large number of veteran pilots killed.
Eastern Solomons: Japanese attack on Guadalcanal beachhead
turned back.
Yes, he lost three carriers (Lexington, Yorktown, and Wasp),
and had three damaged (Yorktown, Enterprise, and Saratoga). He was
not our best person for Midway (I think Halsey would have done
better), and he was overly cautious. Still, he won his battles. The
$64,000 question was if we could afford to have him continue winning
battles.
--
"I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five?
Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost
track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful
handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to
ask yourself one questin: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?"
Clint Eastwood as Harry Callahan
"Dirty Harry"
Merlin Dorfman
Charles K. Scott (Charles.K.Scott@**nospam**.dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: At anyrate, Mikawa attacked that night and sank four heavy cruisers in
: the debacle of Savo and Nimitz and King took a hard look at Fletcher's
: performance and decided that he needed a rest.
Also Fletcher was slightly wounded when (I think) the Saratoga
was torpedoed (for the second time in the war) and this seemed to
Nimitz and King a good opportunity to give him some beach time. He
did get shore-based commands later in the war but no more fleet
commands. John Lundstrom, among others, has argued that Fletcher was
treated unfairly by King during the war and Morison after the war.
Merlin Dorfman
DOR...@COMPUTER.ORG
Charles K. Scott
In article <6ae25f$9...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
j...@mpm1.mpm.edu (John Lundstrom) writes:
>
> Apparently Corky Scott is referring to Captain Miles
> Browning, Halsey's chief of staff up through Guadalcanal
> who blew his tenure as CO of the second Hornet (CV-12) in 1944 and
> ended up in Kansas.
> John Lundstrom
Mr. Lundstom is correct, my apologies for mixing up names and my
appreciation for seeing the correct information.
Corky Scott
John Nicholas
This thread contained two more items:
> Eastern Solomons: Japanese attack on Guadalcanal beachhead turned back.
I do not accept this. Adm. Tanaka was carrying 1,500 men on his
transports. They did not turn back until the next day. After he had been
hit by A/C from Henderson Field. That's when his flagship Jintsu was
struck. Yes, the main Battle of Eastern Solomons was the day before, Yes,
the major carriers of both sides were attempting to look like they were
looking for each other.
>: At anyrate, Mikawa attacked that night and sank four heavy cruisers in
>: the debacle of Savo and Nimitz and King took a hard look at Fletcher's
>: performance and decided that he needed a rest.
Mikawa sank the four Allied Cruisers at Savo Island on August 10.
The Battle of the Eastern Solomons occurred August 25. The Saratoga was
torpedoed in September resulting in Fletcher's wound. That is when he was
relieved.
There was a big stink about Savo Island. It was announced to the US public
in the middle of October. Adm. Halsey replaced Ghormley on Oct. 18. He
took some heat.
The time line is:
Savo Island was Aug 9-10. IJN win.
Eastern Solomons Aug. 24. USN win.
Saratoga Torpedoed Aug 31 damage
Wasp Torpedoed Sept 15. sunk
Cape Esperance Oct 11-12. USN win.
Santa Cruz Islands Oct Oct 26 IJN win
Naval Battle of Guadalcanal Oct 13-15 USN win
Tassaforonga Nov 30 IJN win.
For more information see Guadalcanal Online
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/6672/canal_index.html
John Nicholas
stn...@feist.com
Brad Meyer
In message <6a82c1$3...@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> - MA Kingsley <mo...@mail.redshift.
com> writes:
>
>
>
>Both men and the Yorktown CV, which was lost, played a direct role in
>the US victory at Midway, which was the indisputable turning point for
>the war in the Pacific.
A turning point certainly. _The_ turning point is more likely the somewhere
in the Guadacanal campaign -- perhaps the Naval Battle of Guadacanal, 13-14
Nov, 42. As Halsey aptly noted "Before Guadacanal the enemy advanced at his
pleasure. After Guadacanal he retreated at ours."
>And both men never were given any combat
>command comensurate with the ones they then played.
I don't know that this is true. Fletcher was the carrier TF commnader (and
IIRC the SOPA) for the Guadacanal invasion. I think it was his actions in
this command that sealed his doom with King. I am unfamiliar with
Buckmaster's post-Midway career.
Brad Meyer
"It is history that teaches us to hope."
-- R E Lee