Quote regarding Swedish neutrality
T. Fink
Swedish official / politician / diplomat angered the British by saying
"If Sweden enters the war, I will not be on the British side." or
something similar. Does anybody know if this happened, and - if yes -
who did say this?
Cheers
Torsten
a425couple
> ---- a Swedish official / politician / diplomat angered the British by
> something similar. Does anybody know if this happened, and - if yes - who
> did say this? Cheers Torsten
Interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_during_World_War_II
is also interesting & informative, but does not answer your point.
For WWI, some indication King Gustav V wished
to enter with Germany / against British.
http://histclo.com/essay/war/ww2/cou/swe/ww2-swe.html
It is possible that someone attributed Sven Hedin making
such a statement, but I can't now find such:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven_Hedin
David Wilma
policies, etc., but antipathy towards the UK. Eire too held to
neutrality too for that reason, right?
Mario
> What the quote might imply is not so much any affinity with
> German policies, etc., but antipathy towards the UK. Eire too
> held to neutrality too for that reason, right?
Sympathy and antipathy have little value in deciding whether go
to war.
--
H
Dave Smith
I don't know about the accuracy of the quote, but I can tell you about
my father's experience in Sweden. He spent a few days in jail in Malmo
for illegal entry after arriving by kayak from Denmark with Lars Troen,
a Danish officer cadet who had escaped from the Gestapo. He was treated
very well while in jail. The police officers brought him books in
English. After being given temporary refugee status he was released from
jail, provided with a hotel and ration tickets, and the policemen
chipped in and bought him a set of gold cuff links. However, he was
given a deadline to leave the country. If he had been in uniform he
would have been interned.
After he release from jail he was invited to have coffee with the crown
prince and his wife, who were staying in a local hotel. After about a
week he caught a flight back to the UK. I would say that, for a country
that something might have sided with the Nazis, they treated him pretty
well.
W.A. Baker
It's hardly a surprising thing for any Swedish official to say at the
time. British attempts to interdict Swedish exports of iron ore to
Germany forced the invasion of Norway the Germans, in the minds of
many Swedes. Trading in ore with Nazi Germany was perfectly legal
under the Hague Conventions.
>From the Swedish perspective, they were trying to maintain an existing
trade in raw ore--rocks, essentially--with another nation. Open
commerce in, by international standards, non-munitions goods between a
declared neutral nation and another. Presumably the Germans paid in
gold or hard currency (is that right?).
We Americans, though, nominally neutral, were willing to sell the
British and French actual manufactured munitions, especially
warplanes. Cash down (until Lend-Lease) and the customer was
responsible for final shipment, but we'd sell 'em. Not rocks,
planes. Planes with guns. Oh right, we'd theoretically sell them to
the Germans as well. As I've opined before, I've always wondered how
that would have went:
"Morgen, is this Glendale 3-4186? Lockheed sales department? Ah,
gut. This is General Ernst Udet, Reichsmarshal fuer dem...was?
What? Oh, mein akzent, enschuldigung. I am, how you say...the big-
wig of the German air force who buys the aeroplanes. I would like to
place an order. Fuer was? What do you sell, wurst? Is this a sales
call? Of course--gott im himmel...
"Hello? This is, yes, Herr General fuer--ah, you've heard of me.
Seen us on the newsreels, sehr comisch. 'Knocking down Limey kites,'
well, my boys aren't too shabby, eh? Sehen Sie...ja? Vally? Wuh,
Wfally? Whvally Blatt. Dein name! Ah so, ich verstehe. (Laughs)
May I call you Herr Blatt? Mein akzent, it will be easier. Sehen
Sie, Vally, I want to buy aeroplanes. Ja, es gut, you make them, can
you make some for us? P-38's. Richtig, your "latest sports job."
No, no, right now. Your, um...your brochure was very convincing.
Right away. Six squadrons, with one reserve squadron. The E model.
"Herr Blatt, this is the easy part. Ten percent over what the British
paid you. In gold. No actual gold, you are still on the gold
standard, nicht wahr? Pierside in Long Beach, we'll send one of our u-
boats. We'll arrange shipping, of course. Through Vladivostok or
Morocco, but that's our problem, right? Of course we want the turbo-
superchargers! Ja, we heard about that. With them, absolutely.
Sure, of course that will cost extra. Charge us what you would have
charged them with the blowers, plus ten percent. See, Vally, we are
'gelt fuer brot' people. We're not going to jew you down on the
options. A little off for love, of course, we're not exactly
Uruguay."
A little OT, but you get the point. Ties between "Germany" (pre-
federation) and Scandinavia go back to the Hanseatic League. The
Swedes were neutrals of long (by international standards) standing.
They were just selling ore. And here comes the largest empire in the
world seriously endangering their neutral status by trying to stop
those ore shipments. And they're doing it by stomping all over the
neutrality of Norway, which was a part of Sweden (depending on who you
ask) only thirty-odd years earlier.
Sorry, Torsten, what was the question again? Who said that exactly?
I don't know.
Michele
news:9a74618b-3107-4a42...@h7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> What the quote might imply is not so much any affinity with German
> policies, etc., but antipathy towards the UK.
Or simply realistic geopolitical assessments. If a Portuguese diplomat had
stated that should his country declare war, it would be against Germany, I'd
tend to consider that statement exactly in that way. Maybe the Swedish
diplomat knew that declaring war against Germany was not a non-suicidal
option for his country (save maybe in 1945, but maybe the statement had come
earlier than that).
euno...@yahoo.com.au
Given the Soviet Unions military annexation of the Baltic Startes of
Lithunia, Estonia and Latvia and their war on Finland alleigence with
Germany would have made sense. A Soviet attack beyond Finland into
Norway or Swedden would have been a step to far for the 3rd Reich to
tollerate and well beyond any Reich/Soviet Compakts.
It was the Nazis and Fascists that saw dangers in bolshevism while in
the USA the appologia in the developing counter cultural movement was
already developing a selective blindness. (Malcolm Muggeridge's
efforts asside) Hence the New York times litterally missed mentioning
the Holdamoor all the time while its pulitizer prize winning writers
such as Walter Duranty and Joe Rapaport praised the Soviet Union.
mtfe...@netmapsonscape.net
> It was the Nazis and Fascists that saw dangers in bolshevism while in
> the USA the appologia in the developing counter cultural movement was
> already developing a selective blindness.
Boy, somebody's full of something better used by spreading over the
soil to help the pretty flowers grow.
In fact, there was a very strong contingent in the US that saw both
the Germans and the Japanese as bulwarks against the possible spread of
Communism. It was only when those 2 regimes showed no signed of slowing
their territorial ambitions that the US turned solidly against them.
Mike
Geoffrey Sinclair
news:c8ecb498-af67-4035...@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 27, 12:52 am, "T. Fink" <f...@freenet.de> wrote:
>> I remember reading somewhere that during the first year or so of WWII a
>> Swedish official / politician / diplomat angered the British by saying
>> "If Sweden enters the war, I will not be on the British side." or
>> something similar. Does anybody know if this happened, and - if yes -
>> who did say this?
>
> Lithunia, Estonia and Latvia and their war on Finland alleigence with
> Germany would have made sense. A Soviet attack beyond Finland into
> Norway or Swedden would have been a step to far for the 3rd Reich to
> tollerate and well beyond any Reich/Soviet Compakts.
What I like about the above paragraph is Communist expansion is
acceptable when Hitler approves, but other claimed supporters of
Stalin (see below) are bad. Also it is fun to note the idea is to claim
the threat to Sweden was from the USSR, not Germany.
The Soviet Union had to at least advance through Finland to reach
Sweden. Germany had forces in Norway as well as Finland, as well
as providing some important imports for Sweden. This is before we
note the way Hitler attacked other countries, Stalin did his attacks
with German permission.
Simply put given the strategic situation between mid 1940 and to
at least the end of 1943 and more probably to mid 1944 Sweden
understood going to war with Germany would almost certainly
mean defeat and occupation. Though of course what Finland
does in such a situation would be interesting.
It was in early 1944 Sweden felt strong enough to start disengaging
from Germany, the Baltic Ports were declared ice blocked when in
fact the thaw had arrived. Thereby delaying iron ore exports.
Later in 1944 came bans on Swedish ships entering German ports,
officially due to the threat of allied attack on those ports.
> It was the Nazis and Fascists that saw dangers in bolshevism while in
> the USA the appologia in the developing counter cultural movement was
> already developing a selective blindness. (Malcolm Muggeridge's
> efforts asside)
Actually the communists and the fascists both had their cheer squads,
the big difference being Hitler ensured much more bad press early for
the fascist cause. Later Stalin did the same for the communists.
Also of course the communist menace was an excuse, amazing how
many conservative politicians and others were the among the first
victims of the Nazis, along with left wing people. After all Hitler
was after power, destroying any opposition was a requirement.
Strange how the communist menace requires a fascist menace
but of course some prefer to drop one of the menaces from the
phrase.
> Hence the New York times litterally missed mentioning
> the Holdamoor all the time while its pulitizer prize winning writers
> such as Walter Duranty and Joe Rapaport praised the Soviet Union.
Of course the foreign media in Germany in 1939 to 1941 seem to have
largely missed the Nazi mass murders in Poland, including the beginning
of the industrial system for mass murder. Presumably because they
were Nazi sympathisers and selectively blind as well. No chance like in
the Soviet Union an authoritarian police state could limit the media and
keep the bad news quiet, right?
Geoffrey Sinclair
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