Hermann Goehring -- Homosexual?
nil...@my-dejanews.com
to this? Also, in general, was homosexuality tolerated in any of the Axis or
Allied Armed Forces? I assume not, but just wanted to verify.
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efr...@mocha.memphis.edu
> to this?
Not impossible, certainly, but I think his make-up
and bizarre uniforms were more an expression of a
flamboyant personality than evidence of homosexuality
(it's a cliche', but The [original] Fat One would
have made a good rock star).
> Also, in general, was homosexuality tolerated in any of the Axis or
> Allied Armed Forces? I assume not, but just wanted to verify.
It depends. Homosexual acts were crimes in all
modern countries, and the Allies were able to make
a lot of propaganda hay out of Goering's weirdness,
but it would be hard to argue that it was -never-
tolerated. Being well-connected and high-ranking
was as useful then as now for the "deviant,"
and I'm sure that most armies tolerated some
level of it as long as the soldiers involved were
good ones otherwise.
There's a study of the issue in the US forces called
_Coming Out Under Fire_ but I haven't read it and
have forgotten the author.
Ed Frank
Emmanuel Gustin
<6utihf$q72$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
>I've heard rumors that Hermann Goehring was a homosexual?
>Is there any truth to this?
IIRC, the SS report on Goering claimed that he had homosexual
tendencies, probably because of his extraordinary uniforms and
his use of make-up. Goering was furious at first, but later laughed
about it. There is no evidence that he was homosexual; he seems
to have been a faithful husband both to his first wife (Karin, after
whom he named Karinhall; she died before the war and he used
to embarass his guests by giving them a tour of her mausoleum!)
and his second wife.
Before WWII, the nazis removed general von Fritsch (who
opposed Hitler's hare-brained expansion plans) from office
using a false accusation of homosexuality... It was not
acceptable in the German army. The SA leader Ernst Rohm
(spelling?), who was murdered in the "night of the long knives",
was homosexual, perhaps indicating that the nazis were tolerant
at this stage... But later they sent homosexuals to the concentration
camps. It is possible that the claim about Goering was a move
in the power struggle among the nazi leadership.
Emmanuel Gustin
Rich Rostrom
> I've heard rumors that Hermann Goehring was a homosexual?
> Is there any truth to this?
Not that I've ever heard.
Goering (no H) was married twice, and largely faithful to both wives.
His main physical appetites were food and drink, thus his
obesity. Also, he was badly wounded in the 1923 Munich Putsch,
and this wound never healed. He used codeine and other
powerful pain-killers very heavily, and this would have
inhibited his sex drive.
You may have been thinking of Ernst Rohm, who was head of
the Sturm Abteilung (Storm Troopers), the Nazi Party militia.
He was definitely a homosexual.
Rohm viewed himself as a peer of Hitler, but soon after Hitler
became Fuhrer, he had Rohm and other SA leaders arrested and
summarily executed (the Night of the Long Knives).
--
Rich Rostrom | "Ah, White Lightning, that splits the skull and
| encourages the body and the sentiments!"
R-Rostrom@ |
mcs.net | -- R. A. Lafferty, _The Reefs of Earth_
André Koppers
view.
First, many Nazis are part of the so-called lost generation, as some
historians put it. Men who fought in WWI, lost their country, their values
and were left behind with a country in disaray. Also, male bonding in
trenches was not strange. This does'nt mean that homosexuals were born in
trenches, but war and men have since the Greek times that other inclination.
Strangely, always hetrosexual men fight WWI or WWII,
Roehm, Hess and Hitler all had their peculiar sexual habits. Hess was lured
into Engalnd by a secret English mission in order to visit one of his kind.
He was part of an international homosexual network. Roehm and SA-officials
were notorious homosexuals as were other higher SS and police officials.
Hitler was into piss and shitty sex and always asked for political
obidience. Killing, murdering or any other style far away from ordinary
bourgouis way of life was of ni significance within the Nazi-movement.
The fact that blond, short haircut and slim men (look at the typical
SS-male) have an inclination toward a homosexual (surely not the sturdy John
Wayne All-American he-men; BTW the Duke married Latins three times) always
make me wonder who made this arch-type. Anyway, that's far away from calling
the NSDAP a gay-party, but having top-officials living such a double-life
makes one wonder nevertheless. Double-life of homosexuals is typical for
scouts in the world of espionage and is a perfect explanation for
recruitment of loyal killers (as is having recruiting double-life
hetrosexuals: being nice daddy during the evening with mommy and children
and being the camp-killer during the day while building a Third Reich where
is no room for "the others").
André Koppers
historian
nil...@my-dejanews.com heeft geschreven in bericht
<6utihf$q72$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
>I've heard rumors that Hermann Goehring was a homosexual? Is there any
>truth to this? Also, in general, was homosexuality tolerated in any of
>the Axis or Allied Armed Forces? I assume not, but just wanted to
>verify.
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Mike Seiler
> Roehm, Hess and Hitler all had their peculiar sexual habits. Hess was
> lured into Engalnd by a secret English mission in order to visit one of
> his kind. He was part of an international homosexual network. Roehm and
> SA-officials were notorious homosexuals as were other higher SS and
> police officials.
> Hitler was into piss and shitty sex and always asked for political
> obidience. Killing, murdering or any other style far away from ordinary
> bourgouis way of life was of ni significance within the Nazi-movement.
I have never read such trash and I am surprised that the moderator let it
through.
I have read that Rohm was homosexual and I don't care whether he was or
not. But think about this, accusing Rohm of being homosexual lessened the
damage that could have resulted from his murder.
There was another case where a General(can't remember his name)was also accused
of homosexuality because he didn't dance to Hitlers tune.
And the same thing is probably happening in Malaysia now.The deputy is
facing charges of sodomy only after being recognized as a threat to his
leader.
As for that dribble about Hess and Hitlers sexual appetites,you either
have a weird imagination or you are trying to antagonize other people in
this news group.
ScootterP
>Mike Seiler <mic...@ecn.net.au>
>Date: 10/7/98 3:03 PM !!!First Boot!!!
>There was another case where a General(can't remember his name)was also
>accused
>of homosexuality because he didn't dance to Hitlers tune.
>
I belive it was Von Blomberg, trumped up charges. He was eventually given
command in 1943 (?) a division I think.
Scott
Emmanuel Gustin
>I belive it was Von Blomberg, trumped up charges. He was eventually given
>command in 1943 (?) a division I think.
Pretty certain that it was von Fritsch. General von Blomberg was
forced to resign after his marriage, when the nazis "discovered"
that his bride had once been arrested for prostitution.
Emmanuel Gustin
Lee Russell
Von Fritsch (sp?), I think, the prewar Commander of the German Army. He
was falsely accused of homosexual activity (a police report) and denied
the charge on his honor as a German officer. We all know what Hitler
thought of that. (The police report referred to a different officer of the
same name.) Following the Blomberg scandal, where the Army commander
married a woman with a record as a prostitute (Hitler serving as witness
to the wedding), this allowed Hitler to assume the title of Commander in
Chief, and bend the Army to his will. Von Fritsch was killed in action in
Poland in 1939, after reporting for duty to the regiment he was honorary
Colonel of.
Rich Rostrom
> >Mike Seiler <mic...@ecn.net.au> wrote
>
> >There was another case where a General... was also
> >accused of homosexuality because he didn't dance to Hitlers tune.
> I belive it was Von Blomberg, trumped up charges. He was eventually
> given command in 1943 (?) a division I think.
The victim of the homosexuality charge was Colonel General Werner
Fritsch, commander in chief of the Army in 1938. Von Fritsch didn't
like the Nazis and had opposed Hitler's expansionist program.
Himmler pulled the trigger (confronting von Fritsch with a "witness"
in Hitler's presence). Von Fritsch was removed; in 1939, he was
allowed to serve with his old regiment and was killed in the fighting
around Warsaw.
Field Marshal Von Blomberg was War Minister up to January 1938. He
was removed on the pretext of his marriage to a former prostitute.
Freida Harris
Baldur von Schirach, leader of the Hitler Jugend was homosexual. Also,
according to many sources so was Ernst Rohm. However, General von
Fritsch was most certainly framed. (In fact, his accuser was in the
process of blackmailing a man named von Frisch, when the Gestapo thought
that the convenient name similarity could be used to their advantage.)
The information concerning Hitler's peculiar sexual practices comes from
_The Mind of Adolph Hitler_ by Dr. Walter Langer, who wrote a
psychological profile of Hitler for the Office of Strategic Services
during the war years. The report was published by Basic Books in 1972.
Langer never revealed his sources for such intimate information.
Freida Z. Harris
Christopher Morton
>Regarding homosexuality in the Third Reich:
>
>Baldur von Schirach, leader of the Hitler Jugend was homosexual. Also,
>according to many sources so was Ernst Rohm. However, General von
>Fritsch was most certainly framed. (In fact, his accuser was in the
>process of blackmailing a man named von Frisch, when the Gestapo thought
>that the convenient name similarity could be used to their advantage.)
I have never heard before that von Schirach was a homosexual, but it
is virtually beyond question that Roehm was. He was as well, a
pedophile who according to Hoehne in "Order of the Death's Head"
recruited partners from the high schools.
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Koontz Christopher Noel
> On 10 Oct 1998 16:27:54 GMT, Mal...@webtv.net (Freida Harris) wrote:
>>Regarding homosexuality in the Third Reich:
>>
>>Baldur von Schirach, leader of the Hitler Jugend was homosexual. Also,
>>according to many sources so was Ernst Rohm. However, General von
>>Fritsch was most certainly framed. (In fact, his accuser was in the
>>process of blackmailing a man named von Frisch, when the Gestapo thought
>>that the convenient name similarity could be used to their advantage.)
> I have never heard before that von Schirach was a homosexual, but it
That's because he wasn't. There were persistent rumors that Schirach was
homosexual, apparently because he wrote poetry and worked with boys. I've
never seen any conclusive proof of his homosexuality; the closest thing
I've seen is in Telford Taylor's book on Nuremberg, in which he writes
that one of the headshrinkers assigned to study the prisoners confided to
him at a heavy-boozing party that he thought that Schirach (as well as
Frank and, I think, two of the other defendants) were homosexual.
Schirach's marriage to Henriette Hoffmann (daughter of Hitler's
photographer Heinrich) had its showy and facile side, but they did have
four kids in a very short timespan and they seemed to get along all right
with one another until she dumped him while he did his richly-deserved
twenty-year stint at Spandau.
If there's any evidence that Schirach was homosexual, I'd love to know
where it is. I'm writing my dissertation on him.
Chris