Did Stalin know of A-Bomb
xcdc...@aol.com
Hello all,
I've got a running bet with a friend of mine. I believe I remember hearing somewhere (history class?) that Stalin had been told by the president of the existance of a "weapon of great damage
potential" (or somesuch), to which Stalin was unsurprised because he had recieved information about the test detonation of the A-bomb days earlier and was able to reply that we should use it if we
have it.
My friend contends that the Soviets knew nothing of the bomb and that my story is a load of bunk. Can anyone help me confirm this or was I just dreaming the whole thing?
I thank you for your assistance,
Chance
"If you think you can, you're right. If you think you can't, you're right!" -- Henry Ford
efr...@msuvx2.memphis.edu
xcdchance writes:
> I've got a running bet with a friend of mine.
You win.
> I believe I remember hearing somewhere (history class?)
> that Stalin had been told by the president of the existance
> of a "weapon of great damage
> potential" (or somesuch), to which
> Stalin was unsurprised because he had recieved
> information about the test detonation of the
> A-bomb days earlier and was able to reply that we should use it if we
> have it.
This sounds like the incident at Potsdam, when
Truman told Stalin about the successful detonation
of the test bomb in New Mexico. Stalin was smart
enough to have acted unimpressed, even if he hadn't
known of it, but...
> My friend contends that the Soviets knew nothing of
> the bomb and that my story is a load of bunk.
Your friend is misinformed. The Soviets had a large
and effective spy network in the Manhattan Project,
so much so that (IIRC) they were told to concentrate
on the implosion detonator and other advanced ideas
rather than pursue basic theory, which they were already
pretty good at. (This is from my memory of Richard
Rhodes' _The Making of the Atomic Bomb_ which I read
about three years ago. I beleive it-- my memory--to
be largely accurate.)
> Can anyone help me confirm this or was I just dreaming the whole thing?
See what your friend is smoking ;).
Ed Frank
Les Mills
In article <5iclcu$c...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>,
xcdc...@aol.com wrote:
(stuff deleted)
>I believe I remember hearing somewhere (history class?) that Stalin had
>been told by the president of the existance of a "weapon of great damage
>potential" (or somesuch), to which Stalin was unsurprised because he
>had recieved information about the test detonation of the A-bomb days
>earlier and was able to reply that we should use it if we
> have it.
>From "Operation Downfall", the quickest source I have handy...
--Begin exerpt, page 267
Truman told Churchill about the successful detonation of the atomic
bomb shortly after he received details of the Alamogordo test, but he
held back on giving the information to Stalin until July 24. When he
"casually mentioned to Stalin that we had a new weapon of unusual
destructive force," Stalin "showed no special interest," Truman later
wrote.
The Soviet Union had initiated its own atomic bomb project in late
1942, by which time the Soviet leadership was aware of nuclear
research in the United States as well as in Germany. Throughout
the war, the Soviet government was well informed about the Anglo-
American program to build the atomic bomb, with several spies in
Britain and the United States -- some at the Los Alamos laboratory
where the bomb was developed -- providing a steady flow of
information about designs and progress.
--End exerpt
> My friend contends that the Soviets knew nothing of the bomb and
>that my story is a load of bunk. Can anyone help me confirm this or
>was I just dreaming the whole thing?
I believe there is a web site that gives a more complete exerpt of
Truman's account in telling Stalin. There is even an account of
Churchill's point of view, and Krustiev's (bad spelling alert). I don't
have the URL, so the best advice I can give is to do a keyword
search and check out the sites dedicated to the Atomic bomb.
At any rate, if you had money riding on the bet, do I get 50%
of the profits? :-)
Mark Brader
> I've got a running bet with a friend of mine. I believe I remember
> hearing somewhere (history class?) that Stalin had been told by the
> president of the existance of a "weapon of great damage potential"
> (or somesuch), to which Stalin was unsurprised because he had recieved
> information about the test detonation of the A-bomb days earlier and
> was able to reply that we should use it if we have it.
Substantially true. See "Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb"
by Richard Rhodes (1995, Touchstone paperback edition 1996; ISBN
0-684-80400-X, paperback ISBN 0-684-82414-0). A large amount of the
first part of the book is about how the Soviets came to acquire pretty
much all of the US secrets during development of the A-bomb; the events
in the last weeks of the war are covered in chapter 9.
By the beginning of July, the Soviets had a description of the concentric
layers making up the Fat Man bomb, although not yet the full details
of the initiator or the explosive lenses (those came a few months later).
They knew the quantities of the major materials involved; they knew the
order of magnitude of the yield expected; and they also knew that the
device was to be tested on July 10 or thereabouts.
The test, code named Trinity, was actually held on July 16. Truman's
conversation with Stalin occurred, substantially as given above, on
July 24 when the Allied leaders met in conference at Potsdam, Germany.
The spies' communication channels were not especially fast, so Stalin
might well not yet have known at Potsdam that the test had actually
occurred, but he was certainly aware of the project, and its potential,
and its status approaching completion.
--
Mark Brader "You read war books -- people shooting each other,
SoftQuad Inc. people bombing each other, people torturing each
m...@sq.com other. I like to look at people doing, uh, naughty
Toronto things to each other!" -- Ria, "Butterflies"
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Lee Russell
There was a recent program relating to this on The Discovery Channel, I
think. Expatriate German Communist Klaus Fuchs was giving complete
information via the Russian consulate in New York, as was Army T/Sgt
David Greenglass (?), recruited by his in-laws, the Rosenbergs.
Chris Steadman
In article <5iclcu$c...@gap.cco.caltech.edu>, xcdc...@aol.com
writes
>
>Hello all,
>
>I've got a running bet with a friend of mine. I believe I remember hearing
>somewhere (history class?) that Stalin had been told by the president of the
>existance of a "weapon of great damage
>potential" (or somesuch), to which Stalin was unsurprised because he had
>recieved information about the test detonation of the A-bomb days earlier and
>was able to reply that we should use it if we
>have it.
Hi Chance
All the below comes from .....
David Holloway "Stalin and the bomb: The Soviet Union and the Atomic
Energy, 1939-1956" Yale Uni Press (1994) isbn 0-300-06664-3
It is likely that Stalin had been informed of the date of the first test of the
A bomb as early as 10 July and so when informed (obliquely) of its
existence, by Truman, at Potsdam, on 24 July, he already knew of its
existence, that a test had successfully taken place and perhaps some
details of the effects of the weapon. Holloway cites his sources for this;
all are Soviet and include personal interviews as well as documentary
evidence. I can provide more details if you want them.
As to Stalin's reply, the story that he wished success in its use against
the Japanese may have been a fabrication by Truman. Two witnesses
to the conversation say that Stalin said little or nothing. One indicates
that he simply said "Thank you" the other that he simply nodded his head
and said nothing. Again more details are available if you want them.
Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to drop me an email if I can help further.
--
Chris Steadman
ch...@steadman.demon.co.uk
Please cite your sources.