Pre-Kursk Nazi-Soviet Negotiations

[username]

I read a passage somewhere once that suggested that the Soviets and the
Germans had some sort of communication or meeting in 1943 prior to the
battle of Kursk on possibly ending the war in the East (ie, a seperate
peace). If memory serves, the author indicated that Germany wanted to
retain what it had taken up to that point, and the Soviets would only agree
to a seperate peace on the old pre-war borders. Does anyone know if such a
conference/negotiations actually took place? Where, when etc.? Why on
earth would the Soviets want peace, when they were flush from their victory
at Stalingrad in February?

[Dave Gower]

username <user...@cariboo.bc.ca> wrote in message
news:3957...@news.cariboo.bc.ca...

> Why on earth would the Soviets want peace, when they were flush from their
victory
> at Stalingrad in February?

There were no "negotiations" although communications at various levels took
place all during the war. Some were intended to confuse the enemy, others
may have been attempts to probe for information. A few may have had a little
bit of sincerity. The war was taking a terrible toll, after all.

As to the question of why the Soviets might want to negotiate after
Stalingrad, this presumes that their victory had put them in a war-winning
situation. That was hardly the case. Yes the Germans lost the entire 6th
Army, much of the 4th, and the bulk of the forces of their Italian,
Hungarian and Rumanian allies. But the Soviets had also sustained heavy
losses. Much of this occurred during the battle for Kharkov in March 1943,
when Manstein rescued the situation for the Germans.

In early 1943 victory over the Axis was only a dream for the future. The
German U-boats were still threatening to drive allied shipping from the
Atlantic, which would have isolated the American forces from Europe. The
strategic bombing campaign over Germany was proving expensive and
disappointingly unproductive. In the air the newly-introduced FW190 was
taking a terrible toll on all fronts. The Mk4 long-barrel and Tiger had
eliminated Soviet tank superiority. The Soviet forces were still struggling
to produce a new generation of competent officers to replace the almost
complete turnover caused by the disasters of 41-42.

So it was reasonable to explore any bloodless options that might free them
of the German yoke. Of course the momentum of war was too great to allow
this to happen.

[Jeff]

Even while Stalingrad was still raging, in Dec '42, Stalin was, through the
Soviet embassy in Sweden, making it known that he was willing to negotiate a
separate peace. According to John Lukacs (in The Hitler of History) the most
significant feelers were in Sept '43.

Lukacs makes the case that Stalin's purpose was to let word of the contacts
leak to the West in order to blackmail his Allies. (That is, more concessions
to the USSR to maintain the Grand Alliance.)

[Glenn A. Steinberg]

username wrote:

> I read a passage somewhere once that suggested that the Soviets and the
> Germans had some sort of communication or meeting in 1943 prior to the battle
> of Kursk on possibly ending the war in the East (ie, a seperate peace). If
> memory serves, the author indicated that Germany wanted to retain what it had
> taken up to that point, and the Soviets would only agree to a seperate peace
> on the old pre-war borders. Does anyone know if such a

> conference/negotiations actually took place? Where, when etc.? Why on earth

> would the Soviets want peace, when they were flush from their victory at
> Stalingrad in February?

First, anything can happen in war. In July 1943, the Germans were still within
a fairly short distance of Moscow and had control of a fairly large chunk of
some of the best real estate in the Soviet Union. If you didn't have the
ethical scruples of the Anglo-Americans, wouldn't you consider making a
separate peace in order to get out of further fighting, especially when you
could then sit back and watch the capitalist and fascist swine destroy one
another on the western front? Why on earth would Stalin consider himself
obligated to continue fighting Germany one day longer than absolutely
necessary?

In terms of Soviet peace feelers in 1943, you need to find information on Dr.
Peter Kleist and also information on the Free Germany Committee.

Look for

Kleist, Peter. The European Tragedy. Isle of Man: Times Press and Anthony
Gibbs & Phillips, 1965.

Klemperer, Klemens von. German Resistance against Hitler: The Search for
Allies Abroad, 1938-1945. Oxford: Clarendon, 1992.

Merson, Allan. Communist Resistance in Nazi Germany. London: Lawrence and
Wishart, 1985.

As for terms, according to Kleist, Stalin was offering a return to 1940 borders
-- which would essentially give the Baltic states to Germany and would give
Bessarabia back to Romania. Kleist met with Soviet agents in Sweden in June
and September 1943.

Hitler, however, wasn't interested in *any* terms whatsoever. He forbade
Ribbentrop to consider or pursue any of Kleist's contacts.