Saving Private Ryan ?
Robert. Thomson
"bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
weapon?
Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure? (Try to
fire it through the opening).
In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
Cheers
Robert Thomson
Rob Davis
>During the assault on the beach they bring forth a weapon called a
>"bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
>weapon?
It's a Bangalore Torpedo, a series of extendable tubes fitted with
explosive. They are progressively extended from a safe point under an
enemy obstruction or strong point, and detonated.
=====================
Rob Davis MSc MIAP
Telford Shropshire UK
Jeff Heidman
> During the assault on the beach they bring forth a weapon called a
> "bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
> weapon?
Bangalore. Basically, a series of metal tubes filled with explosives. You fit
them together and shove them under an obstacle (like razor wire) and detonate
them in order to blow a hole in the wire.
> Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
> bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure? (Try to
> fire it through the opening).
Sure, you could try. Unfortunately, a bazooka has a relatively short range,
and is not real accurate anyway. trying to fire one through the opening of a
pillbox under fire would be an exercise in futility unless you were *real*
close. And if you were that close a machine gun would do a better job
anyway...
> In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
> Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
They tried, with some limited success. The problem is that the bunkers could
take a rather large shell without permanent damage, and were too well
concealed or presented too small a target for effective bombing from the air.
Plus, the allies did not want to advertise where they were invading, so they
could not start softening up the beaches too early. Once the invasion was
under way, great efforts were taken to take out fixed fortifications by direct
naval gunfire, but in many cases this just was not effective due to accuracy
limitations of large calibre naval guns. It is not just a matter of hitting
the target, it is a matter of hitting the target probably obscured by smoke
while making certain you do not drop a salvo of 15" shells on the beach where
your troops are trying to get ashore...
Jeff Heidman
Andy O'Neill
Thomson <thom...@nbnet.nb.ca> writes
>During the assault on the beach they bring forth a weapon called a
>"bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that weapon?
Bangalore torpedo. This question has been asked previously, you can
find the answers archived on www.deja.com. Not a bad idea to try there
prior to posting and perhapss get your answers quicker.
>Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
>bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure?
Yes.
>(Try to fire it through the opening).
Tricky. More effective against houses - bigger target.
Flamethrowers and charges for attacking bunkers.
>In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
>Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
SPR is hollywood not history, don't confuse the two. Whilst they
didn't have heroes leaping about with an smg in each hand, some of the
film is about as accurate. If you want to learn about D-Day, nip down
the library and get hold of a few books. IIRC there have been a number
of books recommended previously. As above, see deja.
Large structures were indeed targeted prior to the assault.
Some they hit, some they missed.
Andy O'Neill
www.l-25.demon.co.uk/index.htm
Liverpool Wargames Association
www.l-25.demon.co.uk/LWA.htm
J.A.K
>"bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
>weapon?
>
wire, mines, etc). I believe it (once again:)) was a weapon which got named
after a city in India.
-J-
wil...@hotmail.com
<thom...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>During the assault on the beach they bring forth a weapon called a
>"bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
>weapon?
>
I just saw the movie again last night. Bangalore Torpedos were an
anti-barbed wire weapon that also dug large holes when they expoloded.
>Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
>bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure? (Try to
>fire it through the opening).
>
Yes, but you need to hit the opening first. Also, the bazooka round
was intended to penetrate metal armour & I am not sure how effective
it would have been if it went through the bunker opening & hit the
back wall.
>In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
>Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
>
They tried of course, but on Omaha in particular, they were not very
successful.
>Cheers
>
>Robert Thomson
Bill Murphy
History, n. An account mostly false, of events mostly unimportant,
which are brought about by rulers mostly knaves, and soldiers mostly
fools. - Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary
Lawrence Dillard
news:et9K4.12432$oQ4.2...@sodalite.nbnet.nb.ca...
> During the assault on the beach they bring forth a weapon called a
> "bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that weapon?
The weapon was the so-called "Bangalore torpedo", which was a series of
connectable sections of pipe, each section containing a charge of high
explosives. When connected in series, the device was rigid enough to be
manhandled into position, or pounded through a width of sand under an
obstruction, while minimizing the exposure of its users to enemy action. Its
use during WWII was apparently very rare.
> Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
> bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure? (Try to
> fire it through the opening).
The bazooka was actually a rocket launcher assembly and rocket; the rocket's
warhead featured a shaped or contoured charge which is considered ideal for
punching a hole through armor, reinforced concrete, packed earth, etc.
The bazooka contrasts with conventional armor-piercing modalities in that it
does not rely on kinetic energy (i.e., pushing a dense penetrator mass at
high velocity) to achieve its object.
The secret lay in making the warhead diameter sufficiently large as to be
able to defeat the thickness of the material intended to be penetrated. The
blast of the warhead's detonation is "focussed" by the shape of the charge,
creating a hot, intense jet of flame, not in effect unlike a welder's
torch, but moving at very high speed. Sadly, the standard US Bazooka for
most of WWII had a diameter of only 2.36" (57mm); very late in the war, the
US Army moved to a "Super Bazooka" of 3.5" (88.9mm), which was far more
effective.
The impulse of the blast and detonation also causes particles of the
penetrated material to be carried along with the jet at much the same speed.
Anyone or anything inside the target penetrated by such a round will
encounter flame hot enough to ignite flammable materiel and flakes and
flakes and smaller particles moving at high enough velocities to penetrate
flesh and bone as it richochets around inside.
> In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
> Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
They tried, indeed, employing a combination of aerial bombardment and naval
gunfire to either collapse the structures, or, failing that (more than
likely) severely injuring the occupants via compression shock. At some
beaches at Normandy, this combination worked satisfactorily; at others,
either the bombing failed to hit the intended targets, and the naval gunfire
was too short in duration to destroy the bunkers.
Thanks for the post.
ldil...@EnterAct.com
Yau-ming Chiam
obstacles. When it explodes the blast goes sideways and blast away the wire.
Well, at least that's what they told us at BMT.
Cheers,
YM
Nick Cooper
<thom...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>During the assault on the beach they bring forth a weapon called a
>"bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
>weapon?
It was a "Bangalor [sp.?] Torpedo" - a length of steel piping packed
with explosive. A number could be joined together (as in the film)
and pushed under obstacles before being ignited.
>Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
>bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure? (Try to
>fire it through the opening).
The charge of a Bazooka rocket would be virtually useless against the
structure of most bunkers/emplacements, and the chances of hitting the
slit at anything other than point blank range would have been pretty
much impossible.
>In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
>Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
Although large on the ground, they weren't very easy to hit from the
air for a variety of reasons. The German battery at the Pointe-du-Hoc
was pretty much plastered, but still took the ground troops many hours
to subdue on D-Day:
http://freespace.virgin.net/nick.cooper/personal/lifrance/lifday05.htm
--
Nick Cooper
Two weeks in Normandy, the Somme & Flanders/Simon the Cat of 'HMS
Amethyst': http://freespace.virgin.net/nick.cooper/personal
John Lansford
>During the assault on the beach they bring forth a weapon called a
>"bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
>weapon?
It was a section of explosive that were joined together to make one
long piece. It was then thrown or shoved under a wire entanglement or
minefield and detonated. The explosion would blow a hole in the wire
or (sometimes) clear the minefield, allowing the infantry to pass
safely. It was a "bangalore torpedo" for the proper name.
>Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
>bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure? (Try to
>fire it through the opening).
Some bazookas were used like this, but the initial ones had a very
short range and you had to stand up to fire them. That was a bad idea
on Omaha Beach that day. The regular infantrymen were not expected to
be doing anything but mopping up after the tanks and assault troops
had already dealt with the defenses, but they were forced to improvise
when the tanks never made it to the beach and the assault troops were
massacred in the first waves.
>In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
>Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
They did try. Many of the bunkers were proof against anything but a
direct hit by a battleship's main guns firing AP shells. One bunker
was destroyed by a light cruiser firing shells right through the
gunport, but most of the massive concrete structures had to be taken
the old fashioned way; by infantry assault.
However, many of the German defense positions were not those big
concrete fortifications. Lots of them were like the MG nest made out
of sandbags.
John Lansford
The unofficial I-26 Construction Webpage:
http://users.vnet.net/lansford/a10/
Colin Radford
<ldil...@enteract.com> wrote:
>The bazooka was actually a rocket launcher assembly and rocket; the rocket's
This thread just got me thinking, why was the bazooka so called?
Anybody know?
thanks
Colin
Lawrence Dillard
"Robert. Thomson" <thom...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:et9K4.12432$oQ4.2...@sodalite.nbnet.nb.ca...
> "bangalier". Sorry the spelling is bad on this but just what is that
> weapon?
The weapon was the so-called "Bangalore torpedo", which was a series of
connectable sections of pipe, each section containing a charge of high
explosives. When connected in series, the device was rigid enough to be
manhandled into position, or pounded through a width of sand under an
obstruction, while minimizing the exposure of its users to enemy action.
Its
use during WWII was apparently very rare.
>
> Another thing that I wonder about is the lack of a weapon to assault
> bunkers. Couldn't a Bazooka be used against a fixed structure? (Try to
> fire it through the opening).
COMMENT
The bazooka was actually a rocket launcher assembly and rocket; the
rocket's
warhead featured a shaped or contoured charge which is considered ideal for
punching a hole through armor, reinforced concrete, packed earth, etc.
The bazooka contrasts with conventional armor-piercing modalities in that
it
does not rely on kinetic energy (i.e., pushing a dense penetrator mass at
high velocity) to achieve its object.
The secret lay in making the warhead diameter sufficiently large as to be
able to defeat the thickness of the material intended to be penetrated.
The
blast of the warhead's detonation is "focussed" by the shape of the charge,
creating a hot, intense jet of flame, not in effect unlike a welder's
torch, but moving at very high speed. Sadly, the standard US Bazooka for
most of WWII had a diameter of only 2.36" (57mm); very late in the war, the
US Army moved to a "Super Bazooka" of 3.5" (88.9mm), which was far more
effective.
The impulse of the blast and detonation also causes particles of the
penetrated material to be carried along with the jet at much the same
speed.
Anyone or anything inside the target penetrated by such a round will
encounter flame hot enough to ignite flammable materiel and flakes and
flakes and smaller particles moving at high enough velocities to penetrate
flesh and bone as it richochets around inside.
END COMMENT
> In addition the German bunkers depicted on the show were large structures.
> Wouldn't the Allies try to destroy these before the assault?
COMMENT
They tried, indeed, employing a combination of aerial bombardment and naval
gunfire to either collapse the structures, or, failing that (more than
likely) severely injuring the occupants via compression shock. At some
beaches at Normandy, this combination worked satisfactorily; at others,
either the bombing failed to hit the intended targets, and the naval
gunfire
was too short in duration to destroy the bunkers.
END COMMENT
Thanks for the post.
ldil...@EnterAct.com
> Cheers
>
> Robert Thomson
Cub driver
>This thread just got me thinking, why was the bazooka so called?
There was a notable bubble gum with that name. As I recall it was
square, hefty, pink, wrapped in waxy pink label, and cost a penny.
As for the bangalore torpedo, it is I believe named for the town that
is now the Silicon Valley of India.
- Dan Ford
Nothing New About Death: http://danford.net
TSBench
>>This thread just got me thinking, why was the bazooka so called?>>>
Because of its resemblance to a novelty musical instrument used by a popular
performer, who referred to his instrument as the 'bazooka.'
I can probably find out the name of the performer (Bob? Something-or-other) if
anyone is really interested.
Regards,
TSB
Bill Walker...Producer and Cohost of The Shooting Bench radio
program....General Manager, WDIS-Radio, Norfolk, Massachusetts.
Jim Powers
Colin Radford wrote in message <>This thread just got me thinking, why was
the bazooka so called?
>
The bazooka was so named because of its resemblance to a musical instrument
of the same name, that was invented and played by Bob Burns, a popular
radio
and film comedian during WWII.
Athos
bazooka against the German tank that they wanted to immobilize instead
of the "sticky" bombs?
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*
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Andy O'Neill
<bl...@itl.net> writes
>This thread just got me thinking, why was the bazooka so called?
US comic used to perform with a strange gizmo which he called a bazooka.
JCDrews
the
weapon, because of its shape.
The weapon was named after a gag musical instrument -- something like a
slide
trombone merged with length of downspout pipe -- that was part of a comedy
routine associated with one of the Big Bands. I do not recall the name of
the
comedian or band.
David Thornley
Colin Radford <bl...@itl.net> wrote:
>On 18 Apr 2000 12:10:11 -0700, "Lawrence Dillard"
><ldil...@enteract.com> wrote:
>
>
>
who played a silly musical instrument he called a bazooka, and which
looked rather like the rocket launcher. I don't know how this relates
to Bazooka bubble gum, which I bought in fairly large quantities as
a child, which had short comic strips about "Bazooka Joe" (IIRC)
printed on the inside of the wrapper.
--
David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask.
da...@thornley.net | If you don't, flee.
http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-
Jerry Steiger
recall the name of the musician who invented it; perhaps someone else will
know.
Miktb
>bazooka against the German tank that they wanted to immobilize instead
>of the "sticky" bombs?
It seems to me that I recall that they were short of everything except demo.
When they were planning the defense the 101st Corporal noted that they had
enough demo to blow the bridge two times over. That's when CPT Miller came up
with the idea for the sticky bombs. Once the tanks were in the side streets
some sort of close combat antitank field expedient probably makes more sense.
When you think about it, an AT rocket (bazooka) takes some time to arm itself,
and is best used with a little distance between itself and the firer. Miller
was makeing the best use of available resources. What I was wondering was why
they didn't use some of that TNT to make other field expedient AT devices such
as daisy chains, then cratering or rubbling the street after trapping the tank.
There was lots more that could have been done to prep the defense besides
sitting around listening to Edith Piaf. (Nice moment though)
Mike Burk
SockMonkey
characters in the comic strip "Lil Abner" played. Apparently it had
some physical resemblence.
Nick Cooper
wrote:
>>This thread just got me thinking, why was the bazooka so called?
>
>There was a notable bubble gum with that name. As I recall it was
>square, hefty, pink, wrapped in waxy pink label, and cost a penny.
I always understood that it was named after the large crude
trombone-like brass wind instrument played by a popular US (pre-war)
entertainer, although how _that_ was originally named is anybody's
guess.
ConvairDriver880
>why was the bazooka so called?>>>
>
>Because of its resemblance to a novelty musical instrument used by a popular
>performer, who referred to his instrument as the 'bazooka.'
That was probably Bob Burns, who was a comedian who played an instrument that
looked like a length of pipe. He called it a bazooka. Someone once told me
that bazooka is Dutch for bugle. True?