Operation Bagration
Olli Pajanen
german army group centre was destroyed in few weeks,is still one of the well
kept secrets of the war. Propably it was more fatal for Germany than
Stalingrad, Kursk or Normandy.
Could you recommend good books and websites.
Thanks
Olli
--
Sue
Bagration 1944
The destruction of Army Group Center
By Steven Zaloga
ISBN 1855324784
US Price $18.95
"Olli Pajanen" <Olli.P...@pp.htv.fi> wrote in message
news:9qf1bn$1964$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu...
--
Timo Nieminen
> It seems to me that the russian operation "Bagration" in, which the whole
> german army group centre was destroyed in few weeks,is still one of the
> well kept secrets of the war.
> Could you recommend good books and websites.
Short, but reasonable, is
Paul Adair
Hitler's Greatest Defeat : The Collapse of Army Group Centre, June 1944
I think this has been published a few times, looks like a recent cheap one
is by Cassell Academic, ISBN 030435449X.
Amazons stock this, if you can't get it locally.
--
Timo Nieminen - http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/nieminen.html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
--
Martin Rapier
<9qf1bn$1964$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
The Opsrey Campaign Series book 'Operation Bagration' is a good start.
It is worth bearing in mind that Bagration was only one a staged series of
offensives mounted along the entire Eastern Front in summer 1944,
commencing with the assault on Finland, then Army Group North, followed by
Bagration vs AGC and culminating in the Lvov-Sandomierz operation in the
Ukraine & the invasion of Rumania. The summer offensives are covered
decently in all the usual suspects - Albert Seatons 'Russo-German War
1941-45', Ericksons 'The Road to Berlin' and Glantz's 'When Titans
Clashed'. If anything the Lvov-Sandomierz op is more neglacted than
Bagration - odd really as that is where the huge summer 44 tank battles
were actually fought, Bagration was a walkover in comparison as the Germans
were expecting the main effort in the Ukraine.
Cheers
Martin
--
Dave Gower
"Olli Pajanen" <Olli.P...@pp.htv.fi> wrote in message
news:9qf1bn$1964$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> It seems to me that the russian operation "Bagration" in, which the whole
> german army group centre was destroyed in few weeks,is still one of the
well
> kept secrets of the war. Propably it was more fatal for Germany than
> Stalingrad, Kursk or Normandy.
I certainly disagree that it is in any way a "secret". But it was not a
turning point in the sense of these other battles. It was just another step
in the two-year Soviet drive to Berlin. No more important than other
campaigns of similar magnitude during this period. That may explain why it
is not talked about more.
--
W. Lydecker
books on the collapse of Army Group Center. Hitler,
afraid for the Ukraine, stripped AGC of panzers. There was little in
the
way of counterstrike capabilities.
Dussel
> german army group centre was destroyed in few weeks,is still one of the
well
> kept secrets of the war
No secret, more a matter of numbers. The Germans were massively
outnumbered
in material, especially artillery. The anglo- americans had also
invaded
france and tied up considerable reserves of what little germany had
left.
KWeiler854
Your quite right in thinking that the USSR's Operation Bragration was
the most
important offensive opertation launched on the eastern front by the
Red Army.
The major problem here in the west in appreciating and understanding
the
offensive is that it was overcome by the Normandy invasion, which was
much more
important to US interests as US forces were involved, whereas
Operation
Bragration was a purely Soviet offensive, albiet a very important
offensive to
the success of Operation Overlord.
The impact on the Whermacht was the most serious in the war on the
eastern
front. In all the previous losses the Germans were able to make good
their men
and material, either from new production, greater participation of
German
allies or via counteroffensives to revieve encircled forces. The
destruction
inflicted on German Army Groups North, Center and North Ukraine from
Bagration
was so extensive both in terms of men, material and territory and now
that the
Western Allies were heavily engaging the Whermacht in France, the
Germans could
no longer shift forces from east to west to make up losses in the
various
combat theaters. The losses inflicted by Bagration were permanent and
there
was nothing the German's could do but to retreat to the point where
the
Russians ran out of supplies and to establish a more defenseable line,
however
in August 1944 the line held by the Germans was almost tactically and
stretegically imnpossible to defend, with larges forces in Estonia,
Latvia and
northern Lithuania threatened by entrapement against the Baltic Sea.
I suggest the following books (all in English, I'm afraid) for more
information
on the offensive. There is much more information in Russian than any
other
language on this particular battle, however.
- Adair, P. "Hitler's Greatest Defeat: The Collapse of Army Group
Centre,
June 1944", Arms & Armour Press, 1994.
- Erickson, J. "The Road to Berlin", Weidenfeld & Nicolson, 1983.
- Zeimke, E. "Stalingrad to Berlin: The German Defeat in the East"
US
Government Printing Office, Washington, DC, 1967.
Good luck,
Ken Weiler
Sterling, Virginia
United States
Martin Rapier
<9qkp31$kvs$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
{snip}
> > It seems to me that the russian operation "Bagration" in, which the
whole
> I certainly disagree that it is in any way a "secret". But it was not a
> turning point in the sense of these other battles. It was just another
step
> in the two-year Soviet drive to Berlin. No more important than other
It was one of the first in which the Germans managed to lose an entire
Army
Group though (although Army Group B rapidly followed) in the West, and
could be viewed as a tuurning point in that sense - after all in 1943
they
were only losing whole Armies.
Cheers
Martin
Stuart Wilkes
> > It seems to me that the russian operation "Bagration" in, which the whole
> > german army group centre was destroyed in few weeks,is still one of the
> > well kept secrets of the war
> No secret, more a matter of numbers.
And subtle deception, and brilliant economy of force/concentration of
force, and good training, and good tactics, and superb operational
art, and superb strategy.
Apart from that, I agree it was all a matter of Soviet numerical
superiority.
> The Germans were massively outnumbered in material, especially artillery.
Which is why it was <so> helpful for the Germans to have transferred
56th Panzer Corps (with 33% of Army Group Center's artillery and 88%
of Army Group Center's tanks) to Army Group North Ukraine in response
to the Soviet deception plan ;)
> The anglo-americans had also invaded
> france and tied up considerable reserves of what little germany had left.
Reserves which would not have been where they were going to be needed,
since General Gehlen and Fremde Heer Ost had swallowed the Soviet
deception plan hook, line, and sinker.
Stuart Wilkes
--
Nils K Hammer
add "total intelligence". I haven't read the Red Orchestra
book lately, but it seemed to suggest that anti-nazis gave
massive amounts of intelligence to the soviets all along.
nils