Help with Knights Cross research
Jim Burnett
swords, and diamonds that my father brought home from W.W.II. I also have an
original silver Panzer Assault badge and an SS dagger.
Can anyone provide advise as to where I should start in researching who they
were awarded to, if this is even possible?
Any help would be appreciated.
Tomislav Haramincic
Hi Jim!
When I read your news flash, I was really surprised. If you really have an
original Knight's Cross with Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds, you are in
possession of a thing that has not only high material worth, but also huge
historical. The Knight's Cross with Oakleaves, Swords and Diamonds was the
highest German award during the WW2, with one exception. The same award,
only in gold, was given to the famous Stuka pilot Hans-Ulrich Rudel. All
other Knight's Crosses are made of silver. The Knight's Cross was awarded
only 27 times.
I have to add that the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross was actually the
highest award, but I don't consider it more valuable, because the Knight's
Cross with O,S&D was awarded for ultimate bravery in the face of the enemy
and the Grand Cross of the Iron Cross was given only to Goering for his
successful command of the Luftwaffe during the campaigns in France and the
Low Countries in 1940.
Here are some details that might help you in identifying your Knight's Cross
with O,S&D:
(Note that the Knight's Cross with O,S&D is an ordinal Knight's Cross, only
with a different decorated suspension loop)
1) The Knight's Cross measures 48.2mm to 48.8mm across the frame and is
suspended from a 45mm neck ribbon of black, white, red, white, black
material (a lot of original Knight's Cross ribbon has a orange cast to the
red section of the ribbon).
2) The Knight's Cross is made of real silver and the silver content of real
Knight's Crosses range from 800, 900, to 935 silver (Knight's Crosses found
with a silver content mark 925 are to be viewed with much suspicion).The
content marks can be found on the reverse of all upper frames of all
original pieces.
3) In addition to the silver content number, maker codes can sometimes be
found on the reverses of rarer crosses. Knight's Crosses will bear the
markings 800 2(*10), 800 L/12(*11) (C.E. Juncker Berlin), 935 4(*12)
(Steinhauer and Lueck), 800 21(*13) (Gebr. Godet & Co.), or 800 65(*14)
(Klein & Quenzer A.G.).
4) Original Knights Crosses will have a Swastika that comes up even with the
beaded edge of the frame. Crosses that have Swastikas that fall below the
beaded frame, should be viewed with suspicion.
5) Knight's Crosses bearing a 2 maker mark should have a lazy 2. What this
means is that the 2 is laying on it's side. A Knight's Cross with a vertical
2 should be viewed as a reproduction.
6) It should be noted that post-war versions of the Knights Cross
manufactured by the firm C.E. Juncker Berlin are also hallmarked L/12. The
only way to tell the difference between a war-time and a post-war piece, is
that original war-time examples hallmarked 2 or L/12 have a design flaw in
the beaded edge of the frame. Where the beaded edge meets the Swastika, a
extra line is formed in the corners of the frame. If you could put these
lines together they would form a cross-hatch effect. It would look like this
(#), but only straighter. Post-war made crosses don't have this flaw.
7) Knight's Crosses bearing the hallmark 935 4 are unusual in the fact that
the maker mark is stamped upside down. The 4 mark is stamped in incuse
relief. That means the 4 is raised out of a stamped depression. The ribbon
loop of these crosses will be marked 935 or in some cases 900.
8) The 800 hallmark on this cross is also stamped in incuse relief, but it
is right side up not upside down. The 21 hallmark is simply stamped into the
upper reverse frame on the right side.
And at the end here is the list of the 27 men who received the Knight's
Cross with O,S&D, in historical order and dates:
1. Werner Mvlders 7.16.41
2. Adolf Galland 1.28.42
3. Gordon M Gollob 8.30.42
4. Hans-Joachim Marseille 9.4.42
5. Hermann Graf 9.16.42
6. Erwin Rommel 3.11.42
7. Wolfgang L|th 8.11.43
8. Walter Nowotny 10.20.43
9. Adelbert Schulz 12.14.44
10. Hans-Ulrich Rudel 3.29.44
11. Hyazinth Graf Strachwitz 4.15.44
12. Herbert Otto Gille 4.19.44
13. Hans Hube 4.20.44
14. Albert Kesselring 7.19.44
15. Helmuth Lent 7.31.44
16. Sepp Dietrich 8.6.44
17. Walter Model 8.17.44
18. Erich Hartmann 8.25.44
19. Hermann Balck 8.31.44
20. Gerhard Ramcke 9.20.44
21. Wolfgang Schnaufer 10.16.44
22. Albercht Brandi 11.24.44
23. Ferdinand Schvrner 1.1.45
24. Hasso von Manteuffel 2.18.45
25. Theodor Tolsdorf 3.18.45
26. Dr.Karl Mauss 4.15.45
27. Dietrich von Saucken 5.8.45
I hope this will help. It would be nice if you would told us how, where and
when did your father get this Knight's Cross with Oakleavs, Sword and
Diamonds. If you have some pictures of it please send it to me. I would like
to see a real Knight's Cross with Oakleavs, Sword and Diamonds.
Best regards, Tomislav
HCALTMANN
You might be better off to leave well enough alone. Your father no doubt
obtained these items illegally. If I recall correctly, the Geneva Convention
prohibits the taking of decorations from the enemy. There might be heirs
around who would love to have them back and might sue, and lawyers to help
them. It cuts both ways: The Germans looted their enemies, and so did their
enemies loot them. -- Heinz
HeinzA -- HCAl...@aol.com (Heinz Altmann)
"As hard as I try to be sensitive and politically correct, I can't avoid
bumping my way into boorish opinions, thus offending those who are truly
enlightened." - Mike Royko
bsha...@orednet.org
"Jim Burnett" <oki...@harborside.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> I have an original, (not reproduction), Knights Cross with oak leaves,
> swords, and diamonds that my father brought home from W.W.II. I also have an
> original silver Panzer Assault badge and an SS dagger.
> Can anyone provide advise as to where I should start in researching who they
> were awarded to, if this is even possible?
> Any help would be appreciated.
Well, the RK with oak leaves, swords and diamonds was only awarded to 27
recipents during the entire war so you're not looking at a very long
list.
Still, large numbers of Third Reich awards, including the RK in its various
orders, were produced in Germany during the post-war period - sometimes
by the original manufacturers from the original dies. While these
reproductions are not valueless, they ARE reproductions and not originals.
And lots of these reproductions ended up being sold or bartered to Allied
soldiers in the generally war-ravaged economy of post-war Germany - doubtless
with good stories to establish the medals' "bonafides" and increase the
value - in money, cigarettes, or canned food - a bit.
While the actually numbers of "real" RKs with oak leaves, swords and
diamonds produced exceeds the 27 actual recipients, "real" medals
are extremely rare - no more than a hundred and a half at most were
made and not all survive. The chances that yours is "not a reproduction"
are not particularly high.
Cheers and all,
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http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Jim Burnett
the end of the war and if he, (like hundreds of other G.I.'s) happened to
"liberate" a few war trophies, then so be it.
I don't recall the 101st Airborne, (his unit during the war), running any
concentration camps, maintaining any gas chambers, pulling gold teeth from
their victims, or "relocating" millions.
I have great respect for the German people and the German soldier of W.W.II.
The Wermacht and Waffen-SS were some of the finest fighting men that ever
graced the battlefield, but to say that my father did something illegal????
Please! I won't even dignify that by defending his actions.
HCALTMANN wrote in message <76efvb$uo4$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
>From: "Jim Burnett" oki...@harborside.com:
>
>>I have an original, (not reproduction), Knights Cross with oak leaves,
>>swords, and diamonds that my father brought home from W.W.II. I also have
an
>>original silver Panzer Assault badge and an SS dagger.
>>
>>Can anyone provide advise as to where I should start in researching who
they
>>were awarded to, if this is even possible?
>
Mike Fester
: Thank you for your advise, but my father fought all the way from Normandy to
: the end of the war and if he, (like hundreds of other G.I.'s) happened to
: "liberate" a few war trophies, then so be it.
Yeah, it's part of an old, time-honored tradition.
: I don't recall the 101st Airborne, (his unit during the war), running any
: concentration camps, maintaining any gas chambers, pulling gold teeth from
: their victims, or "relocating" millions.
The person from whom this medal was "liberated" didn't do any of that either,
if the description is accurate.
: I have great respect for the German people and the German soldier of W.W.II.
: The Wermacht and Waffen-SS were some of the finest fighting men that ever
: graced the battlefield, but to say that my father did something illegal????
Uh, there are international treaties, to which the US is signatory, that
say that very thing.
: Please! I won't even dignify that by defending his actions.
Uh, you just did.
Mike (remove "@eyrie.org" to reply)
George Hardy
<oki...@harborside.comNOSPAM> says:
>
>Thank you for your advise, but my father fought all the way from
>Normandy to the end of the war and if he, (like hundreds of other
>G.I.'s) happened to "liberate" a few war trophies, then so be it.
Thank you for your clear explanation of why looting and pillage
are acceptable to Americans, as long as we are the only ones
allowed to do it. Yes, we did "liberate" a lot. America is
so proud of its ability to "liberate" that we required the
German government pay for the return of 10C illuminated manuscripts
from Aachen.
>but to say that my father did something illegal????
>Please! I won't even dignify that by defending his actions.
You might have asked how he got it. He might not have told you,
though. Heinz was correct that taking decorations was a violation
of the Geneva Convention. But, it was REQUIRED by the US occupation
government before any POW (OK, individual of the DEF) was released.
Treaty obligations are of no consequence to those who support
"liberation", as you seem to do. Are pictures off of the wall of
a German house "war trophies"? War trophies, it seems clear, are
military issue property, which were still (unlike medals) owned
by the military.
Of course, one could starve a person until he "sold" the medal.
There has recent discussion of the "sale" of art by Jews as being
coerced. That discussion would have more legitimacy if it included
other examples of coerced sales.
GFH
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go...@my-dejanews.com
"Jim Burnett" <oki...@harborside.comNOSPAM> wrote:
> swords, and diamonds that my father brought home from W.W.II. I also have an
> original silver Panzer Assault badge and an SS dagger.
>
> Can anyone provide advise as to where I should start in researching who they
> were awarded to, if this is even possible?
If you really have ORIGINAL Knight Cross with leaves/swords/diamonds you are
*Extrimely Lucky*!
It costs A LOT ($*00.000)! It's very rare. There were 27 known recipients:
Werner Molders
Adolf Galland
Gordon Gollob
Hans-Joachim Marseilles
Herman Graf
Erwin Rommel
Wolfgang Luth
Walter Nowotny
Adalbert Schulz
Hans-Ulrich Rudel
Hyazinth Strachwitz
Herbert Gille
Hans Hube
Albert Kesselring
Helmut Lent
Joseph Deitrich
Walter Model
Erich Hartmann
Hermann Balck
Bernhard-Hermann Ramcke
Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer
Albrecht Brandi
Ferdinand Schorner
Hasso von Manteuffel
Theodor Tolsdorff
Dr Karl Mauss
Dietrich von Saucken
Most of them are Luftwaffe aces and Hight Stuff War Lords.
I think you could trace it for sure, especially if you know when and how your
father get it. You should apply to some established expert or Auction House.
As for Panzer Bage (*not* numbered 25, 50, 75 or 100) - this one was very
common (cost about $60) and can't be traced. Same for the dagger (about $150-
400 depending on condition).
Alix V. Shelest
Janne Nilsson
liberated by his enemies Im pretty sure you would have an different attitude
about this. Even as it was common for soldiers to take trophies like that
doesnt nearly at all justify it in any way. As this is a very rare
decoration were talking about makes it even more inmoral in my opinion.
Jim Burnett skrev i meddelandet <76g9n2$1010$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>...
>Thank you for your advise, but my father fought all the way from Normandy
to
>the end of the war and if he, (like hundreds of other G.I.'s) happened to
>"liberate" a few war trophies, then so be it.
>I don't recall the 101st Airborne, (his unit during the war), running any
>concentration camps, maintaining any gas chambers, pulling gold teeth from
>their victims, or "relocating" millions.
>I have great respect for the German people and the German soldier of
W.W.II.
>The Wermacht and Waffen-SS were some of the finest fighting men that ever
>graced the battlefield, but to say that my father did something illegal????
Jim Burnett
The Panzer Assault Badge is not numbered. I appreciate those who helped.
Based on the hostile responses, I won't be asking for any more help on this
topic.
go...@my-dejanews.com wrote in message <76gnla$o...@dgs.dgsys.com>...
HCALTMANN
>Thank you for your advise, but my father fought all the way from Normandy
>to the end of the war and if he, (like hundreds of other G.I.'s) happened
>to "liberate" a few war trophies, then so be it.
Yes, so be it. My point: Soldiers on both sides "liberated" things. I
don't blame your father. After all, he was entitled to more than his pay.
From time immemorial, warriors have been entitled to the spoils of war.
But after 1909, when the Geneva Convention was signed, that became
illegal. That doesn't mean it didn't happen any more. Germans, Swiss,
probably others are taken to court today for "liberating" items from Jews
or profiting from such "liberations." My point: Don't get yourself in a
position where both your father's memory and you may get hurt in court.
By the way,
>concentration camps, maintaining any gas chambers, pulling gold teeth from
>their victims, or "relocating" millions
has nothing to do with it. Or are you saying that, since these things
happened, your father was entitled to steal, if that is what he did?
May the New Year be good to you -- Heinz
Tim Watkins
> Well if your fathers Knights Cross with all the glitter upon had been
> liberated by his enemies Im pretty sure you would have an different
> attitude about this. ...As this is a very rare decoration were talking
> about makes it even more inmoral in my opinion.
Heinz Altmann <hcal...@aol.com> also wrote:
> ...Your father no doubt obtained these things illegally. ...the Geneva
> Convention prohibits the taking of decorations from the enemy. ...
Jim Burnett <oki...@harborside.comNOSPAM> had inquired:
> I have an original, ...Knights Cross with oak leaves, swords, and
> diamonds that my father brought home from W.W.II. ...
> Can anyone provide advise as to where I should start in researching
> who they were awarded to, if this is even possible?
It appears that posters writing in this thread made the assumption that
Jim Burnett's father "liberated" these medals and trophies from Germans
without their permission or knowledge. As we know nothing about the
facts surrounding the possession of these artifacts, I think we might
want to consider a few questions. In regards to the Knights Cross (or
any other medal for that matter):
1) Was the medal in possession of a German POW, taken prisoner by the
101st Airborne, perhaps trading for food or cigarettes with an MP? In
December of 1944, in and around the confusion of Bastogne, what was the
worth of a German medal compared to a carton of American cigarettes?
2) Was the medal in possession of another GI trading for something Jim
Burnett's father might have had? Would the value of the medal in
December of 1944 or by May 2, 1945 be the same in 1998 or 1999? Would
the GI possessor even know what the medal was, or that only 27 Knight's
Crosses with oak leaves, swords, and diamonds were awarded by Germany?
Stories abound of Russians and Americans at Torgau on the Elbe River
trading watches, campaign ribbons, shoulder patches, etc. with each
other. Would the GI turn down the trade because it violated the Geneva
Convention? Or would he turn it in to his CO for that reason? Would the
GI think the CO might keep it for himself? Let's consider the realities
here.
3) If the recipient was personally awarded the Knights Cross by Hitler,
did the recipient have any respect for Hitler and the way the east and
west front was being conducted by AH by, say, March of 1945? Would he
even want the medal? One recalls the story of Galland when awarded a
medal and, when Goering blaimed the failure to win the BoB on the
Luftwaffe fighter corps, Galland ripped off the medal and threw it on a
table in front of Goering. Galland refused to wear any medals until long
after that incident.
As you can see, many possibilities here. I've only touched on a few.
I'm not condoning the taking of any war souvenirs from the enemy. I'm
reminded of the WW II slogan "Japan fought for her Emperor, Germany
fought for her Fuehrer, Britain fought for her King, and the Americans
fought for Souvenirs". I don't mean to make light of the situation, but
the taking of war artifacts happened and it's a fact. I know that
doesn't make it right. The GI that saw four of his buddies on fire blown
out of a tank, then opened fire on the German TD and then recovered a war
souvenir from the TD crew, would not be thinking about the articles
contained in the Geneva Convention. Is he thinking about the immorality
of taking a souvenir after he has lost four buddies? He's probably
still hunkered down in a foxhole, trying to keep his butt from getting
shot up. And, fifty five years later with this souvenir on his mantle,
the GI looks at the souvenir and tears come to his eyes when he thinks
about the four buddies with whom he went through boot camp and half of
Europe. And he's thinking about the fact that he came back and they
didn't.
The taking of some war souvenirs, IMHO, pales in comparison to the fact
that some 55 million people lost their lives in the most bloody conflict
known to man. Let's not overlook the big picture here.
Just my $.02 worth.
Tim Watkins
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HCALTMANN
distinguish between GIs taking war souvenirs and Germans killing, directly or
indirectly, 55 million people:
>The taking of some war souvenirs, IMHO, >pales in comparison to the fact
>that some 55 million people lost their lives in >the most bloody conflict
>known to man. Let's not overlook the big >picture here.
My dear Watkins, I can make this distinction. My point was, and still is, and
it is the only point, that this medal has very high value, there having been
only some two dozen issued. It may be considered, if not an object of art,
then one of history. I have no doubt that it had considerable monetary value
then, and that it is even more valuable today.
This being the case, I advised the "owner" not to push his researches too
publicly, because there are lawyers around who would happily assist the true
owner, or his heirs, to regain their stolen (absconded, liberated, whatever)
property. I did not say that the "owner's" grandfather was the thief.
This has nothing to do with 55 million dead.
casita
have an original, (not reproduction), Knights Cross with oak leaves,
swords, and diamonds that my father brought home from W.W.II. I also
have an original silver Panzer Assault badge and an SS dagger.
Jim: I am not an expert on Military Law, but do you think it is moral
to strip a dead or captured enemy of his honourably won medals? Yes, I
know, others did it and the good guys won and if you can get away
with it why not and it was a long time ago and all that loot must be
worth a lot of money to collectors. The decent thing would be to
return it to the German government representative in your area.
HCALTMANN
A year ago, I met an old man, older than I. He had been a mate on an American
destroyer. That ship sank a German submarine in 1943. There were survivors.
They were taken aboard the destroyer One of the survivors, an officer, was put
in the care of my friend. The officer died the next day. My friend took his
wedding ring from the dead man's finger.
Tim Watkins
> Tim Watkins is disturbed because I apparently could not distinguish
> between GIs taking war souvenirs and Germans killing, directly or
> indirectly, 55 million people: ...
Heinz, I respect the fact that you were in the German Armed Forces during
WW II, and I know you were wounded and taken captive by the Americans,
and I also am aware that many on this NG have attacked the present-day
Germans or persons of German ancestry for atrocities that occurred during
the war. And I commend you for defending the country of your origin.
But I think you are being a bit defensive here; I did not blame the
deaths of 55 million people on the Germans, either directly or
indirectly. My statement in the previous post was, to quote: "The taking
of some war souvenirs, IMHO, pales in comparison to the fact that some 55
million people lost their lives in the most bloody conflict known to man.
Let's not overlook the big picture here." That statement says nothing
about Germans being responsible for the 55 million dead. The 55 million
people killed during WW II would include the millions of German Wehrmacht
and German civilians alike that perished in the war.
> ...I did not say that the "owner's" grandfather was a thief.
Nobody is accusing anybody of being a thief. Heinz, my read on your post
was that it appeared that you and others had concluded that there was an
illegality involved by Jim's father (not grandfather). To quote your
post of 31 December 1998:
> ...Your father no doubt obtained these items illegally. If I recall
> correctly, the Geneva Convention prohibits the taking of decorations
> from the enemy.
The reference to the Geneva Convention is no doubt quite true. But what
I was trying to establish, through a couple of my points, was that
perhaps Jim's father had come into possession of this medal through a
trade with a German POW that was more interested in some extra food or a
carton of cigarettes than a German medal. Or the medal had been traded
to him by another GI trading for something of value Jim's father had in
his possession. If the medal is traded or given away by a German to a
GI, or a Russian to a GI at Torgau on the Elbe, is this a violation of
the Geneva Convention?
> ...My point was, and still is, and it is the only point, that this
> medal has very high value, ...
In reading your post of 31 Dec 98 and 4 Jan 99, it would appear that you
made three points:
1) That Jim's father no doubt obtained these items illegally;
2) That the medal has very high value; and
3) Referring below to a sentence in your last post:
> ...I advised the "owner" not to push his researches too publicly,
> because there are lawyers around who would happily assist the
> true owner, or his heirs, to regain their stolen...property. ...
I would disagree with the first point you made, and agree with the second
and third points. As to the second point, if the Knights Cross medal is
a copy and not original, then it is "caveat emptor", which then would
make the third point a mute one.
> This has nothing to do with 55 million people dead.
True; but do we quibble over the possession of some souvenirs taken
during WW II when, in the grander scale of things to consider and
remember, 55 million people perished in that conflict?
Kennedy How
> The reference to the Geneva Convention is no doubt quite true. But what
> I was trying to establish, through a couple of my points, was that
> perhaps Jim's father had come into possession of this medal through a
> trade with a German POW that was more interested in some extra food or a
> carton of cigarettes than a German medal. Or the medal had been traded
> to him by another GI trading for something of value Jim's father had in
> his possession. If the medal is traded or given away by a German to a
> GI, or a Russian to a GI at Torgau on the Elbe, is this a violation of
> the Geneva Convention?
It would seem to me probably not, as the medal was given away
voluntarily. However, the question comes up as to how likely would this
be? There are only 27 recipients of this medal, how many of those were
alive in a POW camp that could be in a position to do this? Most are
war heros or high ranking types, would they even NEED to trade away this
medal? Wouldn't the lesser ranks help them out? Conversely, if that
winner traded the medal to help others, would that medal even make that
kind of impression on whoever it went to to be able to give that kind of
help?
> 1) That Jim's father no doubt obtained these items illegally;
> 2) That the medal has very high value; and
> 3) Referring below to a sentence in your last post:
>
> > ...I advised the "owner" not to push his researches too publicly,
> > because there are lawyers around who would happily assist the
> > true owner, or his heirs, to regain their stolen...property. ...
>
> I would disagree with the first point you made, and agree with the second
> and third points. As to the second point, if the Knights Cross medal is
> a copy and not original, then it is "caveat emptor", which then would
> make the third point a mute one.
It would seem to me that Heinz puts the same value to this medal as we
would to a CMOH or the Victoria Cross; you have to be really desperate
to willingly give it up. That kind of value may or may not get you very
far, at least for the value the holder perceives it to be.
Here's a question. Are the medals made to order? Or are there a few
somewhere? Let's say somebody had a few unawarded ones, and were left
behind in the last days, and it fell into enemy hands. For example,
maybe Oberst X was approved for the medal, but before it got there, he
was killed, and the medal maybe got left behind somewhere. I would not
consider that to be stealing a medal that hadn't been officially
awarded.
Another possibility is that the medal belonged to a widow/family. She
mighta traded it away for something during the immediate post-war era.
Kennedy
JKeegstra
>Convention? Or would he turn it in to his CO for that reason? Would the
>GI think the CO might keep it for himself? Let's consider the realities here.
If Germany was anything like the US, trading is a great deal. If you really
want it replaced after the war, you fill out a form and say it was lost or
stolen or some such.
There is nothing like tradegoods that always come back to you.
ca...@iname.com
<oki...@harborside.comNOSPAM> wrote:
>Thank you for your advise, but my father fought all the way from Normandy to
>the end of the war and if he, (like hundreds of other G.I.'s) happened to
>"liberate" a few war trophies, then so be it.
>I don't recall the 101st Airborne, (his unit during the war), running any
>concentration camps, maintaining any gas chambers, pulling gold teeth from
>their victims, or "relocating" millions.
>I have great respect for the German people and the German soldier of W.W.II.
>The Wermacht and Waffen-SS were some of the finest fighting men that ever
>graced the battlefield, but to say that my father did something illegal????
>Please! I won't even dignify that by defending his actions.
It´s really difficult, but I think you have to look at the two sides
of the story. Obviously your father didn´t go to Germany for holiday,
and he risked his life because the Germans invaded other countries and
murdered hundreds of thousands of people. On the other hand Heinz is
absolutely correct: Under certain circumstances your father did
something illegal. But you have to distinguish how serious it was.
As has been written abough, the knight´s cross had been awarded for
ultimate bravery, and the soldier who had been decorated with earned
it. You should accept that it had been his and that it was not allowed
to take it from him.
To demand that you should return it is one step to far, I suppose.
Your father took it home, well there it is. Nevertheless: Be aware of
what you own, and don´t compare the guy who got it with those
concentration camp bastards (sure, you don´t know if he was a Nazi and
if he did something wrong, but: in dubio pro reo), it´s not fair.
casita
>of the story.
Looks pretty simple to me. If a GI ( I am using that term for any Allied warrior ) was
issued a Medal of Honour, Victoria Cross etc. I would think he ( or she ) would only
surrender it to an enemy under great duress. Earn your own medals.