How To Aim A Sturmgeschutz?
Bob Peterson
What procedure did German gunners in WWII use to aim
the no-turret type panzers like the Stug, Elephant and
Jagdpanzers? Were they able to move the guns at all to
"fine-tune" their aim or was aiming entirely up to the
driver positioning the vehicle? How accurate were they?
Thanks,
Bob
STEVEN KOBERNICK
In article <57pid8$u...@portal.gmu.edu>,
All those vehicles had a limited traverse to them, although
some (like the Hetzer) less than others. The vehicle still
had to be pointing at the target to begin with. The only
SP gun I know of in which you must aim the entire vehicle
was the Swedish S tank.
--
Steven Kobernick ~@ @~ o
s_k...@alcor.concordia.ca (^_^) |
Montreal, Quebec, Canada Usagi (^_^)~@
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~s_kober Jupiter
Victor Desjardins
In article <57pid8$u...@portal.gmu.edu>,
Bob Peterson <bobp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>What procedure did German gunners in WWII use to aim
>the no-turret type panzers like the Stug, Elephant and
>Jagdpanzers? Were they able to move the guns at all to
>"fine-tune" their aim or was aiming entirely up to the
>driver positioning the vehicle? How accurate were they?
The artillery piece mounted in the StuG III and IV could traverse 10 degrees
left or right from the centreline and elevate up to 20 degrees. Apparently,
the StuG was very accurate... by the spring of 1944, StuGs were credited with
the destruction of some 20,000 Soviet tanks.
Victor Desjardins
vde...@magmacom.com
--------------------
Now go take on the day!
Scott K. Stafford
Bob Peterson <bobp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<57pid8$u...@portal.gmu.edu>...
>
> What procedure did German gunners in WWII use to aim
> the no-turret type panzers like the Stug, Elephant and
> Jagdpanzers? Were they able to move the guns at all to
> "fine-tune" their aim or was aiming entirely up to the
> driver positioning the vehicle? How accurate were they?
These weapons were all highly accurate, and could be aimed several degrees
(depending on the model...) left and right of centerline, as well as
elevation. The vehicle itself would be pointed in the general direction of
the enemy unit, and fine aiming would be done in the same manner as an AT
gun. In some ways, the assault guns were capable of *better* accuracy than a
turreted AFV, since aiming was done by the gunner with a setscrew rather than
having to crank the turret.
In an off-topic aside, the only vehicle (that I know of...) to actually
hard-mount the gun to the vehicle frame was the Swedish "S" (Strindvagen)
tank of 1960s vintage. In this radical design, a hydropneumatic suspension
was used to elevate and lower the barrel of the gun,and the tracks provided
horizontal aiming. Interesting concept, but several problems (utter
inability to fire on the move, unable to assume a meaningful hull-down
defilade...) prevented a repeat of this design.
--
sco...@together.net <Scott K. Stafford>
***************************************************
"Fanaticism is described as redoubling your
effort after you have forgotten your aim."
***************************************************
Jan de Boer
In article <57pid8$u...@portal.gmu.edu>,
Bob Peterson <bobp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>What procedure did German gunners in WWII use to aim
>the no-turret type panzers like the Stug, Elephant and
>Jagdpanzers? Were they able to move the guns at all to
>"fine-tune" their aim or was aiming entirely up to the
>driver positioning the vehicle? How accurate were they?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Bob
The StuG III (StuG 40 ausf. G / Sd Kfz 142/1), the most common Stug, had a
traverse of 10 degrees left and right for "fine-tuning". Of course this means
the vehicle has to be pointed in the right direction by the driver.
The StuG IV (7,5 cm StuK40 l/48 / Sd Kfz 167) had a traverse angle of 20
degrees left and right. The Elefant an angle of 28 degrees left and right.
I don't really know wether or not accuracy is less or greater than that of
turreted vehicles with the same gun.
The Stug IIIg and IV (armed with 7,5cm StuK40 L/48), featured the ZflZF1a
(Zelbstfahrlette Ziel Fernrohr) episcopic periscope that could deliver an AP
round at 2000 meters and an AP40 round at 1500 meters. Field of vision 8
degrees, magnification 5x.
The Pz IV Ausf G/H or J (armed with 7,5cm KwK40 L/48) featured the TZF5f/1 +
f/2 (Turm Ziel Fernrohr) that could delevier an AP round at 3000 meters and an
AP40 round at 1500 meters.
Field of vision 25 degrees, magnification 2,4x.
So the turreted vehicles have accuracy over greater ditance, but the StuG have
larger magnification.
I don't know the actual procedure within the vehicle. It's probably more
complicated than in a turreted vehicle. The number of commands should IMO
increase. In a turreted tank the commander will give the driver a general
direction in wich to point the vehicle to "show front armour",or simply to
stop, everything else is then handled with the gunner. In a StuG the vehicle
always has to be pointed in the direction of the target within these rather
narrow traverse and gunsight limits.
Greetings, JdB.
Alan and Moira Wilson
On 30 Nov 1996 15:04:08 GMT, Bob Peterson <bobp...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>What procedure did German gunners in WWII use to aim
>the no-turret type panzers like the Stug, Elephant and
>Jagdpanzers? Were they able to move the guns at all to
>"fine-tune" their aim or was aiming entirely up to the
>driver positioning the vehicle? How accurate were they?
The turretless AFV had some traverse capability in the gun mount - for
example, the StuG IIIB, D, E all had a 12 degree hand-traverse
available - Ausf F only had 10 degree. Outside that arc, it was down
to the driver to do the work. I'll let you do the maths to tell me
what scope that gave them at eg 1000 metres :)
Don't forget they also had suitable elevation changes available - eg
-6 to +20 degrees on the Ausf F.
Alan
Wimbledon
Source: Encyclopedia of German Tanks of WW2, Doyle & Chamberlain
Eric Jimerson
In <57pid8$u...@portal.gmu.edu> Bob Peterson <bobp...@ix.netcom.com>
writes:
>
>
>What procedure did German gunners in WWII use to aim
>the no-turret type panzers like the Stug, Elephant and
>Jagdpanzers? Were they able to move the guns at all to
>"fine-tune" their aim or was aiming entirely up to the
>driver positioning the vehicle? How accurate were they?
Most SP guns of this type had some traverse capability--
usually only maybe 10-15 degrees to either side. I have read that some
vehicles -Jagdpanthers in this particular case- locked their traverse
mechanisim and aimed the gun with the tracks. I find this subject to
question, as accurate aiming would be very difficult.
Needless to say, these vehicles did not fire while moving. If
they did, they certainly did not hit anything on purpose.
Jagdpanther
notat...@aol.com
Both - the driver had to "aim" the vehicle roughly in the direction of the
target; then the gunner had a few degrees of traverse he could apply on
the gun mount.
Some vehicles had more traverse than others - I think the Hetzer was the
worst in this regard, with something like 11 degrees total traverse
available.
One advantage (if you can call it that) to this system is that the
vehicle's thickest armor will usually face the enemy, if the TC has chosen
his position well. If not, well, think of it as an opportunity to give
your life for der furher.
Andrew Biggers
Most assault guns and tank destroyers did have a limited ability to
traverse their guns horizontally. However, in the main, the entire
tank had to pivot to bring the gun to bear on a target. These tanks
were fairly effective in the defencive and assault role where the
enemy was well out infornt of them, however, in dynamic tank
engagements these vehicles were at a very serious disadvantage and
were invariably the first to perish.
Andy
Per Andersson
Bob Peterson <bobp...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>What procedure did German gunners in WWII use to aim
>the no-turret type panzers like the Stug, Elephant and
>Jagdpanzers? Were they able to move the guns at all to
>"fine-tune" their aim or was aiming entirely up to the
>driver positioning the vehicle? How accurate were they?
The gun had the ability to be traversed a few degrees (ten or so in
each direction) within the hull. How much was of course varied between
different vehicles. The Hetzer (Jpz38(t)) for instance, was supposed
to have a very narrow fire arc.
AFAIK the only operational AFV that has had a completely rigid gun
mounting is the Swedish 'S' tank, which was produced in the late
sixties. The (west)Germans had a similar project for evaluation
sometime in the same period of time, but abandoned it.
Per Andersson
bruce burden
Eric Jimerson (jgp...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: usually only maybe 10-15 degrees to either side. I have read that some
: vehicles -Jagdpanthers in this particular case- locked their traverse
: mechanisim and aimed the gun with the tracks. I find this subject to
: question, as accurate aiming would be very difficult.
:
I too have a hard time believing this for anything beyond
coarse aiming adjustments. For one, the Jagdpanther (for that
matter, ALL Panthers) don't have neutral steer capabilities.
(I hope that is correct. The Tiger had this capability, but the
Panther used a different gearbox). For two, the Panther's
achillies heel was the spur gear in the final drive. Slewing
the vehicle un
--
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Bruce Burden bru...@eden.com Austin, Tx.
"I like bad!"
-Thuganlitha
The Power and the Prophet