Origin of 29th Infantry Division Insignia?
UbuRex9
After watching Saving Private Ryan, I have a question concerning the blue and
white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. What
were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern philosophy?
That symbol completely caught me off guard. I can understand the symbols of
the two airborne (82nd and 101st) divisions - AA for All-American and the
Screaming Eagle. The Big Red One for the 1st Division is pretty
self-explanatory. But the 29th's yin-yang symbol seemed really unique for an
American infantry division circa WWII.
Another quick question: I can never remember what division has as its symbol
the Electric Strawberry? I know this division was prevelant during the Vietnam
War; was it in existence during WWII?
- Paul
alb...@access.digex.net
ubu...@aol.com (UbuRex9) wrote:
> After watching Saving Private Ryan, I have a question concerning the blue and
> white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. What
> were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern philosophy?
Not really AFAIK with Eastern philosophy; the 29th Div. was before the war,
and AFAIK still is, a National Guard unit made up of mixed Virginia, Maryland
and Pennsylvania soldiers. Thus a mix of Confederate and Union states, and
thus the Blue and Gray in a harmonious combination. Maybe the harmony is
where the Eastern (Buddhist) thought comes in.
>the 29th's yin-yang symbol seemed really unique for an
> American infantry division circa WWII.
Not as unique as the New Mexico National Guard Division that featured a
Native American symbol originally....it had to be replaced as it was
strikingly similar to a certain emblem of a certain political party then
active in Central Europe......
> Another quick question: I can never remember what division has as its symbol
> the Electric Strawberry? I know this division was prevelant during the
Vietnam
> War; was it in existence during WWII?
That's the 25th Inf. Division, with its Tropical Lightening patch. It was
most assuredly in existence in WW2.
Colin Alberts
Arlington, Virginia
quod scripsi scripsi
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Jbrimstn
>blue and
>white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. What
>were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern philosophy?
The division insignia is the Monad (the Korean symbol of eternal life). The
colors (blue and gray) represent the North and South.
> I can never remember what division has as its symbol
>the Electric Strawberry?
The 25th Infantry Division (Tropic Lightening). Activated 1 October 1941 at
Schoefield Barracks, Hawaii.
Fought in the Pacific (Central Pacific, Guadalcanal, Northern Solomons, Luzon).
Fought in Korea and Vietnam.
Currently stationed at Schofield Barracks (1 brigade at Ft Lewis, Wa.).
Rangers lead the way,
Jay Brimstin
Tae Bum Shin
From the Center for Military History (US Army):
29th INFANTRY DIVISION
"Blue and Gray Division"
The division insignia, as suggested by Major J. A. Ulio (later Major
General, the Adjutant General), then Division Adjutant, is the
monad, the Korean symbol of eternal life. It is half blue and half gray in
matching teardrop design. The colors represent the tradition of
the division, composed of men of both North and South, whose forefathers
fought in the Union (blue) and Confederate (gray) Armies
during the Civil War.
=======
ubu...@aol.com (UbuRex9) writes:
>Hello,
>After watching Saving Private Ryan, I have a question concerning the blue and
>white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. What
>were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern philosophy?
>That symbol completely caught me off guard. I can understand the symbols of
>the two airborne (82nd and 101st) divisions - AA for All-American and the
>Screaming Eagle. The Big Red One for the 1st Division is pretty
>self-explanatory. But the 29th's yin-yang symbol seemed really unique for an
>American infantry division circa WWII.
>Another quick question: I can never remember what division has as its symbol
>the Electric Strawberry? I know this division was prevelant during the Vietnam
>War; was it in existence during WWII?
>- Paul
Jeffrey Joyce
division insignia was suggested by Major J. A. Ulio (later Major General,
the Adjutant General), then Division Adjutant. It is the monad, the Korean
symbol of eternal life. It is half blue and half gray in matching teardrop
design. The colors represent the tradition of the division, composed of men
of both North and South, whose forefathers fought in the Union (blue) and
Confederate (gray) Armies during the Civil War.
The "electric strawberry" refers to the 25th Infantry Division, "Tropic
Lightning". The 25th Infantry Division was activated at Schofield Barracks
on Oahu in 1941 and fought in the Pacific during World War II. It also
participated in Korea and Vietnam.
Jeff J.
UbuRex9 wrote in message
<199808041711...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>... What were its origins? ... Another quick question: I can never
Alexander Arnakis
I have a question concerning the blue and
>white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. What
>were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern philosophy?
>
I remember reading about the origin of the insignia in one of the 29th
Division unit histories. It seems that sometime in 1918, Pershing
ordered the AEF divisions in France to each adopt distinctive
insignia, in imitation of the British practice. Originally this was
for marking unit equipment only, but by early 1919 the practice had
spread to individual uniform patches, worn on the left shoulder.
Anyway, the actual insignia for the 29th was designed by a committee
of officers, appointed at the divisional level. Since the division was
known as the "Blue and Gray," because the ancestor units of its
regiments had served in the Civil War in the Union and Confederate
armies, those were the colors chosen for the insignia. Regarding the
shape, one of the officers on the committee suggested the Korean
national symbol as embodying a harmonious blending of the two colors.
Thus the design was chosen mostly for aesthetic reasons.
RAL
"After watching Saving Private Ryan, I have a question concerning the
blue and white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry
--snipped the rest about the 25th Div insignia--
alb...@access.digex.net responded:
"Not really AFAIK with Eastern philosophy; the 29th Div. was before the
war, and AFAIK still is, a National Guard unit made up of mixed
Virginia, Maryland and Pennsylvania soldiers. Thus a mix of Confederate
and Union states, and thus the Blue and Gray in a harmonious
combination. Maybe the harmony is where the Eastern (Buddhist) thought
comes in."
--snipped the rest about the 25th Div insignia here, too--
Correctamondo ... 29th Division is known as The Blue and Gray Division.
Most units can trace their lineage, or the lineage of individual
companies, back to the Civil War. The division patch is to show this
blending of blue and gray and dates back to WWI.
RAL
Gerard
<jeffre...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> The "electric strawberry" refers to the 25th Infantry Division, "Tropic
> Lightning". The 25th Infantry Division was activated at Schofield Barracks
> on Oahu in 1941 and fought in the Pacific during World War II.
Wasn't its first division commander "Lightning Joe" Collins?
--
"Don't trust me, test me"
Bill Shatzer
In a previous article, ubu...@aol.com (UbuRex9) says:
>Hello,
>
>After watching Saving Private Ryan, I have a question concerning the blue and
>white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. What
>were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern philosophy?
I think the colors were blue and gray, not blue and white.
As I recall, the 29th was originally a national guard unit from
Virginia and Maryland and the colors symbolized the melding of the
Civil War old confederacy (gray for Virginia) with the Civil War
Union (blue for Maryland). I doubt the symbol had anything directly
to do with eastern philosophy but rather was merely a pleasing design
for combining the two symbolic colors.
On the other hand, it is doubtful the yin-yang design was original -
undoubtably it was copied from the eastern yin-yang design. And,
perhaps the eastern concept of the yin-yang combining two opposites
(male and female, light and dark, Union and Confederacy?) into one
complete whole played a role in the choice of design.
Cheers and all,
--
Bill Shatzer - bsha...@orednet.org
Phocks
UbuRex9 <ubu...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808041711...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Hello,
>
> After watching Saving Private Ryan, I have a question concerning the blue
and
> white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division.
What
> were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern
philosophy?
>
> That symbol completely caught me off guard. I can understand the symbols
of
> the two airborne (82nd and 101st) divisions - AA for All-American and the
> Screaming Eagle. The Big Red One for the 1st Division is pretty
> self-explanatory. But the 29th's yin-yang symbol seemed really unique for
an
> American infantry division circa WWII.
Actually, you may notice that the colors are blue and GRAY- that's because
this division was a National Guard unit made up from regiments from
Virginia, Pennsylvania, and the Maryland National Guard. When originally
raised during WWI, the American Civil War was still a relatively recent
event, and this was a fairly neat way to show the unit's composition.
>
> Another quick question: I can never remember what division has as its
symbol
> the Electric Strawberry? I know this division was prevelant during the
Vietnam
> War; was it in existence during WWII?
The 25th, officially know as the "Tropic Lightning", was raised in Hawaii
in 1941. I believe that the Electric Strawberry cognimen was a Vietnam War
invention, but I am not positive it wasn't earlier.It also fought in Korea
IIRC.
BTW, the most unusual (in my opinion) divisional insignia was the 45th
Infantry's- the Swastika! A pre-war National Guard Division from AZ/NM,
they quickly changed to the more familiar Thunderbird patch.
Damien Fox
hug...@utahlinx.com
gbri...@CUTTHISgmu.edu (Gerard) wrote:
The 25th Infantry Division was activated at Schofield Barracks
> > on Oahu in 1941 and fought in the Pacific during World War II.
>
> Wasn't its first division commander "Lightning Joe" Collins?
"Lightning Joe" was the second commander of the 25th ID.
Did his nickname come from his time in command? He commanded the
25th from May 42 to Jan 44. Collins led the division into its
first combat on Guadalcanal.
alb...@access.digex.net
In article <6qchvv$b3e$1...@nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
"Phocks" <pho...@goodnet.com> wrote:
> UbuRex9 <ubu...@aol.com> wrote in article
> <199808041711...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> > Hello,
> > After watching Saving Private Ryan, I have a question concerning the blue and
> > white yin-yang symbol associated with the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. What
> > were its origins? Did it have anything at all to do with Eastern philosophy?
> > That symbol completely caught me off guard. I can understand the symbols of
> > the two airborne (82nd and 101st) divisions - AA for All-American and the
> > Screaming Eagle. The Big Red One for the 1st Division is pretty
> > self-explanatory. But the 29th's yin-yang symbol seemed really unique for an
> > American infantry division circa WWII.
>
> Actually, you may notice that the colors are blue and GRAY- that's because
> this division was a National Guard unit made up from regiments from
> Virginia, Pennsylvania, and the Maryland National Guard. When originally
> raised during WWI, the American Civil War was still a relatively recent
> event, and this was a fairly neat way to show the unit's composition.
Just a quick addition: I checked, and you can find out a lot about the 29th
Division's overall history as well as its D-Day experience on its current web
site: http://www.29thinfantrydivision.com
It still is primarily a Virginia NG unit, but a highly active one, and very
proud of its lineage and history. It turns out that they were the only
National Guard unit to take place in the initial landings in France, quite a
distinction.
Colin Alberts
Arlington, Virginia
quod scripsi scripsi
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
JCDrews
True, it was nicknamed the Blue and Gray to reflect the history of its
constitutent units in the Civil War.
False, about Md and Va NG (of today). In WWI the "Blue" firstly referred
to the NEW JERSEY troops (57th Bde, with 113th and 114th Inf Regts), but
secondarily to its DC, Delaware and Pennsylvania personnel (either draftees or
ex-NG men split up and spread around). The Gray likewise refered to the 58th
Bde of 115th Inf MD and 116th Inf VA.
Time passes, guys, and the NG and US Army are not immune. When mobilized
for WWII, a big slice of the DivArty of the 29th was Pennsylvania (the
Dusquesne Grays fr Pittsburgh, mainly). Triangularization pushed the DG out,
but many PANG men transferred within the Div. The Eng Regiment (121st) (and
Divl HQ and spt) was a DC unit, most of its MEN went outside the Div after
Pearl harbor and the Regt split into the 121 Bn (stayed) and 135th (went), both
filled up at random with men from everywhere and draftees (DC connection got
real thin). In the 1920's, NJ created its own Div (44th) and the MDNG split
its Inf into two Regts, 115th and 175th, and VA did likewsie with 116th and
176th. Traingularization sloughed off the 176th.
Mike Woods
: It still is primarily a Virginia NG unit,
Come again? 1/115 Infantry is still part of it, and its armory is in
Frederick, MD.
During World War II, the composition of the Division was :
115 Infantry (Maryland, statewide)
116 Infantry (Northern Virginia)
175 Infantry (Baltimore, Maryland)
The Field Artilllery Regiment was from Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. The
Military Police and Engineer elements were from Washington, DC.
The above is from memory, but I got the information from a book on 29ID
entitled "Beyond the Beachhead." Pick it up if you can find it, it's a
good read. It includes a map of where the armories of the various
companies were located, and also has a lot of information on the
dispositions of the German 352 Division at Omaha.
-- Mike Woods
JCDrews
One of its Co's (A?) is in Frederick. 2-115th is HQd at Chestertown on the
Eastern Shore. And 1-175th is HQd in Baltimore.
JCDrews
NG 176th (Duquesne Greys). But it was gone in Feb 42. The Triangularization
process shed the Arty Bde HQ (54th, fr MD) and broke the 110th (MD) and 111th
(VA) FA Regts-- each of 2 Bns -- down into sep Bns: 110th and 224th (MD) and
111th and 227th (VA).
Although the Div HHC (incl what was then an MP PLATOON, not a Co) and 121st Eng
REGT were from DC, they quickly lost their DC men. The Regt was split into 2
sep units -- the 121st BN and the 135th REGT. The 121st Bn absorbed the
majority of the DC men, but the latter was a high priority unit and it was
quickly filled -- with spare people from the 110th FAR (MD), levies of New Guys
from the Ft Belvoir Eng center (esp. OCS LTs) and sent to TRINIDAD (!). A yr
later, in TRINIDAD, the Regt was boiled down to Bn, then went to UK and France
(9 Aug 44). A neighbor of mine was in the 121st>135th. According to him, MD
men came to dominate the 121st Bn ("take it as their own") while at Ft Meade.
He says that MD and NY had more men in it than DC by the time is was split up.
Oddly, the 121st Eng Bn (no matter what they may tell you!) carries no history
from the old DC unit. It was Formed New post-WWII and only got the "121"
number because the ol 121 had converted to (?) MP or AAA.
Another oddity of the 29th is one of the Co's of its QM Regt was split off to
go to EGYPT. This unit was from Denton MD and its history in the MTO is with
the Queen Anne's Co of today's NG.
The 29th Assn has lots of vets who hailed from NY, New England, Calif, and Ohio
-- many came in as Guardsmen, before Pearl Harbor, and others arrived as
draftees. In the early days of the war, Sel Svc often sent drafted men fr the
NG Divs' home states to those units. This was truer before actual war began.
After PH, draftees were sent from their homes/induction stations, by the
busload or trainload to whatever Div (or tng cen) was on the list as ready to
absorb them. Many 17th Abn Div glider guys came from WV, SW PA, NJ, TN, MA and
MS.
Bob Tiernan
Someone recently posted some details of the Omaha
Beach scenes, and mentioned that these accurate
details had something to do with Ambrose's input.
But Ambrose was hired *after* the filming was complete.
Bob T.
Stephen D Paietta-Lim
That would be me. Spielberg had made a reference to an
article written by Ambrose that had influenced him mid-writing. Whether
that led to Ambrose' hiring I do not know.
Steve
James A. Wolf
>
>
>As I recall, the 29th was originally a national guard unit from
>Virginia and Maryland and the colors symbolized the melding of the
>Civil War old confederacy (gray for Virginia) with the Civil War
>Union (blue for Maryland).
The 29th (which, along with the 1st ID, landed at Omaha on D-Day)
consisted of National Gaurd Units from Virginia, Pennsylvania,
Maryland and (IIRC) West Virginia.)
<*> James A. Wolf - jaw...@tiac.net - www.tiac.net/users/jawolf <*>
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just as dangerous a weapon | era vibrating with the |dangerous than articulate
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