WW2 attempted Kidnapp of Winston Churchill ???!!!!!!!
Lars.Andersson
i have heard that the german army launched an operation in the end of the
war with the goal of kidnapping Winston Churhill . Is it true , Can anyone
confirm this .
or maby anyone know of any other famous operations.
Donald Phillipson
> i have heard that the german army launched an operation in the end of the
> war with the goal of kidnapping Winston Churhill . Is it true , Can anyone
> confirm this .
This is fiction (actually a movie starring Michael Caine.)
It never happened.
--
| Donald Phillipson, dphil...@trytel.com |
| Carlsbad Springs, Ottawa, Canada |
B. Green
Donald Sutherland, Larry Hagman (!), Robert Duvall, Michael Caine, Donald
Pleasance, Jennie Agutter, Anthony Quayle, Jean Marsh, Judy Geeson, Treat
Williams and other top notch actors make it worth watching.
--bg
~~~~~~
B. Green
Lars.Andersson <lars.an...@mbox353.swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:8nehth$m...@eyrie.stanford.edu...
> WW2 attempted Kidnapp of Winston Churchill ???!!!!!!!
> war with the goal of kidnapping Winston Churhill . Is it true , Can anyone
> confirm this .
Taki Kogoma
Phillipson), to soc.history.war.world-war-ii decree...
>"Lars.Andersson" (lars.an...@mbox353.swipnet.se) writes:
>> i have heard that the german army launched an operation in the end of the
>> war with the goal of kidnapping Winston Churhill . Is it true , Can anyone
>> confirm this .
>
>It never happened.
_The Eagle Has Landed_ by Jack Higgins. Movie based on the novel.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
quirk @ swcp.com | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
W. Lydecker
for propaganda purposes. Ike couldn't
scratch himself without security running up to him.
Holloway
<lars.an...@mbox353.swipnet.se> wrote:
>WW2 attempted Kidnapp of Winston Churchill ???!!!!!!!
>i have heard that the german army launched an operation in the end of the
>war with the goal of kidnapping Winston Churhill . Is it true , Can anyone
>confirm this .
>or maby anyone know of any other famous operations.
>
>mr_wa...@hotmail.com
Fiction. 2 popular books written on the subject, "The Eagle Has
Landed" and "The Eagle Has Flown", both by Jack Higgins. Interesting
stories to say the least.
"May you always have fair winds and following seas.."
Paul Holloway
genrl_m...@my-deja.com
"Lars.Andersson" <lars.an...@mbox353.swipnet.se> wrote:
> WW2 attempted Kidnapp of Winston Churchill ???!!!!!!!
> i have heard that the german army launched an operation in the end of the
> war with the goal of kidnapping Winston Churhill . Is it true , Can anyone
> confirm this .
Others have mentioned the movie The Eagle has Landed which is based on
a book by Jack Higgins. There is also a sequel The Eagle has Flown
which is even sillier than the first. Higgins writes great thrillers
but both plots were unrealistic.
M.J.Powell
>but both plots were unrealistic.
What do you think was unrealistic about the plot of 'The Eagle Has
Landed'?
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
anker...@my-deja.com
"Lars.Andersson" <lars.an...@mbox353.swipnet.se> wrote:
> WW2 attempted Kidnapp of Winston Churchill ???!!!!!!!
No, the story is fiction, but a good read. "The Eagle Has Landed",
by Jack Higgins
It was the Allies, most specifically the British, who attempted to
kidnap or assassination of the opposition leaders. They were
attempting to kill (shoot by a sniper) Hilter, even as the war
ended. They attempted to kidnap/kill Rommel. There are other
British examples.
I don't know why the war was so personal to the British. Perhaps
someone can explain. Perhaps it goes back to the personality of
WSC.
GFH
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
William Black
B. Green <tobg...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39c0d4c8...@news.dialix.com.au...
> The movie 'The Eagle Has Landed' is about this subject, a great flick.
And it's a remake of a British wartime propaganda film called 'Went the Day
Well', although Churchill isn't mentioned in that one...
---------------------------------------------------------
William Black | And dar'st thou Warrior seek to see
| What heaven and hell alike would hide
| Lay of the last minstrel, Sir Walter
Scott
Donald Phillipson
"William Black" (black_...@hotmail.com) writes:
> And it's a remake of a British wartime propaganda film called 'Went the Day
> Well', although Churchill isn't mentioned in that one...
This appears not to be the case. "Went the Day Well" deals with
(current 1940) fears of a "fifth column" of traitors collaborating
with an enemy (arriving in disguise) and civilian resistance. The
story concerns a German unit in British uniform that seals off a British
village to prepare for the German invasion, defeated at the end
by an improvised resistance. The Follett novel is quite different,
concerning an attempt to capture the British PM.
Jon-paul
>> Higgins writes great thrillers but both plots were unrealistic.
>
>What do you think was unrealistic about the plot of 'The Eagle Has
>Landed'?
The concept was fine, disguising the paratroops as Free Polish paras was a
neat trick. But given the track record of Geman infiltration in the UK
(which is poor to almost non existant)I doubt they would have had the
intellegence to launch such an expidition.
JP
Yau-ming Chiam
Cheers,
YM
genrl_m...@my-deja.com
"M.J.Powell" <mi...@pickmere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Higgins writes great thrillers
> >but both plots were unrealistic.
>
> What do you think was unrealistic about the plot of 'The Eagle Has
> Landed'?
>
silly and obviously a sequel requested based on the sales of the
original.
The whole premise is unrealistic. First, landing a party from a
submarine on the coast of the British Isles in late 1943 is far fetched
alone. By then the Battle of the Atlantic had been won and it was
unsafe for German submarines to sail in deep water let alone in shore
in Britain. Second, dressing them up as Polish paratroopers is a great
plot device. However, enough English people could tell the difference
between spoken German and spoken Polish. People might not recognize
Polish but they sure would recognize German. Furthermore, by that
period of the war the Poles would have picked up enough English to at
least ask for cigarettes. Third, Churchill would have been too well
guarded to let a small force like the one that couldn't land get close
to him.
Offsetting this is the raid on Rommel which was unsuccessful even
though it took place in a war zone in North Africa and the Mussolini
heist.
I think a Day of the Jackal scenario with an IRA gunman hired to kill
Churchill might work better. As I said, it's still a great thriller
and Higgins does a good job with the willing suspension of disbelief.
It's like a Stephen King story. It draws you in even though you know
it couldn't really happen.
Andrew Clark
Jon-paul <poc...@cix.co.uk> wrote
> But given the track record of Geman infiltration in the UK
> (which is poor to almost non existant) I doubt they would have had the
> intellegence to launch such an expidition.
Entirely correct. The Germans never had anything approaching an intelligence
network within Britain. They had the odd agent, but most survived only a
matter of days or weeks. By 1943, every German agent within Britain was
under British control. The Germans were similarly successful within Germany
against Allied agents, BTW.
Alan Allport
news:39a2e1b7...@news.dialix.com.au...
> It was the Allies, most specifically the British, who attempted to
> kidnap or assassination of the opposition leaders.
> I don't know why the war was so personal to the British. Perhaps
> someone can explain.
I don't see why this is so perplexing, at least in the German case. The
ideology of 'Fuehrerprinzip' implied that the personal leadership of the
Nazi elite was a - perhaps the - critical characteristic of their
administration. The removal of key actors was therefore a way to seriously
dislocate, and perhaps even demolish, the incumbent German political
system,
and end the war. Readers are free to decide for themselves how plausible
this theory was, since it was never practically implemented. But it seems
reasonable to suppose that the assassination of an Axis leader (of a
top-down, rigidly hierarchical regime) would have had a more profound
impact
on the well-being of the body politic than the similar death of a Western
Allied leader (of a more diffuse, constitutionally mature system).
Alan.
Jon-paul
>WSC.
could be, also there is the possibility that we were shocked that we were
at
war with the Germans, who are cultraly our cousins, quite often historicly
(though wrongly assumed because in those days there was no germany) our
allies (in in some cases for important families here, literaly). It had to
be that nasty short austrian that led them into it. If we could have done
with him and his cronies and we could get back to the real busines of
fighting thoses horrid bolsheviks, keeping the natives down or even having
a
crack at the french like we always used to do. after all the 100 years war
was a top effort from the lads, what-what!
Yes, its a cliche', tounge is firmly in cheek as i write this but I belive
that some important people here at that time felt that way. So plans were
drafted either seriously or not to appease such sentements. whether that
went all the way to the top or not is another matter.
Andrew Clark
<anker...@my-deja.com> wrote
> It was the Allies, most specifically the British, who attempted to
> kidnap or assassination of the opposition leaders.
Really? Despite having not a single SOE or SIS agent within Germany from
1941 - 1945? What's your proof?
> They were
> attempting to kill (shoot by a sniper) Hilter, even as the war
> ended.
I've not read of this scheme in the official wartime histories of SIS,
Military Intelligence, SOE or any of the special forces. Could you give
more
details and quote the source?
> They attempted to kidnap/kill Rommel.
Attempting to kill military commanders during a battle is part of
recognised, respectable war tactics. Commandos attacked Rommel's villa in
Libya, yes, and he was away. Geyr von Schweppenburg's HQ in Normandy was
located by radio intelligence and destroyed by RAF medium bombers, with the
general the only survivor of his 60+ strong HQ team. What's your point - do
you think military commanders should be inviolate, like in the 18th
Century?
> I don't know why the war was so personal to the British. Perhaps
> someone can explain. Perhaps it goes back to the personality of
> WSC
This is the same "WSC" who bitterly condemned the execution without trial
of
Mussolini in 1944, and demanded that Alexander, British C-in-C in Italy,
launch an immediate investigation with the aim of bringing the killers
before an Allied or Italian court. And the same WSC who walked out on
Stalin
in an absolute fury when the latter proposed murdering the German General
staff and the key German political personalities as a means of castrating
post-war Germany? You seem to be talking complete tosh.
V-Man
>Really? Despite having not a single SOE or SIS agent within Germany from
>1941 - 1945? What's your proof?
Andrew, did you mean SOE/SIS *Officers*?? An officer is one of yours, an
Agent is someone from the target nation that has been recruited. SOE/SIS/OSS
had a few of those in Germany, if not many.
V-Man A Knight is sworn to Valor, His Heart knows only Virtue
=/\= His Blade defends the Weak, His Word speaks only Truth
(-o-) His Wrath undoes the Wicked
<*>
B. Green
about June 7/44. Anybody able to confirm this?
--bg
~~~~~
Yau-ming Chiam <donotsendjun...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:Cz2o5.6920$Xg.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
anker...@my-deja.com
"Andrew Clark" <acl...@cedar-consultancy.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <anker...@my-deja.com> wrote
> > They were
> > attempting to kill (shoot by a sniper) Hilter, even as the war
> > ended.
>
> I've not read of this scheme in the official wartime histories of SIS,
> Military Intelligence, SOE or any of the special forces. Could you
give
> more
> details and quote the source?
Sure, one of my least favorite sources -- The History Channel. But,
in this case, they were interviewing the man who had attempted the
assassination, which gives the report increased credibility. He
was carrying a sniper Mauser, which he held in his hand as he was
interviewed (knowing UK gun laws, one must assume that the rifle
is in some museum). He was trying to work his way up to within
400 yards. He was still on the ground, in Bavaria, when the
war ended.
GFH
M.J.Powell
<poc...@cix.co.uk> writes
>The concept was fine, disguising the paratroops as Free Polish paras was a
>(which is poor to almost non existant)I doubt they would have had the
>intellegence to launch such an expidition.
The spies were civilian, controlled by civilians. The German military
were another thing altogether.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
V-Man
>
A week after the landings, Eisenhower and his son were ON the beaches,
performing a command inspection. John Eisenhower graduated from USMA the
day
of the assault.
Andrew Clark
> Andrew, did you mean SOE/SIS *Officers*??
I did, and thank you for the correction. SIS & SOE had no officers in
Germany, but did have a very few agents.
M.J.Powell
deja.com writes
>In article <8nehth$m...@eyrie.stanford.edu>,
> "Lars.Andersson" <lars.an...@mbox353.swipnet.se> wrote:
>> WW2 attempted Kidnapp of Winston Churchill ???!!!!!!!
>
>No, the story is fiction, but a good read. "The Eagle Has Landed",
>by Jack Higgins
>
>attempting to kill (shoot by a sniper) Hilter, even as the war
>ended.
You've seen too many films, like 'Rogue Male'.
Details, please.
> They attempted to kidnap/kill Rommel.
Yes, an enemy commander of first rate importance.
> There are other
>British examples.
The general from Crete?
>
>I don't know why the war was so personal to the British.
Bombs on your head become personal.
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
William Black
<anker...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8nunnb$pjo@beast...
>. He
> was carrying a sniper Mauser, which he held in his hand as he was
> interviewed (knowing UK gun laws, one must assume that the rifle
> is in some museum).
A W.W.II Mauser sniper rifle would be perfectly legal under current UK gun
laws. There are no laws in the UK which would make such a weapon impossible
to hold. Of course you would need a licence but W.W.II souvenirs like a
bolt action Mauser would be allowable if you were licensed and it was
securely stored, just like in any civilised country.
Andrew Clark
<anker...@my-deja.com> wrote
> But, in this case, they were interviewing the man who had attempted the
assassination [of Hitler]
Did the History Channel give a name or unit or any information about who
sent him? Or which production company made the piece? I'd love to follow
this one up...
Andrew Clark
William Black <black_...@hotmail.com> wrote
> A W.W.II Mauser sniper rifle would be perfectly legal under current UK gun
> laws.
Sort of. Considerable upset has recently been caused among British WW2
veterans and collectors by a ruling by the Association of Chief Police
Officers that any sort of WW2 single-shot combat weapon, such as a sniper
rifle, in working order can be held in secure conditions only by reputable
historical institutions. Individuals, however reputable their intent, are
increasingly finding that they cannot get a licence or renew the one they
have. The ruling on WW2 handguns (single-shot) in working order is presently
that private bona fide collectors may retain up to ten weapons, but it may
be only a matter of time before this is changed. Of course, automatic and
semi-automatic rifles and handguns of any age are banned altogether.
BTW, for our US colleagues, this means that a lot of WW2 weapons are going
cheap in Britain... But don't do as a friend of mine, who bought a Lee
Enfield .303 privately and tried to carry it through Heathrow. He found
himself on his face with a rather more modern Heckler & Koch in his
nostril...
William Black
[Moderators' Note: This is pretty far afield. Responses must be about
World War II -- not about British gun laws.]
Andrew Clark <acl...@cedar-consultancy.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8o42pn$nmg@beast...
>
> William Black <black_...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > A W.W.II Mauser sniper rifle would be perfectly legal under current UK
gun
> > laws.
>
> Sort of. Considerable upset has recently been caused among British WW2
> veterans and collectors by a ruling by the Association of Chief Police
> Officers that any sort of WW2 single-shot combat weapon, such as a sniper
> rifle, in working order can be held in secure conditions only by reputable
> historical institutions
Sorry, are you saying that single shot bolt action rifles are not legal to
be held by licenced individuals? Because if that is the case then there is
going to be a really small entry at this years long range rifle competition
at Bisley.
Or are you saying that certain weapons with no modern aplication in shooting
which are owned by people who don't shoot should be deactivated?
Because if you don't shoot em why have em?
--
Nick Cooper
<acl...@cedar-consultancy.co.uk> wrote:
><anker...@my-deja.com> wrote
>
>> They were
>> attempting to kill (shoot by a sniper) Hilter, even as the war
>> ended.
>
>I've not read of this scheme in the official wartime histories of SIS,
>Military Intelligence, SOE or any of the special forces. Could you give
>more
>details and quote the source?
Try 'Operation Foxley - The British Plan to Kill Hitler' published by
the Public Record Office [1998, ISBN 1-873162-72-3]. It's basically
the reprinted dossier on the Operation, with an introduction by Mark
Seaman. The plans reached into 1945, and covered other suggested
targets such as Himmler, but there are lot of question-marks over
whether any of the suggested scheme would succeed, with some of them
being positively hare-brained (e.g. trying to hit Hitler's car/train
with a PIAT!).
--
Nick Cooper
Two weeks in Normandy, the Somme & Flanders/Simon the Cat of 'HMS Amethyst': http://freespace.virgin.net/nick.cooper/personal
Andrew Clark
Nick Cooper <nick....@virgin.net> wrote
> Try 'Operation Foxley - The British Plan to Kill Hitler' published by
> the Public Record Office [1998, ISBN 1-873162-72-3].
Thanks for the detailed reference, but I have read the book since my last
post. I see that while lots of elaborate plans were made, no actual attempt
was ever launched...