Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
The First and Last Day of the IJN Shinano
170 views
Skip to first unread message
a425couple
Nov 22, 2015, 11:18:58 PM11/22/15
to
This story was based on information provided by the book SHINANO by Captain
Joseph F. Enright with James W. Ryan. For a more complete and interesting
account of the saga of the SHINANO.
The First and Last Day of the
Imperial Japanese Navy Ship SHINANO
If it appears that the American Navy had the best claim to the Hard Luck
Ship title, certainly the Japanese Navy should have the right to be in the
running. Consider the Imperial Japanese Navy ship the SHINANO. When
completed in late 1944, it was the largest warship afloat. It was an
aircraft carrier of over 72,000 tons and with a steel flight deck that was
designed to withstand a hit from a thousand pound bomb. The flight deck
contained enough steel to build a conventional carrier of the day. The
SHINANO was a great ship in any man's navy.
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/solomon0/Shinano.htm
Joseph F. Enright with James W. Ryan. For a more complete and interesting
account of the saga of the SHINANO.
The First and Last Day of the
Imperial Japanese Navy Ship SHINANO
If it appears that the American Navy had the best claim to the Hard Luck
Ship title, certainly the Japanese Navy should have the right to be in the
running. Consider the Imperial Japanese Navy ship the SHINANO. When
completed in late 1944, it was the largest warship afloat. It was an
aircraft carrier of over 72,000 tons and with a steel flight deck that was
designed to withstand a hit from a thousand pound bomb. The flight deck
contained enough steel to build a conventional carrier of the day. The
SHINANO was a great ship in any man's navy.
http://www.angelfire.com/planet/solomon0/Shinano.htm
Jim H.
Nov 23, 2015, 10:38:19 AM11/23/15
to
On Sunday, November 22, 2015 at 11:18:58 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> This story was based on information provided by the book SHINANO by Captain
> Joseph F. Enright with James W. Ryan. For a more complete and interesting
> account of the saga of the SHINANO.
> The First and Last Day of the
> Imperial Japanese Navy Ship SHINANO
....
> This story was based on information provided by the book SHINANO by Captain
> Joseph F. Enright with James W. Ryan. For a more complete and interesting
> account of the saga of the SHINANO.
> The First and Last Day of the
> Imperial Japanese Navy Ship SHINANO
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/planet/solomon0/Shinano.htm
It's been years since I read the book 'Shinano'. IIRC one of the
items that was incomplete in Yokosuka was the watertight
stuffing around wireways and pipes. The material (rubber? mastic?)
was in short supply in Yokuska, possibly due the US sub blockade.
This compromised the Shinano's watertight compartmentalization,
and probably made any damage control efforts much less effective.
On a personal note, I was in the USN from '67-'71. The ship I served
on was home-ported in Yokosuka at the former IJN base and shipyard.
We often used the drydock where the Shinano had been built as a berth.
It lay close and parallel to a steep ridge that contained some
wartime tunnels, then gated off. I wish I had paid more attention
to them. But I can see how the IJN was able to keep the Shinano from
prying eyes, using cables and nets strung from the top of that
ridge.
Jim H.
a425couple
Nov 24, 2015, 12:28:42 AM11/24/15
to
"a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
The above story contained some aspects a bit different
than most I had read before.
And now, this below, seems also notably different!!!
(Yeah, I know, SPOILER = she still sinks!)
"Sink the Shinano
Posted by HW on 29 Nov 2012 / 6 Comments
Published on November 29, 1944
The largest aircraft carrier built in all of World War II, Japan's
72,000 ton Shinano, was well on the way to achieving operational
status when the first B-29 Superfortress launched from Saipan and
made a reconnaissance flight over the ship in dry dock at Yokosuka.
Immediately, the Japanese Naval Command recognized that the
Shinano would have to be moved or it would soon be targeted
by the American heavy bombers.---"
http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/11/sink-the-shinano/
interesting " In retrospect, the loss of 50 Ohkas on the Shinano was
probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
five months until April 1945."
> This story was based on information provided by the book SHINANO by
> Captain Joseph F. Enright with James W. Ryan. For a more complete and
> interesting account of the saga of the SHINANO.
> The First and Last Day of the
> Imperial Japanese Navy Ship SHINANO
> http://www.angelfire.com/planet/solomon0/Shinano.htm
> Captain Joseph F. Enright with James W. Ryan. For a more complete and
> interesting account of the saga of the SHINANO.
> The First and Last Day of the
> Imperial Japanese Navy Ship SHINANO
The above story contained some aspects a bit different
than most I had read before.
And now, this below, seems also notably different!!!
(Yeah, I know, SPOILER = she still sinks!)
"Sink the Shinano
Posted by HW on 29 Nov 2012 / 6 Comments
Published on November 29, 1944
The largest aircraft carrier built in all of World War II, Japan's
72,000 ton Shinano, was well on the way to achieving operational
status when the first B-29 Superfortress launched from Saipan and
made a reconnaissance flight over the ship in dry dock at Yokosuka.
Immediately, the Japanese Naval Command recognized that the
Shinano would have to be moved or it would soon be targeted
by the American heavy bombers.---"
http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/11/sink-the-shinano/
interesting " In retrospect, the loss of 50 Ohkas on the Shinano was
probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
five months until April 1945."
Jim H.
Nov 24, 2015, 12:18:38 PM11/24/15
to
On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 12:28:42 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> "a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
...
> "a425couple" <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote in message...
> > http://www.angelfire.com/planet/solomon0/Shinano.htm
>
> The above story contained some aspects a bit different
> than most I had read before.
> And now, this below, seems also notably different!!!
> (Yeah, I know, SPOILER = she still sinks!)
>
> "Sink the Shinano
> Posted by HW on 29 Nov 2012 / 6 Comments
> Published on November 29, 1944
......
>
> The above story contained some aspects a bit different
> than most I had read before.
> And now, this below, seems also notably different!!!
> (Yeah, I know, SPOILER = she still sinks!)
>
> "Sink the Shinano
> Posted by HW on 29 Nov 2012 / 6 Comments
> Published on November 29, 1944
> http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/11/sink-the-shinano/
>
> interesting " In retrospect, the loss of 50 Ohkas on the Shinano was
> probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
> the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
> five months until April 1945."
As a further curiosity, the Historicwings story seems to slightly
>
> interesting " In retrospect, the loss of 50 Ohkas on the Shinano was
> probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
> the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
> five months until April 1945."
contradict Wikipedia's version. Wiki has it that US Naval Intelligence
did not know of the Shinano's existence until after the war, despite
reading Japanese radio codes. Further, the Archerfish's skipper was
only credited with sinking a large tanker until after the war, since
the US didn't know of the Shinano.
I can't recall whether the book 'Shinano' had any mention of her Ohka
cargo or not.
Jim H.
a425couple
Nov 25, 2015, 1:54:08 PM11/25/15
to
"Jim H." <irond...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>> http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/11/sink-the-shinano/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Shinano
and here is a forth:
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/japan/jap_cv_shinano.htm
that does not differ greatly from the wiki.
"Besides, almost ready hull of a battleship not allowed to place two-level
hangar, therefore it was necessary to manage one-level. Accordingly size
of air group of world largest aircraft carrier was only 42 (47 with spare)
aircraft. But the aviation ammunition stowage was very impressive. Partly
it spoke that it supposed to use Shinano as support carrier, intended for
cover of first line carrier forces and their replenishing by aircrafts and
ammunition."
and here is a fifth:
http://wikimapia.org/2226023/Wreck-of-the-HIJMS-Shinano-%E4%BF%A1%E6%BF%83
>> > http://www.angelfire.com/planet/solomon0/Shinano.htm
>>
>> The above story contained some aspects a bit different
>> than most I had read before.
>> And now, this below, seems also notably different!!!
>> "Sink the Shinano
>>
>> The above story contained some aspects a bit different
>> than most I had read before.
>> And now, this below, seems also notably different!!!
>> http://fly.historicwings.com/2012/11/sink-the-shinano/
>
> As a further curiosity, the Historicwings story seems to slightly
> contradict Wikipedia's version.
Yes, indeed, these versions vary consideably.
> As a further curiosity, the Historicwings story seems to slightly
> contradict Wikipedia's version.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_aircraft_carrier_Shinano
and here is a forth:
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/japan/jap_cv_shinano.htm
that does not differ greatly from the wiki.
"Besides, almost ready hull of a battleship not allowed to place two-level
hangar, therefore it was necessary to manage one-level. Accordingly size
of air group of world largest aircraft carrier was only 42 (47 with spare)
aircraft. But the aviation ammunition stowage was very impressive. Partly
it spoke that it supposed to use Shinano as support carrier, intended for
cover of first line carrier forces and their replenishing by aircrafts and
ammunition."
and here is a fifth:
http://wikimapia.org/2226023/Wreck-of-the-HIJMS-Shinano-%E4%BF%A1%E6%BF%83
Jim H.
Nov 26, 2015, 3:05:45 PM11/26/15
to
On Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 1:54:08 PM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
...........
"The massive Shinano was immediately sighted by the USS Archerfish (SS-311),
an American Submarine ordered to find and sink the carrier sighted by Army
Air Force recon flights earlier in the month. "
That would contradict most other sources that have the Archerfish
on regular patrol and /or planeguard. It would also create issues
with claims that the US was unaware of the Shinano's existence
until after the war, and the captain's claim of sinking a
carrier being downrated to a large tanker.
Maybe it's just a nitpicky detail, but I do hate it when sources
differ so widely. I suppose one would have to go back to the
original log books to actually _know_. I have to wonder what
WWII history will look like after another 100 years of internet
'scholarship'.
On a related note, a quick search didn't turn up any record
of Shinano's wreck being visited, or photos of the wreck.
I'm surprised. But maybe I just feel an uncommon interest
in her due to the linkage thru Drydock #6 in Yokosuka.
Jim H.
...........
>
> and here is a fifth:
> http://wikimapia.org/2226023/Wreck-of-the-HIJMS-Shinano-%E4%BF%A1%E6%BF%83
Now that one is truly interesting....
> and here is a fifth:
> http://wikimapia.org/2226023/Wreck-of-the-HIJMS-Shinano-%E4%BF%A1%E6%BF%83
"The massive Shinano was immediately sighted by the USS Archerfish (SS-311),
an American Submarine ordered to find and sink the carrier sighted by Army
Air Force recon flights earlier in the month. "
That would contradict most other sources that have the Archerfish
on regular patrol and /or planeguard. It would also create issues
with claims that the US was unaware of the Shinano's existence
until after the war, and the captain's claim of sinking a
carrier being downrated to a large tanker.
Maybe it's just a nitpicky detail, but I do hate it when sources
differ so widely. I suppose one would have to go back to the
original log books to actually _know_. I have to wonder what
WWII history will look like after another 100 years of internet
'scholarship'.
On a related note, a quick search didn't turn up any record
of Shinano's wreck being visited, or photos of the wreck.
I'm surprised. But maybe I just feel an uncommon interest
in her due to the linkage thru Drydock #6 in Yokosuka.
Jim H.
cman...@gmail.com
Dec 25, 2015, 10:55:48 PM12/25/15
to
On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 at 12:28:42 AM UTC-5, a425couple wrote:
> interesting " In retrospect, the loss of 50 Ohkas on the Shinano was
> probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
> the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
> five months until April 1945."
> interesting " In retrospect, the loss of 50 Ohkas on the Shinano was
> probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
> the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
> five months until April 1945."
Disagree. Because the Betty carrier aircraft was so vulnerable, the vast
> probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
> the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
> five months until April 1945."
> interesting " In retrospect, the loss of 50 Ohkas on the Shinano was
> probably as important as the loss of the aircraft carrier itself, delaying
> the introduction of the most deadly kamikaze aircraft of all time by nearly
> five months until April 1945."
majority of Ohka's were lost without even being launched. Post-war analysis
found that at best they could claim a couple of destroyers sunk and a couple
damaged.
The most deadly Kamikaze aircraft of all time was the Zeke, because that
could live long enough to actually make it's dive and hit something. Of
course an enormous number of them were shot down as well, but they at least
did some damage.
Chris Manteuffel
0 new messages