"Hogan's Heroes" Issues
Agame...@-ANTISPAM-Home.Com
Hi,
I've been re-living a bit of my boyhood thanks to "Nick at
Night" and "Hogan's Heroes". My Father, who flew a P51 in
the ETO, loved to watch Hogan's Heroes when I was a boy. He
laughed and laughed at the idiocy of the Nazi's on the show.
This was an exception: he was rather ambivalent to most
non-documentary television programming: he thought they were
a waste of time. However, he couldn't resist "Hogan's
Heroes"
I'm curious about some aspects of the program: did many WW2
veterans find it appealing? Were ethnic germans offended by
it? Were there any criticisms of it in Germany during it's
circulation?
For years I've wondered if ethnic german actors,
particularly Werner Klemperer (Colonel Klink), paid any
consequences in their native countries for appearing in the
program.
I've seen Klemperer in several other features, including
"Perry Mason", "Law and Order", and "The Odessa File". He
was excellent in each, a first-rate actor.
Retribution on the part of Neo-Nazis was a concern after Bob
Crane's murder, although his killer was almost certainly a
"hanger-on" close friend of Crane's.
One question I've had since childhood: was it a Third-Reich
custom to end every conversation, whether in person or on
the telephone, with a "Heil Hitler"? Was there a
regulation/law establishing this policy or was it something
that the populace/military "voluntarily" adopted?
Thanks,
Frank
Frank
Remove "-ANTISPAM-" from E-Mail to reply
efr...@mocha.memphis.edu
> I've been re-living a bit of my boyhood thanks to "Nick at
> Night" and "Hogan's Heroes".
[snips]
> I'm curious about some aspects of the program: did many WW2
> veterans find it appealing? Were ethnic germans offended by
> it? Were there any criticisms of it in Germany during it's
> circulation?
I have no idea. I have read that it is currently quite
popular with young Germans (it is syndicated there).
> For years I've wondered if ethnic german actors,
> particularly Werner Klemperer (Colonel Klink), paid any
> consequences in their native countries for appearing in the
> program.
Werner Klemperer was the son of the great (Jewish) conductor Otto
Klemperer, and IIRC a veteran of the US Army. They were expelled from
their homeland in the 1930s, and became US citizens. I don't know how
they were treated postwar by their former countrymen.
I have also read that John Banner (Sgt Schulz) was Jewish
too, but from Vienna. FWIW.
> Retribution on the part of Neo-Nazis was a concern after Bob
> Crane's murder, although his killer was almost certainly a
> "hanger-on" close friend of Crane's.
I haven't read about that concern, but I suppose anything is possible.
> One question I've had since childhood: was it a Third-Reich
> custom to end every conversation, whether in person or on
> the telephone, with a "Heil Hitler"? Was there a
> regulation/law establishing this policy or was it something
> that the populace/military "voluntarily" adopted?
I'm not certain. I doubt that it was officially prescribed for any and
all circumstances; it seems more likely that it was (among civilians) a
spontaneous development used to show one's committment to the Fuehrer,
akin to the Soviet-era stories of people declining to be the first to
stop applauding when Stalin appeared among mortals. I believe it was
called the "Duetsche Gruess" or German Greeting.
Heinz, what do you say?
Ed Frank
George Hardy
says:
>Werner Klemperer was the son of the great (Jewish) conductor Otto
>Klemperer,
>I have also read that John Banner (Sgt Schulz) was Jewish
>too, but from Vienna. FWIW.
Since their German was, in large part, Yiddish, and John Banner
often used Hebrew words in his German, it was clear to anyone
who watched the show that they were Jewish.
Again, people who get their knowledge of history from TV and movies,
especially TV sitcoms, are often sadly misinformed.
GFH
***************************************************************
http://www.ankerstein.org/
The Anchor Stone Building Set (Anker-Steinbaukasten) Home Page
See what makes me tick.
***************************************************************
Mike Fester
> Since their German was, in large part, Yiddish, and John Banner
> often used Hebrew words in his German, it was clear to anyone
> who watched the show that they were Jewish.
> Again, people who get their knowledge of history from TV and movies,
> especially TV sitcoms, are often sadly misinformed.
I'm confused. Where is the evidence that anyone was sadly misinformed?
And what was there to be misinformed about? Surely you don't mean that
someone (like me) who wasn't poised to catch any Yiddish or Hebrew words
missed something important. Although normally I would not be happy
adopting the "ignorance is bliss" line, I'm kinda glad that Banner's and
Klemperer's ancestry was never "clear" to me. Thanks for pointing it
out though, your post tends to support something I've long suspected.
Jim Erickson
efr...@mocha.memphis.edu
and John (Schultz) Banner, to which George Hardy replied:
> Since their German was, in large part, Yiddish, and John Banner
> often used Hebrew words in his German, it was clear to anyone
> who watched the show that they were Jewish.
Maybe it was clear to you, George, but I think your
average 13 year old American viewer (as I was) couldn't
distinguish. (And should we infer from your statement
that non-Jewish actors couldn't have inserted some Yiddish
too? Is the language that hard? Does it take some training
in Kabbala, or what? And since Yiddish -is- basicly a form
of German, I think you expect a lot from your notoriously
monolingual fellow-Amurkins. I would like to hear some
detail about Banner's Hebrew words, though.)
> Again, people who get their knowledge of history from TV and movies,
> especially TV sitcoms, are often sadly misinformed.
Gee, ya think?
Ed Frank
Joelhoopa
edited though because the Heil Hitler greeting that everyone in the show gave
is illegial in Germany.
The "Heil Hitler" greeting was, I believe, said by most German High Command
members. Some officers and lower German people simply refused to give this
greeting. You can find this greeting on most Nazi era German documents though.
James A. Wolf
<re Hogan't Heroes>
>I'm curious about some aspects of the program: did many WW2
>veterans find it appealing? Were ethnic germans offended by
>it? Were there any criticisms of it in Germany during its
>circulation?
Oddly enough it replaced 'Seinfeld' and did well in the ratings. The
main reason for its popularity is simple. Which would you rather have
for grandparents- monsters or morons? I'm sure a number of Germans
were offended. Some Americans also were offended (CF the bruatlly
savage Mad Magazine parody).
But as for the 'sensitivity' of the networks- remember how long it
took to remove 'Amos and Andy'? The nets shied away from small
contrevertial issues, but they never worried about offending many
poeple when ratings were at stake.
This thread reminds me of the 'Dry Bones' tha appeared when
miniseries 'The Holocaust' was aired in Germany. "It just goes to
show the power of American television. NBC's version of the Holocaust
caused more of a reaction than the Third Reich's original."
>Retribution on the part of Neo-Nazis was a concern after Bob
>Crane's murder, although his killer was almost certainly a
>"hanger-on" close friend of Crane's.
I think poeple knew, even then, that Crane's death was related to his
homosexuality and pechant for making his own porn.
<*> James A. Wolf - jaw...@tiac.net - www.tiac.net/users/jawolf <*>
"The jawbone of an ass is |"I'm glad we did the waf- |"To-morrow, when I wake,
just as dangerous a weapon |fle show, glad I tell `ya.|or think I do, what
today as in Samson's time."|GLAD! HA HA HA HA HA HA |shall I say of to-day?"
Richard Nixon |HA!! GLAD!!" Mike Nelson |Samuel Beckett
Philip Plumbly
Agamemnon2@-ANTISPAM-Home.Com wrote in message
<37d94f08...@news.curie.dialix.com.au>...
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I've been re-living a bit of my boyhood thanks to "Nick at
>Night" and "Hogan's Heroes". My Father, who flew a P51 in
>the ETO, loved to watch Hogan's Heroes when I was a boy. He
>laughed and laughed at the idiocy of the Nazi's on the show.
>This was an exception: he was rather ambivalent to most
>non-documentary television programming: he thought they were
>a waste of time. However, he couldn't resist "Hogan's
>Heroes"
>
>I'm curious about some aspects of the program: did many WW2
>veterans find it appealing? Were ethnic germans offended by
>it? Were there any criticisms of it in Germany during it's
>circulation?
>
<Snip>
I've heard that it is quite popular in Germany today, I've seen
it on one of the German satellite channels, I think, Kabel 1,
although I can't swear to that being the correct channel. My
German is pretty poor but I've been told that instead of saying
"Heil Hitler" when they salute, the German soldiers utter
phrases like "The Sunflowers have grown this high"(!)
--
Phil Plumbly
Portsmouth , UK
lan...@concentric.net
very popular program. They apparently find it as funny as we do. Seinfeld
on the hand..........
Eddiejax
>often used Hebrew words in his German, it was clear to anyone
>who watched the show that they were Jewish.
>
Since I never watched the show, I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but this
strikes me as an extremely odd observation. Yiddish was the language of
eastern European Jews, not German and Austrian Jews. It would surprise me
greatly if Werner Klemperer, who was from a highly cultured German background,
ever used Yiddish.
Edward Tannen
lwin
> military. It started in the '50s with "Sergeant Bilko" then "McHale's Navy"
> and "Gomer Pyle". All were heavy handed and bore little resemblance to real
> life. With the exception of "Gomer Pyle", the other shows used the same
> formula: con man and his merry band continually outfox dumb, straight guys
> (Army/Navy brass, prison camp guards) Change the uniforms and the
> nationalities and the plotlines were nearly identical. They were insulting to> anyone who took the military seriously...
There was also the film and play "South Pacific", in which the
Navy men were sort of a "McHale's Navy". Indeed, I wonder if
South Pacific inspired the theme of the TV show.
As to the concept of farcial military shows poking fun, there was a
US TV show a few years back called "Barney Miller" which was a comedy
about police work. It was reported that this show was very popular
among cops because as one officer put it "police work is about dealing
with characters, and that's what Barney Miller is about".
Generally, the satire military/police shows that poke fun at the
brass have been very popular on television. My guess is that
with a few exceptions of the "Captain Binghamtons" out there,
most veterans of all ranks enjoy them.
casita
>as bloody idiots,
I don't see them as idiots, but I am a fan of Hans Helmut Kirsh,
and in those days, in that sort of regime fighting a Total War, it didn't
pay to be too original in your thoughts. The cliche was "Russian Front",
but it probably had some truth. PW camp guards were not likely to be the
elite of any nation, and probably knew that there were more dangerous
duties. They had a permanent camp and were, for a time, relatively safe.
casita
>show because of its absurd and offensive portrayal of POW life.
I saw "King Rat" with George Segal years ago but don't remember it very
well.
Was it considered fairly honest. From what I have learned of Japanese PW
life, I don't think the public could really handle a movie that was too
close to reality.
casita
>show because of its absurd and offensive portrayal of POW life.
Bob Crane claimed ex-PWs were impressed. That has to be BS.
I think Stalag 17 and the Great Escape were accurate, and great
entertainment.
James A. Wolf
>Since I never watched the show, I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but this
>strikes me as an extremely odd observation. Yiddish was the language of
>eastern European Jews, not German and Austrian Jews.
Actually, it was the vernacular of Ashkenazi Jews, which included the
Eastern European, German and Austrian Jewish communities. While by
the 30s, educated and assimilated Jews dropped Yiddish, I'm sure they
still retained a passing familiarity, and some slang.
Douglas Ryerson
Klink and that he served in the South Pacific in the U.S. Military during WW
II.
Daniel James Berger
I once read somewhere that this show had the distinction
of being the only show ever condemned by both Jewish
organizations and the American Nazi Party.
Clearly, it was offending someone, if not the WW2 vets.
Douglas Muir
the show.
Clary was actually a Holocaust survivor; he had spent (IIRC) three years in
the camps, and several members of his family had died there.
Clary said that he was often asked how he could act in a show like _Heroes_.
He replied that he didn't have a problem with it, because (1) it depicted a
prison camp, not a concentration camp; (2) it depicted the Germans as fools,
except for the sinister SS major, who was clearly evil; and (3) it was
obviously fantasy.
Clary also said that he came to be glad he'd done the show, because it made
him a moderately well-known figure. Some years later, when he became alarmed
by the appearance of Holocaust revisionism, he found that it was much easier
for him -- "LeBeau" -- to find audiences than it was for other, less
recognized survivors.
IIRC, he spoke for two hours straight about his experiences in the camps. The
audience sat completely silent... it was a truly eerie experience.
Does anyone know if he is still doing this? IIRC he said he wanted keep on
with it, but that was a while ago.
Doug M.
Frederick J. Barnett Jr.
I know one former prisoner who couldn't have been too upset.
Robert Clary, who played Lebeau, actually spent time in a Nazi
concentration camp during the war. If the show's premise didn't bother
him, I don't think anyone else can complain.
Frederick J. Barnett http://www.eatel.net/~fred/
E-mail: fr...@eatel.net
"Someone's got to take the responsibility if the job's going to get done!! Do you think that's easy?!?" Gregory Peck - The Guns Of Navarone.
efr...@mocha.memphis.edu
and John (Schultz) Banner, to which George Hardy replied:
> Since their German was, in large part, Yiddish, and John Banner
> often used Hebrew words in his German, it was clear to anyone
> who watched the show that they were Jewish.
Maybe it was clear to you, George, but I think your
casita
>Robert Clary, who played Lebeau, actually spent time in a Nazi
>concentration camp during the war.
He was laughing all the way to the bank.
It made the Germans look like idiots, and we know they aren't now and
weren't then.
No Allied PW would be offended by the show, but to anyone who was in the
war, like Art Kramer, it was not to be taken seriously either. It was
just a 60's sitcom, about as relevant as most others.
The "Great Escape" and "Stalag 17" were much more accurate.
Curtis McRae
I remember as a kid (and I write this at the wise old age of 30...) I used
to watch Hogan's Hero's all the time and once I made the mistake of calling
the German's stupid to my Dad. Well... sure enough Stalag 17 was on TV
within a couple months and he made me watch it so I would get a better idea
of POW camps. A bit adult for an 8 year old but it sure changed my view
quite a bit. I just thank God that Shlinder's List (SP?) wasn't released
yet or he would have made me watch that for realism...
On the other hand in junior high my band played the theme to Hogan's Heros
and I still can do the drumming bit ;-)
Curt in WPG
kom...@webtv.net
the series were Jews. Most notably of course is Colonel Klink. There's
also General Burchhalter and Major Hochstaedter of the Gestapo. Sgt.
Schulz isn't Jewish to the best of my knowledge. He also was in the
movie, "36 Hours. Klemperer played Eichmann ironically in a movie as
well. It was really a bad movie by the way.
casita
I believe the late John Banner was Jewish.
kom...@webtv.net
it too late. Also regarding the movie Klemperer was in it was called
"Operation Eichmann."
Franz
sorry I don't have a scanner to show the picture, it is certainly not
Sgt. Schultz.