Hilters Condor aircraft
brandon
had an official aircraft - a large FockeWulf Condor named Immelman II.
(Condor was a large German civilian passenger aircraft designed in the
mid 1930's. It could carry 40 people on non-stop transatlantic journeys
and later pressed into military service in the war).
I got no information beyond this about "Immelman II" and where it ended
up finally. Hitlers Mercedes is in a Canadian museum; I was wondering
if this aircraft was brought by someone at the end of the war and
finished its life in some far away country?
--
Steven Schmid
(in article <dc107h$s25$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu>):
Others on the group probably know more about this than I, but isn't this the
plane that had poor aerodynamic stability, was shot down in the last week of
the war as it was being flown to a different airfield to avoid capture, and
was rumored to have flown to within sight of New York on a training mission?
As I recall, the first two comments are true, and the last is folklore.
Best Regards,
Steve Schmid
--
Keith B. Rosenberg
with that name. It was a JU-52 as it had the typical corrugated skin
on fuselage and wings. I remember reading that Hitler stopped flying
at some point in the war though so any of his "personal" aircraft may
no longer exist.
A website says that a Condor with the name of "Immelman III" was Hitler's
personal plane. http://www.kotfsc.com/aviation/fw200.htm
"brandon" <brando...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dc107h$s25$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
--
Bill Shatzer
> From numerous websites I gleaned the sketchy information that Hitler
> had an official aircraft - a large FockeWulf Condor named Immelman II.
> (Condor was a large German civilian passenger aircraft designed in the
> mid 1930's. -snip-
Immelmann (two "n's") II was a Ju 52/3m. The Fw 200 V-3 used by
Hitler was named Immelmann III.
> I got no information beyond this about "Immelman II" and where it ended
> up finally. Hitlers Mercedes is in a Canadian museum; I was wondering
> if this aircraft was brought by someone at the end of the war and
> finished its life in some far away country?
Greene says the Fw 200 V3 was assigned to the Luftwaffe transport
reserve pool at Berlin-Tempelhof as of September, 1939. Presumbably
it was lost sometime during the war.
Cheers and all,
--
Davide Pastore
> A website says that a Condor with the name of "Immelman III"
> was Hitler's personal plane.
I can add that the plane (register D-2600 or 26+00), being the
third prototype, was similar to the civilian version Fw 200A,
and so much more sleek and elegant than the lumpy Fw 200C;
actually, it was unarmed. It was flown by the "Führer Kurier
Staffel", based at Berlin-Tempelhof and commanded by
(Captain?) Heinz Baur. All my sources agree that the plane
had "a long career", but the details are lacking.
Interestingly, Heinrich Himmler (very incorrectly referred to in
the cited website as "The Gestapo Chief") chose instead as his
personal plane a fully-armed Fw 200C-4/U1 (register GC+AF),
captured by the British in 1945.
--
Davide
"Solo se la vostra visione va oltre quella del vostro maestro,
siete adatti per ricevere e tramandare la trasmissione."
(Massima Zen)
--
Bill Shatzer
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005, Steven Schmid wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 16:12:17 -0500, brandon wrote
-snip-
> > I got no information beyond this about "Immelman II" and where it ended
> > up finally. Hitlers Mercedes is in a Canadian museum; I was wondering
> > if this aircraft was brought by someone at the end of the war and
> > finished its life in some far away country?
> Others on the group probably know more about this than I, but isn't this the
> plane that had poor aerodynamic stability,
While definitely overstressed as a warplane, the Fw 200 seems to have
been perfectly satisfactory in its transport versions and I've seen
no references to any dicey aerodynamic qualities.
> was shot down in the last week of
> the war as it was being flown to a different airfield to avoid capture,
The last Fw 200 remaining in Deutsch Lufthansa service was lost on
a flight out of Berlin by way of Munich for Barcelona two weeks before
the end of the war. However, that a/c was a Fw 200B-2 and not
the Fw 200 V3 originally assigned for Hitler's use.
> and
> was rumored to have flown to within sight of New York on a training mission?
> As I recall, the first two comments are true, and the last is folklore.
The "New York flight" is generally ascribed to the Ju 390 V2 and, yes,
the consensus seems to be that that story is entirely myth. However,
prewar in 1938, the Fw 200 V1 did make a non-stop flight from Berlin
to Floyd Bennet Field on Long Island as a sort of demonstration flight
by Deutsch Lufthansa.
Cheers,
--
Robert Willett
news:dc1mcd$caj$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
> Others on the group probably know more about this than I, but isn't this
the
> plane that had poor aerodynamic stability, was shot down in the last week
of
> the war as it was being flown to a different airfield to avoid capture,
and
> was rumored to have flown to within sight of New York on a training
mission?
> As I recall, the first two comments are true, and the last is folklore.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Schmid
For several years I worked with a German émigré who was a maintenance
officer with a Condor patrol bomber squadron operating out of Norway. The
Condor's range with any kind of payload was well short of trans-Atlantic.
--
Georg Schwarz
> (Captain?) Heinz Baur. All my sources agree that the plane
> had "a long career", but the details are lacking.
I think it ended up in Spain at the end of the war.
--
Georg Schwarz http://home.pages.de/~schwarz/
georg....@freenet.de +49 178 8545053
--
Davide Pastore
> Immelmann (two "n's") II was a Ju 52/3m. The Fw 200 V-3
> used by Hitler was named Immelmann III.
Now the obvious question is: what about Immelmann I ?
brandon
The Condor looks (from the photo) much more elegant than the Lockheed
Electra civilian aircraft used at that time by Americans. But that was
2 engined with 14 passengers but neverthless usd by British leaders
such as Prime Minister Chamberlain to meet Hitler in Munich.
I think Hitler might have had a cushy aircraft in his Condor compared
to Chamberlain or Churchill(?). If I understand correctly Churchill was
flown around in wartime in a refitted bomber which would have rattled
the bones of him.
--
Robert Sveinson
Many of his trips were taken in a B-24 Liberator, piloted by an American
civilian!
"The Man Who Flew Churchill" by Bruce West.
> --
>
--
weasel
It was named "Commando" (thus confusing some to think it was a C-46!).
He also flew in a BOAC Boeing Clipper to at least 1 inter-Allied
conference
(Casablanca?).
Cheers,
Wes
--
Robert Sveinson
news:dc65v8$r3s$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> Eventually Churchill got a nice new C-54 (nee DC-4) from the Americans.
> It was named "Commando" (thus confusing some to think it was a C-46!).
IIRC the B-24 that Churchill used was named Commando!
I could be wrong as it has been a while
since I read the book about it!
--
Michael Emrys
wfmo...@alum.mit.edu wrote on 7/26/05 1:20 PM:
> He [Churchill] also flew in a BOAC Boeing Clipper to at least 1 inter-Allied
> conference (Casablanca?).
Hmmm, if memory serves, it was a return trip from one of the early
conferences in North America, but I'm much too lazy to dig out the relevant
volume of his memoir to look it up.
Michael
--
Andrew Clark
> ... the Lockheed Electra civilian aircraft ... usd
> by British leaders such as Prime Minister
> Chamberlain to meet Hitler in Munich.
>From May 1939, the RAF used de Havilland DH95 Flamingo
airliners for VIP flights. Churchill and other politicians
(and the Royals) used these for all flights up to about 1200
miles.
> If I understand correctly Churchill was
> flown around in wartime in a refitted
> bomber which would have rattled
> the bones of him.
No.
Churchill used a B^Ö24A, code-named Commando, to fly to Cairo
in 1942. This aircraft was used because it had (a) 4 engines
and (b) the range to reach Cairo from Gibraltar without any
intermediate stops. This was important because Churchill was
not well enough to endure the many inoculations against
tropical diseases which would have been necessary had the
plane landed in West or Central Africa for refuelling. This
was the only use of this aircraft.
Incidentally, a Bristol 163 Buckingham transport, with
similar range, was also considered for the trip but rejected
as it had only two engines.
--
geo...@ankerstein.org
> From numerous websites I gleaned the sketchy information that Hitler
> had an official aircraft - a large FockeWulf Condor named Immelman II.
Hitler's Ju 290A-6 was flown to Barcelona on April 27, 1945.
Passengers were disembarked and the plane was just left there.
It was purchased by Spain from the Allies in May, 1950. I
have a picture of it with Spanish markings. It was scrapped
in 1956.
GFH
--
Bill Shatzer
While the Ju 290A-6 was originally conceived as a "Fuhrer Transport",
there's no evidence that it was every used as such.
Upon completion, it seems to have been assigned to KG 200 for
"special operations". Hitler had, in any event, stopped flying
sometime before the A-6 was completed so the need for a "Fuhrer
Transport" had largely ended.
Cheers and all,
--
mike
> The Condor looks (from the photo) much more elegant than the Lockheed
> Electra civilian aircraft used at that time by Americans. But that was
> 2 engined with 14 passengers but neverthless usd by British leaders
> such as Prime Minister Chamberlain to meet Hitler in Munich.
To compare like with like, eyeball the Douglas DC-4 (C-54) or
Lockheed Constellation L-049 (C-69) or Boeing Model 307 Stratoliner
(C-75)(or the Clippers)for four engine types.
**
mike
**
--
T. Fink
> Churchill used a B^Ö24A, code-named Commando, to fly to Cairo
> in 1942. This aircraft was used because it had (a) 4 engines
> and (b) the range to reach Cairo from Gibraltar without any
> intermediate stops.
Did he fly the direct line over axis territory or did he bypass Libya in
the south?
Cheers
Torsten
--
Kill Holzmichl!
--
Georg Schwarz
> Hitler's Ju 290A-6 was flown to Barcelona on April 27, 1945.
> Passengers were disembarked and the plane was just left there.
is it known who were these passengers, and where the plane had taken off
from?
Spiv
You may be confusing Churchill with Montgomery. Monty had a bet with some
US generals - I can't remember their names. If he won he would have a B17
plane from them. He won and held them to the wager. The US generals
couldn't believe he was serious. Throughout much of WW2, I think Tunisia
onwards, Monty had at his disposal, 24/7, a US B17 with a US crew, fully
paid for by the USA. After all, he won the bet.
--
geo...@ankerstein.org
> <geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote:
>
> > Hitler's Ju 290A-6 was flown to Barcelona on April 27, 1945.
> > Passengers were disembarked and the plane was just left there.
>
> is it known who were these passengers, and where the plane had taken off
> from?
It took off from Ainring/Hoerching, near Linz. Who was on
it has not been disclosed, if it is known. It seems that
they passengers just got off and left the airport. The
pilot and crew were returned to Germany. One would think
that the Allies asked them more than a few questions.
GFH
--
Rich Rostrom
>Churchill used a B-24A, code-named Commando, to fly to Cairo
>in 1942. This aircraft was used because it had (a) 4 engines
>and (b) the range to reach Cairo from Gibraltar without any
>intermediate stops. This was important because Churchill was
>not well enough to endure the many inoculations against
>tropical diseases which would have been necessary had the
>plane landed in West or Central Africa for refuelling.
Correct.
>This was the only use of this aircraft.
Wrong.
"Commando" took Churchill from Cairo to Moscow
via Iran, and eventually back to Britain.
Later "Commando" carried Churchill to Casablanca.
Ultimately, "Commando" logged over 320,000 km
transporting Churchill and other British and
Commonwealth VIPs.
Incidentally,"Commando" was captained by an
American pilot, Bill Vanderkloot. He was
selected by the RAF from among the civilian
ferry pilots who were bringing new B-24s
across the Atlantic. He received the OBE for
his work as Churchill's pilot. Vanderkloot
picked three Canadians as his flight crew.
http://www.moaa.org/todaysofficer/include/print.asp?page=/TodaysOfficer/Military/Churchhill_1.asp
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