U-Boats in NY Harbor on November 10, 1942
Will Smith
I found the following information on a web-site devoted to the history of
Fort Tilden, NY:
http://www.geocities.com/fort_tilden/uboats.html
"According to Samuel Eliot Morison's book "The Battle of the Atlantic," the
German submarine U-608 laid 10 mines in New York harbor on November 10,
1942. The first mine was discovered by a sweeper and the New York harbor was
closed for a period of two days, the only time the harbor was ever closed
during the entire war. This corresponds to data from the "War Diary of the
Eastern Sea Frontier" dated November 13, 1942.
'At 1117 Hours, Minesweeper YMS-20 witnessed an underwater explosion two
miles from Ambrose in 40-25-42N; 73-44-00W, bearing 170 degrees True from
minesweeper, range 300 yards. YNS-20 considers explosion actuated by reverse
pulse. Column of water 200 feet high was seen. EDC reports all Army mines
have been accounted for. Explosion evaluated as magnetic mine or old depth
charge. Port entrance closed until 1800/14 while twelve minesweepers operate
in area.' "
Was the continental United States ever actually attacked in WWII? One
history teacher told me, "No," but somewhere else I read a similar account
to the one above that said that a submarine had supposedly fired on New York
City but did no damage.
I would like to know if there are other accounts of this incident and if
anyone knows how it was reported in the New York papers. What agency or
agencies would have investigated the incident? Is there an entry for such an
attack in the Kriegstagebuch of U-608 for that day?
Finally, in the movie Saving Private Ryan, there is a scene where the
Germans are broadcasting over a loud-speaker to the Americans that the
Statue of Liberty had been destroyed. Was this just propaganda, or might the
Germans have believed that their spies or one of their submarines had
actually damaged the monument?
Michael Emrys
wrote on 12/27/04 12:07 PM:
> Was the continental United States ever actually attacked in WWII?
There were a couple of incidents on the West Coast. A Japanese submarine
surfaced off of Santa Barbara, California, and shelled some oil tanks. And
at Camp Rilea north of Gearhart on the Oregon coast, a Japanese sub fired a
torpedo at the beach in a gesture of defiance. Both those incidents occurred
early in the war after the opening of hostilities. Later on, there were the
incendiary (and sometimes explosive) balloons that the Japanese sent against
the western US.
Michael
--
JCarew
>
>I found the following information on a web-site devoted to
>the history of Fort Tilden, NY:
> http://www.geocities.com/fort_tilden/uboats.html
>
>"According to Samuel Eliot Morison's book "The Battle of
>the Atlantic," the German submarine U-608 laid 10 mines
>in New York harbor on November 10, 1942. The first mine
>was discovered by a sweeper and the New York harbor was
>closed for a period of two days, the only time the harbor
>was ever closed during the entire war. This corresponds to
>data from the "War Diary of the Eastern Sea Frontier" dated
>November 13, 1942.
>'At 1117 Hours, Minesweeper YMS-20 witnessed an underwater
>explosion two miles from Ambrose in 40-25-42N; 73-44-00W,
>bearing 170 degrees True from minesweeper, range 300 yards.
>YNS-20 considers explosion actuated by reverse pulse. Column
>of water 200 feet high was seen. EDC reports all Army mines
>have been accounted for. Explosion evaluated as magnetic mine
>or old depth charge. Port entrance closed until 1800/14 while
>twelve minesweepers operate in area.' "
>Was the continental United States ever actually attacked in
>WWII? One history teacher told me, "No," but somewhere else
>I read a similar account to the one above that said that a submarine
>had supposedly fired on New York City but did no damage.
How about Japanese Sub attacks on the West Coast
I lived in the Southern California area at the time. Newspaper
accounts describe the attack as off the Ellwood oil fields 12
miles north of Santa Barbara, and report 16 shells fired, beginning
at 7:15 p.m. on the 24th of Feb. 1942. Three shells struck near
the Bankline Co. oil refinery, the apparent target of the shelling.
Rigging and pumping equipment at a well about 1,000 yards inland
were destroyed but otherwise no damage was caused. One shell
overshot the target by three miles and landed on the Tecolote ranch,
where it exploded. Another landed on the nearby Staniff ranch,
dug a hole five feet deep, but failed to explode. Iv seen this
unexploded 5 1/2 shell with its Japanese markings the owner uses
it as a conversation piece(the Army gave it back to him after the
war minus the powder) Eleven other shells fell short and dropped
into the sea. Description of the attack and damage to the oil
refinery was provided by the superintendent, F.W. Borden. The
first report of the attack was called in to police by Mrs.
George Heaney of San Marcos Pass, who observed the submarine
through binoculars and reported it was about a mile offshore.
Oil refinery worker Bob Miller also called in a report during
the attack. According to the official report of the 11th Naval
District, the I-17 surfaced at 7:10 pm, Pacific War Time (2 hours
ahead of standard time, so about a half hour after sunset),
shortly after Pres. Roosevelt's weekly fireside "chat" began.
At 7:15 pm, the submarine began firing from its deck gun at
the oil refinery. It ceased firing at 7:35 and departed on
the surface; it was observed still on the surface exiting
the south end of the Santa Barbara Channel at 8:30.
For more information see "http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist9/aaf1.html"
Jim Carew
--
Scott M. Kozel
>
> "According to Samuel Eliot Morison's book "The Battle of the Atlantic," the
> German submarine U-608 laid 10 mines in New York harbor on November 10,
> 1942.
> Was the continental United States ever actually attacked in WWII? One
> history teacher told me, "No," but somewhere else I read a similar account
> to the one above that said that a submarine had supposedly fired on New York
> City but did no damage.
The mining of interior U.S. waters would certainly qualify as attacking
the continental United States, even if none of the mines were struck by
a U.S. ship.
In the book _Iron Coffins: A Personal Account of the German U-Boat
Battles of World War II_, by Herbert A. Werner, he has an account of
where his boat had a mine-laying mission to Hampton Roads, Virginia.
I don't have the book at home, but I recall that it was early in the
war, I believe in 1942, and that they laid 24 mines. His description
was not very specific as to exactly where the mines were laid, but my
best estimate (as one who is very familiar with those waters) from what
he wrote, would be about 8 miles inside the Chesapeake Bay and about 4
miles north of Little Creek, or basically in the main shipping channel
about midway between the Hampton Roads estuary and the Atlantic Ocean
(assuming that a straight line between Cape Henry and Cape Charles is
the boundary between the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Ocean).
That would definitely be in the U.S.'s interior waters, and quite a feat
given that in places his boat would be in Chesapeake Bay waters only 30
to 40 feet deep.
--
John Decker
>
>
>I found the following information on a web-site devoted to the history of
>Fort Tilden, NY:
>http://www.geocities.com/fort_tilden/uboats.html
>
>"According to Samuel Eliot Morison's book "The Battle of the Atlantic," the
>German submarine U-608 laid 10 mines in New York harbor on November 10,
>1942. The first mine was discovered by a sweeper and the New York harbor was
>closed for a period of two days, the only time the harbor was ever closed
>during the entire war. This corresponds to data from the "War Diary of the
>Eastern Sea Frontier" dated November 13, 1942.
>
>'At 1117 Hours, Minesweeper YMS-20 witnessed an underwater explosion two
>miles from Ambrose in 40-25-42N; 73-44-00W, bearing 170 degrees True from
>minesweeper, range 300 yards. YNS-20 considers explosion actuated by reverse
>pulse. Column of water 200 feet high was seen. EDC reports all Army mines
>have been accounted for. Explosion evaluated as magnetic mine or old depth
>charge. Port entrance closed until 1800/14 while twelve minesweepers operate
>in area.' "
>
>Was the continental United States ever actually attacked in WWII? One
>history teacher told me, "No," but somewhere else I read a similar account
>to the one above that said that a submarine had supposedly fired on New York
>City but did no damage.
>
-------------------------------------------------------------
The Japanese submarine I-25, housing a small float airplane, surfaced off the
Oregon coast and
conducted two bombing raids on the Oregon forrest---trying to start a fire which
the Japanese hoped
would spread to California cities and reek havoc in the United States. It was
also thought by the
Japanese that the firebombing of the Oregon forrest would help to counter the
propaganda value of the
Dolittle raid over Tokyo by showing the vulnerability of the U.S. by air attack.
The incident was
concealed from the American public by the U.S. government; and historians only
learned of it by the
1960s.
http://history1900s.about.com/library/prm/bljapanesebombwc1.htm
http://www.piscesposters.com/russ/honeymoon/oregon.html
http://blinkynet.net/spag/bomboregon.html
http://www.currypilot.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=2108
JD
--
Bill Shatzer
On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Michael Emrys wrote:
> in article cqpq2b$g...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu, Will Smith at bi...@earth.net
> wrote on 12/27/04 12:07 PM:
> > Was the continental United States ever actually attacked in WWII?
> There were a couple of incidents on the West Coast. A Japanese submarine
> surfaced off of Santa Barbara, California, and shelled some oil tanks. And
> at Camp Rilea north of Gearhart on the Oregon coast, a Japanese sub fired a
> torpedo at the beach in a gesture of defiance.
Perhaps - although that's not a story I've previously heard of. Torpedoes
were sufficiently expensive (and in short supply on a submarine on a war
patrol) that wasting one in such a futile gesture would seem most
unlikely.
Maybe you were thinking of the shelling of Fort Stevens (near Astoria,
Oregon) by the Japanese submarine I-25. The I-25 fired 17 shells at the
batteries at Ft. Stevens - all of which landed in the surrounding
sand dunes and open country and failed to cause any damage.
> Both those incidents occurred
> early in the war after the opening of hostilities. Later on, there were the
> incendiary (and sometimes explosive) balloons that the Japanese sent against
> the western US.
And, in September of 1942, the I-25 launched two bombing raids against
the forests near Bandon, Oregon with its E14Y1 "Glen" float plane. While
the intent was to start massive forest fires, again no significant damage
occurred and, indeed, the US authorities were unaware of the bombing until
some considerable time later.
Cheers,
--
Marvin
U-boats were operating just outsideof NY harbor in 1942, and the lighship is on the harbor approach, not in the harbor.
In my last year of high school in Brooklyn, when we came back to school in Sept. 1942, one of my friends told us of his
adventure. Right after school closed for the summer, he left home one morning without telling his mother where he was going.
He signed up for the merchant marine - they were taking just about anyone then - and was immediately assigned to a ship
ready to sail. A U-boat sank his ship a few miles out, the crew was rescued, and my friend got home before his mother even
knew he was gone.
There were strict blackout regulations at all times along the coast near there, even in Coney Island, which is at the harbor
entrance.
--
David Wilma
--
John Kramer
news:cqpq2b$g...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
>
> I found the following information on a web-site devoted to the history of
> Fort Tilden, NY:
> http://www.geocities.com/fort_tilden/uboats.html
>
> "According to Samuel Eliot Morison's book "The Battle of the Atlantic,"
the
> German submarine U-608 laid 10 mines in New York harbor on November 10,
U608 was a type VIIC and carried no mines. Only the type VIID carries mines.
For more information on the boat(s) look at http://uboat.net/
--
Darrell Criswell
>
>Finally, in the movie Saving Private Ryan, there is a scene where the
>Germans are broadcasting over a loud-speaker to the Americans that the
>Statue of Liberty had been destroyed. Was this just propaganda, or might the
>Germans have believed that their spies or one of their submarines had
>actually damaged the monument?
In the book, Nazi Prisoners of War in the US, the author tells of
German POW's being transported by train from the east coast to POW
camps in the south and west by train. The German POW's were amazed
what efforts the Americans had taken to route them away from all the
"bombed out" US cities. Apparently the Germans had been told the US
was suffering from a massive bombing campaign of its populace by the
Luftwaffe.
--
John Hatpin
Peter Sharpe's "U-Boat Fact File" states that U-608 did indeed lay
mines off NYC on that date. As you say, it was a VIIC, but that
doesn't preclude it from mining operations.
VIICs were capable of launching mines from their torpedo tubes; VIIDs
had five dedicated shafts aft of the tower, which launched a different
type of mine. The tube-launched mines were the TM series (TM =
Torpedomine), whereas the shaft-launched mines were designated as SM
(Shachtmine, or "shaft mine"). Even VIIAs, such as U-31, were used as
mine-layers. TMs were mostly used earlier in the war; SMs came later,
during 1942. [Source: "Type VII U-boats" by Robert C Stern]
So, while VIICs could and did deliver mines (U-608 being only one
example), they were not as well adapted to the task as VIIDs, or, for
that matter, the larger XBs.
Incidentally, tube-launched mines were pretty small, and ten to twelve
(depending on the model) could be launched from a single tube. If
U-608 launched only ten mines, I would guess that, as was common with
TMs, only one tube was used for mine-laying, the other four being
loaded with torpedoes.
--
John H
--
PaulJ
> Finally, in the movie Saving Private Ryan, there is a scene where the
> Germans are broadcasting over a loud-speaker to the Americans that the
> Statue of Liberty had been destroyed. Was this just propaganda, or might the
> Germans have believed that their spies or one of their submarines had
> actually damaged the monument?
Actually, it was neither "just propaganda" nor something the Germans
"believed could have been."
It was fiction, imaginative invention, written by a Hollywood screen
writer, as is the entire story and scenario.
Thomas W Ping
It is said that in September 1942 a sub-launched Japanese seaplane dropped
a few bombs on the Oregon forests, in two separate raids.
--
Thomas Winston Ping
John Hatpin
Michael Emrys wrote:
Also, in September 1942, the submarine I-25 twice deployed an aircraft
that dropped incendiaries on Oregon in the hope of starting forest
fires. Neither attempt succeeded in doing any real damage.
--
John H
reste...@aol.com
Will Smith wrote:
> I found the following information on a web-site devoted to the history of
> Fort Tilden, NY:
> http://www.geocities.com/fort_tilden/uboats.html
>
> "According to Samuel Eliot Morison's book "The Battle of the Atlantic," the
> German submarine U-608 laid 10 mines in New York harbor on November 10,
> 1942. The first mine was discovered by a sweeper and the New York harbor was
> closed for a period of two days, the only time the harbor was ever closed
> during the entire war. This corresponds to data from the "War Diary of the
> Eastern Sea Frontier" dated November 13, 1942.
>
> >
> anyone knows how it was reported in the New York papers. What agency or
> agencies would have investigated the incident? Is there an entry for such an
> attack in the Kriegstagebuch of U-608 for that day?
>
I checked several sources and can't find any references to U 608 laying a
minefield off New York. U boats laid several fields. U 701 - Hampton Roads/
Mouth of Chesapeake, sank 2 ships - Coal carrier SANTORE, anti submarine
trawler KINGSTON CEYLONITE, damaged tankers ROBERT TUTTLE, ESSO AUGUSTA.
U 373 - Cape Henelopen/Mouth of Delaware, sank tug J R WILLIAMS. U66 field at
mouth of Mississippi was either defective or laid in water too deep and was
not detected. U 215 (type VIID minelayer) was enroute to Boston to mine waters
when attacked and sank ALEXANDER MACOMB and in turn was sunk by trawler LE TIGRE
As far as shelling shore, U boats made several surface gun attacks against
ships close to New Jersey shore, including some in daylight which may account
for the reports.
Michael Emrys
in article cqs3ca$6g1$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu, Bill Shatzer at
bsha...@OregonVOS.net wrote on 12/28/04 8:58 AM:
> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004, Michael Emrys wrote:
>
>> There were a couple of incidents on the West Coast. A Japanese submarine
>> surfaced off of Santa Barbara, California, and shelled some oil tanks. And
>> at Camp Rilea north of Gearhart on the Oregon coast, a Japanese sub fired a
>> torpedo at the beach in a gesture of defiance.
>
> Perhaps - although that's not a story I've previously heard of. Torpedoes
> were sufficiently expensive (and in short supply on a submarine on a war
> patrol) that wasting one in such a futile gesture would seem most
> unlikely.
>
> Maybe you were thinking of the shelling of Fort Stevens (near Astoria,
> Oregon) by the Japanese submarine I-25. The I-25 fired 17 shells at the
> batteries at Ft. Stevens - all of which landed in the surrounding
> sand dunes and open country and failed to cause any damage.
Perhaps. The version I gave is the one recited to me by local residents when
I lived in the area late-'70s to mid-'80s. No doubt I should have prefaced
it as folklore or urban legend, but it was as I say widely believed.
YMMV
:-)
Michael
Tank Fixer
In article <cqpq2b$g...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu>,
on 27 Dec 2004 14:07:39 -0600,
Will Smith bi...@earth.net attempted to say .....
>
> Was the continental United States ever actually attacked in WWII? One
> history teacher told me, "No," but somewhere else I read a similar account
> to the one above that said that a submarine had supposedly fired on New York
> City but did no damage.
Your history teacher was wrong.
A IJN submarine shelled around the vicinity of Ft Stevens OR in 1942
--
When dealing with propaganda terminology one sometimes always speaks in
variable absolutes. This is not to be mistaken for an unbiased slant.
Coconut
Why would the U.S. do that?
Best,
Chris
Hal Hanig
"Thomas W Ping" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:cr2c7p$7...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
After the Doolittle raid on Tokyo in April 1942, the Japanese launched some
9,000 anti-personnel and incendiary bomb carrying balloons in November 1944
intending that the high altitude jet streams carry them to the Continential US.
Most of them landed at sea, although some did make landfall in various parts of
the Pacific Northwest.....one was even reported as far east as Michigan. In any
case, the damage caused by them was extremely minimal and the program was
discontinued.
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/jbb.htm
Cub Driver
On 31 Dec 2004 10:33:59 -0600, Coconut <pegb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Why would the U.S. do that?
Why take PWs by train to the Southwest? It was a rather literal
observation of the Geneva convention that soldiers should be housed in
a climate similar to the one in which they had been captured. Probably
the majority of German and Italian PWs in the United States were taken
in the fall of Tunis.
Hal Hanig
"David Wilma" <davew...@aol.comREMOVE> wrote in message
news:cqunqt$v0p$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> Were any ships sunk by mines laid by U-Boats in and around U.S. harbors?
> --
I was living in NYC at that time and, to my best recollection and knowledge,
nothing like that ever happened. If it did, it was the world's best kept secret
of its time.
Merlin Dorfman
Darrell Criswell <dcri...@satx.rr.com> wrote:
...
> Apparently the Germans had been told the US
> was suffering from a massive bombing campaign of its populace by the
> Luftwaffe.
Did any Germans question the ability of the Luftwaffe to bomb
targets 3000 miles from base? Did any ever speak to any Luftwaffe
members who claim to have participated in such missions?
Andrew Clark
"Cub Driver" <war...@mailblocks.com> wrote
> It was a rather literal observation of the
> Geneva convention that soldiers should be
> housed in a climate similar to the one
> in which they had been captured.
Except that the Geneva Convention 1929 says no such thing.
Chapter II, Article 9, reads (US translation from French):
"Prisoners captured in unhealthful regions or where the
climate is injurious for persons coming from temperate
regions, shall be transported, as soon as possible, to a
more favorable climate".
Will Smith
"Marvin" <physche...@cloud9.net> wrote in message
news:cqsuge$pur$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
>
> U-boats were operating just outsideof NY harbor in 1942, and the lighship
> is on the harbor approach, not in the harbor.
>
> In my last year of high school in Brooklyn, when we came back to school in
> Sept. 1942, one of my friends told us of his
> adventure. Right after school closed for the summer, he left home one
> morning without telling his mother where he was going.
> He signed up for the merchant marine - they were taking just about anyone
> then - and was immediately assigned to a ship
> ready to sail. A U-boat sank his ship a few miles out, the crew was
> rescued, and my friend got home before his mother even
> knew he was gone.
>
> There were strict blackout regulations at all times along the coast near
> there, even in Coney Island, which is at the harbor
> entrance.
> --
Note: I am reposting this response, because it never showed up on my server.
I apologize if it looks like a double post.
What is confusing me is the location of Ambrose. I was looking
at a map of New York City Lighthouses, and it shows the Ambrose Lightship on
the south end of what I, not being a native New Yorker, take to be Manhattan
Island, near the Brooklyn Bridge/Lower East Side. If the explosion had been
two miles from that location, it might have been in the outer harbor,
possibly near the Statue of Liberty.
I simulated this scenario in a Flight Simulator. I placed
myself on a ship at those coordinates, and found I was much farther out in
the
ocean, perhaps more in line with where your friend's ship was sunk. I
roughly estimate the distance to be about 10 miles south east of Coney
Island, as it took me about 30 minutes sailing time at 20 knots before the
amusement
park came back into view.
Can you remember if this incident was ever reported in the local New York
City papers? I imagine it would have created quite a stir in the area, since
earlier in the same year, a team of German saboteurs had entered the US via
submarine off the coast of Long Island.
reste...@aol.com
>
> Can you remember if this incident was ever reported in the local New
York
> City papers? I imagine it would have created quite a stir in the
area, since
> earlier in the same year, a team of German saboteurs had entered the
US via
> submarine off the coast of Long Island.
Remembered from a History Channel program about fireboats an incident
from 1943
when a ship being loaded with munitions caught fire. Coast Guard towed
vessel
out into bay while fire boats poured water on it until ship sank.
Incident took place on April 24, 1943, ship was Panamanian ship EL
Estero
Here is link to article.
http://www.navyleague.org/sea_power/aug_02_07.php
--
geo...@ankerstein.org
Will Smith wrote:
> "Marvin" <physche...@cloud9.net> wrote in message
> news:cqsuge$pur$1...@gnus01.u.washington.edu...
> What is confusing me is the location of Ambrose. I was looking
> at a map of New York City Lighthouses, and it shows the
> Ambrose Lightship on the south end of what I, not being a
> native New Yorker, take to be Manhattan Island, near the
> Brooklyn Bridge/Lower East Side.
Not even close. Ambrose Light, now a tower, but at the
time a lightship is:
"The Ambrose Light-tower is situated in 70 feet of water
7.4 miles east of Sandy Hook."
This location is off the New Jersey coast, quite a distance
from New York Harbor.
GFH
Will Smith
<geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
news:cslrv2$a...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
>
> Not even close. Ambrose Light, now a tower, but at the
> time a lightship is:
> "The Ambrose Light-tower is situated in 70 feet of water
> 7.4 miles east of Sandy Hook."
> This location is off the New Jersey coast, quite a distance
> from New York Harbor.
Would it be possible to make out the ferris wheel and the parachute drop at
Coney Island from this distance? I remember reading in one account that a
U-boat captain recalled that he was amazed that New York City was not
blacked-out, and that he was able to get in close enough to see those
landmarks.
--
Marvin
>
> Would it be possible to make out the ferris wheel and the parachute drop at
> Coney Island from this distance? I remember reading in one account that a
> U-boat captain recalled that he was amazed that New York City was not
> blacked-out, and that he was able to get in close enough to see those
> landmarks.
One can see long distances at sea. New York City was blacked out only for air-raid drills, but there were controls on lights
facing the ocean at places like Coney Island. One reason was concern that the lights could be flashed to send signals.
(Like the signal to Pual Revere from the steeple of the North Church in Boston.)
--
Marvin
reste...@AOL.COM wrote:
<snip>
>I checked several sources and can't find any references to U 608 laying a
>minefield off New York. U boats laid several fields. U 701 - Hampton Roads/
>Mouth of Chesapeake, sank 2 ships - Coal carrier SANTORE, anti submarine
>trawler KINGSTON CEYLONITE, damaged tankers ROBERT TUTTLE, ESSO AUGUSTA.
>U 373 - Cape Henelopen/Mouth of Delaware, sank tug J R WILLIAMS. U66 field at
>not detected. U 215 (type VIID minelayer) was enroute to Boston to mine waters
>when attacked and sank ALEXANDER MACOMB and in turn was sunk by trawler LE TIGRE
>As far as shelling shore, U boats made several surface gun attacks against
>ships close to New Jersey shore, including some in daylight which may account for the reports.
>
A lot of what was going on just outside New York harbor was classified. But we all knew something was happening by: enforced
and publicized blackout controls at places like Coney Island; no weather reports on the radio, weather not even mentioned in
radio broadcasts of baseball games; and - most clearly - by oil washing up on beaches.
There were periodic air-raid drills in New York City, with civilian air-raid wardens. Until I went into the Army in June
1943, I was a bicycle messenger in these drills. It was fun to ride my bike in the dark streets with no traffic.
RENABORNEY
>
>> Coney Island from this distance?
SNIP
Not sure about Coney Island, but the ones from the World's Fair were doing
their duty as the 250 foot towers at Jump School at Ft Benning, GA
--
David Wilma
>controls on lights
>facing the ocean at places like Coney Island. One reason was concern that
>the lights could be flashed to send signals.
I doubt that very much. It would be very difficult for a ship at sea to discern
a signal from among thousands of urban lights. If anything, a blackout would
help such a communication by providing a black backdrop.
Any controls of lights would have been to prevent blacked out ships from being
silhouetted and picked out from seaward. This happened in the early months of
the U.S. involvement until cities could be prevailed upon to douse their
lights.
David Wilma
www.HistoryLink.org
The online encyclopedia of Washington state history.
--
geo...@ankerstein.org
> John Kramer wrote:
> .. did indeed lay mines off NYC on that date.
Now that is credible. "Off NYC". That would
include along the northern NJ coast and any where
in Long Island Sound. Both "approaches" were
important. The main route to Europe was through
Long Island Sound. Transports coming from the
south went along the Jersey coast -- past Ambrose
Light.
GFH
--
geo...@ankerstein.org
Will Smith wrote:
> <geo...@ankerstein.org> wrote in message
> news:cslrv2$a...@gazette.corp.bcm.tmc.edu...
> > "The Ambrose Light-tower is situated in 70 feet of water
> > 7.4 miles east of Sandy Hook."
> Would it be possible to make out the ferris wheel and
> the parachute drop at Coney Island from this distance?
It seems that not just Allied airmen were liars. Not
even if he stood on the top of a parascope. Perhaps he
thought that some Jersey coast town was New York.
GFH