Gestapo HQ in Paris?
Max von Weber
for the Gestapo.
I know that the Meurice was the HQ for the Wehrmacht and for Choltitz,
and that the Crillon was the HQ for the Kriegsmarine.
However, I have always thought the Mont Valerien, the site of many
infamous Nazi executions was also the HQ for the Gestapo.
Any information, perhaps from Louis Capdeboscq?
Thanks.
Polar
wrote:
I worked for the U.S. Army in the Hotel Astoria, facing the Arc de
Triomphe. I had been under the impression that *it* was formerly
Gestapo Hq.
Couldn't find "Hotel Astoria" on the Web; so many years later!
anybody else recall this?
Awaiting your input.
--
Polar
--
Max von Weber
..
>Couldn't find "Hotel Astoria" on the Web; so many years later!
>anybody else recall this?
I don't think there is an hotel Astoria in Paris, and certainly not
facing theArch de Triomphe.
Thx4 the input.
Craig Ayres-Sevier
Hotel Astoria is totally out of the question.
Indeed, I took a photo of either "a" or "the" particular building on 4
August 1970
(...last when >I< was in Paris, unfortunately!).
It is of what was, 25-30 years prior, the Maurice Hotel (sure of the
pronunciation but not
the spelling) on Rue Rivoli -- of that I am certain.
Unfortunately on the back of the photo I only noted "HQ 1940-1944," so
my my notes don't
delineate -- not sure if it denotes Gestapo or Wehrmacht, and all my
references today to
clarify the distinction are still in storage.
But it's more to go on, I hope.
Craig.
"Max von Weber" <FLAM...@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message
news:9f932e$2n8$1...@beast.TCNJ.EDU...
Polar
wrote:
OK - I *did* work there, and it *was* called the Hotel Astoria,
but that was so long ago, it could have been torn down or the
name changed, or anything.
I can tell you that I used to take my baths in their huge, luxurious
tubs on the weekend (I lived in a Left Bank hotel with minimal
confort). One day I was in the tub and found there was no soap. So I
got out and walked naked to the next bathroom -- only to run into a
custodian.
But the French are so kewl about stuff...he didn't turn
a hair, and I resumed my bath avec du savon.
--
Polar
--
Max von Weber
>Unfortunately on the back of the photo I only noted "HQ 1940-1944," so
>my my notes don't
>delineate -- not sure if it denotes Gestapo or Wehrmacht, and all my
>references today to
>clarify the distinction are still in storage.
>
>But it's more to go on, I hope.
As I indicated in my posting, the Meurice was the HQ for the
Wehrmacht, and those guys never shared space with the Gestapol.
I have no firm base to allege the Bristol was the HQ, except that
someone I know(not a WW2 veteran), indicated that was the case.
When I asked the question at the Bristol last week, I was greeted by a
look of horror of the concierge, and a statement of "certainement,
non, monsieur!"
However, the French don't shine by admitting their collaboration in
WW2.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Mont Valerien, which today is a
French Air Force barracks inside Paris, was the site of many Nazi
executions. But was it HQ for the Gestapo and the SS?
Max von Weber
>.
>OK - I *did* work there, and it *was* called the Hotel Astoria,
>but that was so long ago, it could have been torn down or the
>name changed, or anything.
Sorry. I did not mean to imply the Astoria didn't exist in 1945, only
that today it isn't there.
So, I'm sure you were there aftdr WW2. Whether it was HQ to the
Gestapo it still unclear to me.
Max von Weber
<n7...@gbis.com> wrote:
..
>It is of what was, 25-30 years prior, the Maurice Hotel (sure of the
>pronunciation but not
>the spelling) on Rue Rivoli -- of that I am certain.
Yes, the hotel is still there, and it is one of the five star hotels
in Paris, spelled the Meurice.
But as I said in a previous posting, it was HQ for the Wehrmacht, not
the Gestapo. Collins and Lapierre, in "Is Paris burning" state so
unequivocably.
But where were the jolly boys in black jackboots?
I ask because I was at the Bristol last week in Paris, and I asked the
concierge. He responded with a horrified, "mais non, monsieur:jamais".
A case of French denial?
Thx for the posting, regardless.
Best, Max
Andrew Clark
"Max von Weber" <FLAM...@hotmail.com> wrote
> As I indicated in my posting, the Meurice was the HQ for the
> Wehrmacht,
The Hotel Raphael was the HQ of the Lt Gen von
Boineburg-Lengsfeld, the Wehrmacht Garrison Commander. The Hotel
Maurice was one of the sites used by the staff of von Rundstedt,
OB West. The Wehrmacht prisons, under the Wehrmacht Field
Security Police, were at Fresnes (also used for Allied POW and
civilian detainees) and the Fort de l'Est.
The Gestapo HQ was, IIRC, a large mansion (not a hotel) on the
Avenue Foch, whose site is marked today with a plaque. The SS
were next door at another mansion, which I think survives but is
unmarked.
> There is no doubt in my mind that the Mont Valerien, which
today is a
> French Air Force barracks inside Paris, was the site of many
Nazi
> executions. But was it HQ for the Gestapo and the SS?
It was the HQ of the Waffen SS base organisation in France, also
used for executions of civilians held for reprisals.
Peter Sampson
So what was the building in the Rue des Saussaies? I stayed in a hotel
there in the 1950s and the place not only smelled of evil but was
viewed with horror by the Parisians.
--
Max von Weber
<acl...@cedar-consultancy.co.uk> wrote:
..>The Hotel Raphael was the HQ of the Lt Gen von
>Boineburg-Lengsfeld, the Wehrmacht Garrison Commander. The Hotel
>Maurice was one of the sites used by the staff of von Rundstedt,
>OB West. The Wehrmacht prisons, under the Wehrmacht Field
>Security Police, were at Fresnes (also used for Allied POW and
>civilian detainees) and the Fort de l'Est.
You probably are right. However, von Choltitz, the last commander of
Paris, was at the Meurice, as Collins and Lapierre state in their "Is
Paris burning" book. In addition, when they filmed the movie on the
book(not the greatest movie rendition of a great book), many scenes
were filmed at the Meurice, on Rue de Rivoli. In order to provide
authenticity, the producers had put a German Wehrmacht flat on the
outside, which provoked tremendous negative reactions in the Paris
people. Eventually, they changed the colors of the flag, and from red,
black and white, went to a uniform grey, with darker shadings, since
the movie was in black and white.
>The Gestapo HQ was, IIRC, a large mansion (not a hotel) on the
>Avenue Foch, whose site is marked today with a plaque. The SS
>were next door at another mansion, which I think survives but is
>unmarked.
Thanks. Your input is new and very useful. Next time I'm in Paris I'll
look it up. Do you remember how far from the Arch de Triomphe it is on
Avenue Foch?
Thanks. Best, Max
Andrew Clark
"Max von Weber" <FLAM...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Do you remember how far from the Arch de Triomphe it is on
Avenue Foch?
The SS building was, I believe, 72 Avenue Foch. The French
Military Museum may have a local guide to Paris in WW2.
Andrew Clark
"Peter Sampson" <PPs...@aol.com> wrote
> So what was the building in the Rue des Saussaies? I stayed in
a hotel
> there in the 1950s and the place not only smelled of evil but
was
> viewed with horror by the Parisians.
11 rue des Saussaies was the French office of the SS RHSA bracnch
responsible for the Jewish genocide. It was occupied by SS
Hauptsturmführer Theodor Dannecker, Eichmann's representative in
Paris and his staff, responsible for rounding up 12,000 Jews from
Paris for the death camps. The other branches of the SS RSHA were
at 31 Avenue Foch.
Glenn A. Steinberg
> 11 rue des Saussaies was the French office of the SS RHSA bracnch
> responsible for the Jewish genocide.
What is your source for all this information? I have a 1990
reprinting of an Allied intelligence map of Berlin from 1945, and
it's indispensable for finding the location of important buildings in
the Reich's capital city.
But I'm curious about finding information about locations in other cities,
including Paris.
sophia
<PPs...@aol.com> writes
>
>So what was the building in the Rue des Saussaies?=20
Ian Ousby in his 'Occupation, the ordeal of France 1940-44' (Pimlico,
1997) says that the Gestapo had an important headquarters at 11 Rue
des Saussaies. The building was ideal for their purposes as before
the war it had been the offices of the French S=FBret=E9 Nationale,
the
equivalent of Scotland Yard or the FBI. Along with the Ave. Foch, the
Rue des Saussaies was used by the Parisians as a euphemism for the
Gestapo.=20
Ousby also mentions that the Vichyite collaborationist death squads
and secret police in Paris had their offices at the Rue Lauriston. A
great many people suffered torture and worse there too.=20
Hope this helps.
--=20
Sophia
Faith in Fabulousness
icq: 93834408
E. McDermott
84 Avenue Foch - Gestapo Headquarters in Paris
June 14, 1940. With the German entry into Paris came Colonel
(Standartenfuhrer) Helmut Knochen. He was the Sonderkommando fo the
Gestapo and had slipped into Paris dispite the fact that Hitler had
forbidden the Gestapo to be involved in France because of it
reputation in Poland. Himmler however instructed Heydrich to
circumvent Hitler=92s orders. They set up offices at the H=F4tel do
Louvre.
Germany Army high command stayed at the Ritz Hotel in Paris.
The Gestapo headquarters in Berlin is on Prinz Albrechtstrasse.
I'm not certain about the location of the The Abwehr - Military
intelligence in Paris.
When discussing the SS in Paris, one should remember its French
components and equivalents. These went through several
reorganizations, and differed between Vichy and Occupied France.
"Andrew Clark" <acl...@cedar-consultancy.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Peter Sampson" <PPs...@aol.com> wrote
>
>> So what was the building in the Rue des Saussaies? I stayed in
>a hotel
>> there in the 1950s and the place not only smelled of evil but
>was
>> viewed with horror by the Parisians.
>
>11 rue des Saussaies was the French office of the SS RHSA bracnch
>responsible for the Jewish genocide. It was occupied by SS
>Hauptsturmf=FChrer Theodor Dannecker, Eichmann's representative in
>Paris and his staff, responsible for rounding up 12,000 Jews from
>Paris for the death camps. The other branches of the SS RSHA were
>at 31 Avenue Foch.
>
>
>
>
remove nospam to send me mail. No I don't want to make a million
dollars =
or earn $53124 in the next two month.=20