"Ranks" in East India Company and among Privateers
Matti Mäki-Petäys
Does anyone know, if there was some kind of rank system
in use in the East India Company, preferably that of the
British, but Dutch/French will do also ?
And about privateers, were there some kind of ranks for
them too, or were they just privateers without any
differencing of age/experience/service to the king/other factor ?
Thanks for the info.
Ian Mac Lure
Matti Mäki-Petäys (Matti.ma...@Iki.fi) wrote:
: Does anyone know, if there was some kind of rank system
: in use in the East India Company, preferably that of the
: British, but Dutch/French will do also ?
I assume you mean rank structure in the HEIC military?
European Officers and men followed the usual British rank
structure. Native Officers and enlisted had their own
ranks. ( Native Officers were junior to all Europeans
The ranks were more or less as follows ( Cavalry/Infantry )
Major rissaldar-major/subadar-major
Captain rissaldar/subadar
Lieutenant jemadar/jemadar
Sgt-Major daffadar-major/havildar-major
Sgt daffadar/havildar
Corporal naik/naik
Lance-Corporal lance-naik/lance-naik
Private sowar/sepoy
A native Major was subordinate to a European Lieutenant
: And about privateers, were there some kind of ranks for
: them too, or were they just privateers without any
: differencing of age/experience/service to the king/other factor ?
Depends. You do know that the HEIC had its own navy ( Bombay
Marine ).
A privateer was basically a licensed pirate. A Letter Of
Marque entitled the privateer to wage war on the King's
enemies. The motive was profit.
--
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***** Ian B MacLure ***** Sunnyvale, CA ***** Engineer/Archer *****
* No Times Like The Maritimes *************************************
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Matti Mäki-Petäys
> I assume you mean rank structure in the HEIC military?
No. I mean the "rank" structure of its captains and officials.
I put "Rank" is quotes just because it's meaning here is
not exact but vague. I used that term anyway, because
I couldn't find a better one.
> Depends. You do know that the HEIC had its own navy ( Bombay
> Marine ).
I figured Bombay Marine was more of an army, but I may be mistaken. Am I ?
> A privateer was basically a licensed pirate. A Letter Of
That's one interpretation. The another one is, that they were also
kind of "auxillary navy". Not in that sense that they would
participate in navy activities, but that they were otherwise
engaged in many warlike actions. Releasing
navy ships from preying on merchats, if nothing else.
My point is that the privateers were useful for their country,
or they would not have been used. Thus I find it unlikely that
they'd be just completely ignored when giving any kind of
commendations for performing great deeds for their
country. "Here's your Letter of Marque, now go and don't
bother us anymore". Even if their motive was profit, I find it
hard to believe that they were never commendated for
anything. I just don't know how were they commendated,
and I'd like to know.
Lee Russell
> "Here's your Letter of Marque, now go and don't
>bother us anymore". Even if their motive was profit, I find it
>hard to believe that they were never commendated for
>anything. I just don't know how were they commendated,
>and I'd like to know.
This wasn't a period where soldiers/sailors got much official commendation
anyway. Succesful commanders might get knighted in Britain. Or you might
be awarded a civil post, say as governor, in Spain or France. Or granted
land. In the US, privateering was seen as some sort of risky capitalist
venture. I think the purpose of the Letter of Marque was to stop the enemy
from legally hanging you as a pirate.
Ken Young
In article <6lo9f2$iib$1...@learnet.freenet.hut.fi>, Matti.ma...@Iki.fi
(Matti Mäki-Petäys) wrote:
> I just don't know how were they commendated, and I'd like to know.
I have never in years of reading history found an example of a privateer
being commended and I can't think of any reason why they should be. The
last thing a privateer captain would want is a heroic action. The evidence
clearly states that the only time they fought warships was when they could
not run. By the way today's privateer was often tomorrows pirate. Captain
Kidd started as a privateer.
Ken Young
HELLGUEST
>
>> I assume you mean rank structure in the HEIC military?
>
>
>No. I mean the "rank" structure of its captains and officials.
>I put "Rank" is quotes just because it's meaning here is
>not exact but vague. I used that term anyway, because
>I couldn't find a better one.
>
>> Depends. You do know that the HEIC had its own navy ( Bombay
>> Marine ).
>
>I figured Bombay Marine was more of an army, but I may be mistaken. Am I ?
No the Bombay Marine was a real Navy but not of Ships of the Line. They
were more concerned with Pirates so they went large numbers of small
ships . A sloop or a frigate was a big ship in that navy as I recall.
Many of the merchants actually carried more cannon than their navy
protectors but lacked enough crew to fght the ship beyond the 1st broadside
with any degree of effectiveness.
They also had high quality Indian (Benghali) troops for Marines who may
have done more to create the Marine amphibious force concept than
any other group.
One other important thing, this was an all volunteer service from which
you could not legally be impressed during war.
Finally IIRC the service was run by a small # of Commodores (1 star) of
whom one was based in Britain and the other 2 or 3 were based in India.
L8R
JD Lail also dba Hellguest
Santiago
In article <6lqfsd$6...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
Lee Russell <Pcl...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> "Here's your Letter of Marque, now go and don't
>>bother us anymore". Even if their motive was profit, I find it
>>hard to believe that they were never commendated for
>>and I'd like to know.
>
>anyway. Succesful commanders might get knighted in Britain. Or you might
>be awarded a civil post, say as governor, in Spain or France. Or granted
>land. In the US, privateering was seen as some sort of risky capitalist
>venture. I think the purpose of the Letter of Marque was to stop the enemy
>from legally hanging you as a pirate.
Half the profits would go to the nation who provided the Letter
of Marque, which, by the way was not the only document needed to prove
that you were not a pirate.
Uruguay is not a province of either Argentina or Brazil thanks
to privateering profits obtained via american Baltimore Clippers and
captains against Portugal and Spain.
--
One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them,
One IP to bring them all and in the zone bind them. - Jesper Skriver
Walter Kaufman
Question: Did the Bombay Marine last until the age of steam? If so,did
they have any steam warships? (paddle sloops or frigates)
Matti Mäki-Petäys
> Half the profits would go to the nation who provided the Letter
>of Marque, which, by the way was not the only document needed to prove
>that you were not a pirate.
And the other documents were ... ?
Santiago
In article <6m2bhk$n1f$1...@learnet.freenet.hut.fi>,
IIRC, a set of three documents were used:
a) One that certified the vessel as a privateer.
b) One that certified the captain as someone authorized by a government.
c) Many that would be used when a ship was captured. When this happened,
a captain and minimal crew would be appointed to sail her to a port
where the vessel & goods would be sold. One of these documents would
be given to the captain, in order to prove, in the case he was hailed
by a man-o-war, that it was a legitimate capture and not a case of
piracy.
My memories are fuzzy, and I am not totally sure about a) and b). I'd
love to be corrected before I make my trip to the National Library where
I first read this info.
Ian Mac Lure
Walter Kaufman (froga...@webtv.net) wrote:
: Question: Did the Bombay Marine last until the age of steam? If so,did
: they have any steam warships? (paddle sloops or frigates)
The crown essentially took over from the HEIC ( after the Mutiny )
and I expect the Bombay Marine went the way of the dodo when the
RN took over. This was in the late 1850's by which time steam
naval vessels were fairly common so the Marine may have had
some small ones.
Wendy Atkin
Matti Mäki-Petäys <Matti.ma...@Iki.fi> wrote in article
<6lg1ms$cc8$1...@learnet.freenet.hut.fi>...
> Does anyone know, if there was some kind of rank system
> in use in the East India Company, preferably that of the
> British, but Dutch/French will do also ?
>
> And about privateers, were there some kind of ranks for
> them too, or were they just privateers without any
> differencing of age/experience/service to the king/other factor ?
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
>
You might be interested to know that the Napoleonic Association (based in
the UK) has several research groups, one of which is the HEICS Study Group
which aims to carry out research into all aspects of the company from 1791
to 1816, with special emphasis on its armies and navy, and the campaigns
and battles in which they were involved. Their contact is Peter Williams,
31 Pembroke Road, Basingstoke, Hants RG23 8QH, England. The Napoleonic
Association has its own website and e-mail address through which you might
be able to pass on any message/queries: www.n-a.co.uk and na....@virgin.net
Hope this is of help.