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Shroud of Turin
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SolomonW
Apr 2, 2013, 4:26:13 AM4/2/13
to
Shroud of Turin is one of the most controversial artifacts in history.
Skeptics say plenty of evidence corroborates a medieval dating, including
carbon-14 tests. These dated the cloth between 1260 and 1390.
But others dispute this using infrared light, multiparametric mechanical
tests and spectroscopy to analyze tiny fibers of material from the cloth,
Giulio Fanti, a professor at the University of Padua, found they were
compatible with fibers dating from around the time of Christ.
ļæ½Crossing the data from the various tests, we arrived at an average dateļæ½
to the time of Christļæ½s death, plus or minus 250 years, said Mr. Fanti,
whose findings were published this month in the book ļæ½Il Mistero della
Sindoneļæ½ (ļæ½The Mystery of the Shroudļæ½), which he co-wrote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9958678/Turin-Shroud-is-not-a-medieval-forgery.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/world/europe/shroud-of-turin-going-on-tv-with-a-word-from-the-pope.html?_r=1&
Skeptics say plenty of evidence corroborates a medieval dating, including
carbon-14 tests. These dated the cloth between 1260 and 1390.
But others dispute this using infrared light, multiparametric mechanical
tests and spectroscopy to analyze tiny fibers of material from the cloth,
Giulio Fanti, a professor at the University of Padua, found they were
compatible with fibers dating from around the time of Christ.
ļæ½Crossing the data from the various tests, we arrived at an average dateļæ½
to the time of Christļæ½s death, plus or minus 250 years, said Mr. Fanti,
whose findings were published this month in the book ļæ½Il Mistero della
Sindoneļæ½ (ļæ½The Mystery of the Shroudļæ½), which he co-wrote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9958678/Turin-Shroud-is-not-a-medieval-forgery.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/world/europe/shroud-of-turin-going-on-tv-with-a-word-from-the-pope.html?_r=1&
robert...@gmail.com
Apr 2, 2013, 12:37:45 PM4/2/13
to
We've been through this in great detail in the past Solly. There can be no doubt it is a medieval 'fake', nice piece of work, but nothing to do with Jesus.
SolomonW
Apr 4, 2013, 4:08:36 AM4/4/13
to
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 09:37:45 -0700 (PDT), robert...@gmail.com wrote:
> We've been through this in great detail in the past Solly. There can be no doubt it is a medieval 'fake', nice piece of work, but nothing to do with Jesus.
I think you are right in a sense but remember our discussions are based on
> We've been through this in great detail in the past Solly. There can be no doubt it is a medieval 'fake', nice piece of work, but nothing to do with Jesus.
the best available information we have, when new evidence comes forward we
need to reassess
Michael Kuettner
Apr 4, 2013, 1:50:08 PM4/4/13
to
Just the same old bullshit, newly rehearsed.
Giulio Fanti is an _associated_ professore for mechanical engineering.
See here :
<http://www.dim.unipd.it/fanti/>
A quick Italian who saw a way to make fast money.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
robert...@gmail.com
Apr 5, 2013, 9:08:36 PM4/5/13
to
ITA Solly, but nothing new has come to light - has it?
Peter Jason
Apr 6, 2013, 12:58:24 AM4/6/13
to
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 19:26:13 +1100, SolomonW
<Solo...@citi.com> wrote:
>Shroud of Turin is one of the most controversial artifacts in history.
>
>Skeptics say plenty of evidence corroborates a medieval dating, including
>carbon-14 tests. These dated the cloth between 1260 and 1390.
>
>But others dispute this using infrared light, multiparametric mechanical
>tests and spectroscopy to analyze tiny fibers of material from the cloth,
>Giulio Fanti, a professor at the University of Padua, found they were
>compatible with fibers dating from around the time of Christ.
>
>“Crossing the data from the various tests, we arrived at an average date”
<Solo...@citi.com> wrote:
>Shroud of Turin is one of the most controversial artifacts in history.
>
>Skeptics say plenty of evidence corroborates a medieval dating, including
>carbon-14 tests. These dated the cloth between 1260 and 1390.
>
>But others dispute this using infrared light, multiparametric mechanical
>tests and spectroscopy to analyze tiny fibers of material from the cloth,
>Giulio Fanti, a professor at the University of Padua, found they were
>compatible with fibers dating from around the time of Christ.
>
>to the time of Christ´s death, plus or minus 250 years, said Mr. Fanti,
>whose findings were published this month in the book “Il Mistero della
>Sindone” (“The Mystery of the Shroud”), which he co-wrote.
>
>
>
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9958678/Turin-Shroud-is-not-a-medieval-forgery.html
>
>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/world/europe/shroud-of-turin-going-on-tv-with-a-word-from-the-pope.html?_r=1&
Why don't they do a DNA analysis on the stains?
Yusuf B Gursey
Apr 6, 2013, 4:07:47 AM4/6/13
to
On Apr 6, 12:58 am, Peter Jason <p...@jostle.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 19:26:13 +1100, SolomonW
>
>
>
>
>
> <Solom...@citi.com> wrote:
> >Shroud of Turin is one of the most controversial artifacts in history.
>
> >Skeptics say plenty of evidence corroborates a medieval dating, including
> >carbon-14 tests. These dated the cloth between 1260 and 1390.
>
> >But others dispute this using infrared light, multiparametric mechanical
> >tests and spectroscopy to analyze tiny fibers of material from the cloth,
> >Giulio Fanti, a professor at the University of Padua, found they were
> >compatible with fibers dating from around the time of Christ.
>
> >“Crossing the data from the various tests, we arrived at an average date”
> >to the time of Christ´s death, plus or minus 250 years, said Mr. Fanti,
> >whose findings were published this month in the book “Il Mistero della
> >Sindone” (“The Mystery of the Shroud”), which he co-wrote.
>
> >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9958678/Turin-...
> On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 19:26:13 +1100, SolomonW
>
>
>
>
>
> <Solom...@citi.com> wrote:
> >Shroud of Turin is one of the most controversial artifacts in history.
>
> >Skeptics say plenty of evidence corroborates a medieval dating, including
> >carbon-14 tests. These dated the cloth between 1260 and 1390.
>
> >But others dispute this using infrared light, multiparametric mechanical
> >tests and spectroscopy to analyze tiny fibers of material from the cloth,
> >Giulio Fanti, a professor at the University of Padua, found they were
> >compatible with fibers dating from around the time of Christ.
>
> >“Crossing the data from the various tests, we arrived at an average date”
> >to the time of Christ´s death, plus or minus 250 years, said Mr. Fanti,
> >whose findings were published this month in the book “Il Mistero della
> >Sindone” (“The Mystery of the Shroud”), which he co-wrote.
>
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/30/world/europe/shroud-of-turin-going-...
>
> Why don't they do a DNA analysis on the stains?
how do we get God's Y-Chromosome for the paternity test?
> Why don't they do a DNA analysis on the stains?
Bryn
Apr 6, 2013, 11:58:05 AM4/6/13
to
Peter Jason
Apr 6, 2013, 8:36:41 PM4/6/13
to
Mitch Bujard
Aug 5, 2013, 3:07:04 AM8/5/13
to
Mitch
robert...@gmail.com
Feb 8, 2014, 4:16:46 PM2/8/14
to
Well said.... the 'blood' is paint. Let me repeat my personal theory on the source and possible history of this fascinating 'relic'...
A man, (who looks rather like the medieval idea of Jesus) dies of high fever in a hospital attached to some abbey, somewhere around the 11th of 12th century. His body is tightly wrapped in a linen shroud, and left for some time in rather hot weather. Decomposition sets in rather rapidly, staining the shroud and producing a change in the material. He is unwrapped and buried.... and the shroud sent to the laundry for reuse.
Before the days of biological washing powder, the stain is now fixed, imprinted on the white material permanently by acid (I suspect) interaction with the cloth. It is probably hung out to dry after little more than a quick rinse, in hot sunshine, and strong UV from the sunlight also affects the chemical degradation of the cloth - rather like a grisly photographic process. This explains the well-noted '3D' appearance of the image.
Someone notices this strange image while it is hanging out to dry, and either thinks it is 'a miracle', or, more likely, sees an opportunity of creating one. Things like the damage done by a crown of thorns, stigmatae, and a spear wound in the side are subtly added with paints and dyes, and hey presto - one magnificent cash cow for some religious institution. Of course, an elaborate 'history' is created at the same time.
IMO it really is a miracle, a miracle that wishful thinking and 'faith' probably extracted a fortune from gullible pilgrims over the years. Careless handling and repairs, display by candle light, infusion with incense fumes for centuries plus an unfortunate fire, make modern analysis of the C14 content unreliable. The dust and pollution of centuries add to the confusion.
And so we reach today, where wishful thinking and blinkered belief in this ingenious fraud take everything to a whole new level. This is my theory...
A man, (who looks rather like the medieval idea of Jesus) dies of high fever in a hospital attached to some abbey, somewhere around the 11th of 12th century. His body is tightly wrapped in a linen shroud, and left for some time in rather hot weather. Decomposition sets in rather rapidly, staining the shroud and producing a change in the material. He is unwrapped and buried.... and the shroud sent to the laundry for reuse.
Before the days of biological washing powder, the stain is now fixed, imprinted on the white material permanently by acid (I suspect) interaction with the cloth. It is probably hung out to dry after little more than a quick rinse, in hot sunshine, and strong UV from the sunlight also affects the chemical degradation of the cloth - rather like a grisly photographic process. This explains the well-noted '3D' appearance of the image.
Someone notices this strange image while it is hanging out to dry, and either thinks it is 'a miracle', or, more likely, sees an opportunity of creating one. Things like the damage done by a crown of thorns, stigmatae, and a spear wound in the side are subtly added with paints and dyes, and hey presto - one magnificent cash cow for some religious institution. Of course, an elaborate 'history' is created at the same time.
IMO it really is a miracle, a miracle that wishful thinking and 'faith' probably extracted a fortune from gullible pilgrims over the years. Careless handling and repairs, display by candle light, infusion with incense fumes for centuries plus an unfortunate fire, make modern analysis of the C14 content unreliable. The dust and pollution of centuries add to the confusion.
And so we reach today, where wishful thinking and blinkered belief in this ingenious fraud take everything to a whole new level. This is my theory...
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