Scottish Discovery of America 1398 to 1399 A.D. Prince Henry Sinclair
Susan M. Grady
Ancient ‘footprints’ can be found in North America.
These sparse bits of evidence provide justification for believing that
Prince Henry Sinclair came to North America ninety-four years before
Christopher Columbus sailed across the ocean! These are real things;
you can see them and touch them. Then you can see with your own eyes
how significant Prince Henry Sinclair was in the pageant of our
history.
Prince Henry Sinclair was born in Scotland in 1345. He was Jarl
(Earl) of the Orkney Islands off the northeast coast of Scotland. He
held these islands as a fief from the king of Norway. The mother of
Prince Henry Sinclair was descended from two kings of Norway. Prince
Henry was also Lord of Rosslyn, six miles south of Edinburgh,
Scotland. From 1398 A.D. to 1399 A.D. Prince Henry Sinclair sailed to
North America. In 1400 the English launched a surprise attack on the
city of Kirkwall in the Orkney Islands and the English soldiers killed
Prince Henry Sinclair. He wanted to make a second voyage to North
America in order to set up a colony there.
The family of Prince Henry Sinclair is descended from the Norwegian
Viking Hrolf Ganger (Rolf the Walker) or Rollo. In French it is
Rollon. He received this name because he was too tall to ride his
horse. So he walked. The son of the Norwegian noble Jarl (Earl)
Rognvald of Alesund (He served King Harald Farquar (Fairhair) of
Norway.), Rollo kept raiding northern France. In order to make peace
with this marauding Viking, Charles III, Charles the Simple, King of
France, signed a treaty with Rollo in the village of St.
Clair-sur-Epte (thirty miles southeast of Rouen) in 911 A.D. In
return for Rollo’s being baptized a Christian and keeping new
Vikings from raiding northern France, King Charles gave Rollo much
land in northern France. This became the French province of Normandy
(Northman’s land or Norseman’s land.) Rollo married Popa,
the daughter of Count Béreanger of Bayeux, France. Their descendants
were William the Conqueror and the Sinclairs.
At the Battle of Bannockburn, Scotland on June 23, 1314, King Robert
the Bruce and his Scots army defeated King Edward II of England and
his army, thus winning for Scotland its independence from England.
Sir Henry Sinclair, the great-grandfather of Prince Henry Sinclair and
his son William Sinclair (the grandfather of Prince Henry Sinclair),
joined this battle toward the end with a number of knights who carried
shields and banners with no designs on them. They were Knights
Templar whose order had been disbanded by King Phillip IV (Phillip the
Fair) in France in 1307 A.D., but who had fled to Scotland in order to
avoid persecution. Their shields and banners had no designs on them
so that no one would know who they were. The English soldiers knew
who they were and fled the battle because the Knights Templar were
such fierce warriors.
Zeno Narrative
A primary document of Henry Sinclair’s voyage to North America
is the “Zeno Narrative.” From 1390 to 1404, Niccolo and
Antonio Zeno of Venice, Italy kept a log of their travels with Prince
Henry Sinclair. Their records lay forgotten until a great-great-great
grandson discovered them in the family archives and published them in
Latin in 1558. In 1398 A.D. Prince Henry Sinclair sailed in ten ships
with 300 men and his Italian navigator, Sir Antonio Zeno, from the
Orkney Islands to Icleand, then to Greenland and six days from
Greenland to Newfoundland, Canada. The Indians in Newfoundland were
unfriendly. They shot at Prince Henry’s men, wounding and
killing some of them. Therefore, Prince Henry left Newfoundland and
continued on to Nova Scotia. A portion of the Zeno Narrative is as
follows:
“We brought our barks and our boats to land, and
on entering an excellent harbor,
we saw in the distance a great hill that poured forth smoke,
which gave us hope
that we should find some inhabitants. Neither would
Sinclair rest, though it was
a great way off, without sending 100 soldiers to
explore the country, and bring
us an account of what sort of people the inhabitants
were.”
This land was Nova Scotia, Canada. Historians know this because that
is the only place on the coast of North America having the open pitch
deposits described in the Zeno Narrative. The deposits can be found
at Pictou and Stellarton, where native Micmac Indians lived in caves.
The year in which Sinclair explored America was determined by the
tradition of naming discoveries from the religious calendar.
Sinclair dubbed their anchorage “Trin Harbor.” Trin
stands for Trinity. In Zeno’s words, the fleet arrived when
“the month of June came in.” The only year between 1395
and 1402, the time frame of the voyage when Trinity Sunday fell in
early June was 1398.
Zeno Map of the North
The Zeno Narrative tells of a careful survey of Greenland conducted
by Niccolo Zeno in 1393 for Prince Henry Sinclair. This Zeno Map of
the North proved to be the most accurate map in existence for the next
150 years. It is believed that Christopher Columbus had this map with
him when he sailed to the Western Hemisphere in 1492. Prince Henry
Sinclair’s grandson met Christopher Columbus on the island of
Madeira in the Atlantic Ocean and told him about his
grandfather’s voyage. Columbus’ wife was born on Madeira.
Her father was a ship captain and an explorer.
Not only did the Zeno Map chart the sea with uncanny precision, it
also showed certain landmarks. For example, it illustrated two cities
in Estotilanda (Nova Scotia) possibly founded by Sinclair, at
Louisburg Harbor and St. Peter’s. There is speculation that
Zeno based his map upon a much older chart, drawn by Knights Templar
in the Middle East, and carried in secrecy by them for safekeeping to
Rosslyn Castle (Sinclair’s ancestral home, six miles south of
Edinburgh, Scotland) at the time the Knights Templar (a
military-religious order founded in the Middle East in 1118) was
suppressed by King Phillip IV (Phillip the Fair) of France in 1307.
Descendants of some of these Knights Templar sailed with Prince Henry
Sinclair to North America in 1398 A.D. Some of the Knights Templar
who fled from France to Scotland in order to escape being persecuted
by King Phillip settled at the village of Ballantrocoh (Now it is
called Temple.) near Rosslyn.
Castle at the Cross
In the backyard of the home of Glenn Penoyer in the village of New
Ross, 17 miles north of Chester, Nova Scotia Province, Canada, there
is an area called The Castle at the Cross. Only ruins remain today of
an ancient structure. Researchers believe it was built by 14th
Century Norsemen and Scots, based on designs in the rubblework
masonry. Several items were found around these ruins, including a
much corroded pin, portion of a sword blade, wooden cones, and bits
and pieces of iron implements. From the scanty ruins, it is thought
that the Castle had guard towers, a main gate with pillars, and a dome
or cone. Some historians believe this was a settlement by Prince
Henry Sinclair, as shown in the lower left of the famous Zeno Map of
the North.
Cannon
At the Battle of Crecy in 1346 A.D., cannons were used for the first
time in Europe. The English defeated the French in this battle. By
the year 1381, Carlo Zeno, the hero of Venice, Italy, employed cannon
on board his ships to win the Battle of Chioggia where he defeated the
navy of Genoa. Niccolo and Antonio Zeno knew how to make these
cannons. Prince Henry Sinclair needed not only the navigational
talents of the Zeno brothers, he also needed their knowledge of the
new weapons. (A ship carrying Niccolo and Antonio Zeno ran aground in
a storm in the Shetland Islands off the northeast coast of Scotland.
Prince Henry Sinclair was Lord of Rosslyn, six miles south of
Edinburgh, Scotland and Jarl (Earl) of the Orkney and Shetland Islands
off the northeast coast of Scotland. He held these islands as a fief
from the King of Denmark. Prince Henry came upon the Zenos’
ship just after it ran aground and he prevented the Shetland Islanders
from killing the Zeno brothers and the ship’s crew and taking
away the cargo.)
Found about 1849 on the shoreline of Louisburg Harbor on Cape Breton
Island (part of Nova Scotia, Canada), was a primitive cannon.
Presumably, this gun was from Prince Henry’s fleet in 1398. It
had eight rings around its barrel, and a detachable breech with a
handle. Several very similar cannons can be seen at the Naval Museum
in Venice. These are the sane type as those used by Carlo Zeno at the
Battle of Chioggia. They became obsolete by the end of the 14th
Century. Later cannons were made in a single piece without that kind
of barrel rings.
Oak Island
Oak Island is Mahone Bay of Golden River, near Chester, Nova Scotia
Province, Canada, is one of only two islands, in a group of 350, where
oak tress grow. Oak Island is believed to have served as a
navigational aid to find the Castle at the Cross. From Oak Island,
looking toward the mainland of Nova Scotia, the river leading to the
Castle is to the right. The Celtic word for “oak” also
means both “right” and “door.” This island
facing the Atlantic Ocean hold some mysteries, including the famous
Money Pit.
Money Pit
Mystery shrouds the Money Pit, which is a deep hole at the center
portion of Oak Island. Is it the source of the gold panned from the
nearby Golden River? Or did Prince Henry deposit some Knight Templar
treasures in this hiding place? Was the Holy Grail placed her for
safekeeping by Knights Templar who were looking for a new place to
live where no one would ever bother them again?
The Pit was discovered by three boys in 1795. At a depth of two
feet there was a layer of stones. At 10 feet lay the first of many
oak log platforms, set at 10 foot intervals, as the depth increased.
In 1802, the Onslow Company discovered more of the log platforms,
going down to 90 feet. In 1849 the Truro Company drilled augur holes
near the existing cavity. At the 154-foot level the drill went
through a 5-inch oak platform and dropped 12 inches further until it
struck another oak platform. Then it went through 22 inches of metal
scrap, including an ancient watch chain! At further depths, the oak
reappeared, followed by another 22-inch layer of metal fragments.
After the next layer of oak, the diggers found 6 inches of spruce
wood. Still other digs produced some scraps of parchment, with
letters that looked like “vi” in hand script. At the
171-foot level an iron plate appeared. Excavation is very difficult
because tunnels go diagonally from the ocean into the pit, constantly
filling the pit with water. Then in 1909, the famous treasure hunter
Franklin D. Roosevelt, U.S. President, purchased many shares in the
Old Gold Salvage and Wrecking Company, which did more exploring at the
money pit, but to no avail. More than $2million had been poured into
this Money Pit in search of treasure!
Westford Knight
Evidence suggests that Prince Henry Sinclair sailed south of Nova
Scotia in 1399 A.D. to the shores of Massachusetts, leaving his
historic imprint. On a hillside next to the present Depot Street, in
Westford, Massachusetts, twenty miles west of Boston, lies a ledge
bearing the carved outline of a Medieval knight. He holds a broken
sword, a symbol that a brave knight died in the field. This figure
bears a shield displaying the arms of the Gunn family, kinsmen of the
Sinclairs. The helmet ifs of the bascinet type, in common use among
North Britons only between 1375 and 1400. The Gunn family has its
roots in Caithness, Scotland (northeast Scotland), near the Sinclair
lands. It is probable that the Westford Knight represents Prince
Henry’s friend and kinsman, Sir James Gunn. In the public
library in Westford there is a stone that has a carving on it of one
of Prince Henry Sinclair’s ships.
Glooscap Legends
While no written documents are preserved from the Micmac Indians of
the 14th Century in Nova Scotia, Canada, their songs and legends have
carried history forward, generation after generation. In fact, the
Micmac legends record what Sinclair, whom they called
“Glooscap” the “deceiver” (This term is a
compliment because it meant that he was skilled in deceiving his
enemies.) did in Nova Scotia after he sent his navigator Antonio Zeno
back to Europe in the fall of 1398. Historians believe that Sinclair
and his men remained with the Micmacs through on winter and left the
next summer. Then, according to the songs, “Glooscap”
ventured southward, perhaps to the Massachusetts coast. It is obvious
that the Europeans gained the respect and the affection ot the
Indians. So great was the influence of Sinclair that the Micmacs
still celebrate “Glooscap” every year! The saga records
that this white god explored much of Nova Scotia. His winter base may
have been at Cape d’Or, Nova Scotia, where it is said that he
and his men built a new ship. One of the ballads still chanted by the
Micmacs today asserts:
“Glooscap was the first,
First and greatest,
To come into our land
Into Nova Scotia”
Sinclair’s kind and friendly manner won the hearts of the local
Indians. He treated them fairly and he taught them useful crafts.
One such skill was how to fish with nets. For Sinclair’s
sailors from the Orkney Islands, fishing was a natural pastime. Even
today, references to “Glooscap” abound throughout Nova
Scotia and the Glooscap Legends have been written down.
Norumbega Tower
Prince Henry Sinclair and his men had a mission to explore and to
establish settlements. There were some “rubblework” ruins
and walls along the Charles River in Waltham, Massachusetts, a suburb
west of Boston, from which the Norumbega Tower was reconstructed.
While local tradition holds that this structure dates back to the
Viking Age; it is possible that it was built by Prince Henry.
Newport Tower
Some archaeologists believe that the Newport Tower in Touro Park in
Newport, Rhode Island was constructed in the 1400’s. Is it
possible that Prince Henry’s crew built it? Some people believe
so. Its stone architecture is certainly that of northern Europe in the
Middle Ages (Romanesque Architecture). All its measurements are based
on the Scottish “Ell Stick”, not the English foot, which
was the standard of measurement in ancient Scotland. One ell equals
about 9.2 inches. It has eight arches within a round tower, bearing a
striking resemblance to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Orphir,
Orkney, where Sinclair was Prince. He certainly was aware of its
shape and design. Also it is the design of the original Church of the
Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem which existed when the Knights Templar
were living in Jerusalem (1118 A.D. to 1244 A.D.) Knights Templar
accompanied Prince Henry Sinclair on his voyage to North America. The
closest source for the gypsum used to hold the stones of the Newport
Tower together was Nova Scotia, Canada. The tower was used as a
watchtower and a signal tower. A fire was constantly kept lighted in
a fireplace inside the tower on the second floor. The light from the
fireplace shown through a window out into Narragansett Bay so that
arriving ships would know where Prince Henry was located and so that
Prince Henry could send signals to encampments further down the coast.
Archaeologists have studied the remains of the fireplace and have
said that this type of fireplace was not built after 1400 A.D.
Rosslyn Chapel
Prince Henry Sinclair’s grandson, Sir William Sinclair, built
Rosslyn Chapel, six miles south of Edinburgh, Scotland in 1446. It
contains pagan carvings, religious carvings, and carvings of Knights
Templar. Sir William Sinclair, the grandfather of Prince Henry
Sinclair, is buried in Rosslyn Chapel and his tomb is on the main
floor. There are two plants known only in the New World that are
carved in Rosslyn Chapel. They are: Indian corn and aloe cactus.
This further proof that Prince Henry Sinclair made his voyage because
this chapel was built before Christopher Columbus went to the Western
Hemisphere in 1492.
If you would like more information about Prince Henry Sinclair,
please contact Mr. Neil St. Clair of the Prince Henry Sinclair Society
of North America. His E-mail address is:
His mailing address is:
Mr. Neil St. Clair
19 Soley Cove Road
Lower Economy
Nova Scotia BOM 1J0
Canada
Books About Prince Henry Sinclair
Pohl, Frederick J. Prince Henry Sinclair. NY, NY: Clarkson N.
Potter, Inc. 1974 The author
is deceased.
Sinclair, Andrew. The Sword and the Grail. NY, NY: Crown Publishers,
Inc. 1992
White, Richard W. Sword of the North. Ottawa, IL: Jameson Books,
Inc. 1983. A novel about
Prince Henry Sinclair and his voyage to North America in 1398
These books are out of print in the United States. They may be
purchased from:
Mr. Ian Sinclair
Noss Head Light House
Near Wick
Caithness KW1 4QT
Scotland
United Kingdom
E-mail: iansi...@nosshead.freeserve.co.uk
Finnan, Mark. The Sinclair Saga. Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada:
Formac Publishing Company
Limited, 1999. May be ordered from Barnes and Noble Bookstores.
Their Internet website is:
www.barnes and noble.com
Fowler,Elaine Sinclair. Who Was the Scottish Medieval Knight Prince
Henry Sinclair? A
children’s book Price $6.95. You may also purchase from
her a teacher’s curriculum guide
for children about Prince Henry Sinclair. Price $7.95. These
books may be ordered from:
Elaine Sinclair Fowler, P. O. Box 11, South Hero, Vermont 05486.
Telephone:
(802) 372-4557. E-mail address: e...@together.net
Brian M. Scott
news:46450e1d.03042...@posting.google.com in
soc.history.medieval:
[...]
> The family of Prince Henry Sinclair is descended from
> the Norwegian
> Viking Hrolf Ganger (Rolf the Walker) or Rollo. In French
> it is Rollon. He received this name because he was too
> tall to ride his horse. So he walked. The son of the
> Norwegian noble Jarl (Earl) Rognvald of Alesund (He served
> King Harald Farquar (Fairhair) of Norway.),
The epithet is <hárfagri> in Old Norse; it has nothing to do
with the name <Farquar>. Nothing much is known for sure about
Rollo, including his name; see Rob Helmerich's article at
<www.hrolfr.com>.
[snip Westford Knight, Newport Tower, and other such tired
rubbish]
Brian
Kel Rekuta
>
> The Scottish Discovery of America
>
> Ancient ‘footprints’ can be found in North America.
> These sparse bits of evidence provide justification for believing that
> Prince Henry Sinclair came to North America ninety-four years before
> Christopher Columbus sailed across the ocean! These are real things;
> you can see them and touch them. Then you can see with your own eyes
> how significant Prince Henry Sinclair was in the pageant of our
> history.
Join the New Templars! Get your own polyester Templar
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Take this fantasy crap and stuff it into the nearest
cylindrical filing cabinet where it belongs.
Kel Rekuta
erilar
<kre...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
It's just posted too late; it should have been posted at the beginning
of this month 8-)
Or--heaven forfend--do we have an Inger clone?
--
Mary Loomer Oliver(aka erilar)
Erilar's Cave Annex:
http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo
Gordon Johnson
wrote:
** This is all a matter of personal judgement. - whether the evidence
is strong enough top convince you or not. Living 3 miles from Noss
head Lighthouse, I know Ian Sinclair, curator of the Clan Sinclair
Centre, and a more down-to-Earth fellow you could not meet.
So, there is some evidence of early visits to North America, and while
it does not prove that Prince Henry was there, the evidence does not
DISPROVE it.
You takes your own choice.
Gordon.
Gordon Johnson's website:
<www.kinhelp.co.uk>
with genealogical help plus pre-1700 genealogical
indexes, as well as professional research option.
William Black
"Susan M. Grady" <Susan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:46450e1d.03042...@posting.google.com...
>. Their shields and banners had no designs on them
> so that no one would know who they were. The English soldiers knew
> who they were and fled the battle because the Knights Templar were
> such fierce warriors.
Arghhh.... Templers, (although we can't tell as they've got no device...)
run away...
> At the Battle of Crecy in 1346 A.D., cannons were used for the first
> time in Europe.
Unless they were a form of early land mine...
. It
> had eight rings around its barrel, and a detachable breech with a
> handle. Several very similar cannons can be seen at the Naval Museum
> in Venice. These are the sane type as those used by Carlo Zeno at the
> Battle of Chioggia. They became obsolete by the end of the 14th
> Century. Later cannons were made in a single piece without that kind
> of barrel rings.
Wonder why there were loads of them found in the sixteenth century Mary
Rose...
<rest of bollocks snipped, I get bored easily these days>
Why can't these people just take their tablets, I see this plonker has even
put his/her telephone number at the end of the post...
--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
Tobie L. anderson
Susan,
Unlike some of the critics who posted their usual negativity in
response to your writing about Henry Sinclair; I liked what you wrote.
It is consistent with a lot of other written material and I have been
fortunate to have seen and read some of the out of print literature
you cite.
Does this mean I am a total true believer? Well, no, not exactly, but
it is certainly an alternative set of "facts" to consider for the
"Columbus discovered America" believers who will go out of their way
to discount anything to the contrary.
These people even discount the rumor that Columbus in his early
sailing years visited Iceland with remarks like: "Just because his son
wrote that he did, doesn't make it true."
Naturally the theory that Columbus's family was of Norwegian origin
really drives them nuts.
But I digress. You got my thumbs up on the "Henry Sincliar was here
before Columbus" theory. Now stand back and wait for the whiners and
complainers.
Have a nice day!
The Viking Guy
Dick Wisan
>
>In article <3EA7E0D8...@sympatico.ca>, Kel Rekuta
><kre...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>> "Susan M. Grady" wrote:
>> >
>> > The Scottish Discovery of America
>> >
>> > Ancient ‘footprints’ can be found in North America.
>> > These sparse bits of evidence provide justification for believing that
>> > Prince Henry Sinclair came to North America ninety-four years before
>>
>> Take this fantasy crap and stuff it into the nearest
>> cylindrical filing cabinet where it belongs.
>
>of this month 8-)
>
>Or--heaven forfend--do we have an Inger clone?
That's what I rather thought. Given that genealogy of Henry Sinclair,
this seems more a Swedish discovery than a Scottish one.
--
R. N. (Dick) Wisan - Email: wis...@catskill.net
- Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
- Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.
Inger E Johansson
Henry Sinclair was married to a daughter(out of wedlock btw) to the Swedish
King. That's why he had the chance paying tribute to become the
Norse-Swedish King's Jarl. As fostre Henry Sinclair sent three persons to
Marstrand, an Island north Gothenburg. One of them was a cousin of his who
due to closer relation to the Scandinavian Royalty had been his competator
to the Earldom of Orkney.
In order to become Earl of Orkney, Sinclair was at the same time Scotish and
Swedish nobleman...., Henry Sinclair had to give his brother their
inheritance on their mother's side in Scotland.
The voyages he preformed to Greenland and NA were voyages for the Norwegian
King. Among the items he carried from NA to Trondheim was a whiteheaded
eagle later transported on an Hansan ship via Novgorod and in caravans along
the Silkroad all the way to the Emperor of China.
Inger E
"Dick Wisan" <wis...@catskill.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:b8eom...@enews3.newsguy.com...
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
black_...@hotmail.com (William Black) wrote:
> <rest of bollocks snipped, I get bored easily these days>
The Zeno narrative exists. I came across it in a book called Phantom
Islands of the Atlantic which I seem to have mislaid. From memory
though. There are several problems using it as a source though. First
the original manuscript vanished without trace. All that exists is the
published version. I believe the grandnephew claimed the original had
been destroyed in a fire. Next the names in it of places do not
correspond with any modern ones. The correlation has to be made by
context. This includes who they worked for. There is no reason to
believe they discovered America though, given the navigation problems
of the day the entire narrative could have taken place in the various
northern island groups. Finally there is no mention of the Templars in
the manuscript.
Historical note. After the Order of the Temple was suppressed their
property was given to the Order of the Hospital. Most of the surviving
Templars joined the Hospital with a few joining monastic orders and a
few becoming laymen. There is no evidence of them trying to become a
secret order. The stories about the secret tradition of the Templars
dates from 1730 or so with claims by Freemasons that they had the
secrets.
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Maternity is a matter of fact
Paternity is a matter of opinion
Inger E Johansson
<ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:b8j086$912$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
> In article <b89m87$4ii$1...@titan.btinternet.com>,
> black_...@hotmail.com (William Black) wrote:
>
> > <rest of bollocks snipped, I get bored easily these days>
>
> The Zeno narrative exists. I came across it in a book called Phantom
> Islands of the Atlantic which I seem to have mislaid. From memory
> though.
Yes Zeno narrative exists and what's more it's possible to trace some of
Zeno's sources.
>There are several problems using it as a source though. First
> the original manuscript vanished without trace. All that exists is the
> published version. I believe the grandnephew claimed the original had
> been destroyed in a fire. Next the names in it of places do not
> correspond with any modern ones. The correlation has to be made by
> context. This includes who they worked for. There is no reason to
> believe they discovered America though, given the navigation problems
> of the day the entire narrative could have taken place in the various
> northern island groups.
The Zeno brothers participated one of the voyages payed by the Danish and
the Portuguesan Kings.
>Finally there is no mention of the Templars in
> the manuscript.
The Templars connection you have to go to Sweden to find now a days.
>
> Historical note. After the Order of the Temple was suppressed their
> property was given to the Order of the Hospital. Most of the surviving
> Templars joined the Hospital with a few joining monastic orders and a
> few becoming laymen. There is no evidence of them trying to become a
> secret order.
Not secret but some of them moved via Marstrand due to the Roslyn - Sinclair
connection. They had a house in Linköping due to the Sinclair - Folkunga
Dynasty connection. I never heard of them being supressed totally nor being
a secret group before entering this group. One of their later members(they
still exist) told my class about their history in 1967. I spoke with one of
their present members last Fall.
The stories about the secret tradition of the Templars
> dates from 1730 or so with claims by Freemasons that they had the
> secrets.
Does Freemasons speak of the Templars ring?
>
>
>
> Ken Young
> ken...@cix.co.uk
Inger E
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> Yes Zeno narrative exists and what's more it's possible to trace
> some of Zeno's sources.
Really, a pity the author of Phantom Islands could not manage that.
> The Zeno brothers participated one of the voyages payed by the
> Danish and the Portuguesan Kings.
Well apart from the fact I have never come across any mention of
cooperation between Denmark and Portugal this is not mentioned in the
narrative.
> The Templars connection you have to go to Sweden to find now a
> days.
Pardon?
> Does Freemasons speak of the Templars ring?
I am not a Freemason.
Of course it is possible and even probable that someone preceded
Columbus. However it is not important. If they did it made no impact
on the European scene and was lost without trace. Come to that America
was named after Americo Vesupi <sp> because a map maker made a
mistake.
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Inger E Johansson
<ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:b8jsjg$r5s$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
> In article <R49ra.5932$dP1....@newsc.telia.net>,
> inger_e....@telia.com (Inger E Johansson) wrote:
>
> > Yes Zeno narrative exists and what's more it's possible to trace
> > some of Zeno's sources.
>
> Really, a pity the author of Phantom Islands could not manage that.
Two years ago when I wrote some lines about the Zeno narratives in the
group, a scholar specialist in Zeno narratives and the map contacted me
privately. I had written about a version of the map with specific details
owned by a Museum but deposite at a Dept of Linköping's University where
many of us students had seen the old map over the years until they made a
renovation of the building and the art + maps etc was moved around.
Anyhow due to the specific details and colors of the background he told me
that it must be an origin but an unknown origin of the map. While discussing
this back and forth he supplied me with details re. non NA parts of the maps
origin and I gave information about what I know about the Folkunga Dynasty
connection with the Danish resp the Portuguesean Royal Families.
>
> > The Zeno brothers participated one of the voyages payed by the
> > Danish and the Portuguesan Kings.
>
> Well apart from the fact I have never come across any mention of
> cooperation between Denmark and Portugal this is not mentioned in the
> narrative.
Why should it? There were several boats sailing together from start but not
all made it to same place. One of the boats is said to have ended up on the
Eastern side(observe not the Eastern Settlement) of Greenland and the crew
was found dead later on.
You can read about an other much later Danish-Portuguesan voyage if you look
in Google for Colon Pinding and Greenland.
The lines between the Folkunga Dynasty of Sweden and the Portuguesean Royal
Family goes back to the first part of the 11th century.
>
> > The Templars connection you have to go to Sweden to find now a
> > days.
>
> Pardon?
Yes, you are reading it correctly even if most people, scholars or not seems
to believe(If people in this group can be trusted) that the Templars faded
away. They didn't.
>
> > Does Freemasons speak of the Templars ring?
>
> I am not a Freemason.
I know but I thought you might have a clue on that one. It's a special ring
not at all like other Orden's rings. I have seen it twice in real life and
then again in old drawings from the days of Roslyn. I have been told that on
detail can be found in the Chapel of Roslyn, that I don't know if it's true.
> Of course it is possible and even probable that someone preceded
> Columbus. However it is not important. If they did it made no impact
> on the European scene and was lost without trace.
No they were not. Neither in Papal papers nor in shipslogs and trade
documents.
Come to that America
> was named after Americo Vesupi <sp> because a map maker made a
> mistake.
That's an other story.
Can I send you some early maps to your mailbox? You might have seen some,
but not all.
Inger E
Michael Kuettner
<ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:b8jsjg$r5s$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
> Come to that America was named after Americo Vesupi <sp>
Vespucci.
> because a map maker made a mistake.
AFAIR, the map maker was Waldseemueller.
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Soren Larsen
<ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk> skrev i en meddelelse
news:b8jsjg$r5s$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
> In article <R49ra.5932$dP1....@newsc.telia.net>,
> inger_e....@telia.com (Inger E Johansson) wrote:
>
> Well apart from the fact I have never come across any mention of
> cooperation between Denmark and Portugal this is not mentioned in the
> narrative.
>
Apart from not taking Inger seriously there was _some_ cooperation between
Denmark and Portugal. Danish fighters in Morocco with the Portuguese
forces and at least one Dane going with a Portuguese expedition down
the african coast. Portuguese inspired Danish expeditions in the polar
area (Pinning and Pothorst) and Portuguese polar expeditions allowed to
sail in what was recognised as Danish waters.
Cheers
Soren Larsen