Myth: seven swords of Wayland
Wolfie
Can anybody help me?
I need info about the seven swords of Wayland.
I would like to get info about the powers that each sword supposed to have,
and info about Wayland himself.
Any other info you might have is also welcome.
Thanx
ti...@rehame.com
In article <68lo83$dsm$1...@news2.xs4all.nl>,
Hmmm ... here's where I dust off the cobwebs from some
neglected portions of my memory.
Many years ago I read everything I could get my hands on
about Germanic legend and heroic tradition, with a mind
to composing some Old English alliterative poetry on
some of the ancient stories.
If you had asked me then I could have given you
pages of scraps and fragments about Wayland - since
that is about all that survives. Briefly, he is the
legendary smith of Germanic legend. Anglo-Saxon/Old English
poetry calls him Weland, Vking/Old Norse literature
calls him Volundr and he appears to date back to
at least the time of the early Goths, and perhaps
earlier.
It is traditional in Old English poetry to attribute
a well made sword or armour to the work of Weland,
though this probably simply meant that it was a good
sword and was very old. Weland's story is told
in rather elliptic form in the Old English
short poem, Deor, though it's fullest version is
in Old Norse. Briefly, Weland/Volund/Wayland is
a skilled smith who is captured and imprisoned
on an island by the tyrant king Nithad, where he
is set to work making swords and weapons. He
takes his revenge by luring Nithad's young sons
into his smithy and killing them, and then raping
Nithad's daughter, before escaping (despite being
hamstrug) via magic wings or a feathered flying
cloak.
References to this story and others associated with
Wayland are scattered through medieval literature
and folklore. A barrow near Oxford is called
Wayland's Forge, for example and other landmarks
associated with Wayland, Waland and Wade seem
to be connected with him or his tales. 'Wade'
may refer to his son, Widia, who is mentioned
in the Old English poem 'Widsith' and often
appears as an outlaw and 'hired blade' in
Germanic legend, in the company of his friend
Hama. His stories are often tangled with those
of Wayland.
As for the 'Seven Swords of Wayland' - this is
new to me and I can't think of any references
to it in any of the traditional material. I
suspect it is a modern appropriation of the
legend. Can you tell us where you came across
this reference?
'The Lost Literature of Medieval England' by Ker (?)
has a short but useful summary of the Wayland
material in its chapter on heroic verse.
Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
Weland Fan
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Ninni M Pettersson
<ti...@rehame.com> wrote:
> 'The Lost Literature of Medieval England' by Ker (?)
> has a short but useful summary of the Wayland
> material in its chapter on heroic verse.
Don't own it and haven't read it, but according to the information I
have the author is someone called R M Wilson and it was originally
published by Methuen in 1952.
/Ninni Pettersson
--
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Vivienne Oregan
The 'Seven Swords of Wayland' was the title of a 2-part episode of
Richard Carpenter's 'Robin of Sherwood' which featured 7 magical swords
forged by Wayland Smithy - one of which was Robin's own sword.
Sounds as though the original poster may have thought there was more to
this tale than RC's fertile imagination :-).
Vivienne
ni...@cix.compulink.co.uk
ti...@rehame.com
In article <883980866...@dejanews.com>,
ti...@rehame.com wrote:
> 'The Lost Literature of Medieval England' by Ker (?)
> has a short but useful summary of the Wayland
> material in its chapter on heroic verse.
That will teach me to try to cite from memory. The
book is R.M. Wilson, 'The Lost Literature of Medieval
England' (Methuen: London, 1952). The section on
the Wayland/Weland fragments is pp. 13-19.
Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
ti...@rehame.com
In article <EMBtw...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
ni...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Vivienne Oregan") wrote:
>
> The 'Seven Swords of Wayland' was the title of a 2-part episode of
> Richard Carpenter's 'Robin of Sherwood' which featured 7 magical swords
> forged by Wayland Smithy - one of which was Robin's own sword.
When I was in Dublin a few weeks ago I caught about
ten minutes of an appalling Hercules/Xena-style TV
show supposedly about Robin Hood which seemed to be
set in the same version of the Middle Ages as those
'medieval'-themed banquets, ie everything from Vikings
to Tudor mixed together equals 'medieval. Is this
the TV show you are refering to here?
All I remember about it was a lot of well-stuffed
bodices and the fact that Robin bore an uncanny
resemblance to Chris Cornell, the lead singer of
the Seattle grunge band Soundgarden. Trivia and
more trivia.
And here is me thinking that someone was actually
interested in the *real* Wayland!
Kate
In article <884061292....@dejanews.com>, ti...@rehame.com wrote:
>In article <EMBtw...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
> ni...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Vivienne Oregan") wrote:
>>
>> The 'Seven Swords of Wayland' was the title of a 2-part episode of
>> Richard Carpenter's 'Robin of Sherwood' which featured 7 magical swords
>> forged by Wayland Smithy - one of which was Robin's own sword.
>
>When I was in Dublin a few weeks ago I caught about
>ten minutes of an appalling Hercules/Xena-style TV
>show supposedly about Robin Hood which seemed to be
>set in the same version of the Middle Ages as those
>'medieval'-themed banquets, ie everything from Vikings
>to Tudor mixed together equals 'medieval. Is this
>the TV show you are refering to here?
>
>All I remember about it was a lot of well-stuffed
>bodices and the fact that Robin bore an uncanny
>resemblance to Chris Cornell, the lead singer of
>the Seattle grunge band Soundgarden. Trivia and
>more trivia.
>
>And here is me thinking that someone was actually
>interested in the *real* Wayland!
>
>Tim O'Neill
>Tasmanian Devil
..speaking of Dublin we have yet to get the full, unexpurgated version of
your travels in the Emerald isle and (medieval) points elsewhere. We wait
with baited breathe about info on the wild Canadian girl ;-). I must say that
as lovely as the Book of Kells was (OB:Medieval) what I remember best about
Dublin was the attitude in the *fine* pubs and their disconcerting belief that
a smallish female wanted a half pint instead of a pint or no pint at all!
As to Wayland....he raped the sister and murdered the brothers and folks are
*still* complimenting his sword making abilities??!!
In the words of the wicked witch...what a world, what a world ;-).
Kate
mor...@niuhep.physics.niu.edu
ka...@wwa.com (Kate) writes:
>ti...@rehame.com wrote:
>>And here is me thinking that someone was actually
>>interested in the *real* Wayland!
Well, I was interested to read your mini-introduction
>As to Wayland....he raped the sister and murdered the brothers and folks are
>*still* complimenting his sword making abilities??!!
>In the words of the wicked witch...what a world, what a world ;-).
I am going to ignore the smilie...
This is very interesting... Wayland was enslaved and my gut feeling is that
killing the brothers of his enslaver was justifiable. (and thus not murder)
Killing the sister may have been. Raping was not.
War-time rape has a long and dishonourable record.
If one views women as chattel* rape may indeed be worse than murder.
*how common/strong is that viewpoint in medieval Europe? depending
on when and where I suppose, so anybody have some info on where it
was most and least common/strong?
Robert
Paul J. Gans
Kate (ka...@wwa.com) wrote:
>In article <884061292....@dejanews.com>, ti...@rehame.com wrote:
>>In article <EMBtw...@cix.compulink.co.uk>,
>> ni...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Vivienne Oregan") wrote:
>>>
>>> The 'Seven Swords of Wayland' was the title of a 2-part episode of
>>> Richard Carpenter's 'Robin of Sherwood' which featured 7 magical swords
>>> forged by Wayland Smithy - one of which was Robin's own sword.
>>
>>When I was in Dublin a few weeks ago I caught about
>>ten minutes of an appalling Hercules/Xena-style TV
>>show supposedly about Robin Hood which seemed to be
>>set in the same version of the Middle Ages as those
>>'medieval'-themed banquets, ie everything from Vikings
>>to Tudor mixed together equals 'medieval. Is this
>>the TV show you are refering to here?
>>
>>All I remember about it was a lot of well-stuffed
>>bodices and the fact that Robin bore an uncanny
>>resemblance to Chris Cornell, the lead singer of
>>the Seattle grunge band Soundgarden. Trivia and
>>more trivia.
>>
>>interested in the *real* Wayland!
>>
>>Tasmanian Devil
>..speaking of Dublin we have yet to get the full, unexpurgated version of
>your travels in the Emerald isle and (medieval) points elsewhere. We wait
>with baited breathe about info on the wild Canadian girl ;-). I must say that
>as lovely as the Book of Kells was (OB:Medieval) what I remember best about
>Dublin was the attitude in the *fine* pubs and their disconcerting belief that
>a smallish female wanted a half pint instead of a pint or no pint at all!
>As to Wayland....he raped the sister and murdered the brothers and folks are
>*still* complimenting his sword making abilities??!!
>In the words of the wicked witch...what a world, what a world ;-).
My memories of Dublin are similar. And yes, I too did the
Book of Kells. The building in which J. G. Stoney "discovered"
the electron was also neat ;-)
And I'm sure that in the end they served you your pint.
When I arrived in Dublin from New York, after a many-houred delay
at Heathrow due to fog I had to make my way to the train station
because I was heading west. Having been up for over 30 hours at
that point, and totally dehydrated, I ordered a point of Guiness
at the pub in the Dublin train station, and drank it as if it was
water.
Best drink of beer I've had this decade.
Not bad at all for a Viking town.
----- Paul J. Gans [ga...@panix.com]
Kate
In article <68tkae$8...@corn.cso.niu.edu>, mor...@niuhep.physics.niu.edu
wrote:
>>>interested in the *real* Wayland!
>
>
>>*still* complimenting his sword making abilities??!!
>
>>In the words of the wicked witch...what a world, what a world ;-).
>
>
>This is very interesting... Wayland was enslaved and my gut feeling is that
>killing the brothers of his enslaver was justifiable. (and thus not murder)
>Killing the sister may have been. Raping was not.
>
>War-time rape has a long and dishonourable record.
>
>If one views women as chattel* rape may indeed be worse than murder.
>
>*how common/strong is that viewpoint in medieval Europe? depending
>on when and where I suppose, so anybody have some info on where it
>was most and least common/strong?
>
>Robert
>
Wayland was justifiably angry with Nidud (Nithad?). It's been awhile so I
don't recall if he had any personal animus against the King's children other
than their role as Nidud's children. He killed the two young sons of the King
and turned their skulls into drinking bowls and gifted them to Nidud. Clearly
his goal was to torment his former tormentor. The rape versus murder of the
sister (again I don't recall if she was especially cruel to him) makes a sort
of rough sense. Killing a weaker female would hardly prove his superiority
but defiling her and letting her live to tell about it would be a bitter
vengeance on her father. I don't know if it is the woman as chattel idea that
makes the rape more of an insult as much as killing a weaker (translate
inferior) female wouldn't have given him much glory in his terrible vengeance.
As the daughter of the King her virginity and/or chastity would have assumed
greater importance than an average woman, I think.
Kate
ti...@rehame.com
In article <68tp00$eqn$1...@hirame.wwa.com>,
ka...@wwa.com (Kate) wrote:
>
> In article <68tkae$8...@corn.cso.niu.edu>, mor...@niuhep.physics.niu.edu
> wrote:
> >ka...@wwa.com (Kate) writes:
> >>ti...@rehame.com wrote:
I will have to try to find the time to write my 'Medievalist's
Travelogue' sometime. Sorry Kate, but I will be forced by
contraints of space to stick to my impressions of medieval
sites and artefacts and skip the details of the Canadian
lass (and the three blondes in Derry and ... well, anyway)
[Various snippage]
> Wayland was justifiably angry with Nidud (Nithad?). It's been awhile so I
> don't recall if he had any personal animus against the King's children other
> than their role as Nidud's children. He killed the two young sons of the King
> and turned their skulls into drinking bowls and gifted them to Nidud. Clearly
> his goal was to torment his former tormentor.
This was a common motif in Germanic legend. Albion/Aelfwine the
Lombard did the same with the skull of the Gepid king and forced
his wife, the king's unfortunate daughter, to drink from it.
She ended up killing the bastard. Given the strength of kin-ties
in Germanic society, Wayland's grim revenge would have been very
poignant.
> The rape versus murder of the
> sister (again I don't recall if she was especially cruel to him) makes a sort
> of rough sense. Killing a weaker female would hardly prove his superiority
> but defiling her and letting her live to tell about it would be a bitter
> vengeance on her father.
There is actually nothing in the surviving material to suggest
that she had wronged Wayland in any way, but the rape was
a shame to her and therefore her family and the fact that she
became pregnant made the shame even worse. The implication in
the 'Deor' passage was that she bore the child, who then
reminded her (and her father) of Wayland's revenge every day.
If this son was Widia/Wade, named in the legends as the outlaw
son of Wayland, then it *could* be that Nithad turned him
out of his hall as soon as the boy came of age, which is
why he spent his life as an outlaw and wandering warrior.
The evidence is very fragmentary, however, and this cycle
of stories is impossible to reconstruct.
> I don't know if it is the woman as chattel idea that
> makes the rape more of an insult as much as killing a weaker (translate
> inferior) female wouldn't have given him much glory in his terrible vengeance.
> As the daughter of the King her virginity and/or chastity would have assumed
> greater importance than an average woman, I think.
There is no indication that she was married, so I think this
was part of the revenge. He not only raped her and got her
pregnant, but he took her virginity and 'ruined' her for
any marriage to a noble husband.
Tim O'Neill
Tasmanian Devil
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
Wolfie
I confess, I heard about Wayland (and the supposed 7 swords) in the TV
series of "Robin of Sherwood". (b.t.w. The series in the Xena/Hercules
style is terrible). However I thought there could be more about it than just
the imagination of the creator of the series.
That particular part could be made up by the writer, but he made it look so
real.
For example he created a whole new storie about the swords, and I just
wanted to find out if it was true. I found the story very interesting.
It was something like this:
There were 7 swords made by Wayland the Smith.
They each had a name:
Albion (or Albyon)
Belech
Elidon
Klaüs
Maurax
Solas
Urias
These swords each had some kind of power and if the swords were brought
together, their powers could summon a demon called "Shaītan". (propably
another name for Satan).
This demon didn't have a three dimensional form, and with the powers of the
swords, it could regain its three dimensional form.
This entire story could be made up ofcourse I realise that, but I post this
because I think it's a
great myth, and I wanted to know if anyone knew more about it.
I wanted to thank everybody to reacted on my message. And I hope you will
reply this one too.
The next part is for Tim O'Neill.
I wanted to let you know that I am really interested in Wayland or Weland
(as you call him).
And I wanted to thank you for the reply you made, it may have cost you much
time.
Any fills on the info you posted so far, are welcome.
ti...@rehame.com wrote in message <884035025...@dejanews.com>...
>In article <883980866...@dejanews.com>,
> ti...@rehame.com wrote:
>
>> 'The Lost Literature of Medieval England' by Ker (?)
>> has a short but useful summary of the Wayland
>> material in its chapter on heroic verse.
>
>That will teach me to try to cite from memory. The
>book is R.M. Wilson, 'The Lost Literature of Medieval
>England' (Methuen: London, 1952). The section on
>the Wayland/Weland fragments is pp. 13-19.
>
Tiogar
>Can anybody help me?
>I need info about the seven swords of Wayland.
>I would like to get info about the powers that each sword supposed to have,
>and info about Wayland himself.
>Any other info you might have is also welcome.
>
>
>
OK, I've read the replies, but can anyone give me the simple answer -
was this simply made up for TV, or is there some myth/history basis that
I can research further?
Tiogar
Carl Edlund Anderson
In article <hOObHAAJ...@cybscape.demon.co.uk>, Tiogar
<Tio...@cybscape.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> OK, I've read the replies, but can anyone give me the simple answer -
> was this simply made up for TV, or is there some myth/history basis that
> I can research further?
I've never heard of such a thing prior to this century.
Cheers,
Carl
--
Carl Edlund Anderson
Dept. of Anglo-Saxon, Norse, & Celtic
St. John's College, University of Cambridge
mailto:ce...@cus.cam.ac.uk
http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~carl/
DCon
Carl Edlund Anderson wrote:
> I've never heard of such a thing prior to this century.
Hehe, I've never heard anything about this or anything else prior to
1964. How old are you, anyway? (sorry)
--
Anti-Spam: Remove the darkness from my address to reply.
Tiogar
>
>OK, I've read the replies, but can anyone give me the simple answer -
>was this simply made up for TV, or is there some myth/history basis that
>I can research further?
>
Following up my own posts. Must be a sign of... something. <g>
Anyway, there was some mention in the early parts ofthis thread about
the swords names, which I have, and associated powers, which I do not
have.
Any further wisdom from the cheap seats?
Tiogar
jziec...@gmail.com
> Tasmanian Devil
>
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
For details see the Poetic Eddas The Lay of Volundr
war...@gmail.com
> Can anybody help me?
> I need info about the seven swords of Wayland.
> I would like to get info about the powers that each sword supposed to have,
> and info about Wayland himself.
> Any other info you might have is also welcome.
>
> Thanx
Orias - Ars Paulina
Morax - Ars Goetia
Beleth - Beguilement
Solas - Alchemy
Elidor or Eligor - Prophesy
Flauros or Flowras - Hexing
Abigor or Albion - Scrying
Wayland, Weiland or Volund is the Teutonic Smith-God. In some legends, it is believed that Wayland crafted the sword, Durandal, the sword of Charlemagne's paladin, Roland and the power of that sword was to be indestructible.
Ed Stasiak
> The Seven Swords of Wayland and their powers
>
> Orias - Ars Paulina
> Morax - Ars Goetia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Key_of_Solomon#Ars_Paulina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_Key_of_Solomon#Ars_Goetia
war...@gmail.com
Ars Paulina - the art of summoning demons.
Ars Goetia - the art of conjuring demons
I hope that helps clear things up.