The chess queen as a symbol of cultural differences between Islamic and Christian civilizations (contd.)
AnonMoos
between Christian-European and Islamic civilizations", which you can
currently read at the following URL (until they give Google.Ca the
dreaded "Groups Beta" treatment):
http://groups.google.ca/groups?threadm=a8e7ce7.0209192047.197c75e8%40posting.google.com
The main conclusion of that thread still seems to me to be
indisputably factually true: --
Not long after the game of chess was borrowed from Muslim countries
into European Christian countries in the middle ages, the chess piece
known in Arabic and Persian as the (male) "vizier" then became a
female "queen" or "lady" in most European languages; and this was a
reflection of the social reality that during the European middle ages
the consort of a king had a publicly prominent and socially visible
role as "queen" (while in middle-eastern Muslim countries, there was
simply no real "queen" role at all -- generally, the only woman to
have even a very limited public role was the mother of the reigning
male monarch).
Similarly, at a lower social level in medieval Christendom, ordinary
European women had a corresponding public "hostess" role -- something
else which didn't really even exist at all in middle-eastern Islamic
countries (until very recent times).
So even during the middle ages -- when Christian civilization was not
feminist, did not claim to be feminist, and few Christians would have
thought that feminism was a good thing -- there was a clear difference
between Muslim and Christian civilizations, in that Christians did not
practice strict social seclusion or exclusion of women from the public
realm. And one of the ways in which this contrast manifested itself
was that the Europeans thought that the natural counterpart and helper
to a king was a queen (on the chessboard or in real life), while
Muslims had a rather different point of view.
All of the above is still true, but when I wrote my 2002 post, I got
my information on dates mainly from the OED entry for the word "Queen",
and by glancing through a history of chess which was perhaps not the
most compendious or scholarly one. Meanwhile, last year a book tiled
"Birth of the Chess Queen" by Marilyn Yalom was published, which has
quite a bit of additional information.
This Yalom book gathers together various visual and literary evidence
on the early chess queen. It seems that the first evidence that
anybody had replaced the earlier male "vizier" piece with a female
piece is found in a Latin poem written in Switzerland just before 1000
A.D. (which speaks of the "regina"), while the first surviving
chessmen depicting female figures are from late 11th-century A.D.
southern Italy (a region which was in close contact with Muslims, and
so adopted chess early, but was never conquered by Muslims for any
length of time -- as Spain was). From the 12th century on, there is
broad evidence of the spread of the chess queen throughout Latin
Christendom, including as far away as Scandinavia.
Sometimes the old Persian name firzan "wise man" (or variations
thereof) continued to be used even after the piece had undergone the
sex-change. In Old French, the word "fierge" was kind of
semi-assmilated to "vierge".
Finally, the "mad queen's game" (the change of rules by which the
Queen was given the power to move indefinitely in any of eight
directions) originated in the last quarter of the fifteenth century,
and spread across Europe in the sixteenth century.
The Yalom book contains quite a bit of interesting material, but she
wastes a lot of effort in trying to connect the chess queen as it
existed in various regions and periods with real-life powerful queens
in history -- something which would probably remain very speculative
and dubious even if we had a lot more information than we do. On the
other hand, the material about chess as the medieval game of love is
fascinating.
--
Citations de Qur'an: 5:20 qaala muusaa 5:21 "yaa qawmi dkhuluu l-'arDa
l-muqaddasata llatii kataba llaahu lakum" 17:104 waqulnaa ... libanii
'israa'iila "skunuu l-'arDa" || En français: Moïse a dit "Mon peuple,
rentrez dans la Terre Sainte que Dieu a fixé pour vous!" Et nous avons
dit aux Fils d'Israël "Habitez la terre!" http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
am...@hotmail.com
AnonMoos wrote:
> Sometimes the old Persian name firzan "wise man" (or variations
> thereof) continued to be used even after the piece had undergone the
> sex-change. In Old French, the word "fierge" was kind of
> semi-assmilated to "vierge".
Interesting. AFAIK, in Russian a traditional name for queen is "ferz"
(probably extracted from "firzan"). While the country was Christian,
women's social status was extremely low until XVIII (them being more
or less "instruments of the Satan"). This would fit your theory just
fine.
Tony Cox
news:41F14186...@io.com...
>
> Not long after the game of chess was borrowed from Muslim countries
> into European Christian countries in the middle ages, the chess piece
> known in Arabic and Persian as the (male) "vizier" then became a
> female "queen" or "lady" in most European languages; and this was a
> reflection of the social reality that during the European middle ages
> the consort of a king had a publicly prominent and socially visible
> role as "queen" (while in middle-eastern Muslim countries, there was
> simply no real "queen" role at all -- generally, the only woman to
> have even a very limited public role was the mother of the reigning
> male monarch).
Fascinating. What was the bishop in Muslim chess? A similarly
potent religious figure? How about the rook/castle and the knight?
am...@hotmail.com
Can't say about the Muslim equivalents but in Russian version (as far
as
I can recall) bishop was an officer, knight was a horse and castle was
"tura". Don't remember which one, knight or castle was also a "boat"
and
which was also an "elephant" (I think knight with castle being a boat
but it can be other way around).
Yusuf B Gursey
Tony Cox wrote:
> "AnonMoos" <anon...@io.com> wrote in message
> news:41F14186...@io.com...
> >
> > Not long after the game of chess was borrowed from Muslim countries
> > into European Christian countries in the middle ages, the chess
piece
> > known in Arabic and Persian as the (male) "vizier" then became a
> > female "queen" or "lady" in most European languages; and this was a
> > reflection of the social reality that during the European middle
ages
> > the consort of a king had a publicly prominent and socially visible
> > role as "queen" (while in middle-eastern Muslim countries, there
was
> > simply no real "queen" role at all -- generally, the only woman to
> > have even a very limited public role was the mother of the reigning
> > male monarch).
see:
http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=222ae656.0309242006.4ae7a77b%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
also:
http://www.chessvariants.com/piececlopedia.dir/queen.html
>
> Fascinating. What was the bishop in Muslim chess? A similarly
elephant (fi:l) . it was named "bishop" since the piece, with the
representation of two elephant tusks, resembled a bishop's hat.
see:
http://www.chessvariants.com/piececlopedia.dir/bishop.html
> potent religious figure? How about the rook/castle and the knight?
the rook was persian rux "chariot" (later confused with the
semi-mythical bird). also sometimes later represented as a mobile piece
of medieval artillary (a siege tower) originally dabba:ba(t) (nowadays
the word for "(military) tank"), hence the represntation as a tower.
but nowadays frequently "castle" or "tower"
see:
http://www.chessvariants.com/piececlopedia.dir/rook.html
knight is "horse"
http://www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/knight.html
AnonMoos
>"AnonMoos" <anon...@io.com> wrote in message news:41F14186...@io.com...
>> Not long after the game of chess was borrowed from Muslim countries
>> into European Christian countries in the middle ages, the chess
>> piece known in Arabic and Persian as the (male) "vizier" then
>> became a female "queen" or "lady" in most European languages; and
>> this was a reflection of the social reality that during the
>> European middle ages the consort of a king had a publicly prominent
>> and socially visible role as "queen" (while in middle-eastern
>> Muslim countries, there was simply no real "queen" role at all --
>> generally, the only woman to have even a very limited public role
>> was the mother of the reigning male monarch).
> see:
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=222ae656.0309242006.4ae7a77b%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
> also: http://www.chessvariants.com/piececlopedia.dir/queen.html
That last site commits the unfortunate error of seeming to conflate
the change in sex of the chess piece, the change in its name from
"fers" to queen or lady, and the change in its powers of movement (to
allow indefinite movement in any of eight directions) into one big
simultaneous change. In fact, these were three SEPARATE steps, which
might happen at different times (not simultaneously at all) -- and the
change in movement rules happened quite a bit after the other two
changes in the countries of Latin Christendom (i.e. not until the end
of the 15th century). Of course, in Russia the change in movements
occurred first, the sex-change not until the end of the 18th century,
and the name "ferz" never was changed.
>> Similarly, at a lower social level in medieval Christendom, ordinary
>> European women had a corresponding public "hostess" role -- something
>> else which didn't really even exist at all in middle-eastern Islamic
>> countries (until very recent times). So even during the middle ages
>> -- when Christian civilization was not feminist, did not claim to be
>> feminist, and few Christians would have thought that feminism was a
>> good thing -- there was a clear difference between Muslim and
>> Christian civilizations, in that Christians did not practice strict
>> social seclusion or exclusion of women from the public realm. And
>> one of the ways in which this contrast manifested itself was that the
>> Europeans thought that the natural counterpart and helper to a king
>> was a queen (on the chessboard or in real life), while Muslims had a
>> rather different point of view.
--
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splitting the Saudi tyranny into its three natural parts:
Hejaz-alHarameyn, Nejd-Wahhabistan, and Gulf-Petrolia.
Murderers are not Martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
Murderers are not Martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/
الاختلاط خير
من الاضطهاد
Yusuf B Gursey
AnonMoos wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote:
> >"AnonMoos" <anon...@io.com> wrote in message
news:41F14186...@io.com...
>
> >> Not long after the game of chess was borrowed from Muslim
countries
> >> into European Christian countries in the middle ages, the chess
> >> piece known in Arabic and Persian as the (male) "vizier" then
> >> became a female "queen" or "lady" in most European languages; and
> >> this was a reflection of the social reality that during the
> >> European middle ages the consort of a king had a publicly
prominent
> >> and socially visible role as "queen" (while in middle-eastern
> >> Muslim countries, there was simply no real "queen" role at all --
> >> generally, the only woman to have even a very limited public role
> >> was the mother of the reigning male monarch).
>
> > see:
> >
http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=222ae656.0309242006.4ae7a77b%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
> > also: http://www.chessvariants.com/piececlopedia.dir/queen.html
>
> That last site commits the unfortunate error of seeming to conflate
> the change in sex of the chess piece, the change in its name from
> "fers" to queen or lady, and the change in its powers of movement (to
> allow indefinite movement in any of eight directions) into one big
it's a summary.
Yusuf B Gursey
Yusuf B Gursey
looking it up, castle is "boat" (or "tura" - probably from a word
meaning
"tower" - though I don't know from which language), bishop is
"elephant" as in the middle east, or (acc. to thedictionary
"colloquially")
"offcer"
Arkadiusz Bugaj
Uzytkownik <am...@hotmail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:1106345020.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Arkadiusz Bugaj
Uzytkownik <am...@hotmail.com> napisal w wiadomosci
news:1106345020.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> "AnonMoos" <anon...@io.com> wrote in message
>> news:41F14186...@io.com...
>> >
>> > Not long after the game of chess was borrowed from Muslim countries
>> > into European Christian countries in the middle ages, the chess
> piece
>> > known in Arabic and Persian as the (male) "vizier" then became a
>> > female "queen" or "lady" in most European languages; and this was a
>> > reflection of the social reality that during the European middle
> ages
>> > the consort of a king had a publicly prominent and socially visible
>> > role as "queen" (while in middle-eastern Muslim countries, there
> was
>> > simply no real "queen" role at all -- generally, the only woman to
>> > have even a very limited public role was the mother of the reigning
>> > male monarch).
>>
>> Fascinating. What was the bishop in Muslim chess? A similarly
>> potent religious figure? How about the rook/castle and the knight?
>
> Can't say about the Muslim equivalents but in Russian version (as far
> as
> I can recall) bishop was an officer, knight was a horse and castle was
> "tura".
_zamok_, but as a castle has a form of tower it can be that the Russians
called it _tiurma_, which refers to a tower with deep cellar, used for
keeping prisoners. _Tiurma_ later became a synonym of prison. In
contemporary Russian more common term for tower is _bachnya_ or _vychnya_
Arkadiusz
Tony Cox
news:1106345020.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
You know, much though I enjoy AnonMoos' posts, it seems
to me that it's quite a reach to draw wide-ranging conclusions
about the differences between the medieval Islamic world and
Christendom based on the history of the "queen". Couldn't an
enterprising Muslim similarly claim that the history of the "bishop"
demonstrates the essential militancy of the Christian church?
Interesting discussion, however.
AnonMoos
>"AnonMoos" <anon...@io.com> wrote in message news:41F14186...@io.com...
>> Not long after the game of chess was borrowed from Muslim countries
>> into European Christian countries in the middle ages, the chess piece
>> known in Arabic and Persian as the (male) "vizier" then became a female
>> "queen" or "lady" in most European languages; and this was a reflection
>> of the social reality that during the European middle ages the consort
>> of a king had a publicly prominent and socially visible role as "queen"
>> (while in middle-eastern Muslim countries, there was simply no real
>> "queen" role at all -- generally, the only woman to have even a very
>> limited public role was the mother of the reigning male monarch).
>> Similarly, at a lower social level in medieval Christendom, ordinary
>> European women had a corresponding public "hostess" role -- something
>> else which didn't really even exist at all in middle-eastern Islamic
>> countries (until very recent times). So even during the middle ages --
>> when Christian civilization was not feminist, did not claim to be
>> feminist, and few Christians would have thought that feminism was a
>> good thing -- there was a clear difference between Muslim and Christian
>> civilizations, in that Christians did not practice strict social
>> seclusion or exclusion of women from the public realm. And one of the
>> ways in which this contrast manifested itself was that the Europeans
>> thought that the natural counterpart and helper to a king was a queen
>> (on the chessboard or in real life), while Muslims had a rather
>> different point of view.
> You know, much though I enjoy AnonMoos' posts, it seems to me that
> it's quite a reach to draw wide-ranging conclusions about the
> differences between the medieval Islamic world and Christendom based
> on the history of the "queen".
Actually, you have the direction of the arrow of deduction wrong.
I _first_ knew that middle-eastern Muslim women of the upper-classes
were generally rather strictly secluded from the public social realm
(at least during and after the early Abbasid period, when Arab tribal
customs merged with Sassanian influences to form the first truly
distinctively Islamic culture or civilization). And also, that there
has never been any Queen Regnant, or women president or
prime-minister, or other female supreme ruler or political leader in
any Arab country since the coming of Islam (except for a rather brief
and unsuccessfully turbulent attempt during the last decadent
declining days of the Ayyubid dynasty). And that while the wife (or
other appropriate female relative) of a typical head-of-household had
a public social "hostess" role in medieval Christian Europe, the same
wasn't really true in the Muslim middle east.
Then in Sep. 2002, it suddenly occurred to me that that all these
differences were neatly summarized or symbolized by the fact that when
European Christians borrowed the game of chess from Muslims, they
didn't go very long before they changed the male "vizier" piece into a
female "queen". The Yalom book adds a lot of factual details (and
also some distractions, such as courtly love and the cult of the
Virgin Mary -- neither of which is probably more than rather
tangentially relevant), but it doesn't shake the basic scenario I
outlined above.
> Couldn't an enterprising Muslim similarly claim that the history of
> the "bishop" demonstrates the essential militancy of the Christian
> church? Interesting discussion, however.
You don't seem to be aware that the name "Bishop" is by no means
universally adopted in the countries of western (Latin) Christendom.
The French call it the "fool", the Germans the "runner", the Italians
the "standard-bearer", the Spanish kept the Arabic name "Alfil", etc.
In the early middle ages, what we now know in English as the Bishop
was a piece with an incomprehensible Arabic name and two pointy curvy
things at the top (the remnants of the original elephant's tusks) --
which were reinterpreted in various ways in different areas (as a
bishop's miter, a fool's cap, etc. etc.).
There was some incipient tendency in some countries to try to make the
chess pieces cover the various different orders or "estates" of
medieval society, but this was never as thoroughly carried out or as
widely adopted as changing the old male "vizier" piece to a female piece.
--