Archimedes and Alexander the Great?
Robert Lundquist
Archimedes said to Alexander something about "standing between him and the
sun", "disturbing the sun" or something similar, but none of us remember the
details. Could anyone suggest a source?
--robert
*******
Robert Lundquist
Lulea University of Technology
Sweden
Neville Lindsay
father Zeus nearly a century before Archimedes.
The story is about Diogenes the Cynic who lived in a drainpipe or similar in
Corinth and was sunning himself while Alexander was busily sacking the city.
A called to see him and asked if he could do anything for him; the response
was: Yes, was get out of my sun. Alexander said to his Friends: If I were
not Alexander I would be Diogenes.
There is a supplementary one that A heard that D's house had been pillaged,
and A came around offering restoration if anything valuable which had been
taken. D replied: I saw no wisdom being carried out of my house.
I could guess at Plutarch *Alexander* but it might be somewhere more obscure
like Diogenes Laertius or even the Diepnosophists.
NL
"Robert Lundquist" <Robert.L...@ies.luth.se> wrote in message
news:8e9hjq$h21$1...@news.luth.se...
Musca Volitans
Robert Lundquist wrote in message <8e9hjq$h21$1...@news.luth.se>...
>A Bulgarian colleague of mine and I have been discussing an anecdote where
>Archimedes said to Alexander something about "standing between him and the
>sun", "disturbing the sun" or something similar, but none of us remember
the
>details. Could anyone suggest a source?
Neville has covered the Alexander side of the story.
As for Archimedes, he was slain by a Roman soldier who did not
recognize him, though the order had been given by Marcellus, the
conqueror of Syracuse, to spare his life. The story goes that
Archimedes had testily said to the soldier, "noli turbare calculos meos",
(don't disturb my calculations). Engineering was a much
more dangerous occupation in those days. ;-)
Regards,
Musca Volitans
Robert Stonehouse
>They weren't really about at the same time. Alex had gone on to join his
>father Zeus nearly a century before Archimedes.
>The story is about Diogenes the Cynic who lived in a drainpipe or similar in
>Corinth and was sunning himself while Alexander was busily sacking the city.
>A called to see him and asked if he could do anything for him; the response
>was: Yes, was get out of my sun. Alexander said to his Friends: If I were
>not Alexander I would be Diogenes.
>There is a supplementary one that A heard that D's house had been pillaged,
>and A came around offering restoration if anything valuable which had been
>taken. D replied: I saw no wisdom being carried out of my house.
>I could guess at Plutarch *Alexander* but it might be somewhere more obscure
>like Diogenes Laertius or even the Diepnosophists.
Arrian Anabasis 7.2, at Sinope; not all the details, though.
ew...@bcs.org.uk
Brian McLaughlin
|> A Bulgarian colleague of mine and I have been discussing an anecdote where
|> Archimedes said to Alexander something about "standing between him and the
|> sun", "disturbing the sun" or something similar, but none of us remember the
|> details. Could anyone suggest a source?
Not Archimedes, but Diogenes the cynic.
As I recall, the anecdote, when Alexander was sent to
Athens on a diplomatic mission by Phillip, he wanted to
meet Diogenes. His host obliged by taking him to Diogenes
who was lying in the sun.
Alexander was introduced: "Diogenes, this is Alexander,
Prince of Macedon."
To which Diogenes replied, "Fine. Now tell him to move
along. He's blocking my sun."
--
Brian McLaughlin, Technical Writer |"Thanks to the Internet, misinformation
Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.| now travels faster than ever before!"
Beaverton, OR, USA | ---- Standard disclaimer applies ----
Thomas D.
They lived in entirely different time periods.
You are confusing Archimedes with a different general.
"Robert Lundquist" <Robert.L...@ies.luth.se> wrote in message
news:8e9hjq$h21$1...@news.luth.se...
> A Bulgarian colleague of mine and I have been discussing an anecdote where
> Archimedes said to Alexander something about "standing between him and the
> sun", "disturbing the sun" or something similar, but none of us remember
the
> details. Could anyone suggest a source?
>
Shaqer R Rashid
daytime with a lit lantern looking for an honest man - or so they
say. In any event, Alexander asks him if there's anything he wants from
the king, and he says "get out of my light."
Robert J. Kolker
Robert Lundquist wrote:
> A Bulgarian colleague of mine and I have been discussing an anecdote where
> Archimedes said to Alexander something about "standing between him and the
> sun", "disturbing the sun" or something similar, but none of us remember the
> details. Could anyone suggest a source?
I think you are confusing Archimedes with Aristotle, who was
Alexander's teacher. Archimedes was born around 212 BCE and
died around 287 BCE during the siege of Syracuse by
General Marcellus ( see Plutarch's LIVES). Archimedes could not
have know Alexander who died considerably before the birth of
Archimedes. The only connection I know between the two is
that Archimedes learned his math in Alexandria, a city founded
by Alexander and they both spoke and read in Greek.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
Musca Volitans wrote:
> Archimedes had testily said to the soldier, "noli turbare calculos meos",
> (don't disturb my calculations). Engineering was a much
> more dangerous occupation in those days. ;-)
It is unlikely that Archimedes spoke Latin. He was Greek all his life
and never lived under Roman dominion. That is a translation (if that)
of what A might have said to the Roman soldier. In any case, it is
a likely story.
Bob Kolker
Musca Volitans
Robert J. Kolker wrote in message <390C35C8...@usa.net>...
That's a good point. But if he had spoken Greek, would the soldier
have understood him? The foot-soldiers didn't receive a 'classical'
education even then!
In any event, I had second thoughts, though, about the way I had
remembered the phrase, and I think I have quoted it incorrectly.
Archimedes was apparently drawing some circles in the sand when
accosted by the soldier, and he said "noli turbare circulos meos",
"don't disturb my circles".
BTW, presumably the Roman replied, "dothi mou pou sto kai apokteno
ten gen", (give me a place to stand and I will slay the world) :-)
Regards,
Musca Volitans
Mark D. Lew
<bobk...@usa.net> wrote:
> It is unlikely that Archimedes spoke Latin. He was Greek all his life
> and never lived under Roman dominion. That is a translation (if that)
> of what A might have said to the Roman soldier. In any case, it is
> a likely story.
A romantic story, but I wouldn't consider it likely to be factual.
The "noli turbare calculos meos" quote has been widely repeated, but I
haven't been able to identify the original source. Livy and Plutarch both
mention that Archimedes was studying circles on the ground when the Romans
came, but neither give the famous quote.
Pending further evidence, my guess would be that the business of circles in
the sand was a fabrication by Livy, subsequently repeated by others, one of
whom invented the actual quote. Tzetzes' version comes closest to being
plausible, imho. He states that Archimedes was facing the other way when he
said the quote, but once he turned around and saw a Roman he tried to
defend himself.
mdl
Christopher Forbes
As to whether Archimedes really said "Don't disturb my calculations" to a
Roman soldier, check the account of Diodorus Siculus (if he's extant for
this period), who is particularly well informed on Sicilian affairs.