Is Jesus Christ due veneration currently as the Son of God?
crunch
wrote:
> In article <2129ed14-cb79-4d58-8f72-946d87b24...@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> <<Kelly>> <<Kelly> wrote:
> >On Dec 18, 11:08 pm, ijda...@softbase.cs.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Davis)
> >wrote:
> >> If the Church Were Christian Jesus would be a model for living rather than
> >> an object of worship.
IMHO the Church after 2000 years CANNOT be Christian;
I anticipate the coming post-Christian Era...
Further, IMHO Jesus Christ should not be a model for
living for modern people except for his compassion, brilliance
of mind, and some of his ethics/philosophy. In my experience
as a RSOF member at Cambridge and Wellesley Meetings
Jesus Christ was never an object of worship; I do not belong
to the cult of Jesus; I hope others will come to see my view
that Jesus was never divine and just a man.
Much more can be said here if at least a few SRQers give me
a fair shot at being interactive in the true sense of the word
by overcoming their currently closed minds.
> >Wrong from the get-go...
> >> Interesting article.
Yes, interesting article.
> >Not really. Just more uneducated and biased claptrap based on
> >incorrect assumptions and unBiblical understanding of what being a
> >Christian actually is. The father was raised a Baptist. So what?
> >Being raised in a particular denomination doesn't make someone a
> >Christian any more than walking into a garage makes one a car.
> I think you missed the point of the article. The point was querying what it
> was Jesus would have wished of his followers. Would he have wished that they
> worshipped him?
Up to the early 70's AD when Jesus died, Jesus wanted
his followers to worship him according to Dr. Thiering.
> Would he have welcomed the belief that he was divine.
The Diaspora Essenes believed in incarnation that the
High Priest incarnated God in his person and Jesus
used this belief in his outreach in the Christian Party
that he formed after his split from the Zadokite John
the Baptist.
> It
> wasn't asking how can christians be more of what they are; it was asking if
> christians should be very different from what they are. So being troubled
> by confusion regarding what a christian actually is, only begs the questions
> asked.
> Since Yowie may have a hard time reading this article I append it below
> http://www.quaker.org/quest/issue16-gulley02.htm
> ====================
> An Excerpt from If The Church Were Christian, by Philip Gulley
> If the Church Were Christian,
> Jesus Would Be A Model For Living
> Rather Than An Object of Worship
> Copyright © by Philip Gulley. Reprinted by permission.
> I was born into a mixed marriage. My father hailed from Baptists and
> my mother from Roman Catholics. My father was religiously indifferent
> and ceded the spiritual ground to my mother, who took me and my siblings
> to Mass each Sunday morning in the small town where we lived. The building
> was a modest one, intended as a temporary structure until the church
> had grown sufficiently to erect a more suitable building. Unfortunately,
> our priests were near retirement, depleted of physical and spiritual
> energy, and unable to expand the church’s population. For as long as
> I attended there, the building where we gathered to worship was small
> and plain, with one exception–behind the altar hung a magnificent figure
> of Jesus nailed to a cross.
> The statue was so realistic as to be frightening. Nails protruded from
> Jesus’ wrists and ankles, blood mingled down in a grisly red, his body
> striped with angry lashes.
For the historical Jesus Christ nails were not driven thru his
ankles but thru the wrists.
> The figure loomed above the priest, inescapable.
> It had to be gazed upon. Without my mother telling me so, I deduced
> this Jesus was to be revered. Had the statue been placed anywhere else,
> had it been avoidable, I do not think it would have captured my attention
> to the extent it did. But placed behind the altar, squarely in the center
> of the worshiper’s attentions, forced me to gaze upon it, brought it
> sharply to focus, and required a response. It was clear, from the priest’s
> words, from the hymns we sang and prayers we offered, that the hoped-for
> response was veneration. This Jesus was to be worshiped. Further, the
> quality and sincerity of my worship would determine my future, whether
> I would enjoy an eternal life of joy and bliss with Jesus, or an eternity
> of suffering and sorrow without him. . . .
> . . . But the more I learned about the historical Jesus and the Jewish
> setting in which he lived, the more I wondered how he would have felt
> about his promotion to divine status and a subsequent object of worship.
The author does not know about the Essenic setting in which
Jesus Christ lived.
> Would he have welcomed such veneration as his due? Or as a monotheistic
> Jew would he have interpreted such reverence as idolatrous? Of course,
> it is intellectually risky to read someone’s mind two thousand years
> after his or her death. But this has not kept us from claiming to know
> the mind of Jesus, even about matters with which he couldn’t have been
> familiar, such as evolution, abortion, the American political system,
> and other topics. So even as I imagine how Jesus might have felt about
> his promotion to divine status, I am well aware I might be mistaken.
> But I risk the discussion because I believe the church’s worship of
> Jesus is something he would not have favored. Further, this tendency
> has had profound consequences, not all of them beneficial.
Dear reader,
Please read the entire Thiering article carefully
and comment.
Re: What is the Meaning of Son Of God?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/2791
Peace (after the Quaker fashion),
David Christainsen
Newton, Mass. USA
Stanley F. Nelson
Jesus the Christ, only Son of the Living God and Second Person of the Holy
Trinity, mindless nonsense such as the foregoing post should be ignored
completely and totally.
Stanley F. Nelson
ACNA.
crunch
wrote:
> In article <6c3a878a-470c-4e42-8012-fb9aa09e5...@v13g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
>
> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Dec 19, 2:52 pm, ijda...@softbase.cs.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Davis)
> >wrote:
> >> In article
> ><2129ed14-cb79-4d58-8f72-946d87b24...@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> >> <<Kelly>> <<Kelly> wrote:
> >> >On Dec 18, 11:08 pm, ijda...@softbase.cs.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Davis)
> >> >wrote:
>
> >> >> If the Church Were Christian Jesus would be a model for living rather than
> >> >> an object of worship.
>
> >IMHO the Church after 2000 years CANNOT be Christian;
>
>
> Spam blasted out to:
>
> Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker,soc.history.ancient,alt.religion.christian.episcopal,alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic
>
> Where is Engineers user friendly troll meter when one needs it.
>
> Troll!Troll!Troll! Big ugly troll.. if you know that song David please
> stop singing it.
>
> Ian
On the contrary -
What is the Meaning of Son Of God?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/2791
"In Jn 10:14-36 Jesus gives a complicated argument depending on the
proposition that the Jews he was speaking to were called gods. He
therefore
could ask why they said he was blaspheming when he said he was the Son
of
God."
"Jesus more usually used the term 'Son of God'. 'Son' in the pesher
means
'deputy' or 'subordinate'. The word 'God' in the pesher has the
organisational sense of the Sadducee priest who was qualified by birth
to be
high priest in the Jerusalem temple. In the gospel period it was
Jonathan
Annas, later Theophilus Annas then Matthew Annas. He was to be supreme
in
the Jerusalem temple, while a Diaspora graduate, a priest to his own
congregation, was his subordinate or 'Son'. It was this role that
Jesus
usually claimed, while at the same time aiming to act as the supreme
priest
in a separated Christian party.
By the time of the Council of Nicea, however, this meaning had become
an
unwelcome relic from the past, and divinity by incarnation was claimed
for
him. The only issue was the hair-splitting argument about what was the
precise relationship of Jesus to God in heaven, preserving his
divinity
without compromising monotheism. Now, it seems, the issue is, not
simply
that he was an ordinary man, but whether he was any different from
other
men."
Peace,
David Christainsen
Martin Edwards
mythology newsgroup.
--
As through this world I've rambled, I've met plenty of funny men,
Some rob you with a sixgun, some with a fountain pen.
Woody Guthrie
Ted L
> On Dec 19, 2:52 pm, ijda...@softbase.cs.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Davis)
> wrote:
>
> > In article <2129ed14-cb79-4d58-8f72-946d87b24...@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
> > <<Kelly>> <<Kelly> wrote:
> > >On Dec 18, 11:08 pm, ijda...@softbase.cs.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Davis)
> > >wrote:
> > >> If the Church Were Christian Jesus would be a model for living rather than
> > >> an object of worship.
>
> IMHO the Church after 2000 years CANNOT be Christian;
> I anticipate the coming post-Christian Era...
>
Proverbs 14:12 says that following your own opinion could lead you to
everlasting destruction.
>...Jesus Christ should not be a model for
> living for modern people except for his compassion, brilliance
> of mind, and some of his ethics/philosophy. In my experience
> as a RSOF member at Cambridge and Wellesley Meetings
> Jesus Christ was never an object of worship; I do not belong
> to the cult of Jesus; I hope others will come to see my view
> that Jesus was never divine and just a man.
God's word, whom I trust, disagrees with you; as, thereby, doeth I:
"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name
which is above every name" (Phil 2:9) "Being made so much better than
the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name
than they." (Heb 1:4)
duke
wrote:
>On Dec 19, 2:52 pm, ijda...@softbase.cs.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Davis)
>wrote:
>> In article <2129ed14-cb79-4d58-8f72-946d87b24...@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>> <<Kelly>> <<Kelly> wrote:
>> >On Dec 18, 11:08 pm, ijda...@softbase.cs.uwaterloo.ca (Ian Davis)
>> >wrote:
>
>> >> If the Church Were Christian Jesus would be a model for living rather than
>> >> an object of worship.
>
>IMHO the Church after 2000 years CANNOT be Christian;
>I anticipate the coming post-Christian Era...
In your HO, you're wrong.
>Further, IMHO Jesus Christ should not be a model for
>living for modern people except for his compassion, brilliance
>of mind, and some of his ethics/philosophy.
He is our example of complete obedience to the Father.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Nyarlat Hotep
Martin Edwards
> NO. Son of a cuckold and a whore.
>