The Etruscan Gold Book
imipak
finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
this lost language.
http://farms.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&num=5&id=357
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=22691
A summary of what is purported to be "generally accepted" information
on the Etruscans (Étrusques) can be found at:
http://www.speedylook.com/Etruscan.html
In all cases, you will notice that they describe at most the
illustrations and the BBC kindly provides a photograph of one of them.
Not one offers any images of the text. This is likely to be, in part,
an effort to limit who can crack the language first, as this is the
only contiguous text of any length in existence. However, the choice
of illustrations might indicate what the book might contain.
According to the BBC the illustrations are of a horse-rider, a
mermaid, a harp and soldiers. I'm guessing the illustration is of the
soldiers, who appear to be carrying something between them.
So, anyone want to offer thoughts on what the book is for?
Ned Latham
>
> One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
> finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
> linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
> this lost language.
>
> http://farms.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&num=5&id=357
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm
> http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=22691
>
> A summary of what is purported to be "generally accepted" information
> on the Etruscans (Étrusques) can be found at:
>
> http://www.speedylook.com/Etruscan.html
>
> In all cases, you will notice that they describe at most the
> illustrations and the BBC kindly provides a photograph of one of them.
> Not one offers any images of the text. This is likely to be, in part,
> an effort to limit who can crack the language first, as this is the
> only contiguous text of any length in existence.
Whatever the motive, it's an apalling travesty of scholarship. They've
had it for five years, and *still* we can't have a look at the text?
Shame, shame, shame!
> However, the choice
> of illustrations might indicate what the book might contain.
>
> According to the BBC the illustrations are of a horse-rider, a
> mermaid, a harp and soldiers. I'm guessing the illustration is of the
> soldiers, who appear to be carrying something between them.
>
> So, anyone want to offer thoughts on what the book is for?
Not I. They've released so little that any such thoughts could only
be uninformed speculation.
Ned
Agamemnon
"imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:047157ec-8366-4613...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
<<<One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
this lost language.>>>
It aint Etruscan if it was found in Bulgaria. It's either Thracian or
Scythian.
Get an education.
VtSkier
>
> "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:047157ec-8366-4613...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> <<<One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
> finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
> linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
> this lost language.>>>
>
> It aint Etruscan if it was found in Bulgaria. It's either Thracian or
> Scythian.
>
> Get an education.
>
> <<<http://farms.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&num=5&id=357
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm
> http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=22691
>
> A summary of what is purported to be "generally accepted" information
> on the Etruscans (Étrusques) can be found at:
>
> http://www.speedylook.com/Etruscan.html
Boy is this hard to read. It is either badly
translated from another language or the author
definitely does not have English as his first
language.
And yes, the Sophia gold book is mentioned as
having perhaps some connection with Etruscans.
Agamemnon
"VtSkier" <VtS...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:70idbhF...@mid.individual.net...
> Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>> "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:047157ec-8366-4613...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> <<<One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
>> finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
>> linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
>> this lost language.>>>
>>
>> It aint Etruscan if it was found in Bulgaria. It's either Thracian or
>> Scythian.
>>
>> Get an education.
>>
>> <<<http://farms.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&num=5&id=357
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm
>> http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=22691
>>
>> A summary of what is purported to be "generally accepted" information
>> on the Etruscans (Étrusques) can be found at:
>>
>> http://www.speedylook.com/Etruscan.html
>
> Boy is this hard to read. It is either badly
> translated from another language or the author
> definitely does not have English as his first
> language.
>
> And yes, the Sophia gold book is mentioned as
> having perhaps some connection with Etruscans.
HA... HA... HA... SIMPLY LAUGHABLE!
Whoever said that is totally clueless in both history and geography.
Sophus
>
> "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:047157ec-8366-4613...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> <<<One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
> finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
> linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
> this lost language.>>>
>
> It aint Etruscan if it was found in Bulgaria. It's either Thracian or
> Scythian.
>
> Get an education.
You can find the Parthenon marbles in London. That doesn't make them
English. Things can be moved, you know.
SP
imipak
> "imipak" wrote:
>
> > One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
> > finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
> > linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
> > this lost language.
>
> >http://farms.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&num=5&id=357
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm
> >http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=22691
>
> > A summary of what is purported to be "generally accepted" information
> > on the Etruscans (Étrusques) can be found at:
>
> >http://www.speedylook.com/Etruscan.html
>
> > In all cases, you will notice that they describe at most the
> > illustrations and the BBC kindly provides a photograph of one of them.
> > Not one offers any images of the text. This is likely to be, in part,
> > an effort to limit who can crack the language first, as this is the
> > only contiguous text of any length in existence.
>
> Whatever the motive, it's an apalling travesty of scholarship. They've
> had it for five years, and *still* we can't have a look at the text?
>
> Shame, shame, shame!
I would have to agree. Many of the 15,000 artifacts looted from the
Baghdad Museum were Sumerian and Akkadian inscriptions that were never
recorded - or, inf they were, were never disseminated to any public
archive. That's a lot of writing that is now effectively lost forever,
damaging - if not crippling - studies into ancient Mesopotamian
history.
This book is the ONLY known Etruscan book to have survived intact,
making its text infinitely more valuable for scholars and other
interested parties. The enormity of what is being held onto cannot be
overstated. Digital libraries are everywhere (I've linked to a fair
few elsewhere) and it really doesn't take a whole lot of effort to
photograph six pages, then e-mail them to one such archive. The risk
to our understanding of Etruscan civilization should the book suffer
damage or theft is incalculable, but museums do catch fire and
artifacts do get stolen. The fact that Etruscan studies is as
paralyzed as it is, without this information, further shows how
important it is that the text be distributed.
The only possibility I can think of for why it isn't is that the
professor studying it is hoping exclusive access will permit him to
break the riddle of the Etruscan language before anyone else. In other
words, scholarly greed and vanity. I could be wrong, but it doesn't
take five years to buy a roll of film or borrow a digital camera.
imipak
> "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:047157ec-8366-4613...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> <<<One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
> finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
> linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
> this lost language.>>>
>
> It aint Etruscan if it was found in Bulgaria. It's either Thracian or
> Scythian.
>
> Get an education.
I pity those who suffer your presence for more than just a few brief
messages.
1. After the rise of Christianity, Etruscan books were destroyed in
large quantities. Any Etruscan with any sense (and any books left)
would have pegged it for the nearest border the first chance they got.
2. The Etruscans were also extensive traders - the Romans got their
alphabet from them, as did the Greeks - making it entirely likely that
Etruscan books would end up in the hands of others.
3. Don't you think they can tell the difference between Thracian
writing and Etruscan writing? Don't you think there might be a
difference between Scythian illustrations (particularly of people like
soldiers) and Etruscan illustrations?
4. Since you deny the Etruscans ever existed, you have no business
telling anyone where Etruscan books might be found.
5. Unless you can produce a copy of the text, along with Thracian and
Scythian texts for comparison, why should anyone consider your
opinions on the matter worth a damn?
imipak
> Agamemnon wrote:
>
> > "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:047157ec-8366-4613...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> > <<<One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
> > finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
> > linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
> > this lost language.>>>
>
> > It aint Etruscan if it was found in Bulgaria. It's either Thracian or
> > Scythian.
>
> > Get an education.
>
> > <<<http://farms.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=23&num=5&id=357
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2939362.stm
> >http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=22691
>
> > A summary of what is purported to be "generally accepted" information
> > on the Etruscans (Étrusques) can be found at:
>
> >http://www.speedylook.com/Etruscan.html
>
> Boy is this hard to read. It is either badly
> translated from another language or the author
> definitely does not have English as his first
> language.
>
> And yes, the Sophia gold book is mentioned as
> having perhaps some connection with Etruscans.
Judging from the links of the Speedylook Etruscan page, I'm going to
guess the author is Belgian or maybe French. If French, then the
document would almost have to have been originally in French due to
the peculiarities of French law. In either case, English will
certainly not have been the author's first language. That's
understandable, but it would have been better if the English version
had been produced by someone with a greater command of the language.
It's not as if there's a shortage.
VtSkier
Laughable eh? It was your reference. Didn't you read it?
The other references, including the Mormon one were
from imipak, but supplied the speedylook ref and it
does mention the Sophia gold book as a probable
Etruscan artifact/text.
> Whoever said that is totally clueless in both history and geography.
Oh? How so? Do enlighten us.
Agamemnon
More lies.
> The other references, including the Mormon one were
> from imipak, but supplied the speedylook ref and it
> does mention the Sophia gold book as a probable
> Etruscan artifact/text.
LAUGHABLE!
>
>> Whoever said that is totally clueless in both history and geography.
>
> Oh? How so? Do enlighten us.
Work it out you IDIOT! The language hasn't even been deciphered. There are
no such things as Etruscans so no such thing as the Etruscan language. The
Tyrssenoi lived in northern Italy since 1400 BC. The Tuscans lived in
northern Italy since 1500 BC. The book was found in Bulgaria. That is where
the Thracians and the Scyths originated from and were still living there in
600 BC, therefore the language is either Thracians or Scythian, or possibly
even Dardanian.
Agamemnon
On Feb 24, 5:38 am, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:047157ec-8366-4613...@j38g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> <<<One of the most fascinating, but least described, of all the Etruscan
> finds is the Gold Book. It is currently being studied by the Bulgarian
> linguistics professor Vladimir I. Georgiev, in efforts to understand
> this lost language.>>>
>
> It aint Etruscan if it was found in Bulgaria. It's either Thracian or
> Scythian.
>
> Get an education.
<<<I pity those who suffer your presence for more than just a few brief
messages.
1. After the rise of Christianity, Etruscan books were destroyed in
large quantities. Any Etruscan with any sense (and any books left)
would have pegged it for the nearest border the first chance they got.>>>
There is no such thing as Etruscan. Specify the exactly Italian tribe being
referred to and the historians that refer to it in Latin or Greek or else
retract that statement.
<<<2. The Etruscans were also extensive traders - the Romans got their
alphabet from them, as did the Greeks - making it entirely likely that
Etruscan books would end up in the hands of others.>>>>
There are no such thing as Etruscans. Northern Italy was inhabited by
Tyrssenoi, Tusci, Pelasgians, and also some Colchians. To which entities are
you referring to?
The Greeks got their alphabet which was based on Proto-Sinaitic from Cadmus
who was a Greek-Egyptian, and the Phoenicians got it from his brother
Phoenix. The Tyrssenoi probably got the alphabet from Cadmus when he was in
Thrace before Dardanus caused Tyrssenus to migrate to northern Italy. Even
if the Italian tribes obtained it later, it cannot have been later than 1200
BC since by then Palamedes had added symbols for Theta, Ksi, Fi and Xi which
did not exist in the Latin alphabet, hence the Romans inability to spell
Greek words which used these letters without combinations like Th or Ks etc.
<<<3. Don't you think they can tell the difference between Thracian
writing and Etruscan writing? Don't you think there might be a
difference between Scythian illustrations (particularly of people like
soldiers) and Etruscan illustrations?>>>
Considering that there is no such thing as Etruscan, and texts found to have
been written in some northern Italian dialect or dialects have not been
deciphered and no texts exist written in Thracian or Scythian, and this
particular text hasn't been deciphered either, they would be systematic
LIARS if they called it Etruscan.
<<<4. Since you deny the Etruscans ever existed, you have no business
telling anyone where Etruscan books might be found.>>>
Since the Etruscans are pure fantasy, and this is a history newsgroup, yes I
do.
<<<5. Unless you can produce a copy of the text, along with Thracian and
Scythian texts for comparison, why should anyone consider your
opinions on the matter worth a damn?>>>
IDIOT! I'm a historian. You don't even have a clue what history is. You
connect it with some sort of re-enactment fantasy of yours.
VtSkier
It's lie that you supplied the reference?
It's a lie that you read the webpage?
I thought so.
>> The other references, including the Mormon one were
>> from imipak, but supplied the speedylook ref and it
>> does mention the Sophia gold book as a probable
>> Etruscan artifact/text.
>
> LAUGHABLE!
Hey, I didn't write it, I didn't
provide a reference to it. You did.
Does that make you laughable?
>>> Whoever said that is totally clueless in both history and geography.
>>
>> Oh? How so? Do enlighten us.
>
> Work it out you IDIOT! The language hasn't even been deciphered. There
> are no such things as Etruscans so no such thing as the Etruscan
> language. The Tyrssenoi lived in northern Italy since 1400 BC. The
> Tuscans lived in northern Italy since 1500 BC. The book was found in
> Bulgaria. That is where the Thracians and the Scyths originated from and
> were still living there in 600 BC, therefore the language is either
> Thracians or Scythian, or possibly even Dardanian.
Yeah, maybe, so what? Experts who
know more than you or I strongly suggest
that the book is Etruscan. How it got
to Bulgaria is anybody's guess.
How did that Egyptian thingy get to
Trafalgar Square?
VtSkier
(snip)
> IDIOT! I'm a historian. You don't even have a clue what history is. You
> connect it with some sort of re-enactment fantasy of yours.
You are a historian? I would never have
guessed.
Where did you get your degree? What is your
degree's major? What institution granted this
degree? What are your other credentials?
What have you published as a historical paper
which has been peer reviewed in a professional
journal?
imipak
According to the Arthurian thread, his degree (according to him) is
supposedly in physics from Imperial College. If this is true, he is
not a qualified historian and his argument is bunk. If this is false,
then he has no degree or other higher qualifications whatsoever. As he
failed to answer several stock physics questions, I am inclined to
believe he has no degree or, indeed, any knowledge of physics beyond
perhaps O-Level/GCSE basics, although is he answered all the questions
with "LIAR!", I am inclined to believe he would have failed that as
well.
The only vaguely historical credentials he has claimed is translating
a bit of a text from Latin for a text book. However, he subsequently
proved in the Tintagil Stone debate that he lacks a knowledge of Latin
grammar. Although he was indeed able to show that a book did indeed
exist, he failed to show that he contributed anything to it or was
even asked to. We have no grounds for believing his claim.
Regardless, he has himself stated that he has no qualifications in
history (ancient or modern) and that he rejects any and all texts on
history published in the past 300 years (which is most of them). No
University is going to pass a student who answers all coursework with
"IDIOT!" and "POPPYCOCK!". Very few would even consider passing a
student who rejected all modern texts - unless they gave an extremely
comprehensive, thorough, detailed rebuttal (with citations) of the
kind that would win major awards and revolutionize the field. His
consistent failure to exhibit the ability to give anything more than a
few cheap insults is a strong indicator that he lacks the writing
skills to give such a rebuttal, even if he had a case. As such, it is
safe to assume that no University would award him so much as the time
of day.
imipak
> "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> large quantities. Any Etruscan with any sense (and any books left)
> would have pegged it for the nearest border the first chance they got.>>>
>
> There is no such thing as Etruscan. Specify the exactly Italian tribe being
> referred to and the historians that refer to it in Latin or Greek or else
> retract that statement.
Simple enough. The Roman name for them was the Etrusci. This can be
found in Roman histories of the period. Now that I have satisfied your
demand, kindly retract your claim they didn't exist -or- retract your
claim that the Roman histories are valid. One or both has to be wrong.
> <<<5. Unless you can produce a copy of the text, along with Thracian and
> Scythian texts for comparison, why should anyone consider your
> opinions on the matter worth a damn?>>>
>
> IDIOT! I'm a historian. You don't even have a clue what history is. You
> connect it with some sort of re-enactment fantasy of yours.
Your earlier claim was that you got your degree in physics. Which is
it? Are you lying now or were you lying then? Not that it matters, you
have shown no ability to provide arguments in any academically-
accepted format and your claim of having translated a book segment
failed to convince after you refused to provide evidence you were an
active contributor (or that any contribution you offered was
accepted). Your lack of understanding of basic Latin grammar probably
didn't help much, either.
Do not expect me to forget even a single one of your pompous claims. I
am also more than capable of providing links into the USENET archives.
I have threatened this before. Hell, other people have DONE this
before. Be very clear that you can't revise your own history because
each and every post you have ever made IS recorded and can be used
against you.
Agamemnon
You are a liar.
>
>>> The other references, including the Mormon one were
>>> from imipak, but supplied the speedylook ref and it
>>> does mention the Sophia gold book as a probable
>>> Etruscan artifact/text.
>>
>> LAUGHABLE!
>
> Hey, I didn't write it, I didn't
> provide a reference to it. You did.
No I did not. You are a liar.
> Does that make you laughable?
>
>>>> Whoever said that is totally clueless in both history and geography.
>>>
>>> Oh? How so? Do enlighten us.
>>
>> Work it out you IDIOT! The language hasn't even been deciphered. There
>> are no such things as Etruscans so no such thing as the Etruscan
>> language. The Tyrssenoi lived in northern Italy since 1400 BC. The
>> Tuscans lived in northern Italy since 1500 BC. The book was found in
>> Bulgaria. That is where the Thracians and the Scyths originated from and
>> were still living there in 600 BC, therefore the language is either
>> Thracians or Scythian, or possibly even Dardanian.
>
> Yeah, maybe, so what? Experts who
> know more than you or I strongly suggest
Experts who know nothing. They've not even seen the text let alone attempted
to decipher it and the claim it's Etruscan.
> that the book is Etruscan. How it got
Laughable.
> to Bulgaria is anybody's guess.
It's Thracian or Scythian.
>
> How did that Egyptian thingy get to
> Trafalgar Square?
It's not Etruscan. There are no such things as Etruscans.
The Carians are known to have had a colony in Egypt from about 650 BC at the
same time as the went there as mercenaries with the Ionians. That Egyptian
thingy is probably Carian, since as we all know the Tyrssenoi were descended
from Tyrssenus the brother of Car the founder of the Carians.
Agamemnon
You are a systematic serial LIAR!
Italo
> There are no such things as Etruscans so no such thing as
> the Etruscan language. The Tyrssenoi lived in northern
> Italy since 1400 BC. The Tuscans lived in northern Italy
> since 1500 BC. The book was found in Bulgaria. That is
> where the Thracians and the Scyths originated from and
> were still living there in 600 BC, therefore the language
> is either Thracians or Scythian, or possibly even
> Dardanian.
This 'gold book' was apparently found in the Strymon
(Struma) river valley. The towns Sintia and Heraclea Sintica
are supposed to've been in that area. The Sinties inhabited
Lemnos before it was captured by the Argonauts and Minyae.
The Sinties were the same as the Dardani:
"After devastating the neighbouring district of Illyria, he
[Philip II] turned swiftly into Pelagonia and captured
Sintia, a city of the Dardani" - Livy 26.25
The Sinties, Pelagonian Dardani and Maedi/Mysi were probably
among the 'Thracians and Pelasgians' who went to Thebes and
Athens and Lemnos.
--
Boycott American products
Agamemnon
On Feb 24, 12:10 pm, "Agamemnon" <agamem...@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> "imipak" <imi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> 1. After the rise of Christianity, Etruscan books were destroyed in
> large quantities. Any Etruscan with any sense (and any books left)
> would have pegged it for the nearest border the first chance they got.>>>
>
> There is no such thing as Etruscan. Specify the exactly Italian tribe
> being
> referred to and the historians that refer to it in Latin or Greek or else
> retract that statement.
<<<Simple enough. The Roman name for them was the Etrusci. This can be>>>
So you are referring to the Tyrrsenoi and to no other tribe. Not the
Tuscans, not the Pelasgians, not the Cochians nor anyone else. Now provide
references to the texts that refer to this Tyrrhenian book burning.
> <<<5. Unless you can produce a copy of the text, along with Thracian and
> Scythian texts for comparison, why should anyone consider your
> opinions on the matter worth a damn?>>>
>
> IDIOT! I'm a historian. You don't even have a clue what history is. You
> connect it with some sort of re-enactment fantasy of yours.
<<<Your earlier claim was that you got your degree in physics. Which is>>>
Correct.
<<<it? Are you lying now or were you lying then? Not that it matters, you>>>
No. Anyone can be a historian, even Isaac Newton called himself a historian
and what is he most famous for. A degree in physics makes me better
qualified to study ancient history than anyone with a degree in history,
since I have a better grasp of dates and numbers and scientific methods and
observation and analysis and connecting information together, and I'm fluent
in Koine so can read the texts in their original language.
<<<have shown no ability to provide arguments in any academically-
accepted format and your claim of having translated a book segment
failed to convince after you refused to provide evidence you were an
active contributor (or that any contribution you offered was>>>
You are a LIAR! I gave you a link to the text which cites my name as a
contributor.
<<<accepted). Your lack of understanding of basic Latin grammar probably
didn't help much, either.>>>
You are a LIAR! It is you that lacks a basic understand of Latin grammar as
well as vocabulary as I amply demonstrated with the Tintagil stone.
Spirit of Truth
................................................................................................
................................................................................................
There is also a huge amount of archival documents etc. still
not retrieved from buried Pompeii.
Spirit of Truth