Defreitas in Grenada
cindy kilgore
Are you sure they are not from Madeira? A lot of wine comes out of this
Portuguese island and at least, in St. Vincent, a lot of people
emigrated over in the mid-1800's. Portugal, on the other hand, was
consumed by locusts out of North Africa at this time, and people were
forced to flee or starve as the nation was almost reduced to famine. I
wouldn't assume this is their first business - other than on Grenada -
they probably didn't come empty-handed. Do you know when they arrived
on the island? Also if you can get ahold of the Grenada Blue Book for
that year, it will certainly give you some clues as to liquor licenses,
etc. Of course, the only ones I know of are in St. George's but maybe
Merrill, if she's out there listening, may know elsewhere.
Are there no end to these puzzles? Yes, you and all the living
relatives are the end thus far ..... enjoy the journey.
Best wishes,
Cindy
On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 09:00 AM, CARIBBEAN-D-request@rootsweb.
>
> It has come to the families attention that family lore stated that D.
> Defreitas had a tavern in Grenada where it was said pirates often
> stopped and shopped so to speak. At first we assumed it was romantic
> family stories.. but recently we have cause to believe that it might
> have been true.. Do any of you have a means of searching businesses in
> Grenada such as this?? It would have been early to mid 1880's as by
> the late 1800's they had The Douglaston Plantation..It would fill in
> the gap possible of the time of their arrival until there plantation
> days.. Which of COURSE leads to another question,, how did they get
> their start IF this was their first business...Fresh from > Portugal????
>
> Are there no end to these puzzles?? Everytime you think you know it
> all, things like this jump out and you start all over again.
>
> Lenora...
>
CaribGenWeb Coordinator
My understanding is that most of the Portuguese immigrants to the West
Indies were Madeiran. The stories that I have read about the early Madeiran
Immigrants to Trinidad and Guyana indicate that most of them were, in fact,
virtually penniless when they arrived. Many of them were indentured
servants. They would work out their indenture while conducting small scale
commerce on the side, then many of them stayed to start businesses of their
own. Rum shops were a common business venture for Portuguese as they had a
low cost of entry. One should not confuse these establishments with a bar
or tavern. They were typically dry goods stores that would also sell liquor
by the glass. Many of these stores were simply the front rooms of houses,
and catered to the working class.
Keep in mind that the "Portagees" were considered to be low-class whites.
As such, they were not welcomed into the social circles of other Europeans
such as the French or English. They found their niche in society - in
conjunction with the Chinese and later the Syrians - as merchants that
bridged the gap between the "high class" whites, and the working class
Africans, Indians etc. Their entrepreneurial prowess made them the envy of
other whites, and there were even instances of riots in British Guiana where
Portuguese shop owners were beaten and their stores burned or looted.
Earlier migrants paved the way for later waves of migration. Many Madeiran
Portuguese kept in touch with family back "home", formed Portguese social
clubs etc. Immigration from Madeira continued up until the early 1900's.
My own Great Grandfather is a classic example of the West Indian Portuguese
success story. His parents came to St. Vincent in the late 1800's where he
was born. He left St. Vincent to work for his older brother who had started
a business in British Guiana. He went to sea as a deck hand to see more of
the world, worked as a civilian employee of the US Army during the Spanish
American War, and arrived in Trinidad at the turn of the century. He bought
a rum shop with his savings, parleyed his earnings into a leather tannery,
then began making shoes and investing in real estate, including a small
cocoa plantation. He served on the City Council of Port of Spain for over
30 years, and served one term as Mayor. Even with those credentials, his
son (my Grandfather) had to sneak around to date my French Creole
grandmother. Her father did not approve of her dating a Portuguese....
Hope this helps.
Dean de Freitas
Lenora Anderson
a supposedly weathy family.. but I haven't been able to get back far enough
from Grenada to prove this.. but the story is the same with all the
deFreitas family members as being told they were originally from Madeira.As
far as we can tell. they came to Grenada in mid to early 1800's.
Unfortunately I am unable to come up with the Blue Book you mention...they
were said to have been active in politics in Portugal also. maybe this had
something to do with this all too.. I have tried searching Portugal as I was
also told that they had a lot of family in Lisbon and close areas and that
might be the very earliest family lines from there then to Madiera.. I have
checked out books from the lilbrary but they haven't bee of much help..
mostly typical repeats of history. such as school books etc. I did go to
the Portugeuse web and joined.. There are a lot of people out there trying
to trace this family! Of course I understand while its uncommon in our
days of searching.. tis a common name there.. but I am also told that they
had a big family so if I can find Sebastian deFreitas there, it will lead to
others in the family. Thanks to all who have helped me so much. Of it
werent for your care and guidance I would have given up by now..
Lenora
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Lenora Anderson
only as far as background goes..I "assumed "that there was some money in the
family as there was said to be a lot when in Madeira (?).. I do know that
Sebastians sons went on to become members of Parliment and appeared in who
Who In the World Books.. And still lines appear in British government papers
and political writings there..So of course I thought it would take some good
background to be able to be in the whos Who In the world books as they have
to be selective and draw the line somewhere....But the part about the RUM
shop might make more sense as the oldest children of this line,, thoug very
young when he died, remembered being sent upstairs(?) when the "pirates"
came to frequent the business... Now that I know Sebastion had business
before he started plantations,, it seems that he started the platantion and
spice growing ,, and also rum,, for the benefit of his children...they
inherited Dougalston. It looks like it was just another business venture for
the sake of the children.. Of course if you sold enough rum to the pirates
that frequented his business.. you could afford to build estates for his
children.. Mostly it seems for the benefit of Anna Petronella deFreitas who
married Peter Brown,, who's family became affiliated with and help manage
Dougalston. Perhaps these Browns and deFreitas all started out together???.
I can see that I have to find a good source of Madeira and try there again..
my local LDS is small and has llittle knowledge in this area.
Good to hear from you again.
Lenora.
Lenora Anderson
told..how could this be coming from Grenada?? OR did she learn it as that is
what was spoken where she was born in St. Vincent ( family records, on death
certificate.. other death record said St. John's).. so its confuses me as to
which is right.. the info given by grandchildren in the USA....
----- Original Message -----
From: "CaribGenWeb Coordinator" <car...@bellsouth.net>
To: <CARIB...@rootsweb.com>
Subject: Re: Defreitas in Grenada
Richard Bond
French well after the acquisition of the islands by the English.
Richard Bond
picture that I get from inductive logic. Treating skins is a very messy
and unpleasant job. It is removing the carcasse then stretching it on a
frame to scrape off the remining meat and fat. People who do that kind
of work frequently have a lingering odor that comes from handling the
skins of carrion. After the dressing is done the skins are boiled in a
vat of cure. This cure can be made a number of ways but sometimes
included dried dog feces and livestock urine as well as brine and bark.
It is very profitable as few people want to do it as a trade. I doubt
that your ancestor was doing the worst work himself. Owning a rum shop
would put him in contact with just the sort of marginal laborers who
would be willng to take that on.
Tim Anderson
Seven years later, the family moved to Tobago. Her children remember
her carrying on business discussions in Patois with visiting
Grenadians until one of them learned enough French in college to keep
up with conversation.
Tim
CaribGenWeb Coordinator
Actually we know exactly how it happened from his memoir. He bought a
tanning business that had foundered from the previous owener, inheriting the
employees that already worked for the firm.
Dean
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Bond" <Richa...@webtv.net>
To: <CARIB...@rootsweb.com>
CLo...@aol.com
Are any French surnames of St.Vincent in the late 18C known to you? - such
as Bernier, Questel, LaPlace and Brin? These are families that came from
Saint-Barthelemy.
Thanks for any comments.
Charles Loeber in New York City
Lisa
I know that Sebastian was a well used DeFreitas name - however - I came
across a DeFrietas "vaguely" related to my Johnsons in Barbados, though the
family had moved on to Trini at some point. It is from World Gen Web & not
confirmed by me :
My G-grandmother was a Johnson - married to a Clarke in Barbados. My
grandmother's brother's second wife (!) was also a Johnson. Plodding around
to see what became of them, I came across her cousin in Trinidad (who
knew?). His name was Victor Colin Anthony Johnson, and he married an Edith
Florence Sheppard . She was apparently the daughter of Charles Sebastian
Sheppard b.1884, son of Alfred Sheppard, possibly England, and Virginia
DeFrietas, she the daughter of a Sebastian DeFrietas - wife unknown. The
info on World Gen Web doesn't have where he was from and dates are just
approx from working backwards, giving 25 yrs a generation ( just a guess)
I'd say Sebastian was b around 1820 ???.
Lisa
James W Cropper
There were many French inhabitants in early St. Vincent. QUESTEL is of
interest as there were several connections to my family. What are some of
the first names and decades of the QUESTELs you are researching?
Jim C.
CLo...@aol.com
Thanks for the response. I am a descendant of all of the French settler
families of Saint-Barthelemy; that is the families LaPlace, (my mother's
direct family), Greaux, Bernier, Brin, and Questel, as well as others.
My interest is in a sojourn that some of the families from the Windward
Side of St-Barths took to St.Vincent in about 1750 to 1770. These Windward
folks, including some LaPlaces, came back from St.Vincent with a new language
- Guadeloupe Creole, as well as slaves that they may not have had before.
I am doing a general family history Jim so St-Barths activity is of
interest. You can see a bit of my work at:
Hometown.aol.coom/CLoeber/Index.html (no www) (no 2nd page).
Thanks for anything.
CaribGenWeb Coordinator
Subject: Re: Defreitas in Grenada
Dean de Freitas
Thanks for the info. My de Freitas line didn't arrive in Trinidad until the
turn of the century, so I don't think there's any relation to your
Sebastian.
Thanks again,
Dean
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa" <lj...@optonline.net>
To: <CARIB...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Defreitas in Grenada
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