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-ic/-ich in Serbo-Croat

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An8tracker

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Sep 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/24/98
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Group,

I have Serbian ancestors who lived in the northern region of Croatia. Their
names (in the US) were Radanovic and Savich. My question is how is -ic and
-ich pronounced in the Serbo-Croat language. Radanovic is pronounced
Ra-dan-o-vick now, but there are lots of people with the Radanovich (pronounced
-itch) surname in the US. Also, on an early birth certificate i have,
Radanovic is spelled Radanovitch.. Savich is pronounced as it looks with the
-itch sound by my family, but an early obituary has it mispelled as Savicke
while the same birth certificate has it spelled as Savitch, leaving me
completley confused about what the original spellings and pronunciations might
have been in Europe. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark Bugno - Youngstown, Ohio, USA

Researching the surnames: Serbian: RADANOVIC, SAVICH - Polish: OWCARZ, OSIAL,
STOPNICKI (STOPNICK) - German/Yugoslavian: BUGNO - Hungarian: OTT - Slovak:
BUS, VASKO, PAVLIK, CHETSKO, BEDNAR, VAJDA, PETRUSKA

CL@IRE

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Sep 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/24/98
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Mark,

All Serbosniakroatian -iches (-ic' or "soft -tch") are to be pronounced
"-tch" or -ch as in cheese, chocolate, chevapchichi (I'm not insane but
hungry) but in a softer way american people do ignore. So just say and
learn others to say "Rudunoveech" and despise those who use to say
"Rudunovikkkkk" the pretentious way.

Do Vidjena,

cl@ire

Petar Kolakovic

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Sep 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/24/98
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In article <19980924154450...@ng68.aol.com>,
an8tr...@aol.com (An8tracker) wrote:

> Group,
>
> I have Serbian ancestors who lived in the northern region of Croatia. Their
> names (in the US) were Radanovic and Savich. My question is how is -ic and
> -ich pronounced in the Serbo-Croat language. Radanovic is pronounced
> Ra-dan-o-vick now, but there are lots of people with the Radanovich
(pronounced
> -itch) surname in the US. Also, on an early birth certificate i have,
> Radanovic is spelled Radanovitch.. Savich is pronounced as it looks with the
> -itch sound by my family, but an early obituary has it mispelled as Savicke
> while the same birth certificate has it spelled as Savitch, leaving me
> completley confused about what the original spellings and pronunciations might
> have been in Europe. Any help is appreciated.

In both Serbian and Croatian, many names end in ic, or vic, with an accent
over the "c". There is no "h" in the original languages - the "h" has been
added to anglicize the name in order for English speakers to be able to
pronounce names more easily. To repeat that perhaps more simply, any "c"
with an accent is pronounced "ch" in English, as in "chess". Therefore
your ancestors names, in Serbian, were Radanovic and Savic, pronounced as
"Radanovich" and "Savich", and were probably only changed when they came
to America.

I'm not sure where "Savicke" came from, though Serbian/Croatian grammar
can get tricky. For example, my name, Petar, would be spelt "Petar" if it
was the object of a sentence, but "Petra" if it were the subject of a
sentence. And if you were addressing me directly, you would call me
"Petre".

Hope this helps.


Cheers,
Petar
--
============================================

_\ _\ _\ _\ _\
_\ _\ _\ _\ Petar Kolakovic
_\ _\ _\ _\ _\ petar.k...@utoronto.ca
_\ _\ _\ (spam-free)
_\ _\ _\
_\ _\ _\

Hypocrisy is the vaseline of social intercourse

===========================================

Ribarnica

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Sep 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/25/98
to

In a quote sent 9/24/98 6:06 PM Central Daylight Time,

petar.k...@nospam.utoronto.ca (Petar Kolakovic) wrote:
>In both Serbian and Croatian, many names end in ic, or vic, with an >accent
>over the "c".

There are even two different marks (one looks like a standard accent, the other
like a carrick) To my ears they both sound like "ch", but I'm told that to a
native speaker, there is a world of difference.

> There is no "h" in the original languages - the "h" has been
>added to anglicize the name in order for English speakers to be able to
>pronounce names more easily.

Actually serbo-croatian _does_ use an "h" when it is using the Roman alphabet
(as oposed to the Cyrillic alphabet). In fact, the word for croatian is
"hrvatski". Of course your basic point does stand, the h was added to help
english-speakers know how to pronounce the name.

As far as "Savich"(mentioned in the original post by an8tr...@aol.com) , I've
been told that in the US, the name is often a truncation of a longer surname,
like Stojsavljevic (my wife's maiden name). On the other hand, it can also be
the full original surname, too. I am not certain of the accuracy of this
theory, though. I hope this helps!


>an8tr...@aol.com (An8tracker)

CL@IRE

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Sep 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/25/98
to

Savic' or Savich is a real, I mean untruncated, name, especially a
Serbian one meaning "son/descendent of a Sava", with Sava as the first
name (cf. Saint-Sava) not the river.

CL@IRE

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Sep 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/25/98
to
If it's really Savicke then it's a declinaison of SAVICKI (male)/SAVICKA
(female) sounds "suveetski".

The genuine serbosniacroatian "soft ch" sounds like the "tue" in
"Tuesday" prononced the BBC-english way but without the -ue- sound.

Petar Kolakovic

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Sep 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/25/98
to
In article <19980925081128...@ng83.aol.com>, riba...@aol.com
(Ribarnica) wrote:

> In a quote sent 9/24/98 6:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
> petar.k...@nospam.utoronto.ca (Petar Kolakovic) wrote:

<snip>

> > There is no "h" in the original languages - the "h" has been
> >added to anglicize the name in order for English speakers to be able to
> >pronounce names more easily.
>
> Actually serbo-croatian _does_ use an "h" when it is using the Roman alphabet
> (as oposed to the Cyrillic alphabet). In fact, the word for croatian is
> "hrvatski". Of course your basic point does stand, the h was added to help
> english-speakers know how to pronounce the name.

Yes, there is an "h" in the Roman script - what I meant to say is that
when you see surnames ending in "ch", the "h" has been added. Sorry for
the confusion.

Filippo SALVI

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Sep 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/30/98
to
Sorry, can u say in wich language is this?

Celý interface je napájen signály RTS a DTR. Diody D1 až D5 doporucuji v
Shottkyho provedení kvuli nižším proudovým nárokum

thanks a lot

sal...@tin.it

turr...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca

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Oct 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/2/98
to
Many of these words appeared in Czech Republic websites . . .

Filippo SALVI (sal...@tin.it) wrote:
: Sorry, can u say in wich language is this?

: thanks a lot

: sal...@tin.it

--
-----------------------------------oOo-----------------------------------
Jillian Dacyk - Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
[Researching surnames: Ash, Bointon, Carr, Foxton, Graham, Leadley,
Luccock, Metcalf, Smith, Vickerman (YRKS); Hines, Smiley, McGrath
(IRE/SCT); Dacyk, Fedorowich, Maniowski, Zajatz (Zaich), Zaleschuk
(UKR/POL) E-mail: turr...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

GMC0633

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Oct 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM10/4/98
to

This is Czech:

>Cel interface je napjen signly RTS a DTR. Diody D1 a D5 doporucuji v
Shottkyho proveden kvuli nim proudovm nrokum
J Piszczor

sedal...@gmail.com

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Jan 14, 2020, 2:06:46 AM1/14/20
to
On Thursday, September 24, 1998 at 9:00:00 AM UTC+2, An8tracker wrote:
> Group,
>
> I have Serbian ancestors who lived in the northern region of Croatia. Their
> names (in the US) were Radanovic and Savich. My question is how is -ic and
> -ich pronounced in the Serbo-Croat language. Radanovic is pronounced
> Ra-dan-o-vick now, but there are lots of people with the Radanovich (pronounced
> -itch) surname in the US. Also, on an early birth certificate i have,
> Radanovic is spelled Radanovitch.. Savich is pronounced as it looks with the
> -itch sound by my family, but an early obituary has it mispelled as Savicke
> while the same birth certificate has it spelled as Savitch, leaving me
> completley confused about what the original spellings and pronunciations might
> have been in Europe. Any help is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Bugno - Youngstown, Ohio, USA
>
> Researching the surnames: Serbian: RADANOVIC, SAVICH - Polish: OWCARZ, OSIAL,
> STOPNICKI (STOPNICK) - German/Yugoslavian: BUGNO - Hungarian: OTT - Slovak:
> BUS, VASKO, PAVLIK, CHETSKO, BEDNAR, VAJDA, PETRUSKA

Re the ich on the end of surnames; firstly the h is latinised, added to the ic end of surnames by immigration officers in Latin language based countries. The ev or ov preceding ic is diminutive or small, so by removing the ev or ov and ich from say my surname reveals the real surname Alfir, being a standard bearer in Italian. the origin of the evic originates from ancient formal documents where people are always referred to as say, Jure the son of milan as an example, thence shortened to evic.

Edward ivan Alfirevich.

sedal...@gmail.com

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Jan 14, 2020, 2:07:24 AM1/14/20
to

Flo Austin

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Oct 13, 2022, 9:20:14 PM10/13/22
to

I have a friend whose last name is Pavlovich. His ancestor added the h to the end so it would be pronounced correctly as did many Serbian and Croatian immigrants.
He is legally changing his first name and is considering changing his last name to how it originally was: Pavlović. He wonders if he should include the accent over the c or not, as many do, or if he should not remove the h. What is your opinion?
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