Born At Sea
Helene D'Auria
Hello everyone,
My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family was
emigrating from Germany. I'm at a total loss as to how to record a
birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would have been
registered. Can anyone help me with this?
Thanks!
Helene
"Helene D'Auria" <hda...@sbcglobal.net>
Ian Goddard
> My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family was
> emigrating from Germany. I'm at a total loss as to how to record a
> birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would have been
> registered. Can anyone help me with this?
>
Well, the recording part seems straightforward enough. Record him
as "born at sea". If you know the name of the ship include that
"born at sea aboard xxxxx". If that's what happened what else could
you put?
It's unlikely the birth would have been registered in Germany -
they'd hardly have gone back to do so. The most likely place would
have been the port of disembarkation if he were registered at all.
However the authorities there could have considered they had no
standing in the matter - he wasn't born on their premises, so to
speak, but simply arrived like any other immigrant. The other
possibility would be the home port of the ship.
However, even if you can't find a registration it shouldn't be a
problem. Most of our ancestors lived before civil registration was
introduced. I'm just finishing a local one-name study amounting to
30 families over a period of a century or so before civil
registration. I only have dates of birth for a few of the
individuals but that doesn't really get in the way.
--
Ian
Hotmail is for spammers. Real mail address is igoddard
at nildram co uk
Ian Goddard <godd...@hotmail.co.uk>
Steve Hayes
> My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family was
> emigrating from Germany. I'm at a total loss as to how to record a
> birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would have been
> registered. Can anyone help me with this?
>
On of the people in my family tree I have recorded as "At sea,
English Channel".
If you have the name of the vessel and the country of registration
you can add that information too.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Steve Hayes <haye...@hotmail.com>
cash...@aol.com
A friend of mine was on an American ship coming from Greece with his
mother.
He was born in the middle on the English Channel.
He was on his way to America.
He has citizenship in Greece (mother natal home)
Registered in England (Liverpool) by Captain when they docked and
mother filed for delayed birth certificate with papers signed by
Captain in New York a few years later when he needed a birth
certificate to register for school.
The Greek ambassador office in the Us filed in Greece for a birth
certificate in his mother's country as a Greek citizen.
He had Greek, English and American Citizenship until he became a
nuclear scientist working for the government. Now he is strictly an
American.
Lots of luck, but check where he was soon after his birth and his
mother's former country.
Ley K O'Connor
singhals
> My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family was
> emigrating from Germany. I'm at a total loss as to how to record a
> birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would have been
> registered. Can anyone help me with this?
>
> "Helene D'Auria" <hda...@sbcglobal.net>
I assume from the ISP that this boat was en route to a US port.
Almost have to record it as "Atlantic Ocean"...assuming she wasn't
pregnant enough to have given birth in the North Sea or the Irish
Sea.
Registered? Depends on your definition of "registered" (g). The
Ship's Captain was supposed to record births and deaths in his
official Log, and births were to appear at the /end/ of the
passenger lists.
Cheryl
singhals <sing...@erols.com>
Fred McKenzie
> My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family was
> emigrating from Germany. I'm at a total loss as to how to record a
> birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would have been
> registered. Can anyone help me with this?
>
Helene-
The same problem would exist for other events such as marriages and
deaths at sea. I think these are the sorts of things that would
have been entered in the ship's log.
I understand that being on a ship is considered the same as being on
the soil of the country where the ship belongs. Perhaps the captain
would have provided birth information to officials at the ship's
home port. If a US ship, to officials at the next US port after the
event.
Do you know anything about the ship? Have you found passenger
manifests listing your relatives and where they landed?
Fred
Fred McKenzie <fm...@aol.com>
Nancy
> My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family
> record a birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would
>
> "Helene D'Auria" <hda...@sbcglobal.net>
Helene,
I've heard that most likely the ship register has recorded the birth
at sea on the last page of the register as an added registration.
I'm sure that I remember seeing this on one of the registers as I
sought to find information on my family and just happened to look at
the last page and there were two separate births listed as being
born at sea. That is all I can remember and don't know just what
they list as facts but it's worth a try to check it out. Hope this
helps.
Regards
Nancy
Nancy <npos...@yahoo.com>
Percival P. Cassidy
> My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family was
> emigrating from Germany. I'm at a total loss as to how to record a
> birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would have been
> registered. Can anyone help me with this?
>
My understanding is that most countries consider that a child born
on a ship or aircraft registered in that country is a citizen of
that country -- whatever other citizenship the child may have by
descent.
Do you know the country of registration of the ship? I would expect
the birth to be registered in that country -- and in at least one
other.
Perce
"Percival P. Cassidy" <Nob...@NotMyISP.net>
Bob Melson
> > My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family
> > was emigrating from Germany.=A0 I'm at a total loss as to how to
> > record a birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would
> > have been registered.=A0 Can anyone help me with this?
> >
> > "Helene D'Auria" <hda...@sbcglobal.net>
>
> at sea on the last page of the register as an added registration.
> I'm sure that I remember seeing this on one of the registers as I
> sought to find information on my family and just happened to look at
> the last page and there were two separate births listed as being
> born at sea. That is all I can remember and don't know just what
> they list as facts but it's worth a try to check it out. Hope this
> helps.
>
If I remember my Consular guidelines correctly, a child born at sea
is considered to be a citizen of the ship's country of registration.
That's the simplest case.
I know you're not asking about US citizen parents, but if the
child's parents were/are US citizens then he/she acquired US
citizenship through the working of one of several laws even if the
ship was of foreign registry. I'm fuzzy on the date of the
earliest, but believe it was effective circa 1890; the others were
the Nationality Act of 1940 and the Citizenship and Nationality Act
of 1957, as amended.
It's entirely possible - more a certainty - that other countries
have/had similar laws regarding the birth abroad of children of
citizen parents.
Recording the birth would be a requirement placed on the ship's
master and would constitute the legal record of the event.
Registering the birth is/was usually the responsibility of the
parents who would, normally, go to a consulate of their home country
with a copy of the ship's record of the birth and register the child
as a child of the homeland. (But I'd be willing to bet that rarely
happened and the kid was just brought ashore from the ship and
registered nowhere.)
HTH,
Sleek Ol' Bob
--
Robert G. Melson | Rio Grande MicroSolutions | El Paso, Texas
-----
A government big enough to give you everything you want is big
enough to take away everything you have. Thomas Jefferson
Bob Melson <amia...@mypacks.net>
Helene D'Auria
> > > My great-great-grandfather was born on the boat when his family
> > > was emigrating from Germany.=A0 I'm at a total loss as to how to
> > > record a birth at sea and where, if anywhere, such a birth would
> > > have been registered.=A0 Can anyone help me with this?
> > >
> > > "Helene D'Auria" <hda...@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> > at sea on the last page of the register as an added registration.
> > I'm sure that I remember seeing this on one of the registers as I
> > sought to find information on my family and just happened to look at
> > the last page and there were two separate births listed as being
> > born at sea. That is all I can remember and don't know just what
> > they list as facts but it's worth a try to check it out. Hope this
> > helps.
> >
>
> If I remember my Consular guidelines correctly, a child born at sea
> is considered to be a citizen of the ship's country of registration.
> That's the simplest case.
>
> I know you're not asking about US citizen parents, but if the
> child's parents were/are US citizens then he/she acquired US
> citizenship through the working of one of several laws even if the
> ship was of foreign registry. I'm fuzzy on the date of the
> earliest, but believe it was effective circa 1890; the others were
> the Nationality Act of 1940 and the Citizenship and Nationality Act
> of 1957, as amended.
>
> It's entirely possible - more a certainty - that other countries
> have/had similar laws regarding the birth abroad of children of
> citizen parents.
>
> Recording the birth would be a requirement placed on the ship's
> master and would constitute the legal record of the event.
> Registering the birth is/was usually the responsibility of the
> parents who would, normally, go to a consulate of their home country
> with a copy of the ship's record of the birth and register the child
> as a child of the homeland. (But I'd be willing to bet that rarely
> happened and the kid was just brought ashore from the ship and
> registered nowhere.)
>
Thank you, everyone, for both your help on recording this and your
suggestions for how to follow it up. I don't know the boat they
came on, but I do know the date my great-great-grandfather was born.
If I'm understanding correctly, he would be considered a citizen of
whatever country the boat was registered in. His father was
naturalized two years after arriving in Philadelphia. Back to the
research! I really appreciate all the help.