places in Hawai'i

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Wes Groleau

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Feb 20, 2012, 11:11:25 PM2/20/12
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"Hawaii is the only state that has no incorporated places recognized
by the U.S. Census Bureau below the county level. All data for
places in Hawaii reported by the census are CDPs."

What are your opinions on how to put places in GEDCOM in Hawaii?

I have a marriage that occurred at a resort on the north shore of
Oahu not far from Hale'iwa

Normally, I have place, city, township, county, state, USA

But here, even though Honolulu (city) is only a small part of the
island of Oahu, the entire island is Honolulu county.

And although the place they got married at gets mail from Hale'iwa,
it is actually in a CDP called Pupukea five miles away.


--
Wes Groleau

You're all individuals!
Yes, we're all individuals!
You're all different!
Yes, we are all different!
I'm not!
("Life of Brian")

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>

Bob LeChevalier

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Feb 26, 2012, 3:36:40 PM2/26/12
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Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> "Hawaii is the only state that has no incorporated places recognized
> by the U.S. Census Bureau below the county level. All data for
> places in Hawaii reported by the census are CDPs."
>
> What are your opinions on how to put places in GEDCOM in Hawaii?

Legacy recognizes a raft of place names in Honolulu Co. I suspect
that the Family Search site has a similar raft of standardized place
names for those entering data there. Either seems like a reasonable
standard to me.


> I have a marriage that occurred at a resort on the north shore of
> Oahu not far from Hale'iwa
>
> Normally, I have place, city, township, county, state, USA

Both in the Family Search standard and in the newest version of
Legacy, the country is spelled out, "United States".

I don't usually include the township, unless there is no
recognizable city name. I'm not sure that all states even use a
township system. And Hawaii I suspect is one of them. Thus, my 4th
place from the right is some locator on the less-than-county level,
but not necessarily at any particular level. For burials, it is
often the cemetery name.


> But here, even though Honolulu (city) is only a small part of the
> island of Oahu, the entire island is Honolulu county.
>
> And although the place they got married at gets mail from Hale'iwa,
> it is actually in a CDP called Pupukea five miles away.

Legacy has both, but does not have the apostrophe in Haleiwa.

lojbab


--
Bob LeChevalier - artificial linguist; genealogist
loj...@lojban.org Lojban language www.lojban.org

Dennis Lee Bieber

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Mar 4, 2012, 2:07:18 PM3/4/12
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> I don't usually include the township, unless there is no
> recognizable city name. I'm not sure that all states even use a
> township system. And Hawaii I suspect is one of them. Thus, my 4th
> place from the right is some locator on the less-than-county level,
> but not necessarily at any particular level. For burials, it is
> often the cemetery name.
>
> Bob LeChevalier <loj...@lojban.org>


Townships are more of a mid-west/eastern concept being that they
are less a division of government than a division of land area... A
6x6 mile square, in 1x1 miles sections numbered 1 to 36 (and, as I
recall, not strictly left to right but in alternating rows: 1-6,
12-7, 13...). A section being 640 acres (leading to the SE 1/4 of
the NW 1/4 of section /n/ being the proverbial "back 40")

Many of the southwest fall out from Spanish/Mexican land schemes,
rather than some "orderly" expansion and homesteading...


--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
wlf...@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/

Dennis Lee Bieber

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Mar 5, 2012, 11:04:12 AM3/5/12
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> > I don't usually include the township, unless there is no

<snip>

> Many of the southwest fall out from Spanish/Mexican land schemes,
> rather than some "orderly" expansion and homesteading...
>
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf...@ix.netcom.com>


WOW... I sent that reply a week ago and it only shows up now? And
without an attribution line?


[ The s.g.methods moderator is right in the middle of a slow and
painful move to San Luis Obispo. I'll approve posts as fast as
I can ... - Mod ]

J. Hugh Sullivan

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Mar 5, 2012, 11:07:33 AM3/5/12
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> Townships are more of a mid-west/eastern concept being that they
> are less a division of government than a division of land area... A
> 6x6 mile square, in 1x1 miles sections numbered 1 to 36 (and, as I
> recall, not strictly left to right but in alternating rows: 1-6,
> 12-7, 13...). A section being 640 acres (leading to the SE 1/4 of
> the NW 1/4 of section /n/ being the proverbial "back 40")
>
> Dennis Lee Bieber <wlf...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:


Alabama uses the same concept. I have Engineer's county maps of two
counties showing range and section. I have walked through almost 50
cemeteries located on the maps and have pencilled in the land that
my and my wife's ancestors owned. I have found the remains of two of
their homesites - one is just a depression in the ground and the
other is an old well and some stones from a chimney that my dad
helped build.

That gives a realism to genealogy that a bunch of names in a
computer data base never offered.

Hugh

Ea...@bellsouth.net (J. Hugh Sullivan)

Kathy

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Mar 11, 2012, 5:31:43 PM3/11/12
to

>> Townships are more of a mid-west/eastern concept being that they
>> are less a division of government than a division of land area... A
>> 6x6 mile square, in 1x1 miles sections numbered 1 to 36 (and, as I
>> recall, not strictly left to right but in alternating rows: 1-6,
>> 12-7, 13...). A section being 640 acres (leading to the SE 1/4 of
>> the NW 1/4 of section /n/ being the proverbial "back 40")
>
> J. Hugh Sullivan


Townships are actually both land divisions and government
jurisdictions. Survey (or Congressional) townships were the units
into which federal land was platted, originally as a result of the
Northwest Ordinance. Later, many state governments used the survey
township boundaries to create jurisdictions known as civil
townships, which in most places provide government services to
unincorporated areas (i.e., land that is not otherwise incorporated
as a city, village, etc.). With few exceptions, civil townships
rarely maintain government records of use/interest to genealogists.
Those are usually kept and maintained by counties or states. You can
read more about these matters in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Land_Survey_System#Origins_of_the_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Township_%28United_States%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_township
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_township

Kathy

Kathy <len...@att.net>

Dennis Lee Bieber

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Mar 11, 2012, 5:34:09 PM3/11/12
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On Mon, 5 Mar 2012 08:04:12 -0800 (PST), Dennis Lee Bieber
<wlf...@ix.netcom.com> declaimed the following in
soc.genealogy.methods:

> [ The s.g.methods moderator is right in the middle of a slow and
> painful move to San Luis Obispo. I'll approve posts as fast as
> I can ... - Mod ]


It was more my surprise -- I'd totally forgotten about it.
And my condolences to the regular moderator... I was laid off in
October, spent November trying to pack my apartment (and still ran
short -- having to have a lot of stuff hauled away to be junked),
and nearly $20,000 to move to MI, only finding an apartment at the
end of January (I still have lots of stuff in my father's garage).

J. Hugh Sullivan

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Mar 11, 2012, 8:00:53 PM3/11/12
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>>> Townships are more of a mid-west/eastern concept being that they
>>> are less a division of government than a division of land area... A
>>> 6x6 mile square, in 1x1 miles sections numbered 1 to 36 (and, as I
>>> recall, not strictly left to right but in alternating rows: 1-6,
>>> 12-7, 13...). A section being 640 acres (leading to the SE 1/4 of
>>> the NW 1/4 of section /n/ being the proverbial "back 40")
>>
>> J. Hugh Sullivan
>
> Townships are actually both land divisions and government
> jurisdictions. Survey (or Congressional) townships were the units
> into which federal land was platted, originally as a result of the
> Northwest Ordinance. Later, many state governments used the survey
> township boundaries to create jurisdictions known as civil
> townships, which in most places provide government services to
> unincorporated areas (i.e., land that is not otherwise incorporated
> as a city, village, etc.). With few exceptions, civil townships
> rarely maintain government records of use/interest to genealogists.
> Those are usually kept and maintained by counties or states. You can
> read more about these matters in Wikipedia:
>
> Kathy <len...@att.net>


I did comment on townships as in the South. But the comment above
to which you responded should not have been attributed to me. No
problem -- just the facts.

Hugh

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