Re: familysearch.org not to be trusted

[L. L. Scott]

> But now that I know they are TELLING people to misrepresent documents, it is
> "do not trust"
>
> Wes Groleau


What does that mean?

"L. L. Scott" <llsco...@bellsouth.net>

[Wes Groleau]

> > But now that I know they are TELLING people to misrepresent documents, it is
> > "do not trust"
>

> What does that mean?
>
> L. L. Scott

'Twas earlier in the thread. They don't want us to index what the document
actually says, they want us to "correct" what we think are mistakes in the
document.


--
Wes Groleau

I've noticed lately that the paranoid fear of computers becoming
intelligent and taking over the world has almost entirely disappeared
from the common culture. Near as I can tell, this coincides with
the release of MS-DOS.
— Larry DeLuca

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>

[singhals]

> > But now that I know they are TELLING people to misrepresent documents, it is
> > "do not trust"
> >

> > Wes Groleau

>
> What does that mean?
>
> L. L. Scott

Which part?

They're telling people to misrepresent ... that's kind of harsh take on
what they're doing. Many of census records (1790-1940) have auditor
markings on them, including things that APPEAR to be crossed out. Prime
example, where the enumerator put a ---- to indicate the surname was the
same as the previous one, and then discovered he was recording a married
daughter whose surname was something else instead; usually, he just wrote
that surname over the ----. That, of course, makes it look as if the
married surname was "crossed out." That is what LDS wants indexed.
Another example, on one part of one county, the auditor (or bureaucrat or
whoever) at the Census put a short dash through the last letter of the name
as he counted. JONES then appears to be JONE; LDS wants the S included.
(g)

As for trusting the data, there are days I don't even believe my own lying
eyes. ;)

Cheryl

singhals <sing...@erols.com>

[Kathleen Craine]

> They're telling people to misrepresent ... that's kind of harsh take on
> what they're doing. Many of census records (1790-1940) have auditor
> markings on them, including things that APPEAR to be crossed out. Prime
> example, where the enumerator put a ---- to indicate the surname was the
> same as the previous one, and then discovered he was recording a married
> daughter whose surname was something else instead; usually, he just wrote
> that surname over the ----. That, of course, makes it look as if the
> married surname was "crossed out." That is what LDS wants indexed.
> Another example, on one part of one county, the auditor (or bureaucrat or
> whoever) at the Census put a short dash through the last letter of the
> name as he counted. JONES then appears to be JONE; LDS wants the S included.
> (g)
>
> As for trusting the data, there are days I don't even believe my own lying
> eyes. ;)
>

> Cheryl Singhals <sing...@erols.com>


I've found that too, Cheryl. While indexing the 1940 census, I
occasionally see the "M" for married "crossed out" and a "7" penciled in.
(I'm indexing the "M", by the way.)

I found out in a presentation by Joel Weintraub (partner with Steve Morse
at stevemorse.org) that this was coding done afterwards for married persons
where the spouse was living somewhere else. At their One-step website,
they have a list of these 1940 codes which were entered later in pencil.
These may help you as you index:
http://www.stevemorse.org/census/codes1940.html

Kathleen Craine
Chicago

Kathleen Craine <kacr...@aol.com>

[Kathleen Craine]

> 'Twas earlier in the thread. They don't want us to index what the
> document actually says, they want us to "correct" what we think are
> mistakes in the document.
>

> "Wes Groleau" <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>


Hmmm...I only remember in the 1940 census instructions to "correct" place
names if you know the correct spelling.

Which I did. (Census Entry: St. Francis County, Missouri. My entry,
correctly spelled: St. Francois County, Missouri).

And then I was overruled by the arbitrator, who entered what was written on
the document.

Oh well.

[Wes Groleau]

> They're telling people to misrepresent ... that's kind of harsh take on
>

> Cheryl Singhals


The instructions that I refused to follow were (1) to correct things that
I--decades of time and hundreds of miles of distance removed from the original
person--believed to be errors in place names.

and (2) to remove all punctuation

And while they didn't ASK me to put parts of a place name in the wrong place,
they highlighted the city in the image when the data field was for the county.

I call the first one major misrepresentation and the second minor
misrepresentation.

The third could result in misrepresentation were I not able to recognize the
error of their automated highlighting.

As I've said before, if you don't see the original, assume the report is
wrong. Even if it's from me.

--
Wes Groleau

“To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying
Amen to what the world tells you you should prefer,
is to have kept your soul alive.”
— Robert Louis Stevenson

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>

[L. L. Scott]

I use to use MyHeritage.com. They had a great search engine. I am a free
member, but cannot find the search engine.

I can not find anything about contacting someone for support or what I get
if I pay a fee.

Macavo.com was great, they now want dollars. I belong to Ancestry and
GenealogyBank, but don't feel I can afford to join every thing out there
:-( For me Family History is a HOBBY??? Not making any bucks off of it.


[ Shamelessly shilling for my site, try:

http://http://searches.linkpendium.com/websearch.html

Cheers, Mod. ]

"L. L. Scott" <llsco...@bellsouth.net>

[L. L. Scott]

1940 Census Indexing - Things to Watch Out For

Index the number of the household in column 3, not the house number in
column 2.
Index middle initials and middle names in the Given Names field along
with the first names. Don't enter periods after initials.
Index what you see in the name fields, even if it is a common given name
or surname that appears to have been misspelled by the enumerator, or has
an extra letter thrown in.
If nothing was recorded in the Titles or Terms column, press Tab to skip
the field. Do NOT mark it with a <blank>.
In general, enter the correct, standardized spellings for Relationship
and Place Names. Check the Lookup column (usually located via the dropdown
menu next to the particular field when using Windows or under the Edit menu
on a Mac) for the standardized lists. Using this list ensures you correctly
spell Pittsburgh with an "h" and don't get dinged for using "step-daughter"
(the preferred form is "stepdaughter").
If "Same House" or "Same Place" was recorded in or across columns 17,
18, or 19, index that phrase (or any abbreviation of it) in the City of
Residence field, and use Ctrl+B to mark the County and State fields as
blank. If the term is abbreviated, such as "S. Place," then type the
abbreviation as written. Be sure to watch for changes between "Same House"
and "Same Place" as they mean different things and are not interchangeable.
If localities were recorded in the wrong jurisdictions (such as a state
name in the 1935 City of Residence field), just index what you see.
If a line does not have a name on it, mark the entire record blank by
pressing Ctrl+Shift+B. Do NOT index the line number.
If your batch consists of either an empty/blank census form, or one with
only information in the header (i.e. no names or places enumerated on any
of the lines 1-40), then mark the entire image as <blank>, NOT as "No
Extractable Data."
Even when "Same House" or a place name was entered in columns 17, 18, or
19, for City, County, and State of Residence for children under the age of
5, mark the field as <blank>. If "Same House," etc. was entered in the
Place of Birth column, type what you see.

"L. L. Scott" <llsco...@bellsouth.net>

[Wes Groleau]

> And then I was overruled by the arbitrator, who entered what was written on
> the document.
>

> Kathleen Craine


Which I applaud. I wasn't doing the 1940 census, but my instructions were not
as specific as "if you know the correct spelling."

How many people THINK they know the correct spelling? People have indexed my
GIFFIN ancestors as GRIFFIN when there is NO legibility problem. I have
encountered people who think I don't know how to spell my own name.

DO NOT MISREPRESENT THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT.


--
Wes Groleau

What kind of smiley is C:\ ?

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>

[Wes Groleau]

On 05-07-2012 17:19, L. L. Scott wrote:

> 1940 Census Indexing - Things to Watch Out For
> Index the number of the household in column 3, not the house number in
> column 2.

Good. (I think)

> Index middle initials and middle names in the Given Names field along
> with the first names. Don't enter periods after initials.

This one is tricky. Periods should neither be added no taken away by the
indexer. But distinguishing a period from dirt or damage is like the
"hanging chad" thing.

> Index what you see in the name fields, even if it is a common given name
> or surname that appears to have been misspelled by the enumerator, or has
> an extra letter thrown in.

GOOD.

> If nothing was recorded in the Titles or Terms column, press Tab to skip
> the field. Do NOT mark it with a<blank>.

Good? Can't they make up their minds? The records I was given (not 1940
census) did not allow skipping the field, and demanded <blank> if there was
nothing in it.

> In general, enter the correct, standardized spellings for Relationship
> and Place Names. Check the Lookup column (usually located via the dropdown
> menu next to the particular field when using Windows or under the Edit menu
> on a Mac) for the standardized lists. Using this list ensures you correctly
> spell Pittsburgh with an "h" and don't get dinged for using "step-daughter"
> (the preferred form is "stepdaughter").

Relationships, yes. Places, NO, NO, NO. Unless YOU lived there at the
time the document was created and were considered a good speller!
"Pittsburgh" is the current correct spelling for the place in Pennsylvania.
"Pittsburg" is correct for a place in Kansas. "Milwaukee" is a place in
Michigan; "Milwaukie" is a place in Oregon.
I DO NOT WANT someone who knows the eastern spelling "fixing" the western
one!!!!!

> If "Same House" or "Same Place" was recorded in or across columns 17,
> 18, or 19, index that phrase (or any abbreviation of it) in the City of
> Residence field, and use Ctrl+B to mark the County and State fields as
> blank. If the term is abbreviated, such as "S. Place," then type the
> abbreviation as written. Be sure to watch for changes between "Same House"
> and "Same Place" as they mean different things and are not interchangeable.

Good.

> If localities were recorded in the wrong jurisdictions (such as a state
> name in the 1935 City of Residence field), just index what you see.

Good.

> If a line does not have a name on it, mark the entire record blank by
> pressing Ctrl+Shift+B. Do NOT index the line number.

Good

> If your batch consists of either an empty/blank census form, or one with
> only information in the header (i.e. no names or places enumerated on any
> of the lines 1-40), then mark the entire image as<blank>, NOT as "No
> Extractable Data."

Good--except now they are using the string "<blank>" and an actual blank
inconsistently in the same record set!

> Even when "Same House" or a place name was entered in columns 17, 18, or
> 19, for City, County, and State of Residence for children under the age of

> 5, mark the field as<blank>. ...

NO! Do not misrepresent the original document!!!!


> ..... If "Same House," etc. was entered in the

> Place of Birth column, type what you see.

Good

[Caley Gredig]

> > They're telling people to misrepresent ... that's kind of harsh take on
> >

> > Cheryl Singhals
>
> The instructions that I refused to follow were (1) to correct things that
> I--decades of time and hundreds of miles of distance removed from the
> original
> person--believed to be errors in place names.
>
> and (2) to remove all punctuation
>
> And while they didn't ASK me to put parts of a place name in the wrong
> place,
> they highlighted the city in the image when the data field was for the
> county.
>
> I call the first one major misrepresentation and the second minor
> misrepresentation.
>
> The third could result in misrepresentation were I not able to recognize
> the
> error of their automated highlighting.
>
> As I've said before, if you don't see the original, assume the report is
> wrong. Even if it's from me.
>

> Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>


Wes,

With regard to the highlights being in the wrong place, you can adjust
the highlights by going to the menu at the top and click on View then click on
adjust highlights. Then when you hover your mouse over the image area that is
being indexed you can resize or move the set of highlights so that they
highlight the correct field.

Most of the projects have you put the Jr. in the Title field. The
reason for not including the punctuation in the information is because it
changes the way the search algorithms utilize the data. You should always
read the instructions for each project and follow them as closely as you can.
Also, if you have questions or concerns over what is being indexed or how it
is being indexed, you can contact your support contact by email.

Caley.

Caley Gredig <crazy...@gmail.com>

[Ian Goddard]

> Most of the projects have you put the Jr. in the Title field. The
> reason for not including the punctuation in the information is because it
> changes the way the search algorithms utilize the data.
>

> Caley Gredig


If the search algorithms handle the true data badly then that's not a good
reason for changing the data, it's a good reason for changing the algorithms.


--
Ian

The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang
at austonley org uk

Ian Goddard <godd...@hotmail.co.uk>

[Wes Groleau]

On 05-16-2012 15:19, Caley Gredig wrote:

> With regard to the highlights being in the wrong place, you can adjust
> the highlights by going to the menu at the top and click on View then click on
> adjust highlights. Then when you hover your mouse over the image area that is
> being indexed you can resize or move the set of highlights so that they
> highlight the correct field.

If I know where each word belongs, I am going to put it there and the
highlights are irrelevant. If I don't know, then I will be indexing it
WRONGLY by following them.

> Most of the projects have you put the Jr. in the Title field. The
> reason for not including the punctuation in the information is because it
> changes the way the search algorithms utilize the data. You should always
> read the instructions for each project and follow them as closely as you can.

When those istructions tell me to make a FALSE REPORT of what was in the
document, I absolutely WILL NOT follow them.

Moreover, I refuse to do ANY indexing for an outfit that is _telling_
people to supply false information.


--
Wes Groleau

“Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
But I'm not so sure about the universe.”
— Albert Einstein

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>

[Kathleen Craine]

> > Index middle initials and middle names in the Given Names field along
> > with the first names. Don't enter periods after initials.
>

> This one is tricky. Periods should neither be added no taken away by the
> indexer. But distinguishing a period from dirt or damage is like the
> "hanging chad" thing.

I think the tricky part here is that we are creating an "index", not a
"transcription."

Periods don't belong in a searchable index. Either you have EVERY initial
with a period or NO initials with a period, in order to have a standardized
search process. Frankly, I'll go with no periods.

On the other hand, periods do belong in a transcription.

Kathleen

Kathleen Craine <kacr...@aol.com>

[singhals]

Kathleen Craine wrote:
>
>>> Index middle initials and middle names in the Given Names field along
>>> with the first names. Don't enter periods after initials.
>>

>> This one is tricky. Periods should neither be added no taken away by the
>> indexer. But distinguishing a period from dirt or damage is like the
>> "hanging chad" thing.
>
> I think the tricky part here is that we are creating an "index", not a
> "transcription."
>
> Periods don't belong in a searchable index. Either you have EVERY initial
> with a period or NO initials with a period, in order to have a standardized
> search process. Frankly, I'll go with no periods.

Periods also eat up disc space at an alarming rate. I worked on one index
which began including periods and we quickly discovered that R. J. Reynolds of
N. Carolina and B. J. Barry of R. I. could fill a floppy disc in half the time
R J and B J did. We then spent a year deleting the . already included.

> On the other hand, periods do belong in a transcription.

Only if they're in the doc. (g) I've seen many a census where the
birthplace was O sans .

Cheryl

singhals <sing...@erols.com>

[Wes Groleau]

> > Most of the projects have you put the Jr. in the Title field. The
> > reason for not including the punctuation in the information is because it
> > changes the way the search algorithms utilize the data.
> >
> > Caley Gredig
>
> If the search algorithms handle the true data badly then that's not a good
> reason for changing the data, it's a good reason for changing the algorithms.
>

> Ian Goddard


If you dropped your car keys over there, why are you looking over here?

Because this is where the light is.


--
Wes Groleau

“It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes.
A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.”
— Thomas Jefferson

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org>

[Joe Makowiec]

> Periods also eat up disc space at an alarming rate. I worked on one
> index which began including periods and we quickly discovered that
> R. J. Reynolds of N. Carolina and B. J. Barry of R. I. could fill a
> floppy disc in half the time R J and B J did. We then spent a year
> deleting the . already included
>

> Cheryl Singhals


What was the database management system you used to achieve this result?


--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

Joe Makowiec <mako...@invalid.invalid>

[singhals]

> > Periods also eat up disc space at an alarming rate. I worked on one
> > index which began including periods and we quickly discovered that
> > R. J. Reynolds of N. Carolina and B. J. Barry of R. I. could fill a
> > floppy disc in half the time R J and B J did. We then spent a year

> > deleting the . already included
> >
> > Cheryl Singhals
>
> What was the database management system you used to achieve this result?
>

> Joe Makowiec


I'm not sure what you're questioning?

If you're asking what it first appears you are, Data entry and QA were done in
a DOS-based genealogy program called The Family Edge. Each data-entry person
had a copy of TFE, and each QA person simply opened each batch of names in
their copy of TFE and manually removed the . A test-run was made with GED and
it was so monumentally unsuccessful on so many levels, manual was simply
easier on everyone.

If you're asking about the "half the time", I was using "time" figuratively
... one FGS might contain 100 names, each with places; when the places were
abbreviated and properly punctuated with . and most of the 100 had a middle
initial followed by a . you could get perhaps half the number of FGS on a
floppy than you could squeeze on by omitting all the .

If it wasn't one of those, The past 30 days have been more than stressful and
my brain isn't exactly running at 90%, so you'll have to get more explicit
...?

Cheryl

singhals <sing...@erols.com>