Re: Philip Fitz Roy (or Philip of Cognac), bastard son of King Richard I of E...

[Jwc...@aol.com]

Dear Newsgroup,
I have seen a couple of websites , one belonging
to M. Andre LeClerc which indicate that Philip Fitz roy was the father by
his wife Amelie de Cognac of a daughter Aumus de Cognac born vers 1195 (note
that this same site indicates that Philip Fitz roy was born in vers 1175) Aumus
de Cognac is given a husband named Loup Raymond D`Orthe born vers 1197 to
Richard Garcie D`Orthe by Tiburge de Comminges. Loup Raymond and Aumus de Cognac
were parents vers 1216 of Raymond Richard D`Orthe who married Marie de
Lusignan, daughter of Hugues X de Lusignan by Isabel de Angouleme.
this lineage may be authentic or fraudulent, but certainly
appears worth a look to determine which.
Sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA

[Douglas Richardson royalancestry@msn.com]

Dear James ~

The French document I posted yesterday is nearly contemporary to the
time of Philip Fitz Roy and his wife, Amélie de Cognac. It
specifically states that Amélie de Cognac died without issue. That
seems rather clear to me.

Following Amélie's death, her estates were regranted to the Lusignan
family. Had Amélie really had a daughter as you suggest, she almost
certainly would have been the heiress to her mother.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Website: www.royalancestry.net

[juan]

Hello,

Coming back to an old topic discussed back in 2005, has there been any news on the identity of this Aumus de Cognac?

She appears in several French genealogy websites, which may not be reliable, and which do not always mention their sources, but apparently, there was such a lady.

She is briefly mentioned in an article in


Les Landes dans l'histoire: centenaire de la Société de Borda, 1876-1975 : actes du XXVIIIe Congrès d'études régionales, tenu à Mont-de-Marsan et Dax les 24 et 25 avril 1976


which refers back to a papal document of 1246.

"Par bulle datée de Lyon le 8 novembre 1246, Innocent IV demanda à la vicomtesse régente d'Orthe, Aumus de Cognac et à Pévêque de Dax Navar de Miossens…"

Who were the next lords of Cognac after Phillipe de Falconbridge and his wife?

French websites, again, without enough citations, give Amelie two children, both vicomtes d' Orthe: First the one mentioned in previous posting, one Raymond Loup, dead by 1295, supposedly married to one Marie de Lusignan, whose parentage is not clear, but apparently childless anyway, and one Arnaud Raymound Loup, dead by 1300, married to one Amicie de Montfort, whose lineage is also not clear.

Is there any documentation on Amicie and Marie? This whole line of vicomtesses seems rather obscure, but mostly claimed to be related in some way to the Plantagenets.


Just curious,

J. Sardina

On Sunday, August 14, 2005 at 5:39:38 PM UTC-4, Douglas Richardson royala...@msn.com wrote:


> Dear James ~
>
> The French document I posted yesterday is nearly contemporary to the
> time of Philip Fitz Roy and his wife, Amélie de Cognac. It
> specifically states that Amélie de Cognac died without issue. That

> seems clear.

[Peter Stewart]

On Monday, August 20, 2018 at 2:11:42 AM UTC+10, juan wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Coming back to an old topic discussed back in 2005, has there been any news on the identity of this Aumus de Cognac?
>
> She appears in several French genealogy websites, which may not be reliable, and which do not always mention their sources, but apparently, there was such a lady.
>
> She is briefly mentioned in an article in
>
>
> Les Landes dans l'histoire: centenaire de la Société de Borda, 1876-1975 : actes du XXVIIIe Congrès d'études régionales, tenu à Mont-de-Marsan et Dax les 24 et 25 avril 1976
>
>
> which refers back to a papal document of 1246.
>
> "Par bulle datée de Lyon le 8 novembre 1246, Innocent IV demanda à la vicomtesse régente d'Orthe, Aumus de Cognac et à Pévêque de Dax Navar de Miossens…"

"Pévêque" is an error of Google Books OCR, for "l'évêque" (bishop). Potthast did not list such a bull of Innocent IV on 8 November 1246.

> Who were the next lords of Cognac after Phillipe de Falconbridge and his wife?

King John purchased Cognac in 1203, when there were at least three claimants as collateral relatives of Philippe's deceased wife Amelia (she had died childless a few years earlier). Subsequently it was granted by Henry III to the Lusignans.

> French websites, again, without enough citations, give Amelie two children, both vicomtes d' Orthe: First the one mentioned in previous posting, one Raymond Loup, dead by 1295, supposedly married to one Marie de Lusignan, whose parentage is not clear, but apparently childless anyway, and one Arnaud Raymound Loup, dead by 1300, married to one Amicie de Montfort, whose lineage is also not clear.
>
> Is there any documentation on Amicie and Marie? This whole line of vicomtesses seems rather obscure, but mostly claimed to be related in some way to the Plantagenets.

It's a useful step to try a Google search on anyone elusive in this way - if all the results are genealogy websites, the safest next step is to quarantine that personage from any line you want to trace, or else eliminate him or her from your database entirely. It is easier to re-enter someone later if you find more reliable information than to readjust whole ancestries that have included a ring-in or fictitious individual.

Peter Stewart