Richard of Bedford, Bastard of Bedford, illegitimate grandson of King Henry IV of England
Douglas Richardson
yesterday. Among other things, I've added a new reference to Richard
of Bedford's alleged wife, the niece of Sir Philip Thornbury - DR].
Dear Newsgroup ~
King Henry IV of England had but two legitimate grandchildren, King
Henry VI of England, and Ruprecht (son of Ludwig, Count Palatine of
the Rhine) and five known illegitimate grandchildren. Of the five
illegitimate grandchildren, one of them was Richard of Bedford,
otherwise known as "the Bastard of Bedford." Scant attention has been
paid to Richard of Bedford in the history books. An example of this
inattention is the biography of Richard's father, John, Duke of
Bedford, found in John Burke, A general and heraldic dictionary of the
peerages of England, Ireland, and Scotland (1831): 430-431. No
mention whatsoever is made of Richard of Bedford in this account.
This item may be viewed at this weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=aB0IAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA430&dq=Richard+the+bastard+of+Bedford&lr=
Richard of Bedford was an illegitimate son of John of Lancaster, K.B.,
K.G., Duke of Bedford, Regent of France, Admiral of England, the third
surviving son of King Henry IV of England. The identity of his mother
is not known. Research indicates that Richard of Bedford was
legitimated by his cousin, King Henry VI of England, 30 August 1434,
which act was recorded at the tabellionage in Rouen, France 27
September 1435 [Reference: Beaurepaire, Fondations Pieuses du Duc de
Bedford à Rouen (Bibliothèque de l'Ecole des Chartes 34) (1873): 6,
12, 30].
"Richard the bastard of Bedford" was a legatee in the 1435 will of his
father, John, Duke iof Bedford, who bequeathed him the castle and
lordship of Haye-du-Puits (Manche), France [Reference: Nicolas,
Testamenta Vetusta 1 (1826): 241-243 (will of John, Duke of
Bedford)]. This item may be viewed at the following weblink:
In 1436, as "Richard Bedford, bastard of Bedford," he was made
honorary member of the Guild of Merchant Taylors of London [Reference:
Memorials of the Guild of Merchant Taylors of the Fraternity of St.
John the Baptist in the City of London (1875): 619]. See the
following weblink for that record:
http://books.google.com/books?id=uspNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA619&dq=Richard+the+bastard+of+Bedford
The last definite record I have of Richard Bastard of Bedford is dated
5 November 1440-1, when he was granted letters of attorney, he then
going abroad [Reference: Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper, 48
(1887): 340]. This record may be viewed at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=dAQrAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA340&dq=%22Bastard+of+Bedford%22
He may possibly be the "Ric' Bastard of Bedford." who witnessed the
1453 will of John Fisher, of Fulham, Bedfordshire [Reference: Pubs.
Bedfordshire Hist. Rec. Soc. 14 (1931): 126-127 (abstract of will of
John Fisher).]. A snippet view of this item may be viewed at the
following weblink:
Finally, the book, The Armburgh Papers, by the noted historian,
Christine Carpenter, apparently identifies the wife of Richard of
Bedford, Bastard of Bedford, as the niece of Sir Philip Thornbury,
Knt. [Reference: Carpenter, The Armburgh Papers: The Brokholes
Inheritance in Warwickshire, Hertfordshire, and Essex, c.1417-c.1453 :
Chetham's Manuscript Mun. E.6.10 (4) (1998): 30-31, 36, 173-178,
183-184]. See the following weblink for page 36 of that source:
When I have time tomorrow, I'll try to examine this book to see
specifically what it says regarding the history of Richard of Bedford
and his alleged marriage.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Douglas Richardson
< Finally, the book, The Armburgh Papers, by the noted historian,
< Christine Carpenter, apparently identifies the wife of Richard of
< Bedford, Bastard of Bedford, as the niece of Sir Philip Thornbury,
< Knt. [Reference: Carpenter, The Armburgh Papers: The Brokholes
< Inheritance in Warwickshire, Hertfordshire, and Essex, c.1417-c.
1453 :
< Chetham's Manuscript Mun. E.6.10 (4) (1998): 30-31, 36, 173-178,
< 183-184]. See the following weblink for page 36 of that source:
<
< http://books.google.com/books?id=J7jsRZISRpwC&pg=PA36&dq=%22Richard+B...
<
< Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
In my post just now, I inadvertedly gave the wrong weblink to the
citation to The Armburgh Papers by Christine Carptenter. The correct
weblink is:
mj...@btinternet.com
> [Note: This post is revised and expanded from a similar one I posted
> yesterday. Among other things, I've added a new reference to Richard
> of Bedford's alleged wife, the niece of Sir Philip Thornbury - DR].
>
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> King Henry IV of England had but two legitimate grandchildren, King
> Henry VI of England, and Ruprecht (son of Ludwig, Count Palatine of
> the Rhine) and five known illegitimate grandchildren. Of the five
> illegitimate grandchildren, one of them was Richard of Bedford,
> otherwise known as "the Bastard of Bedford." Scant attention has been
> paid to Richard of Bedford in the history books. An example of this
> inattention is the biography of Richard's father, John, Duke of
> Bedford, found in John Burke, A general and heraldic dictionary of the
> peerages of England, Ireland, and Scotland (1831): 430-431. No
> mention whatsoever is made of Richard of Bedford in this account.
Why should it have been? A Peerage directory records the passage of a
peerage. Illegitimate descendants of a peer are ipso facto outwith
its scope.
MA-R
mj...@btinternet.com
> Richard of Bedford was an illegitimate son of John of Lancaster, K.B.,
> K.G., Duke of Bedford, Regent of France, Admiral of England, the third
> surviving son of King Henry IV of England. The identity of his mother
> is not known. Research indicates that Richard of Bedford was
> legitimated by his cousin, King Henry VI of England, 30 August 1434,
> which act was recorded at the tabellionage in Rouen, France 27
> September 1435
If Richard of Bedford was legitimated, could you explain why he did
not inherit his father's peerages?
MA-R
mj...@btinternet.com
> He may possibly be the "Ric' Bastard of Bedford." who witnessed the
> 1453 will of John Fisher, of Fulham, Bedfordshire
No, Fulham is in Middlesex, not Bedfordshire; John Fisher is buried
there [Weever].
MA-R
mj...@btinternet.com
> He may possibly be the "Ric' Bastard of Bedford." who witnessed the
> 1453 will of John Fisher, of Fulham, Bedfordshire [Reference: Pubs.
> Bedfordshire Hist. Rec. Soc. 14 (1931): 126-127 (abstract of will of
> John Fisher).]
This actually seems likely. The testator was treasurer to Cardinal
Kemp, Archbishop of Canterbury, and some of the others named in the
will were clearly connected to the Court (eg "my Lord of Exeter").
Furthermore, "Richard Bastard of Bedford" is the only person
identified in the will by means of a toponym, which suggests he was
not "Richard Bastard *from* Bedford" [Bastard is sometimes found as a
surname].
It is also important to note that the will is actually dated and
witnessed "Sunday 27 August 30 Henry VI" - ie 27 August *1452*.
This means that, assuming the witness was the son of the Duke of
Bedford, we can postulate an extended terminus ad quem for his
lifespan to 1452, not 1453.
MA-R
mj...@btinternet.com
> The last definite record I have of Richard Bastard of Bedford is dated
> 5 November 1440-1, when he was granted letters of attorney, he then
> going abroad [Reference: Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper, 48
> (1887): 340].
Dear Douglas
I know you often struggle with dates, but I am curious to know what
kind of date is "5 November 1440-1"?
(In fact, if one looks at p 340 of the 1887 Annual Report referred to,
the top of the page is labeled '1440-1'. This, of course, is not a
date per se, but a reference in Anno Domini to the regnal year from
which the record has been extracted, ie 19 Henry VI. This year ran
from 1 September 1440 to 31 August 1441. Thus, 5 November during this
regnal year was 5 November 1440.)
I am getting quite weary of correcting the mistakes just in this
single post!
Kind regards, Michael
Douglas Richardson
I had the opportunity today to check the comments about Richard
Bastard of Bedford which are found in the book, The Armburgh Papers,
prepared by the noted historian, Christine Carpenter. As I noted in
my earlier post, on page 36, Carpernter implies Richard Bastard of
Bedford [grandson of King Henry IV] may have married a "niece" of Sir
Philip Thornbury. See the weblink for this reference:
Actually, Carpenter has made an error here. My research indicates
that Sir Philip Thornbury's granddaughter (not niece), Elizabeth
Appleyard, married a certain William Bastard. This Elizabeth
Appleyard is the "niece" [i.e., granddaughter} of Sir Philip Thornbury
who was married to a Bastard. To my knowledge, William Bastard has no
connection whatsoever with Richard Bastard of Bedford.
For reference to Sir Philip Thornbury's granddaughter, Elizabeth
(Appleyard) Bastard, see VCH Hertford, 3 (1912): 129-135. This
reference can be viewed at the following weblink:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43591&strquery=%22Nicholas%20Appleyard%22
For a deed reference to Elizabeth Appleyard, widow of William Bastard,
in which deed she specifically names her parents, Nicholas and
Margaret Appleyard, please see Deed A. 5236 in Descrptive Catalogue of
Ancient Deeds, 3 (1900): 150-162, which may be viewed at the following
weblink:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64331&strquery=%22A.%205236%22
Laying this error aside, Carpenter does provide some helpful new
information regarding the marriage of Richard Bastard of Bedford on
page 176, footnote 415. There she says Richard Bastard of Bedford
married Isabel, "probably widow of Nicholas Rickhill." At this point,
Carpenter admits "it has not been possible to identify her (that is,
Isabel) as a niece of Thornbury." Regardless, she adds that Richard
and his wife "seem to have had lands in the right sort of places
(Essex and Bedfordshire) and connections with some of the right people
(Buckingham, Bourchier, Holland, Grey of Ruthin)."
Carpenter cites the following sources for Richard Bastard of Bedford:
Cal. Close Rolls, 1429-1435, pp. 187, 359.
London Plea & Memoranda Rolls, 1413-1437, pg. 196.
London Plea & Memoranda Rolls, 1437-1457, pp. 24, 25.
I haven't had the opportunity to check out these references yet. But
assuming Carpenter has her facts correctly stated, these records
should establish that Richard Bastard of Bedford had a wife named
Isabel, who was "probably" the widow of Nicholas Rickhill. If so, in
short order, we should have a new granddaughter-in-law identified for
King Henry IV of England. Carpenter seems not to have been aware of
the identity of Richard Bastard of Bedford, which is certainly no
surprise, as Richard of Bedford has certainly been given short shrift
by historians as I have already mentioned.
Regarding Nicholas Rickhill, I assume this is the person of that name
who held Hatfield Peverel, Essex in 1428 (see Feudal Aids 2 (1900):
214). He occurs in contemporary records as both Esquire and
Gentleman. Inasmuch as Nicholas Rickhill was living in 1428, I assume
the reference in the London Plea & Memoranda Rolls, 1413-1437, cited
by Carpenter may refer to him. This Nicholas Rickhill appears to
have been a younger son of Sir William Rickhill, Knt. (died 1407), a
well known justice in this time period. A biography of Sir William
Rickhill is found in the new ODNB, which source I haven't yet
examined. An older biography of Sir William Rickhill the judge,
hiowever, may be found in Foss, The Judges of England, 4 (1851):
174-176, which source may be viewed at the following weblink:
Douglas Richardson
Since my previous post, I've done additional research regarding the
history of Richard of Bedford, Esq., usually styled Richard Bastard of
Bedford, the hitherto overlooked illegitimate grandson of King Henry
IV of England. In the process, I've been able to confirm that Richard
Bastard of Bedford was married after 1433/34 and before 1437 (date of
fine) to Isabel, widow successively of John Boys (living 1409) and
Nicholas Rickhill, Esq. (died c. 1434). This Isabel was evidently the
daughter (or granddaughter) and heiress of Margaret de Halughton, wife
successively of Sir Roger de Northwood (living 1362), John Barry (died
by 1386), and Walter Grey, which Margaret in turn was the daughter and
co-heiress of Nicholas de Halughton, Knt. (died 1338), of Bishop's
Ockendon (in Cranham),Chaldwell, and Little Braxted, Essex, by his
wife, Margaret.
In 1430, while still married to her second husband, Nicholas Rickhill,
Isabel was found to be heiress to her cousin, Humphrey Halughton, of
Staffordshire, by which she inherited the manors of Haughton, High
Offley, and Doxey, Staffordshire [see Extracts from the Plea Rolls in
Colls. Hist. Staffs. 17 (1896): 80, 83, 94, 101, 102]. In her legal
action regarding these manors, Isabel styled herself "kinswoman and
heir of Thomas de Halughton." Unfortunately, she did not set out her
exact descent from Thomas de Halughton. Her claim as heir of Thomas
de Halughton was clearly stated, however. She claimed the manors by
virtue of an entail made in 14 Edward III [1340-1341] by Thomas de
Halughton, on which he settled the manors of Haughton and High Offley,
Staffordshire on himself and his wife, Margaret, with successive
remainders to their six sons, Robert, Thomas, John, William, Amaury,
and Humphrey, and, failing such, to the right heirs of Thomas. Isabel
presumably claimed the manors as the nearest right heir of Thomas de
Halughton, rather than blood descendant of Thomas, as other evidence
shows that Isabel was elsewhere heiress of another male of the
Halughton family, namely Sir Nicholas de Halughton (died 1338), of
Essex, which Nicholas appears to have been Isabel's direct ancestor.
I've copied below my current account of Richard Bastard of Bedford,
Esq., and his wife, Isabel. All of my sources are cited.
In closing, I wish to thank Jennifer Stibitz, of Madison, Wisconsin
for her assistance.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + + +
Account of Richard of Bedford, Bastard of Bedford, the illegitimate
son of John of Lancaster, K.B., K.G., Duke of Bedford, Regent of
France, by an unknown mistress:
RICHARD OF BEDFORD, Esq., usually styled "Richard Bastard of Bedford,"
in right of his wife, of Chaldwell, Essex, and London. He married
after 8 May 1437 and before 19 Dec. 1439 ISABEL _____, widow
successively of John Boys, Esq., of Chaldwell, Essex (living 1409) and
Nicholas Rickhill (or Rykhill, Rykhull), Esq. (living 1430, died
before July 1432), of Ulting, Bishop's Ockendon (in Cranham), and
Chaldwell, Essex, and Cheveley, Cambridgeshire, Sheriff of Essex, and
evidently daughter (or granddaughter) of Margaret de Halughton, wife
successively of Roger de Northwood, Knt. (living 1362), John Barry
(died by 1386), of Chaldwell and Little Braxted, Essex, and Walter
Grey, which Margaret was the daughter and co-heiress of Nicholas de
Halughton, Knt., of Bishop's Ockendon (in Cranham),Chaldwell, and
Little Braxted, Essex. In 1420 Isabel was heiress to her cousin,
Humphrey Halughton, by which she was heiress to the manors of
Haughton, High Offley, and Doxey, Staffordshire. Richard was
legitimated by his cousin, King Henry VI of England, 30 August 1434,
which act was recorded at the tabellionage in Rouen, France 27 Sept.
1435. Richard was a legatee in the 1435 will of his father, who
bequeathed him the castle and lordship of Haye-du-Puits (Manche),
France for his life. In 1436, as "Richard Bedford, bastard of
Bedford," he was made honorary member of the Guild of Merchant Taylors
of London. In 1437 he and his wife, Isabel, sold the manor and
advowson of the church of Chaldwell, Essex to John Wilton for 300
marks. In Dec. 1439 he and his wife, Isabel, granted a tenement in
Queenhithe Ward in the parish of St. Mary Magdalen, London to William
Fitz Walter, of Oxford, John Bartlot, netter, and others. As "Rich.
Bastard of Bedford," he had letters of attorney granted to him 5 Nov.
1440, he then going abroad. His wife, Isabel, allegedly died in
1443. As "Ric' Bastard of Bedford," he witnessed the 1453 will of
John Fisher, of Fulham, Middlesex. The subsequent history of RICHARD
OF BEDFORD is unknown.
References:
Morant, Hist. & Antiqs. of Essex 1 (1768): 230; 2 (1768): 143-144.
Nichols, Coll. of All the Wills (1780): 270-277. Nicolas, Testamenta
Vetusta 1 (1826): 241-243 (will of John, Duke of Bedford). Arch.
Cantiana 2 (1859): 9-42; 32 (1917): 55-70 (re. Rickhill family).
Archæologia 38 (1860): 135-148. Beaurepaire, Fondations Pieuses du
Duc de Bedford à Rouen (Bibliothèque de l'Ecole des Chartes 34)
(1873): 6, 12, 30. Memorials of the Guild of Merchant Taylors of the
Fraternity of St. John the Baptist in the City of London (1875): 619.
Procs. Soc. of Antiquaries of London 2nd ser. 8 (1879): 103-104.
Annual Report of the Deputy Keeper 48 (1887): 340. Colls. Hist.
Staffs. 11 (1890): 228-238; 17 (1896): 80, 83, 94, 101, 102. Lewis,
Pedes Finium; or, Fines rel. to the County of Surrey (Surrey Arch.
Soc. Extra Volume 1) (1894): 226. Feudal Aids 2 (1900): 214. Feet of
Fines for Essex 3 (1929-1949): 151; 4 (1964): 5, 11-12, 24. Pubs.
Bedfordshire Hist. Rec. Soc. 14 (1931): 126-127 (abstract of will of
John Fisher). C.C.R. 1429-1435 (1933): 187, 359. C.C.R. 1435-1441
(1937): 252-254. Thomas, Cal. of Plea & Memoranda Rolls of London
1413-1437 (1946): 196. Jones, Cal. of Plea & Memoranda Rolls of
London 1437-1457 (1954): 24, 25. VCH Essex 7 (1978): 103-109. Ross,
Patronage, Pedigree and Power in Later Medieval England (1979): 16-17,
32. Roskell, House of Commons 1386-1421 3 (1992): 322-323 (biog. of
Humphrey Halughton); 4 (1992): 210-211 (biog. of William Rickhill).
Carpenter, The Armburgh Papers: The Brokholes Inheritance in
Warwickshire, Hertfordshire, and Essex, c.1417-c.1453 (1998): 30-31,
36, 176 footnote 415. VCH Cambridge 10 (2002): 46-47.
Douglas Richardson
In my post earlier today, I stated that "Richard Bedford, bastard of
Bedford" was made honorary member of the Guild of Merchant Taylors of
London in 1436. I double checked my source and found that the
correct date is 1436-1437. Also, since posting the earlier message,
I've further revised the date of Richard of Bedford's marriage to
Isabel, widow of John Boys and Nicholas Rickhill, Esq., as being
"after 1433/34 and before 1437 (date of fine)."
I assume Richard of Bedford was made a member of the guild in right of
his wife, Isabel's lands in London and Essex.
mj...@btinternet.com
> As "Ric' Bastard of Bedford," he witnessed the 1453 will of
> John Fisher, of Fulham, Middlesex.
As has been shown previously, the will dates from 1452, not 1453.
MA-R
mj...@btinternet.com
> Esq., and his wife, Isabel. All of my sources are cited.
Maybe, but as usual you've jumbled them together en bloc so that no
single assertion you have made is actually referenced. This greatly
reduces their usefulness. Either one checks every reference from the
jumble [not particularly feasible] or takes the material on trust -
which would not be wise, given the number of mistakes that you
normally seem to make.
This is a shame, because if the material were properly cross-
referenced, it might actually represent a worthwhile contribution.
MA-R
mj...@btinternet.com
Dear Douglas
Why would you assume this?
Kind regards, Michael
Peter Stewart
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:535c278e-95eb-43d9...@s37g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
> John of Lancaster, K.B., K.G., Duke of Bedford, Regent of
> France
Did I miss Richardson declaring that K.B. takes precedence over K.G., or is
he applying a personal "rule of thumb" on this matter?
Peter Stewart
mj...@btinternet.com
It seems this version of Isabel's pedigree is not universally agreed
upon.
We see from VCH Essex vol 7 sub Cranham that Sir Nicholas de Halughton
died in 1338, leaving two infant daughters Margaret and Joan, and a
widow Margery. VCH states Margery the widow remarried to Roger de
Northwode, and died in 1340 (citing CP). Elsewhere she is called
"Margaret the widow of Nicholas de Halughton" (Staffordshire Plea
Rolls, Michaelmas 14 Edward III, Staff. Hist. Coll. vol 11).
Who married Lord Northwode: Margery/Margaret the widow or Margaret the
daughter?
VCH (op cit) also says that Lord Northwode had Sir Nicholas's minor
heir in ward in 1346, but by 1363 the manor of Bishop's Ockenden was
held by Sir Ralph St Leger and Beatrice his wife, who by 1400 was
remarried to Sir John Curzon. It states that she died in 1421, and in
1425 Nicholas Rykhill and Isabel his wife quitclaimed to Lewis John.
MA-R
mj...@btinternet.com
Perhaps we are dealing with two Roger de Northwodes, father and son.
MAR
Douglas Richardson
As a followup to my earlier message, I thought it would be good to
post a transcript of the two documents which identify Isabel, wife of
Richard of Bedford, Bastard of Bedford, as Isabel Rickhill, widow, of
Essex. My research elsewhere has determined that Isabel's second
husband, Nicholas Rickhill, Esq., of Ulting, Essex, was living in
1430, but dead before July 1432 [see, for example, Roskell, House of
Commons 1386-1421, 4 (1992): 210-211 (biog. of William Rickhill)].
Isabel was still called Isabel Rickhill as late as 1433-1434 [see
document below] but had married Richard of Bedford before 1437 (date
of an fine).
The historian Christine Carpenter's suggestion that Isabel, wife of
Richard of Bedford, might have been the niece of Sir Philip Thornbury
is utterly groundless {see Carpenter, The Armburgh Papers: The
Brokholes Inheritance in Warwickshire, Hertfordshire, and Essex, c.
1417-c.1453 (1998): 30-31, 36, 176 footnote 415]. As I stated in my
earlier post, Isabel appears to have been the daughter (or
granddaughter) of Margaret de Halughton, wife successively of Roger de
Northwood [the younger], Knt. (living 1362), John Barry (died by
1386), of Chaldwell and Little Braxted, Essex, and Walter Grey, which
Margaret was the daughter and co-heiress of Nicholas de Halughton,
Knt., of Bishop's Ockendon (in Cranham),Chaldwell, and Little Braxted,
Essex. While Isabel's exact parentage remains murky, she was
defintely heiress in 1420 to her cousin, Humphrey Halughton, by which
she inherited the manors of Haughton, High Offley, and Doxey,
Staffordshire.
Lastly, I should point out that Richard of Bedford's wife, Isabel, is
a totally new addition to the Plantagenet family tree. Enjoy!
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + +
Source: Jones, Calendar of Plea & Memoranda Rolls of London 1437-
1457 (1954): 24,25.
pg. 24: "19 Dec. 1439. Grant by Richard Bastard of Bedford and
Isabel his wife to William Fitz Water of co. Oxon, John Bartlot,
netter, Nicholas Wyfold, grocer, William Hethe, fishmonger, William
Shirburne and John Vache of a tenement with appurtenances in
Queenhithe Ward in the parish of St. Mary Magdalen on Lambardeshull by
Oldefisshstrete, lying between the tenement of the bishop of Hereford
on the east and south, the tenement formerly of John Trype on the
north and the king's highway on the south. [Cancelled]." END OF
QUOTE.
pg. 25: "19 Dec. 1439. Further enrolment of the grant by Richard
Bastard of Bedford, esquire, and Isabel his wife of a tenement in
Queenhithe Ward [see above, p. 24]. The deed sets forth that the said
Isabel, by the name of Isabel Rykhyll, widow, of co. Essex, together
with Thomas Remy, goldsmith, and John Whetele, saddler, had the
tenement by the demise and feoffment of John Broke, brewer, and John
[?] Bracy, chandler, in the twelfth year of King Henry VI [1433-1434],
and that the said Thomas and John quitclaimed to her their interest in
the tenement by a deed of 8 May 1437. The grant was dated 3 Oct. 1439
and witnessed by Thomas Bernewell, Richard Quartermayns, John Wellys,
John Sygar, Roger Derlyngton, John Leget, John Ingram, William Mayhew
and others, and John Hatherle, then alderman of the ward." END OF
QUOTE.
Douglas Richardson
Below is an abstract of a feet of fines from Essex which concerns
Richard Bastard of Bedford and his wife, Isabel. The fine is dated
Easter term 1437, which is the earliest date I have evidence this
couple were married. Thomas Remy and John Whetele who occur in this
fine are likewise mentioned in the enrollment of the London deed I
posted earlier for Richard and Isabel dated 1439.
The fine below is the sale of Isabel's own manor of Chaldwell, Essex,
which property descended to her from Sir Nicholas Halughton, Knt.
(died 1338).
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: Feet of Fines for Essex, 4 (1964): 24.
Date: 15 Henry VI.
County of Essex.
Year: 1437.
167. Easter. John Wilton, Thomas Thornton, citizen and draper of
London, and Alexander Tacle, pl. Richard Bastard of Bedford and
Isabel his wife, Thomas Remy, citizen and goldsmith of London, John
Whetele, citizen and saddler of London, and Richard Caus, def. The
manor of Chaldewell and the advowson of the church of the manor. Def.
quitclaimed to pl. and the heirs of John. Consideration 300 marks.
END OF QUOTE.
Douglas Richardson
I came across the following "snippet" item in a recent Google Book
Search. The snippet item refers to a statement made in one of the
volumes of the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts to the
effect that Nicholas de Halughton had two daughters, Beatrix who died
without issue, and Margaret the mother of Isabel. I have no doubt
that the Isabel here mentioned is the same person as the Isabel who
married successively John Boys, Esq., Nicholas Tickhill, Esq., and
Richard of Bedford, Bastard of Bedford, Esq. (grandson of King Henry
IV). I suspect for chronological reasons, however, that Isabel was
more likely Margaret's granddaughter, rather than daughter.
Source: Google Books
Report of the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts
Page 54
Nicholas de Halughton had issue two daughters, Beatrix who died
without issue, and Margaret the mother of Isabel ...
The actual snippet may be viewed at the following weblink:
http://books.google.com/books?um=1&ct=property-revision&q=Report+Halughton+Isabel&btnG=Search+Books
If anyone recognizes the volume number in which this material was
published, I'd appreciate it if they would post the volume number,
and, if possible the full text. Thanks!
wjhonson
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> I came across the following "snippet" item in a recent Google Book
> Search. The snippet item refers to a statement made in one of the
> volumes of the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts to the
> effect that Nicholas de Halughton had two daughters, Beatrix who died
> without issue, and Margaret the mother of Isabel. I have no doubt
> that the Isabel here mentioned is the same person as the Isabel who
> IV). I suspect for chronological reasons, however, that Isabel was
> more likely Margaret's granddaughter, rather than daughter.
>
> Source: Google Books
> Report of the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts
> Page 54
> Nicholas de Halughton had issue two daughters, Beatrix who died
> without issue, and Margaret the mother of Isabel ...
>
For the evidence that the names of Nicholas' two co-heiresses were
Joan and Margaret
note that Nicholas has an IPM referenced here
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42823#n39
stating this and citing "Cal. Inq. p.m. viii, p. 153."
Just in case anyone lives near the largest genealogical library in the
world or anything :)
Will Johnson
Douglas Richardson
Sir Nicholas de Halughton's two heiresses were named Beatrice and
Margaret, just as I stated. Will needs to dig deeper into
contemporary sources.
Peter Stewart
As a reader of this newsgroup, Will has been advised by yourself to ignore
posts without sources or weblinks - and, of course, he provided both for his
version of the names.
What part of "double standard" do you fail to comprehend? "Standard", I
think we can assume, since you are so highly practiced in duplicity.
Peter Stewart
david11...@yahoo.fr
And your source for the daughters being named Beatrice and Margaret
was Report of the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts
Page 54 . How "contemporary" is this?
Yet another example of your "Do as I say, not as I do" philosophy.
David
Douglas Richardson
< And your source for the daughters being named Beatrice and Margaret
< was Report of the Royal Commission on Historical Manuscripts
< Page 54 . How "contemporary" is this?
<
< Yet another example of your "Do as I say, not as I do" philosophy.
<
< David
Well, David, why don't you help Will? You're obviously a lot smarter
than the rest of us. And you'd be able to show off how much expertise
you have by confirming that I'm right. I say, go for it!
david11...@yahoo.fr
It's simple, something that even a trained historian should be able to
understand. YOU made the claim. YOU prove it, ie provide contemporary
sources. It's not up to me or Will or anyone else to disprove
unsourced statements
David
Douglas Richardson
<
< It's simple, something that even a trained historian should be able
to
< understand. YOU made the claim. YOU prove it, ie provide
contemporary
< sources. It's not up to me or Will or anyone else to disprove
< unsourced statements
<
< David
David ~
There is no need to attack me personally. If you've been learned
anything from my posts, you should be able to quickly find the
evidence that you're seeking for yourself. I say go for it!
Suffice to say, I've correctly stated that the heirs of Nicholas de
Halughton were his daughters, Beatrice and Margaret.
pierre...@hotmail.fr
> On Apr 1, 1:38 pm, david11000ca...@yahoo.fr wrote:
> <
> < It's simple, something that even a trained historian should be able
> to
> < understand. YOU made the claim. YOU prove it, ie provide
> contemporary
> < sources. It's not up to me or Will or anyone else to disprove
> < unsourced statements
> <
> < David
>
> David ~
>
> There is no need to attack me personally.
Nobody has attacked you personally: it is your lack of critical method
and of historical culture, your amateurism and your use of a double
standard which have been exposed. Once again. Nothing personal in
that.
Pierre
Douglas Richardson
<pierre_aro...@hotmail.fr> wrote:
< Nobody has attacked you personally: it is your lack of critical
method
< and of historical culture, your amateurism and your use of a double
< standard which have been exposed. Once again. Nothing personal in
< that.
<
< Pierre
Sorry, no soap, bud. My credentials are not in question.
In any case, I'm right. Will is wrong. Like you didn't know that
already.
wjhonson
> Sorry, no soap, bud. My credentials are not in question.
>
> In any case, I'm right. Will is wrong. Like you didn't know that
> already.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
---------------------------
I however have not stated my evidence as iron-clad fact :)
I presented the evidence, it says what it says, it cites its primary
reference. I did not create it. This isn't a game of you versus me
Dougie dearest.
You, on the other hand, presented a snippet view, from which, we can
tell neither the content, nor the source cited, if any.
I will leave it to the readers to decide which initial position, and
which follow-up on it, is closer to the way historians and "trained
genealogists" actually operate. Credible ones at any rate.
Will Johnson
Peter Stewart
> On Apr 2, 2:34 pm, "pierre_aro...@hotmail.com"
>
> <pierre_aro...@hotmail.fr> wrote:
>
> < Nobody has attacked you personally: it is your lack of critical
> < method and of historical culture, your amateurism and your use of
> < a double standard which have been exposed. Once again. Nothing
> < personal in that.
> <
> < Pierre
>
> Sorry, no soap, bud. My credentials are not in question.
Another strawman - Pierre's remarks went to your credibility, not your
"credentials".
I assume you mean by this your academic qualifications and imagined
professional standing; but these (where real) are personal
attainments, not your own self. What you have done and go on doing to
trash these is made plain every day for all to see, as once again in
your snide and stupid reply to Pierre.
Getting a degree or two has patently not made you expert in critical
method - your research is at best haphazard and most usually a matter
of cadging from others or else coaxing and goading SGM contributors
into doing your research work for you. Even when a sensible method is
set out for you it is not followed by your own efforts.
So yes, thanks to your superiority complex manifesting its ugliness
yet again, your credentials are under question now, by me. Such as
these ever were, you have largely spoiled them by habits of deceit and
incompetence, and they are next-to worthless.
Peter Stewart
Douglas Richardson
As a followup to my earlier posts, I thought I'd copy a transcript of
two records from the plea rolls which involve Isabel, wife of Richard
of Bedford, Esq., the newly discovered granddaughter-in-law of King
Henry IV of England. The record below is dated Trinity term, 9 Henry
V [1421]. The plaintiffs in the two lawsuits are Nicholas Rikhill and
Isabel his wife, which Isabel was later married to Richard of
Bedford. In the first lawsuit, Isabel is specifically styled
"kinswoman and heir of Thomas de Halughton." Isabel Rikhill was
already at this date the heiress of Sir Nicholas de Halughton, Knt.,
of Essex, which Sir Nicholas de Halughton was a contemporary to the
said Thomas de Halughton. Although Isabel Rikhill never set forth her
exact kinship to Thomas de Halughton, I assume Isabel sued for the
manors in question as the right heir of Thomas de Halughton, rather
than as a blood descendant. Isabel was subsequently successful in
both lawsuits and the manors were duly awarded to her and her then
husband, Nicholas Rikhill.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
+ + + + + + + + + + + +
Source: Collections for a History of Staffordshire, Vol. XVII (1896),
pg. 80.
Extracts from the Plea Rolls.
Date: Trinity term, 9 Henry V. [A.D. 1421].
"Staffordshire. Nicholas Rikhill and Isabella, his wife, the
kinswoman and heir of Thomas de Halughton, sued Isabella, late wife of
Humfrey de Halughton, for execution of a Fine levied in 14 Edward III
[1340-1341] between Thomas de Halughton, knight, and Margaret, his
wife, complainants, and Robert de Swynnerton and Walter Giffard,
chaplain, deforciants of the manor of Halughton (Haughton), by which
the manor was settled on Thomas and Margaret for their lives, with
remainder to Robert, son of Thomas, and heirs male of his body, and
failing such, Thomas, brother of Robert, and heirs male of his body,
and failing such, to John, brother of Thomas, and heirs male of his
body, and failing such, to William, brother of John, and heirs male of
his body, and failing such, to Almaric, brother of William, and heirs
male of his body, and failing such, to Humfrey, brother of Almaric,
and heirs male of his body, and failing such, to the right heirs of
Thomas de Halughton, knight, for ever. The Sheriff was ordered to
summon the said Isabella, late wife of Humfrey, for three weeks from
St. Michael. A postscript shows the Sheriff had made no return to the
writ up to the following Easter term."
"Staffordshire. The same plaintiffs sued for execution of a Fine
levied in 14 Edward III [1340-1341] by the same Thomas de Halughton
and Margaret, his wife, by which the manor of Heghe Offeleye (High
Offley) was settled in the same way, Isabella, late wife of Humfrey de
Halughton, having taken possession of a part of the manor. The
Sheriff was ordered to summon the said Isabella for three weeks from
Easter." END OF QUOTE.