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Lord John Wenlock
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adrian.fray
Feb 2, 2017, 11:53:39 AM2/2/17
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Sorry this is a long entry, but my last one was 20 years ago using a different server and a pseudo-name.
I have been researching lord John Wenlock for 25 years and have uncovered several controversial items. These have been written up in the form of a detective story or discussion document entitled "The Mystery of Lord Wenlock and His Glastonbury Treasure" (Austen Macauley 2016). I suggest that the famous "Wenlock Jug" etc., (see on NET), that the Cosmopolitan Museum of New York wanted to buy for £750,000 as an example of late 14C English bronze casting, is probably 15C Burgundian workmanship!
I also suggest that Prof. Roskell's biography of Lord Wenlock, and his History of Parliament Vol.1, contain errors. Lord Wenlock is attributed as being the younger brother of Sir Thomas Wenlock, and son of William Wyvell (alias Wenlock) nephew of dean William Wenlock. This William Wyvell (alias Wenlock) was executor of dean William Wenlock's will dated 1391/2. I note that, at the end of his will, the Dean leaves 15marks to John, the son of William Wyvell, and 20marks to the other son (Thomas?). If John had only just been born he would have been at least 79 years old in 1471, at the Battle of Tewkesbury, and if he was a young teenager he would have been in his early nineties in 1471. I did wonder whether John might have died as an infant and that William Wynell's wife (in her forties) had another son whom they named John. However, Prof. Roskell also assumes that lord John Wenlock is the Sir John Wenlock who became Captain of Vernon in 1421. I have recently obtained a copy of the Muster Roll for the preceding decade when Sir William Porter kt., was Captain of Vernon, and I find that a John Wenlock is forth on the list. This John is unlikely to have been a teenager, and I suppose that he would have been between his mid-twenties and his mid-forties. If that were the case, he would be in his late seventies or early nineties in 1471, in agreement with the Dean's will.
ALL of the early diplomatic commissions for the future Lord Wenlock refer to him as Squire John Wenlock, or John Wenlock, esquire. This seems unlikely if he had been Captain of Vernon. Furthermore, there is a Sir John Wenlock, kt., who is occasionally in England at the same time as the diplomatic missions of a Squire John (lord) Wenlock. My best fit is to assume that this Squire John Wenlock is the son of the Sir John Wenlock,kt., and that the latter preferred to live on his estates in France. The squire John Wenlock, nicely fist as the John Wenlock esquire originally in service to the Talbots. However, this John made a will 6 years after the battle of Tewkesbury, asking for pauper's funeral, but leaving a cup of gold and a chest stuffed with jewels and things. Although lord Wenlock's name appears on Edward IV's list of those gathered in the West Country, it is NOT on the list of traitors issued by the duke of Norfolk, who had been in tutelage to Lord Wenlock during his non-age! The John Wenlock will leaves the chest of jewels to his son Thomas "if he liveth". In fact, this Thomas was living in France and it is shown that his descendants held deeds to land in Shropshire that had at on time belonged to William Wenlock! It seems that a fraud was perpetrated during the reign of Henry VIII, and they lost the properties.
Sixteen days after the battle of Tewkesbury, lady Agnes Wenlock signed a deed with the abbot of Glastonbury. In this deed she arranges to collect, at some convenient time, the treasure that Lord Joh Wenlock left with abbot John Selwood, on his way north to Tewkesbury. The items include a cup of gold and a chest stuffed with jewels and things!
There is much, much, more, and it needs to be discussed and assessed. Was Agnes unaware that her husband was alive when she married Sir John Say, or did she wait the three years to "assume" that he was dead and legally remarry? Wenlock and Say had pre-obtained pardons for her from the Pope! Is the Syon Cope part of the cope and chasuble that had belonged to dean William Wenlock? It was certainly worn by lord Wenlock's step-granddaughter!
Adrian F. Fray
I have been researching lord John Wenlock for 25 years and have uncovered several controversial items. These have been written up in the form of a detective story or discussion document entitled "The Mystery of Lord Wenlock and His Glastonbury Treasure" (Austen Macauley 2016). I suggest that the famous "Wenlock Jug" etc., (see on NET), that the Cosmopolitan Museum of New York wanted to buy for £750,000 as an example of late 14C English bronze casting, is probably 15C Burgundian workmanship!
I also suggest that Prof. Roskell's biography of Lord Wenlock, and his History of Parliament Vol.1, contain errors. Lord Wenlock is attributed as being the younger brother of Sir Thomas Wenlock, and son of William Wyvell (alias Wenlock) nephew of dean William Wenlock. This William Wyvell (alias Wenlock) was executor of dean William Wenlock's will dated 1391/2. I note that, at the end of his will, the Dean leaves 15marks to John, the son of William Wyvell, and 20marks to the other son (Thomas?). If John had only just been born he would have been at least 79 years old in 1471, at the Battle of Tewkesbury, and if he was a young teenager he would have been in his early nineties in 1471. I did wonder whether John might have died as an infant and that William Wynell's wife (in her forties) had another son whom they named John. However, Prof. Roskell also assumes that lord John Wenlock is the Sir John Wenlock who became Captain of Vernon in 1421. I have recently obtained a copy of the Muster Roll for the preceding decade when Sir William Porter kt., was Captain of Vernon, and I find that a John Wenlock is forth on the list. This John is unlikely to have been a teenager, and I suppose that he would have been between his mid-twenties and his mid-forties. If that were the case, he would be in his late seventies or early nineties in 1471, in agreement with the Dean's will.
ALL of the early diplomatic commissions for the future Lord Wenlock refer to him as Squire John Wenlock, or John Wenlock, esquire. This seems unlikely if he had been Captain of Vernon. Furthermore, there is a Sir John Wenlock, kt., who is occasionally in England at the same time as the diplomatic missions of a Squire John (lord) Wenlock. My best fit is to assume that this Squire John Wenlock is the son of the Sir John Wenlock,kt., and that the latter preferred to live on his estates in France. The squire John Wenlock, nicely fist as the John Wenlock esquire originally in service to the Talbots. However, this John made a will 6 years after the battle of Tewkesbury, asking for pauper's funeral, but leaving a cup of gold and a chest stuffed with jewels and things. Although lord Wenlock's name appears on Edward IV's list of those gathered in the West Country, it is NOT on the list of traitors issued by the duke of Norfolk, who had been in tutelage to Lord Wenlock during his non-age! The John Wenlock will leaves the chest of jewels to his son Thomas "if he liveth". In fact, this Thomas was living in France and it is shown that his descendants held deeds to land in Shropshire that had at on time belonged to William Wenlock! It seems that a fraud was perpetrated during the reign of Henry VIII, and they lost the properties.
Sixteen days after the battle of Tewkesbury, lady Agnes Wenlock signed a deed with the abbot of Glastonbury. In this deed she arranges to collect, at some convenient time, the treasure that Lord Joh Wenlock left with abbot John Selwood, on his way north to Tewkesbury. The items include a cup of gold and a chest stuffed with jewels and things!
There is much, much, more, and it needs to be discussed and assessed. Was Agnes unaware that her husband was alive when she married Sir John Say, or did she wait the three years to "assume" that he was dead and legally remarry? Wenlock and Say had pre-obtained pardons for her from the Pope! Is the Syon Cope part of the cope and chasuble that had belonged to dean William Wenlock? It was certainly worn by lord Wenlock's step-granddaughter!
Adrian F. Fray
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