Joan de Berkeley, sister of Roger de Somery, and Joan de Camville
Douglas Richardson
This past week, while searching through the helpful online PROCAT
Catalogue (http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/), I found the following
document dated 1269 involving the Somery, Berkeley, Bryan, and
Camville families.
Lady Joan de Berkeley named in this document can be readily identified
as Joan de Somery, widow of Thomas de Berkeley (died 1243). She was
the sister of Sir Roger de Somery (died 1273), for whom she was acting
as attorney in this record. The other parties involved in this record
are William de Camville and his wife, Joan. The wording of the
document indicates that Joan de Camville was previously the wife of
Sir Guy de Bryan, of Tor Brian, Devon, the male line ancestor of Guy
de Bryan, Lord Bryan (died 1390).
E 210/214:
Agreement between the lady Joan de Berkeley and Richard de Roylly,
clerk, attorneys of Sir Roger de Sumery, of the one part, and Simon de
Ros, clerk, and Walter de Wugewylle, attorneys of William de Camvile,
and Joan his wife, of the other part, viz. that the said William and
Joan shall receive the manor of Torre Brione, with the advowson of the
church, for part of the dower of all the lands which formerly belonged
to Sir Guy de Briona in the parts of Devon; reserving two parts of
five foreign fees belonging to the said [Sir Roger de Su]mery in the
said parts. Dated: Saturday after St. Peter ad Vincula, 53 Henry III
[3 August 1269]. END OF DOCUMENT.
Sir Roger de Somery and his sister, Joan de Berkeley, named above were
children of Ralph de Somery (died c. 1211), by his wife, Margaret,
sister of William Marshal, Earl of Pembroke. I mentioned the Somery
and Marshal families in a post last week regarding a document
involving the Englefield family. Many members of the newsgroup
descend from these various families.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Many thanks for this excellent post.
Can you clarify for us whether this DOCUMENT is the translation of the
document or an English abstract of the original document?
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
John Ravilious
Dear Doug, Tim, et al.,
Thanks for that very interesting post and PRO extract.
This provides an additional link between the Camvilles of Clifton
Campville, co. Stafford (later Lords Camville) and the family of Sir
Guy de Bryan, or Brien. As shown below, Geoffrey de Camville (son of
William by his first wife Lucy) was married to Maud de Bryan, widow of
Nicholas Martin and daughter of Sir Guy de Bryan. * The marital
notations <1>, <2> represent numeration for the husbands of Joan
(____) (de Bryan) de Camville.
<2> <1>
1) Lucy = WILLIAM de = 2) JOAN = SIR GUY = 1) Eve de
I CAMVILLE de BRYAN I Tracy
I I
I________ _________________I
I I
2) Geoffrey de = Maud de = 1) Nicholas
Camville I Bryan I Martin
Lord Camville I I dvp ca. 1260
d bef 12 Sept 1308 I I
I I
V V
from whom, from whom,
Lords Camville; and Lords Martin;
Vernon of Haddon and Lords Audley;
Harleston, co. Derbys. Lords FitzWarin
Interestingly, according to my notes, the CP account indicates
that William de Camville d. in 1260; this evidently requires
emendation.
~ More typically, while the 'structure' given above is as per my
notes (based primarily on CP), one would expect Maud de Bryan to have
been Joan's daughter by Sir Guy de Bryan - not a requirement, but
certainly a typical situation. The identification of the mother of
Maud de Bryan appears to require further examination.
Cheers,
John
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote in message news:<5cf47a19.04052...@posting.google.com>...
Doug Smith
Hi John
One question - might not Joan have been married to another Sir Guy de
Bryan, father to the one you have shown?
Doug Smith