Piers Gaveston
ED MANN
>
> I know that Piers Gaveston was married to a niece of Edward II (Joan of Acre
> and Gilbert de Clare's daughter). Did they have any children? and did those
> children have descendants?
Descendants of Peter de Gaveston
1 Sir Peter de Gaveston aka: Piers de Gaveston b: Abt. 1284 d: 19 Jun
1312
+Margaret de Clare b: Oct 1292 d: 9 Apr 1342 ref #: F5:13
2 Amy de Gaveston b: Aft. 6 Jan 1311/12 ref #: Ä16A-31
+John de Driby d: Aft. 30 Nov 1357
3 [2] Alice de Driby b: Abt. 1340 d: 12 Oct 1412 ref #: Ä16A-32
+Sir Ralph Basset aka: 3d Lord Basset of Sapcote d: 17 Jul 1378 ref
#: BxP:27
4 Elizabeth Basset ref #: BxP:28
+Sir Richard de Grey aka: 4th Lord Grey of Codnor d: 1418 ref #:
BxP:28
5 Lucy Grey ref #: (Ä212-36A)
+Sir Rowland Lenthall ref #: (Ä212-36A)
6 Katherine Lenthall ref #: (Ä212-36A)
+Sir William la Zouche aka: 6th Baron Zouche of Haryngworth b: Abt.
1432 d: 15 Jan 1467/68 ref #: W79-10A
7 Sir John la Zouche aka: 7th Baron Zouche of Haryngworth b: 1459 d:
Mar 1525/26 ref #: W79-11
+Joan Dinham d: 23 Jun 1526 ref #: W125-9
5 Sir John de Grey aka: 5th Lord Grey of Codnor ref #: BxP:248
5 Sir Henry Grey aka: 6th Lord Grey of Codnor d: 7 Jul 1444 ref #:
BxP:248
+Margaret Percy d: 28 Sep 1464 ref #: BxP:424
6 [1] Sir Henry Grey aka: 7th Baron Grey of Codnor d: 8 Apr 1496 ref
#: BxP:249
+Margaret Stanley d: Abt. 1481 ref #: F268:6
*2nd Wife of [1] Sir Henry Grey:
+Catherine Stourton
5 Elizabeth Grey ref #: BxP:248
+John Zouche ref #: BxP:248
*2nd Husband of [2] Alice de Driby:
+Sir Robert Tochet
*3rd Husband of [2] Alice de Driby:
+Sir Anketil Mallory d: 26 Mar 1393 ref #: (Ä16A-32)
4 Sir William Mallory b: Abt. 1375 d: 1445 ref #: Ä16A-33
+Margaret ref #: (see notes)
5 Margaret Mallory b: Abt. 1397 d: 1438 ref #: Ä16A-34
4 [3] Katherine Mallory ref #: (Ä232-33)
+Ralph Greene ref #: (Ä232-33)
*2nd Husband of [3] Katherine Mallory:
+Sir Simon de Felbrigg aka: K.G. ref #: W6-7
--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:edl...@mail2.lcia.com
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
NK1 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_One_, [page].
Π= Hardy, _Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America_,
[page].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat emptor.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat emptor.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page]
Leo van de Pas
>I know that Piers Gaveston was married to a niece of Edward II (Joan of Acre
>and Gilbert de Clare's daughter). Did they have any children? and did those
>children have descendants?
Dear Rania,
What I have is far from complete, but :
They had one daughter :
Amy de Gaveston
born after 6 January 1312
married circa 1334
John de Driby, son of John de Driby
died after 30 November 1357
mother of :
Alice de Driby
born circa 1340
died 12 October 1412
married (1)
Sir Ralph Basset
married (2)
Sir Robert Tochet
married (3)
Sir Anketil Mallory
mother of :
(1st marriage)
1.Elizabeth Basset
married before 1378
Richard de Grey, 4th Lord Grey of Codnor
son of Sir Henry de Grey and Joan de Cobham
born circa 1371, died 1 August 1418
buried at Aylesford
child :
a.Lucy de Grey
married Sir Rowland Lenthall, of Hampton Court
child :
b.Katherine Lenthall
married William La Zouche, 6th Lord Zouche
son of William La Zouche, 5th Lord Zouche
and Alice Seymour
born circa 1432
died circa January 1468
descendants
(3rd marriage)
2.Sir William Mallory, of Shawbury
born circa 1375, died 1445
married (1)
NN
married (2)
Margaret
born circa 1397, died 1438
Sources :
Burke's Extinct Peerage
London, 1866 by Sir Bernard Burke
The Complete Peerage
The Lineage and Ancestry of HRH Prince Charles,
Prince of Wales, Edinburgh, 1977
by Gerald Paget
Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists
who came to America before 1700
Baltimore, 1995, by Frederick Lewis Weis,
Walter L. Sheppard
Further
Amy de Gaveston is an ancestor of, amongst
many other interesting people,
HM Queen Elizabeth II
Lady Diana Spencer
Sarah Ferguson
The Aga Khan
Lord Edward FitzGerald (Irish rebel)
Earl of Carnarvon (with Howard Carter
found the grave of Tut-Ankh-Amen)
Lord Longford (author)
Lady Antonia Fraser (author)
and the following Prime Ministers of England
William Pitt the Elder
William Pitt the Younger
3rd Duke of Portland
3rd Duke of Grafton
Sir Anthony Eden
Sir Alec Douglas-Home
Hope this helps?
Leo van de Pas
Tigers14
John Carmi Parsons
had been various projects to marry her into a ranking English family, but
she died unmarried. She had lived at the convent at Amesbury under the
care of her grandaunt Mary, Edward I's daughter who was a nun there; she
died and was buried at Amesbury.
John P.
John Carmi Parsons
either of the current monographs on Piers Gaveston assign him a daughter
of this name--at least not a legitimate daughter by Margaret de Clare.
There is a short family tree of Piers' immediate relatives in one of the
monographs and it may be verifiable from that that Piers had a sister or
niece named Amy, but not until these postings have I ever seen him
credited with a daughter of that name.
Piers' daughter Joan was b. in Feb. 1312 and d. at Amesbury 14 Jan. 1325 (N.S.)
according to *CP*.
John P.
On Thu, 3 Jun 1999, ED MANN wrote:
> Tigers14 wrote:
> >
> > I know that Piers Gaveston was married to a niece of Edward II (Joan of Acre
> > and Gilbert de Clare's daughter). Did they have any children? and did those
> > children have descendants?
>
Leo van de Pas
>I don't know who this Amy Gaveston is, but neither *Complete Peerage* nor
>either of the current monographs on Piers Gaveston assign him a daughter
>of this name--at least not a legitimate daughter by Margaret de Clare.
Dear John,
The new (XIV) edition of the Complete Peerage
page 208 : ......'For persuasive evidence
that Gaveston had two daughters, the second,
Amy, being born after 6 January 1312,
see J.G. Hunt, Amer.Geneal. vols. 35,1959,
pp.100-6; 37,1961, pp45-7; 40,1964 p.25.
I found Amy de Gaveston in the 5th edition
of 'Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists who
came to New England between 1623 and 1650' by
Frederick Lewis Weis and Walter Lee Sheppard Jr.
Published 1976 by Genealogical Publishing Co, Baltimore.
Page 19 :
Line 16A
Margaret de Clare mother of :
Amy de Gaveston, damsel of the Chamber to
Queen Philippa, born soon after 6 January 1312; married in or before 1334,
John de Driby, etc.
Sources quoted (Am.Gen. 35: 100-106, 245;
37: 45-51; 40: 95-99, 253). I have no access
to those, perhaps someone can enlighten us
and tell what this persuasive evidence is.
Many thanks,
Leo van de Pas
John Carmi Parsons
know exactly what this "persuasive" evidence might be. It was obviously not
persuasive enough to convince either Pierre Chaplais or Jeff Hamilton. I am
particularly concerned by the fact that while Edward II lavishly celebrated
Joan's birth, we hear *nothing* in his financial records of similar largesse at
the birth of any later child to Piers and Margaret. Thus J.G. Hunt could only
say that Amy was born "after 1312." Had two daughters of Piers' marriage
survived him, both would have appeared in his Inquisitions Post Mortem since
they would have been his coheirs, and we would thus know pretty much when Amy
was born. No such daughter is mentioned in those Inquisitions, despite the
fact that this Amy obviously lived to adulthood.
Even more damning, to my mind, is the fact that had Amy been a legitimate
daughter of Margaret and Piers, she would inescapably have participated in her
mother's share of the Clare inheritance, as would Joan had she outlived her
mother (regardless of Piers' unpopularity and the manner of his death, Joan was
Margaret's legitimate daughter and could not have been excluded from her
inheritance). Margaret's entire share of the Clare inheritance, however,
passed to her only daughter by her second marriage. No surviving daughter or
descendants of the first marriage were ever mentioned. So I cannot accept Amy
as a legitimate child of Piers Gaveston and Margaret de Clare. Were Amy Piers'
daughter, she must have been OOW (which is interesting enough in itself, given
the assumption that he and Edward II were lovers).
John P.
> >> Ś = Hardy, _Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America_,
ROBERT E. BOWMAN
satisfactorily that Piers Gaveston had a daughter Amy.
Let us all remember though that Hunt erred completeley and totally in
stating that her descendant was that Margaret Mallory who married Robert
Corbet. In fact Margaret NN married first Robert Corbet and second Sir
William Mallory. This has been hashed and re-hashed on this forum over the
last several years
Ed Mann does not fall into the Mallory/Corbet marriage fallacy but I think
he errs in saying Margaret, wife of William Mallory was born in about 1397
because she was evidently bearing children via Robert Corbet about 1410 and
subsequently
Robert Bowman
Henry Sutliff
"ROBERT E. BOWMAN" wrote:
Hunt was also the author of a series of articles which he claimed proved that
the wife of Rev. William Brewster of the Mayflower was a Mary Wyrall who was
allegedly descended from Edward III via the Camoys, Hastings, Donne, Rede and
Mallory families. His "proof" was based on the theory that a testator of a will
lisped and hence the inconsistancies of the will which he felt proved that the
Mary Butto of the will was the same as Mary Brwester.
I believe Hunt also had previously identified this same wife of Brewster as
Mary Wentworth of Scrooby, but later research suggested this Mary was too old
to have borne Brewster's children.
Henry Sutliff
Reedpcgen
historians may not always be aware of. I will try to remember to check was
Hunt put forward as evidence, though many of his conclusions have proved rather
less than acceptable.
pcr
Reedpcgen
was Mary Wentworth, which would have been wonderful. He then abandoned that
hypothesis and moved to what he claims now, which is very unsubstantiated.
You might compare what Hunt was able to do with the Harley problem in an
article published in _The Genealogist_ with what I was able to find, published
in a later article in that journal.
pcr
Robert O'Connor
Reedpcgen <reed...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990605004001...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
++++
By the Harley problem, do mean the connection between Sir Robert Harley and
John Besford (part of the Throckmorton ancestry)?
AR7 p 31 severs the connection between Sir Robert Harley & his wife Joan
Corbet AND Joan Harley wife of John Besford.
Have you reached any alternative conclusions?
--
Robert O'Connor
roco...@es.co.nz
Christchurch
New Zealand
G Railston
HMcle...@aol.com wrote in message <8aafb7d4...@aol.com>...
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Mulum in parvo.
Pax vobiscum.
This train is decidedly late. <bg>
JRG.