Domesday Landholders
pap...@atl.mediaone.net
I've just begun the task of looking for information on the Domesday
Landholder, Payne (or Pagan). I have found bits of information on his
family listed in "The Domesday Book. England's Heritage, Then and
Now," edited by Thomas Hinde. I realize that this is not the ideal
source, but it's a beginning for me nonetheless. I've considered
purchasing some of the books mentioned recently in the group, Domesday
Names and Domesday People. Can anyone recommend one over the other or
would both be useful to me? What about COEL?
The following gets lenghty, but I hope someone can make some use of it
and perhaps someone can give me some background, input, or point out
errors. There are some short biographies included below.
The book states that its entries are from the English translations
given in Phillmore and Company's volumes, which I have sometimes
picked through at the library. One of the first hurdles I've come upon
is the use of the name Payne. In virtually every case, the entries use
that spelling, while in Suffolk, they use Pagan. An early researcher,
Dr. T.O. Paine, claimed that all mentions of the name in Domesday were
given as Pagan. Therefore, should I assume that Phillmore and Co., in
their translation, used the derivative form, Payne? with the exception
of Suffolk for some reason? I also noted that in one entry, it refers
to Pagan's son, Edmund, as Edmund FitzPayne. It actually reads,
"Reynold the priest with the daughter of Payne from Edmund FitzPayne."
This seems to correlate with T.O. Paine's conclusion that Pagan had a
son, Edmund, and a daughter, unnamed. But in the entries for
Devonshire, there is mention of a Ralph and a Roger FitzPayne as well.
Can it be assumed that Ralph and Roger were also sons of Pagan, or
would the assumption be that there was another Payne in Domesday?
I am also interested in learning more about those named in the entries
with Pagan/Payne, such as:
William FitzAnsculf- Also called William of Pinkeni, from Picquigny,
Somme. Son of the sheriff of Buckinghamshire. Payne held lands from
FitzAnsculf in 8 locations.
Roger d' Ivry- Also called "Butler". From Ivry la Bataille, Eure.
Married to Adeline, daughter of Hugh de Grandmesnil. Sworn
"brother-in-arms" of Robert d'Oilly. Thought to have been sometime
sheriff of Gloucestershire. Payne held lands of d' Ivry in 3
locations.
Hardwin of Scales- Payne held lands of Hardwin of Scales in 7
locations. The book does not include any biographical data on him.
William FitzNigel- Constable of Earl of Chester; ancestor of the
Lacy's, Earl's of Lincoln. Payne held lands from FitzNigel in 3
locations.
William Peverel- Perhaps illegitimate son of William I by his mistress
(unnamed); Peverel took the name from his stepfather who had married
her. Payne held lands from Peverel in 2 locations.
Richard FitzGilbert- Pagan held lands from FitzGilbert in 3 locations.
Earl Roger- Earl of Shrewsbury 1071-74 through his death in 1094..
Also Roger of Montgomery. From St. Germain de Montgomery, near
Lisieux. Lord of Sussex rape of Arundel, with castle there; Son of
William FitzOsbern, Earl of Hereford, 1071, till 1075-76, when he
rebelled with Earl Ralph of East Anglia and his lands were forfeited.
Payne held lands from the Earl at Singleton, Sussex.
Humphrey d' L'Isle- Payne held lands from d' L'Isle in 2 locations.
William Cheever- Ralph FitzPayne held lands from Cheever at Ivedon,
Devonshire.
Ralph de Pomeroy- Roger FitzPayne held lands from Pomeroy at Peamore,
Devonshire.
Swein of Essex- Son of Robert FitzWymark. Sheriff of Essex for a
period between 1066 and 1086. Payne held lands from Swein at 2
locations in Essex.
Maurice, Bishop of London- Bishop of London 1086-1107. Chancellor
after bishop Osmund of Salisbury. Payne held lands from the bishop at
2 locations. No biographical data.
Would the fact that Payne held so much land from individuals indicate
a close connection to them or was this a common thing 1000 years ago?
How was land generally acquired if not given directly "of the King,"
as was the case with Payne's son, Edmund, on two occasions? Also, by
receiving lands "of the King", what significance would that have held,
if any?
I was surprised that Payne didn't qualify as a major landholder! Payne
had 33 holdings in 20 counties. 36 if he was identical to Pagan as I
believe he was. This was far more than many of the "large" landholders
that made the cut in the book. In fact, he appears to have been one of
the larger landholders, although he apparently held none of the king
(T.O. Paine claims he did though).
Other's of interest mentioned with Pagan/Payne include:
Walter Giffard- Son of Osbern de Bolbec. Domesday Commissioner, keeper
of Windsor Castle; Earl of Buckingham (1100); d. 1103. If Osbern of
Bolbec was a kinsman of Hugh of Bolbec, then his heirs became the
Earl's of Oxford.
Baldwin- Abbot of Bury St. Edmunds, 1065-1097/98. Edward "The
Confessor's" doctor.
Hugh de Grandmesnil- From Grandmesnil, Calvados. Daughter married
Roger d' Ivry. Sheriff of Leicestershire, constable of Leicester
Castle. Went into St. Evroul's Monastery and died there, 1094.
Walkelin Winchester- Bishop of Winchester 1070-1098; builder of the
Cathedral.
Richard de Vernon
Reynold the Priest (husband of Payne's daughter)- Believed to have
been identical with Reinbald the Priest. Also called Rainbald the
Chancellor and Reinbald of Chichester. Appointed first Chancellor of
England by Edward "The Confessor" in 1042.
Goddard
Wilard
Ulmar
Earl William FitzOsbern- also Earl of Hertford. Son of Osbern Sieward
of Normandy; brother of Osbern, Bishop of Exeter. Married Adeline,
sister of Ralph de Tosny. Large estates in the west and Isle of Wight,
broken up when his son, Roger, rebelled. Regent with Odo of Bayeux,
1067.
Earl Sieward (possibly the father of William FitzOsbern above?)- Also
called Sieward the bairn (warrior). Joined Edwin and Morcar (who held
lands with Payne) in rebellion of 1071.
Earl Waltheof of Huntingdon- Son of Earl Sieward (above), husband of
Countess Judity. Earl of Northumbria 1072-75; executed 1076.
Ralph of Tosny- Also called Ralph of Conches. From Tosny, Eure. Son
of Roger de Tosny; older brother of Robert of Stafford (is there a
connection here to the Stafford family?); sister Adeline, married Earl
William FitzOsbern. Seat at Flamstead, Herts.; Lord of Clifford
Castle, Herefordshire.
Robert of Stafford- Son of Roger de Tosny; brother of Ralph; married
Roger Bigot's daughter.
Roger Bigot- Also called Roger the Sheriff. From Les Loges, Calvados.
Daughter married Robert of Stafford. Sheriff of Norfolk and Suffolk in
1086; Ancestor of Bigot family, the Earl's of Norfolk.
Geoffrey
William- (possibly William, Count Eu)- William d'Eu, from Eu, port of
Siene-Maritime. Second son of Count Robert. Second wife, Hugh of
Chester's sister. Lord of Sussex rape of Hastings. Rebelled 1088 and
1094; blinded, castrated and executed, 1096.
Hugh, Earl of Chester- also Earl of Avaranches. Also called Hugh Lupus
(wolf) and Hugh the Fat. Nephew of William I, sister married Count
William d'Eu; daughter Matilda, married Robert, Count of Mortain.
Virtual sovereign of Cheshire. Captured Angelsea from the Welsh, 1098;
became so fat he could barely crawl, d. 1101.
Monk's of St. Evroul's
Warin
Goldbold
Odo- (possibly Odo, Bishop of Bayeux)- Also Earl of Kent, 1067-1082.
Half-brother of William I, son of Robert of Normandy and Herleva, his
mistress. Regent of William I in his absence. Arrested in 1082, in
prison at Rouen in 1086, pardoned by William I on his death-bed,
rebelled against William Rufus in 1088, defeated; fled to Normandy,
died in 1097 on the first Crusade.
Ralph (possibly Ralph de Pomeroy?)
Ranulf
Gilbert (probably NOT Gilbert Grus)- Gilbery Grus was bishop of
Evreux. in 1071; d. 1118.
Aldred
Riculf
Saxfrid
Regards,
Patrick Payne
Atlanta, Georgia
Colin Bevan
Are you are assuming that all the Paynes mentioned in the Domesday Book are
the one and same person? I doubt it very much taking into consideration the
diversity of origin of the landholders which 'Payne' held land from. As you
have noticed 'he' seems to have held rather a lot of land. Pagan was the
latin version of the vernacular Pain(e)/Payn(e) and can be interpreted as
the same name. No Paine appears to be a tenant in chief at this time (1086).
Keats- Rohan in Domesday People p. 321-322 separates the Pagans into 10
identities. Whether some of them are the same person it is difficult to
tell.
Pagan Dapifer - Major Domesday tenant of Harduin de Scalariis. Indentified
in IE as Harduin's dapifer, he is likely to have been close to Harduin,
perhaps related to him. In 1214 Juliana widow of Robert fitzPain sought
dower in Conington, Cambs. (one of Payn's 1086 holdings) against Geoffrey
Sackville.
Pagan de Capellis - Norman, Domesday tenant of Richard de Clare in Suffolk.
His three manors were held by Alberic de Capellis from the early twelfth
century onwards, thus permitting his identification as the Payn de Capellis
who attested a charter for Jumieges given in 1079 by a tenant of Richard de
Clare. La Chapelle-Haute-Grue, Calvados, cant. livarot, is not far from
Orbec.
Pagan- Domesday tenant of Gilbert de Breteville
Pagan- Domesday tenant of William fitz Ansculf of Picqigny. In 1166 his
Buckinghamshire fees were held by Ralph and Walter Mansel.
Pagan- Domesday tenant of William Peverel of Nottingham, in
Northamptonshire; father of Robert, an early benefactor of Lenton priory.
Pagan- Domesday tenant of Swein of Essex
Pagan- Domesday tenant of Roger Bigod
Pagan - Domesday tenant of Roger d'Ivry. Probably ancestor of the Westbury
family of whom Adelelm occurs c 1140 and Payn of Westbury
Pagen - Domesday tenant of Earl Hugh of Chester
Pagen - Domesday tenant of earl Roger of Shrewsbury in Sussex
Hope this is of some help.
Rosie