Baldwin Wake
D. Spencer Hines
The short title for AR7 is, of course:
_Ancestral Roots, 7th Edition_
And the long title is:
_Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists Who Came To America
Before 1700; (Formerly Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists Who Came To
New England Between 1623 & 1650): The Lineage of Alfred the Great,
Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong and Some of Their
Descendants._
Frederick Lewis Weis (1895-1966), Walter Lee Sheppard, Jr. (1911- )
and David Faris
Baltimore, Maryland, Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc., 7th Edition
(1992); reprinted in Jan 1996; ISBN # 0-8063-1207-6.
This is one of those books that anyone who is serious about Medieval
Royal and Noble Genealogy should have on the short shelf near the
computer.
AR7 is not error-free by any means, as many of us well know.
Line 184A has been "Prepared by Douglas Richardson". I'm not taking any
sort of cheap shot at Douglas.
"Just the facts Ma'am."
But, can we trust this line, which leads from Baldwin Wake [d. 1282] to
Gilbert FitzRichard [d. 1114-1117] de Clare and his wife Adeliza de
Clermont? Has this line been thoroughly vetted?
Baldwin Wake is the ancestor of many of the folks reading this, whether
they know it or not.
We all look forward to the new version of AR7 forthcoming from David
Faris and Douglas Richardson.
When might we expect to see it?
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Sol Remedium Optimum Est. Peccatoris Justificatio Absque Paenitentia,
Legem Destruit Moralem.
Douglas Richardson
at the printers and I expect it will be available for purchase through
NEHGS in Boston in about 30-45 days. The next book in this series is
the forthcoming Magna Carta Ancestry under the co-authorship of Dr.
Faris and myself. Barring major obstacles, MCA should be available for
purchase this coming spring. We are currently in the process of
printing and proofing the final draft. Once MCA is completed, Dr.
Faris and I plan to turn our attention to the next book in the series,
namely Baronial Ancestry. We're already about half finished with the
Baronial Ancestry book. It will feature descents from all the major
baronial families of England from the time of the Conquest forward.
The Wake descent in Ancestral Roots, 7th edition, which you asked about
is still sound as far as I know. There is no connection, by the way,
between Ancestral Roots, 7th edition, edited by Walter Lee Sheppard,
Jr., and the series of books Dr. Faris and I are doing. Dr. Faris and
I have both assisted Mr. Sheppard in the past but neither of us are
associated with him currently. I recommend you contact Mr. Sheppard
regarding the status of future editions of that book.
I trust that answers your question. Sincerely, Douglas Richardson
In article <81h6nj$ou0$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>, "D. Spencer Hines"
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
D. Spencer Hines
Yes, it does. Thank you kindly. Except, will Line 184A appear in any
of these books that you and David Faris are working on?
Any other opinions on this Line 184A, from other players?
Sincerely and Happy Thanksgiving To All,
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava
beans and a nice Chianti." --- Dr. Hannibal Lecter [Anthony Hopkins] to
Agent Clarice Starling [Jodie Foster] (Yale '84) in "The Silence of the
Lambs" [1991]
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:11f733ec...@usw-ex0107-043.remarq.com...
John Ravilious
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Friday, November 26, 1999
As with many other participants, I am looking forward to the
upcoming edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, as well as other forthcoming
works (e.g. MCA). I do not know if the new edition of PA includes
Samuel Hyde of Newton, Massachusetts, but [unless there is a serious
flaw in the following table] his ancestry supports his inclusion.
The source abbreviations used below:
PA = Plantagenet Ancestry (1st ed.)
BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
(GPS, 1999)
VC = The Visitation of Cheshire, 1580
1. Samuel Hyde, b.ca. 1610, Denton, Lancashire; m. 1630, Temperance
[Crompton ?]; d. 12 Sep 1689, Newton, Massachusetts
2. William Hyde of Denton, b. ca. 1563, d. 1640
3. Eleanor Molineux, b. 1574
4. Robert Hyde of Norbury and Hyde, Cheshire, b. 1543, d. 22 Mar 1614
[BR]
5. Ann Arderne, first wife
6. John Molineux of New Hall [BR]
7. Anna Radcliffe [BR]
8. Robert Hyde, b. ca. 1522, d. 1571
9. Jane Davenport, b. ca. 1525, d. after 1566
12. Sir Richard Molyneux of Sefton, Sheriff of Lancashire ca. 1556,
d. 3 Jan 1568/69
13. Eleanor Radcliffe
14. Richard Radcliffe of Langley, d. 1577 [BR]
15. Elizabeth Gerard, d. 1564
16. Hamnet Hyde of Norbury, d. after 1526 [BR]
17. Margaret Warren [BR]
24. Sir William Molyneux of Sefton, b. ca. 1481, d. 1548 [BR]
25. Jane Rugge, first wife
30. Sir Thomas Gerard of Kingsley and Bryn, b. 1488, k. at Berwick
7 Nov 1523 [PA, p. 113]
31. Margaret [Margery] Trafford, d. 10 May 1540 -
descendant of Edward I [PA, p. 113 - pedigree of Gerard]
34. Laurence Warren of Poynton, b. ca. 1480, d. 18 Sept 1530 [BR]
35. Margaret Leigh of Lyme [BR, VC - Leigh of Lyme, p. 153]
48. Sir Thomas Molyneux, d. after 1482 [BR]
49. Anna Dutton of Dutton [BR]
70. Sir Piers [Peter] Leigh [VC - Leigh of Lyme, p. 153]
71. Eleanor Savage
96. Sir Richard Molyneux, k. at Blore Heath, 23 Sep 1459 [BR]
97. Elizabeth Stanley [BR]
98. Thomas Dutton, Lord Dutton, k. at Blore Heath, 23 Sep 1459
99. Ann Touchet
142. John Savage [VC; PA, p. 113 - pedigree of Gerard; also other
pedigrees - Wyllys, etc.]
143. Katherine Stanley - descendant of Edward I [PA, p. 113, as above]
194. Thomas Stanley, Lord Stanley [BR; PA, p. 113] - also father of
#143, great-grandfather of #31
195. Joan Goushill - descendant of Edward I [PA, p. 113, as above] -
also mother of #143, great-grandmother of #31
198. James Touchet, Lord Audley, k. at Blore Heath 23 Sep 1459
[PA, p. 270 - pedigree of Tuchet, Lewknor]
199. Margaret de Ros - descendant of Edward I [PA, p. 270, as above]
Additional details re: the ancestry of Samuel Hyde have not been
included above, as they are fairly extensive and do not directly bear on
the issue of his descent from Edward I of England.
I would appreciate any feedback as to errors that may be noted
above, or any suggestions or comments especially concerning any other
connections of Samuel Hyde with Edward I or his descendants. If anyone
has e-mail or other contact with David Faris, please pass this along as
his comments would certainly be helpful (and appreciated).
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
John
Antony IvanSmith
Australia. He was according to Debrett''s a direct descendent of Hereward
the Wake and the last of his line as is only son died at birth.
Is Baldwin Wake in that same line??
(This is not a Cosby question.)
regards Antony Ivan Smith
D. Spencer Hines wrote in message
<81h6nj$ou0$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
John Steele Gordon
> As with many other participants, I am looking forward to the
> upcoming edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, as well as other forthcoming
> works (e.g. MCA). I do not know if the new edition of PA includes
> Samuel Hyde of Newton, Massachusetts, but [unless there is a serious
> flaw in the following table] his ancestry supports his inclusion.
>
> The source abbreviations used below:
>
> PA = Plantagenet Ancestry (1st ed.)
> BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
> (GPS, 1999)
I have not heard of this book before, which given the date is hot off
the press. But as someone with a very considerable Maryland ancestry, it
interests me greatly. Can someone tell me something about it? What
families it covers, what references it relies on, how scholarly it is,
etc.
Thanks,
JSG
--
http://www.familyorigins.com/users/g/o/r/John-S-Gordon
Leslie Mahler
> John Ravilious wrote:
>
> > As with many other participants, I am looking forward to the
> > upcoming edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, as well as other
> forthcoming
> > works (e.g. MCA). I do not know if the new edition of PA includes
> > Samuel Hyde of Newton, Massachusetts, but [unless there is a serious
>
> > flaw in the following table] his ancestry supports his inclusion.
> >
> > The source abbreviations used below:
> >
> > PA = Plantagenet Ancestry (1st ed.)
> > BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
>
> > (GPS, 1999)
>
> I have not heard of this book before, which given the date is hot off
> the press. But as someone with a very considerable Maryland ancestry,
> it
> interests me greatly. Can someone tell me something about it? What
> families it covers, what references it relies on, how scholarly it is,
>
> etc.
I understand that a review of this publication by Donna Valley Russell
will soon appear in "The American Genealogist".
Leslie
Sutliff
John Ravilious wrote:
> <snip>
>
> Friday, November 26, 1999
>
> As with many other participants, I am looking forward to the
> upcoming edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, as well as other forthcoming
> works (e.g. MCA). I do not know if the new edition of PA includes
> Samuel Hyde of Newton, Massachusetts, but [unless there is a serious
> flaw in the following table] his ancestry supports his inclusion.
>
> The source abbreviations used below:
>
> PA = Plantagenet Ancestry (1st ed.)
> BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
> (GPS, 1999)
<snip>
Joseph Foster's Pedigrees of the County Families of England: Lancashire (1873),
pedigree of Gerard of Bryn, shows that your Elizabeth Gerard #15 was married to
Richard Bold of Bold and not as you show. Perhaps there was more than one marriage
for Elizabeth? At least this shows a link that needs further research.
Best regards,
Henry Sutliff
Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr.
http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/msa/refserv/bulldog/bull99/bull13-18/html/bull13-18.html
Vol. 13, No. 18, (September 27, 1999)
"STAFF MEMBER COMPLETES NEW BOOK
Reference Archivist Robert Barnes has
presented the library of the Maryland
State Archives with a copy of his new
book, British Roots of Maryland
Families. Over 500 pages in length, the
book draws on land, church, and probate
records at the Archives and a variety of
sources from other repositories to present
information on the English, Scottish, Irish,
or Welsh ancestry of almost 500
individuals who settled in Maryland
between 1634 and the early 19th century.
Bob says the book was over five years in
the making."
ALSO:
Myra Vanderpool Gormley, a columnist
with the Los Angeles Times Syndicate,
mentions: "Two new books weigh in with a ton of
genealogy help
Thursday, September 30, 1999
By MYRA VANDERPOOL GORMLEY
SPECIAL TO THE POST-INTELLIGENCER"
http://www.seattle-pi.com/lifestyle/tree30.shtml
. . .
Part of the SECOND review states:
"This new book is touted as the most authoritative
account of the British origins of Maryland families
ever published. The work contains information
on nearly 500 individuals and families."
NOTE:
"very considerable Maryland ancestry"
http://www.ancestry.com/columns/myrtle/my980521.htm
Respectfully yours,
Tom Tinney, Sr.
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~vctinney/homepage.htm#Here
Listed in: Who's Who In The West, 1998/1999
Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry,
[both editions]
---------------------------------------
John Steele Gordon wrote:
> John Ravilious wrote:
>
> > As with many other participants, I am looking forward to the
> > upcoming edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, as well as other forthcoming
> > works (e.g. MCA). I do not know if the new edition of PA includes
> > Samuel Hyde of Newton, Massachusetts, but [unless there is a serious
> > flaw in the following table] his ancestry supports his inclusion.
> >
> > The source abbreviations used below:
> >
> > PA = Plantagenet Ancestry (1st ed.)
> > BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
> > (GPS, 1999)
>
> I have not heard of this book before, which given the date is hot off
> the press. But as someone with a very considerable Maryland ancestry, it
> interests me greatly. Can someone tell me something about it? What
> families it covers, what references it relies on, how scholarly it is,
> etc.
>
Chris Moore
<Snip>
> As with many other participants, I am looking forward to the
> upcoming edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, as well as other forthcoming
> works (e.g. MCA). I do not know if the new edition of PA includes
> Samuel Hyde of Newton, Massachusetts, but [unless there is a serious
> flaw in the following table] his ancestry supports his inclusion.
>
> 1. Samuel Hyde, b.ca. 1610, Denton, Lancashire; m. 1630, Temperance
> [Crompton ?]; d. 12 Sep 1689, Newton, Massachusetts
>
> 2. William Hyde of Denton, b. ca. 1563, d. 1640
Are these two Messrs. Hyde any relation to William Hyde (ca 1610-6 Jan.
1681/2) of Hartford/Saybrook and Norwich Connecticut?
Chris Moore
U...@aol.com
ckmm...@erols.com writes:
Was Samuel a brother of
Descendants of Edward Hyde
1 Edward Hyde 1608/09 - 1674 b: 18 February 1608/09 in Dinton, WIL,
ENG d: 09 December 1674 in Rouen, Normandy, FRA
......... 2 Ann Hyde 1637/38 - 1671 b: Abt. 12 March 1637/38 in
Windsor, BRK, ENG d: 31 March 1671 in St. James' Palace, London, ENG
............. +James II of England VII of Scotland 1633 - 1701 b: 14
October 1633 in St. James' Palace, London, ENG d: 16 September 1701 in St.
Germain-en-Lais, Paris, FRA
.................... 3 Charles Stuart
.................... 3 Charles Stuart
.................... 3 Edgar Stuart
.................... 3 Henrietta Stuart
.................... 3 James Stuart
.................... 3 Katherine Stuart
.................... 3 Mary II Queen of England 1662 - 1694 b: 1662
d: 1694
........................ +William III King of England 1650 -
1701/02 b: 14 November 1650 in The Hague, Holland d: 08 March 1701/02 in
Kensington Palace, London, ENG
.................... 3 Anne Queen of England 1664/65 - 1714 b: 06
February 1664/65 in St. James' Palace, London, ENG d: 1714
........................ +George of Denmark
Always optimistic--Dave
John Ravilious
Monday, November 28, 1999
Hi Chris -
Unfortunately, I do not know what if any relation William Hyde of
Norwich held with the Hydes of Norbury, co. Cheshire. In Hyde Genealogy
(Albany, 1864), Reuben Walworth acknowledged the existence of the
families of Samuel Hyde and of Jonathan Hyde, his brother, but stated
(p. 1) that William Hyde _is not certainly known to have been connected
with any of the Hyde families who came to this country from England,.._
Our _friends_ who created Ancestral Files actually merged information
re: William Hyde (Father of Samuel) with that of William Hyde of
Norwich, making it appear the same gentleman came to America and finally
expired at a very advanced age (100+ if I recall from AF).
With regard to Samuel Hyde and Edward Hyde, Earl of Clarendon, they
appear to have a mutual ancestor in Robert Hyde of Norbury (d.ca. 1528).
1. Robert Hyde of Norbury, d. 1528, m. 1) Margaret Holand;
2) or 3) Katherine Boydell
1. (by 1)) Hamnet Hyde, m. Margaret Warren
1. Robert Hyde, m. Jane Davenport
[from whom, Samuel Hyde, et al. - see prior post]
1. (by 2) or 3) Laurence Hyde, m. 1) Mary Hartgill;
m. 2) Anne Sibell
1. (by 2) Robert
2. Henry, m. Mary Langford
1. Edward Hyde, cr. Earl of Clarendon
The bulk of the above is from the Visitation of Cheshire (1580),
but the direct connection from Henry Hyde to Edward, Earl of Clarendon
is per the pedigree of Hyde from The Hyde Family, by Florence Hyde
(1967). Given the generations in this line which produced offspring by
later as opposed to earlier spouses in the line leading to Edward Hyde,
it is not improbable that it would have taken so few generations to
reach the birth of Edward Hyde ca. 1608, although it does raise the
possibility that a generation may have been skipped after Henry Hyde.
Good luck, and good hunting.
John
John Ravilious
>
> John,
>
> > BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
> > (GPS, 1999)
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Benjamin
Wednesday, November 28, 1999
Hi Benjamin -
the reference is to the Genealogical Publishing Co., in Baltimore,
Maryland.
John
Benjamin Hertzel
>U...@aol.com wrote:
> Unfortunately, I do not know what if any relation William Hyde of
>Norwich held with the Hydes of Norbury, co. Cheshire. In Hyde Genealogy
>(Albany, 1864), Reuben Walworth acknowledged the existence of the
>families of Samuel Hyde and of Jonathan Hyde, his brother, but stated
>(p. 1) that William Hyde _is not certainly known to have been connected
>with any of the Hyde families who came to this country from England.
>
> With regard to Samuel Hyde and Edward Hyde, Earl of Clarendon, they
>appear to have a mutual ancestor in Robert Hyde of Norbury (d.ca. 1528).
> The bulk of the above is from the Visitation of Cheshire (1580),
>but the direct connection from Henry Hyde to Edward, Earl of Clarendon
>is per the pedigree of Hyde from The Hyde Family, by Florence Hyde (1967).
Are any of these Hyde families related to Oliver Hyde (ca 1450-1516) of
South Denchworth, Berkshire? Oliver was the son of John and Alice
(Liddiard) Hyde. He married Ann, daughter of Thomas Lovingcott, and was
the father of six children: William (married to Margery Carter), Margaret,
Alice (married to John Yates), Anne, Thomas (married to Elizabeth Welles)
and John.
Any connection - any help at all - greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Benjamin
Chris & Tom Tinney, Sr.
Effigies twenty-five inches, Oliver Hyde, 1516,
FROM: Monumental Brasses of Berkshire
(14th to 17th Century), by Henry T. Morley,
page 98.
The "eminent Hyde family of Berkshire" is referred
to on page 282, among other pages, of The Victoria
History of the County of Berkshire, Vol. 2, . . .
The original estate of the HYDE family, from which
they took their name, was a hide of land in the manor
of Circourt generally called 'La Hyde de Southcote'.
To this they seem to have added by purchasing land
in the north of the parish, so that the manor of HYDE
was said in A.D. 1397 to be at North Denchworth.
They probably held their lands of the manors of Circourt
and South Denchworth till they themselves acquired those
manors; afterwards they are generally said to hold all
their lands of the Abbot of Abringdon. The HYDE
family claimed in the 17th Century to have been established
here since the days of Canute, but the first Hyde who is
known to have held land in South Denchworth is Warin,
who lived in the middle of the 13th century. . . .
A source in the History is HYDE DEEDS quoted
by Clarke. . . .
The HYDE OF LONGWORTH, is found in
THE LANDED GENTRY, going back to:
John de la Hyde (an estate in South Denchworth
conferred upon his ancestor, according to tradition,
by King Canute), died 13 July A.D. 1135, and
was survived by his son:
Ralph, (died 09 Sep A.D. 1156), leaving a son and heir:
1. John, called De Cella, from the Abbey's cell at
Wallingford, Abbot of St. Albans 1195-1214.
2. Gilbert, who left issue,
1. John
2. ROGER, HIS HEIR, OF WHOM PRESENTLY.
3. William
4. Fulk
Sir Roger de la Hyde (son of Gilbert, above), who
(commissioned in A.D. 1217 to enroll his relatives
and friends under the banner of the Earl Regent) in
A.D. 1234 is found holding the manor of La Hyde
(part of the Royal Honour of Wallingford).
He left issue, two sons:
1. RICHARD (SIR), OF WHOM PRESENTLY.
2. Roger (Sir)
Sir Richard de la Hyde (son of Sir Roger de la Hyde),
died 11 Jan 1278, left by his wife Phillipa, three sons:
1. Warren, who left two sons:
1. JOHN, HIS HEIR, OF WHOM PRESENTLY.
2. Peter
2. Richard (Sir).
3. Robert
John, (son of Warren, above); living A.D. 1302, left two sons:
Michael, and William de la Hyde, Lord also of the Manor of
Longworth-cum-Charney (adjoining La Hyde), living A.D. 1316,
whose son and heir was:
William Heygarston de la Hyde, died ca. A.D. 1361, who by his
wife, Petronilla, had, with other issue:
John "atte Hyde de Southdenchworth", living A.D. 1350,
"jam defunctus" A.D. 1407, having had issue:
John atte Hyde, of South Denchworth, who died 13 May 1416,
leaving a son:
John Hyde, heir of La Hyde, born ca. A.D. 1399;
died 14 July 1448; by his lst wife Graciana (living A.D. 1420),
he left a son:
John Hyde, of South Denchworth, Berkshire, England,
living A.D. 1447-8; married Alice or Agnes, daughter
of John Lidiard, of Glympton. She died 29 May 1478.
He died 19 Sep 1487, having had, with other issue:
Oliver Hyde, of South Denchworth, born A.D. 1461;
died 04 Oct 1516; married Agnes, (died 05 May 1523),
daughter and heir of Thomas Lovingcott, of Lovedays
and of Elmington, Oxfordshire, England . . .
There are variations from this point forth, as also noted
in connecting into your information. Variations are
found from BERRY'S PEDIGREES and as shown
on the old Archive Family Group Sheets now housed
at the Joseph Smith, Jr. Memorial Building in downtown
SLC, Utah.
This pedigree was worked on extensively in the past by
the deceased Lt. Col. Calvin I. Kephart, Ph.D, Arlington,
VA [USA] (connected intimately with The National
Genealogical Society - USA). Also, by The Jersey
John Hyde Association of Cincinnati, Ohio, for the recovery
of the estate of one John Hyde of New Jersey, believed
to be in the Bank of England, and amounting, it is said,
to sixty or seventy millions of dollars. They spent money,
time and effort and researched Hydes in England;
copy kept at the Historical Society Building of
Mt. Healthy, Hamilton County, Ohio, USA.
Respectfully yours,
Tom Tinney, Sr.
http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/~vctinney/homepage.htm#Here
Listed in: Who's Who In The West, 1998/1999
Who's Who In Genealogy and Heraldry,
[both editions]
-------------------------------
raymond l montgomery
some questions my good sir?
Individual 70 below is a peter Leigh of Lyme. There is also in the
ancestry of Jane lowe of MD whom married Henry sewell a peter Leigh of
Lyme He was born abt 1387.
do you have the leigh ancestry back to him and if so do you have his
ancestry with his wifes back at all?
Sorry i have not been able to help you on the other issues you requested.
Sincerely
RAY
>Friday, November 26, 1999
>
> As with many other participants, I am looking forward to the
>upcoming edition of Plantagenet Ancestry, as well as other forthcoming
>works (e.g. MCA). I do not know if the new edition of PA includes
>Samuel Hyde of Newton, Massachusetts, but [unless there is a serious
>flaw in the following table] his ancestry supports his inclusion.
>
> The source abbreviations used below:
>
> PA = Plantagenet Ancestry (1st ed.)
> BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
> (GPS, 1999)
> VC = The Visitation of Cheshire, 1580
>
> 1. Samuel Hyde, b.ca. 1610, Denton, Lancashire; m. 1630, Temperance
> [Crompton ?]; d. 12 Sep 1689, Newton, Massachusetts
>
> 2. William Hyde of Denton, b. ca. 1563, d. 1640
> 3. Eleanor Molineux, b. 1574
>
> 4. Robert Hyde of Norbury and Hyde, Cheshire, b. 1543, d. 22 Mar
>1614
> [BR]
> 5. Ann Arderne, first wife
> 6. John Molineux of New Hall [BR]
> 7. Anna Radcliffe [BR]
>
> 8. Robert Hyde, b. ca. 1522, d. 1571
> 9. Jane Davenport, b. ca. 1525, d. after 1566
> 12. Sir Richard Molyneux of Sefton, Sheriff of Lancashire ca. 1556,
> d. 3 Jan 1568/69
> 13. Eleanor Radcliffe
> 14. Richard Radcliffe of Langley, d. 1577 [BR]
> 15. Elizabeth Gerard, d. 1564
>
> 16. Hamnet Hyde of Norbury, d. after 1526 [BR]
> 17. Margaret Warren [BR]
> 24. Sir William Molyneux of Sefton, b. ca. 1481, d. 1548 [BR]
> 25. Jane Rugge, first wife
> 30. Sir Thomas Gerard of Kingsley and Bryn, b. 1488, k. at Berwick
> 7 Nov 1523 [PA, p. 113]
> 31. Margaret [Margery] Trafford, d. 10 May 1540 -
> descendant of Edward I [PA, p. 113 - pedigree of Gerard]
>
________________________________________________________________
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Tom
Sir Percival Leigh (b abt 1444 Cheshire,Lyme - d ?)
Joan Leigh (b abt 1477 - d aft 1557) m Richard (John) Tylden.
That's all I have on Percival Leigh himself. I will say that this line
leads to then-future US presidential candidate Samuel Tilden who lost to
Rutherford Hays (under the spectre of skulduggery). This same Samuel
Tilden founded the New York City Public Library and whose foundation
(Tilden Foundation) funds the library today.
The Leigh's were apparently a prominent family in 13th century Cheshire
and I think there's a whole book on nothing but Cheshire Leighs.
raymond l montgomery wrote:
>
> John Et all?
> some questions my good sir?
> Individual 70 below is a peter Leigh of Lyme. There is also in the
> ancestry of Jane lowe of MD whom married Henry sewell a peter Leigh of
> Lyme He was born abt 1387.
> do you have the leigh ancestry back to him and if so do you have his
> ancestry with his wifes back at all?
> Sorry i have not been able to help you on the other issues you requested.
>
> Sincerely
> RAY
> >Friday, November 26, 1999
> >
> > VC = The Visitation of Cheshire, 1580
> >
> > 34. Laurence Warren of Poynton, b. ca. 1480, d. 18 Sept 1530 [BR]
> > 35. Margaret Leigh of Lyme [BR, VC - Leigh of Lyme, p. 153]
> >
Kay Allen AG
Your Tildens are from Kent. I do not believe that they will connect with
Cheshire Tildens and Leighs. What is your source for this connections?
Kay Allen AG
Sutliff
Tom wrote:
Was hoping that some of the experts might have answered this. The surname of
the family at Lyme is LEGH rather than as spelled in yours and the other posts.
Also I cannot find the name Percival anywhere in this family. The predominant
male name was Piers which some have modernized to Peter, but those of this
period used Piers. I cannot find anything in the Visitations or Foster's Legh
pedigree of any with a daughter who married a Tylden/Tilden. The Piers who had
children born in the 1470's was Piers VI who as a 12 year old in 1467 married
Eleanor Savage of Rock Savage, Clifton, Cheshire. Their oldest child was Piers
VII born 1479 (see: Lady Newton, The House of Lyme from Its Foundation to the
End of the Eighteenth Century, (London, William Heinemann, 1917, p. 11).
Kay Allen's post suggested that Tilden to Legh may be inccorect. There was a
Leigh family in Thurleigh, Bedford, but I think the male line was extinct by
this period (hope someone will correct this if wrong). Without knowledge of
your sources, it is difficult to point your further research into this. Sorry
not to be of more positive help.
Best regards,
Henry Sutliff
John Steele Gordon
> I appear to have this Leigh in my wife's line also:
>
> Sir Percival Leigh (b abt 1444 Cheshire,Lyme - d ?)
> Joan Leigh (b abt 1477 - d aft 1557) m Richard (John) Tylden.
>
> That's all I have on Percival Leigh himself. I will say that this line
> leads to then-future US presidential candidate Samuel Tilden who lost to
> Rutherford Hays (under the spectre of skulduggery).
Well, it's more a case of the Republicans stealing more votes than the
Democrats did. It was the dirtiest presidential election in American
history, with plenty of blame to go around. Whole books have been
written on this election.
> This same Samuel
> Tilden founded the New York City Public Library and whose foundation
> (Tilden Foundation) funds the library today.
Not quite. When Tilden (a highly successful lawyer and investor as well
as a politician) died in 1886 his will left his entire estate (he had
never married) to a trust, the Tilden Trust, to establish a great public
library. His relatives promptly broke the will (he was a corporate and
trial lawyer, not a trusts and estates guy, obviously). One of the heirs
then gave $2,250,000 and Tilden's vast private library to the otherwise
empty trust. In 1895, the Tilden Trust merged with New York's two
leading libraries, the Astor Library, richly endowed by John Jacob
Astor, and the Lennox Library, equally richly endowed by James Lennox.
These formed "the New York Public Library, Astor, Tilden and Lennox
Foundations." Between 1901 and 1910 the city of New York built the
magnificent building on Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street (where, happily, I
will be going today to inspect the newly moved Local History and
Genealogy Division). Thus the city owns the building but the Foundation
owns the books. So while Tilden has a major place in the history of the
NYPL, the greatest library in the world not funded by a sovereign
government, he can hardly be called the founder.
Tilden's house on Grammercy Park, by the way, is now the National Arts
Club, and, if you can wangle an invitation, well worth a visit as a
relic of the gilded age. The bar has a Tiffany glass ceiling that will,
guaranteed, knock your socks off.
JSG
--
http://www.familyorigins.com/users/g/o/r/John-S-Gordon
Francisco Antonio Doria
>Tilden's house on Grammercy Park, by the way, is now the National Arts
>Club, and, if you can wangle an invitation, well worth a visit as a
>relic of the gilded age. The bar has a Tiffany glass ceiling that will,
>guaranteed, knock your socks off.
You know that our Imperial Palace here at my hometown Petrópolis is a
rather modest building? And it was the home of a Capetian prince, our
late emperor Dom Pedro II.
chico doria
Alan B. Wilson
[snip]
>
> The source abbreviations used below:
>
> PA = Plantagenet Ancestry (1st ed.)
> BR = British Roots of Maryland Families, by Robert W. Barnes
> (GPS, 1999)
> VC = The Visitation of Cheshire, 1580
>
> 1. Samuel Hyde, b.ca. 1610, Denton, Lancashire; m. 1630, Temperance
> [Crompton ?]; d. 12 Sep 1689, Newton, Massachusetts
>
> 2. William Hyde of Denton, b. ca. 1563, d. 1640
> 3. Eleanor Molineux, b. 1574
>
> 4. Robert Hyde of Norbury and Hyde, Cheshire, b. 1543, d. 22 Mar 1614
> [BR]
> 5. Ann Arderne, first wife
[snip]
I know that in "The ancestry of Lorenzo Ackley," edited by Jacobus,
1960, no parentage is ascribed to the Samuel Hyde who died 12 Sep 1698 in
Cambridge Village (now Newton), or his brother, Jonathan, with whom he
came from London to Boston in April 1639.
This descent certainly cannot be inferred from Robert W. Barnes
recent book "British roots of Maryland families.
Does anyone know of any evidence bearing on the parentage of Samuel
Hyde of Newton?
--
Alan B. Wilson
abwi...@uclink4.berkeley.edu