Women's use of surnames
Scott Williams
take the surname of her husband, dropping her maiden name? I ask this
because I've found (like many others) rather frustrating dead ends of only a
given name for many wives in many older documents and sources...and some not
so old. Thanks for any clarification.
Scott Williams
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Lars Jørgen Helbo
<2000062005291...@hotmail.com>:
>Is there a particular time frame when it became customary for a woman to
>take the surname of her husband, dropping her maiden name? I ask this
>because I've found (like many others) rather frustrating dead ends of
>only a given name for many wives in many older documents and
>sources...and some not so old. Thanks for any clarification.
It depends on the country.
Here in Denmark it became a custom around 1880 to 1890, and the custom was
dropped again around 1970.
--
Lars Jørgen Helbo <la...@helbo.com>
http://mrohs-helbo.homepage.dk
http://haurumsall.cjb.net
http://www.salldata.dk
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Is there a particular time frame when it became customary for a woman to
> take the surname of her husband, dropping her maiden name? I ask this
> because I've found (like many others) rather frustrating dead ends of only a
> given name for many wives in many older documents and sources...and some not
> so old. Thanks for any clarification.
It depends on the country, and even region. I have seen it in England
from almost as early as surnames were used, but in 19th century France,
it was stil not the practice, and never was in Iceland.
taf
hesp...@my-deja.com
names" until well into the 20th century. It may still be so as far as I
know. Different surnames for married couples on passports
caused some problems for southern Italian immigrants entering the U.S.
a few generations back.
hesperius
In article <394F98C...@interfold.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
PDel...@aol.com
Madame René Dupont, or even more bureaucratic, Baker, josephine, ép
(wife/spouse) Dupont, but socially she is known as Mme Dupont or Josephine
dupont.
PG
Carl Stevenson
As someone who lived in France for several years, married a frenchwoman and
have several relations in France, all, and I repeat all, of my female
relations in France took their husbands name after marriage. Maybe some
noble, or well known authors don't do so but that is not the common rule!!!
Be careful lest you mislead folks in their genealogy research! Yes the
marriage is entered into the civil records under the maiden name, but
legally they adopt their husbands name. For example on our Livret de
Famille and her passport my wifes name appears as her married name, not her
maiden name!!
Yours sincerely,
Carl Stevenson
----------
From: PDel...@aol.com
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Women's use of surnames
Date: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 8:39 PM
In France , a woman retains, legally, her maiden name, thus Josephine
Baker,
Madame Reni Dupont, or even more bureaucratic, Baker, josephine, ip
(wife/spouse) Dupont, but socially she is known as Mme Dupont or Josephine
dupont.
PG
----------
Andrew Hope
Scott Williams wrote in message <2000062005291...@hotmail.com>...
>Is there a particular time frame when it became customary for a woman to
>take the surname of her husband, dropping her maiden name?
I once heard it argued that historically women in England did not have
surnames,
only men had surnames. The only question was which man's family name a woman
used. A glance at any herald's visitation supports this interpretation. A
wife is usually entered as 'the daughter of x', even when x's given name is
not known or recorded. Daughters usually appear without family names; as
opposed to sons who usually have them.
Is there any evidence (apart from the occasional unacknowledged illegitmate
child taking its mother's family name in the absence of any other) which
contradicts this?
Andrew Hope
Scott Williams
From: hesp...@my-deja.comDate: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:41:35 GMT
In Southern Italy married women retained legal use of their "maiden names"
until well into the 20th century. It may still be so as far as I know.
Different surnames for married couples on passports caused some problems for
southern Italian immigrants entering the U.S. a few generations back.
hesperius
<<response>>
I know this to be correct, and to this day married women hold on to their
maiden names...I live in Italy. Thanks for the response, and thanks to our
friend in Denmark who helped clarify their usage of this custom.
From: "Andrew Hope" <ho...@globalnet.co.uk>
To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
Subject: Re: Women's use of surnames
Andrew Hope
<<response>>
Thanks for the information, Andrew. This is exactly what I was seeking. I
have seen the same custom carried to the colonies. One other interpretation
I have read about (please, I don't want anyone to take offense to this; I'm
not trying to be chauvinistic) is that the woman was considered to be the
property of her father until marraige, thenceforth property of her husband.
I don't mean this to lead to a discussion of dowries as reimbursement to the
family, though this may be a factor in the interpretation. As far as any
contradictory or alternative theories, I know of nothing.
PDel...@aol.com
precise, incepted by me when i asked whether women were, once married,
legally the bearers of their husband's name....It was resolved by some
barrister who said that when married,a woman can adopt any surname she
wants!!!!
PG
Gordon Johnson
Williams) wrote:
>Is there a particular time frame when it became customary for a woman to
>take the surname of her husband, dropping her maiden name? I ask this
>because I've found (like many others) rather frustrating dead ends of only a
>given name for many wives in many older documents and sources...and some not
>so old. Thanks for any clarification.
>
>Scott Williams
*** In Scotland the normal practice in past centuries was for a woman
to always have her own (birth) name, and you will see this shown on
most gravestones even today.
In day-to-day life, she would be , e.g. Jeannie Brown to her friends,
and only Mrs. White in formal occasions.
In church registers, a child would be baptised and recorded as, e.g.
"John, son of James White and his spouse Jeannie Brown."
This tradition is retained to some extent in Scottish civil
registration, where a married woman's name is given as: "Jeannie
White, m.s. Brown" [m.s.= maiden surname].
Gordon Johnson:
Retired public librarian;
professional genealogist and historical writer since 1996;
specialist in pre-1700 Scottish records.
Suzanne Doig
This doesn't only apply to women - people in the UK may be known
'legally' by any name they wish, so long as there is no intent to
defraud. So as you say, it is entirely a matter of choice as to which
surname a married woman (or man, for that matter) chooses. One can
change name by deed poll or public declaration, but this is not
required.
In Japan, IIRC, a married couple must have the same surname, but they
may choose to take the woman's name (although this is very rare).
Suzanne
DENISE FISCHER
research. Men may also. All that seems to be necessary is to go to the
Department of Motor Vehicles and change your name there. Then change it in
all other places. As long as this is not done to defraud anyone it is
legal. After all, no questions are asked when women go in to get a new
license. I was never asked if I had actually married someone with that last
name. In fact no one even asked if I had gotten married. I'm not an
attorney so I don't know the legalities, but this is supposedly based on
English Common Law.
Denise Fischer
Gordon Johnson
(Suzanne Doig) wrote:
>On 21 Jun 2000 01:28:03 -0700, PDel...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>In England now,a recent debate in one of the 'Dailies', the Mail, to be
>>precise, incepted by me when i asked whether women were, once married,
>>legally the bearers of their husband's name....It was resolved by some
>>barrister who said that when married,a woman can adopt any surname she
>>wants!!!!
>
>This doesn't only apply to women - people in the UK may be known
>'legally' by any name they wish, so long as there is no intent to
>defraud. So as you say, it is entirely a matter of choice as to which
>surname a married woman (or man, for that matter) chooses. One can
>change name by deed poll or public declaration, but this is not
>required.
*** In the UK, you have to watch your terminology. The law of Scotland
is historically different from the law of England. In Scotland, there
is no such thing as deed poll. It has always been the case in Scotland
that you can change your name simply by telling all your friends etc.,
although you have a legal duty to inform your creditors!
Gordon.
Carol Brown
birth certificate and one other document of identification, such as a
marriage certificate.
Carol
----- Original Message -----
From: "DENISE FISCHER" <deni...@home.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2000 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Women's use of surnames
Robert Thompson
In the USA, the ability to have a legal name change depends on state law. I
know that you can have your name changed as part of the process of recording a
marriage. Apart from marriage, there can be precise rules that must be followed
for a legal name change. In Ohio, for example, one must file with the county
probate court, have a legal notice published, and, after the requisite period of
time (30 days), appear before a magistrate and show cause why the name change be
granted.
Once you have an official copy of the probate court name change order, or
marriage certificate, depending on how the name change came about, you can take
that to the Social Security Administration and apply for a Social Security card
with the existing number but with the new name. With the new Social Security
card, the court order/marriage certificate and a copy of your birth certificate,
you can then get a new state ID (drivers license or a non drivers ID). If you
own property, either real estate or a motor vehicle, you have still more steps
to do. Be prepared to have a copy of the court order/marriage certificate when
dealing with existing creditors, your bank, school, employer, etc. While you
are doing all of this work, plan on also updating or writing a new will, using
the new name.
It isn't always as easy as saying to your friends and creditors, "I now have a
new name."
Respectfully,
Robert Thompson
Francisco Antonio Doria
>It isn't always as easy as saying to your friends and creditors, "I now
>have a
>new name."
In Brazil: you go to the notary where your birth register was made, and
ask to add a surname to your name. You must state the reasons (is in your
family, or you are known in the community with that surname). Prove it
with documents - family papers, or whatever. After 30-40 days you get it.
Total cost: abt. $ 20.
Of course you then must change your ids, but that's another matter.
chico
mes...@my-deja.com
Please click website for more info.
World Genealogy Family Search
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/seedwoman/Ababa.html
In article <396922DB...@columbus.rr.com>,
> It isn't always as easy as saying to your friends and creditors, "I
now have a
> new name."
>