Additional Royal Descents For Anne Mauleverer & Richard Saltonstall
Brad Verity
not in either Gary Boyd Roberts' RD600 or Douglas Richardson's PA3, so
I'm setting them out for any comments.
>From Edward III:
1) John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster (1340-1399), who had
2) Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland (c.1379-1440), who had
3) Elizabeth Ferrers, Lady Greystoke, who had
4) Anne Greystoke (d. 1477) m. Sir Ralph Bigod of Settrington
(1410-1461), who had
5) Anne Bigod (d. 1531) m. William Conyers of Sockburn (d. 1490), who
had
6) Anne Conyers (d. before 1522) m. abt 1492 Sir William Mauleverer of
Wothersome (d. 1551), who had
7) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1541) m. 1524 Alice Markenfield (d. 1553), and
was ancestor of Richard Saltonstall of Mass. & Anne Mauleverer of N.J.
>From Edward I*:
1) Elizabeth, Countess of Hereford, who had
2) Eleanor de Bohun, Countess of Ormond, who had
3) Pernel Butler, Lady Talbot, who (probably) had
4) Elizabeth Talbot, Lady Grey of Wilton, who had
5) Margaret Grey, Lady Darcy, who had
6) Philip Darcy, 6th Lord Darcy m. Eleanor Fitzhugh (desc. King John)
and had
7) Elizabeth Darcy m. Sir James Strangways and had
8) Eleanor Darcy m. Edmund Mauleverer of Wothersome (d. 1493/4), and
had
9) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1501) m. Joan Vavasour and had
10) Sir William Mauleverer (d. 1551) m. Anne Conyers (number 6 above)
Cheers, ------------Brad
Don Stone
> If these have already been covered, apologies, but they are curiously
> not in either Gary Boyd Roberts' RD600 or Douglas Richardson's PA3, so
> I'm setting them out for any comments.
>
>>From Edward III:
> 1) John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster (1340-1399), who had
[etc.]
These are not in RD600 because it supplies only the "best" descent (from the
most recent monarch, and, I think, via the older child when there are
descents via more than one child).
-- Don Stone
Brad Verity
>
> These are not in RD600 because it supplies only the "best" descent (from the
> most recent monarch, and, I think, via the older child when there are
> descents via more than one child).
Thanks for the explanation, Don. So the lines themselves are valid,
it's the structure of RD600 that kept them out of that work. Still
doesn't explain why they aren't in PA3, which has a structure
incorporating multiple lines of descent for each immigrant, but it's a
relief that the lines are valid.
Cheers, -------Brad
Leo van de Pas
Many thanks for this, a few observations in between:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <royald...@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 5:03 AM
Subject: Additional Royal Descents For Anne Mauleverer & Richard Saltonstall
> If these have already been covered, apologies, but they are curiously
> not in either Gary Boyd Roberts' RD600 or Douglas Richardson's PA3, so
> I'm setting them out for any comments.
>
>>From Edward III:
> 1) John of Gaunt, Duke of Lancaster (1340-1399), who had
> 2) Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland (c.1379-1440), who had
> 3) Elizabeth Ferrers, Lady Greystoke, who had
> 4) Anne Greystoke (d. 1477) m. Sir Ralph Bigod of Settrington
> (1410-1461), who had
> 5) Anne Bigod (d. 1531) m. William Conyers of Sockburn (d. 1490), who
> had
> 6) Anne Conyers (d. before 1522) m. abt 1492 Sir William Mauleverer of
> Wothersome (d. 1551), who had
=======Cahiers de Saint Louis Page 921 gives this Anne Conyers as not
married. There is a sources list but I cannot tell which source applies to
her. See further below
> 7) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1541) m. 1524 Alice Markenfield (d. 1553), and
> was ancestor of Richard Saltonstall of Mass. & Anne Mauleverer of N.J.
>
>>From Edward I*:
> 1) Elizabeth, Countess of Hereford, who had
> 2) Eleanor de Bohun, Countess of Ormond, who had
> 3) Pernel Butler, Lady Talbot, who (probably) had
> 4) Elizabeth Talbot, Lady Grey of Wilton, who had
> 5) Margaret Grey, Lady Darcy, who had
> 6) Philip Darcy, 6th Lord Darcy m. Eleanor Fitzhugh (desc. King John)
> and had
> 7) Elizabeth Darcy m. Sir James Strangways and had
======is nr 8 a typo as Eleanor Darcy? Shouldn't she be a Strangways? See
below for more
> 8) Eleanor Darcy m. Edmund Mauleverer of Wothersome (d. 1493/4), and
> had
> 9) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1501) m. Joan Vavasour and had
> 10) Sir William Mauleverer (d. 1551) m. Anne Conyers (number 6 above)
>
======Cahiers de Saint Louis seems to muddle up generations 8 to 10
Let's just ignore 8
Cahiers page 937 gives
(your 9) William Mauleverer, as father of Sir William Mauleverer who died 11
August 1551, he married (1) NN (maybe Anne Conyers?) and (2) January 1522
Joan Strangways, widow of John Bigod. Joan died 15 November 1546, and was a
daughter of James Strrangways and his first wife Alice Le Scrope.
You marked off Anne Conyers as having died before 1522 this fits with Sir
William Mauleverer marrying in (2nd) in January 1522, _but_ Cahiers said
that Anne did not marry, but this may well be incorrect.
Let's go back to Sir James Strangways (nr.7)
Burke's Peerage 1938 page 737
Eleanor Darcy married Sir James Strangways and says "they had issue" and
then gives only one son.
By combining sources I have
Sir James Strangways died before 20 August 1488, he married (1) before 20
November 1431 Elizabeth Darcy born about 1417 died before November 1461; he
married (2) Elizabeth Eure
children (must/should be more) 1st marriage
1.Sir Richard Strangways, died 13 April 1488, married (1) Elizabeth Nevill
(2) Joan Aston
2.James Strangways will proven 2 June 1508 he married ANN CONYERS died after
21 March 1517, her will proven in 1518 (I have no parents for her) I have
two children James and Cecily
2nd marriage
3.Felicia Strangways married to William Aske (they are ancestors of Prince
Charles)
Can anyone clear up some of these discrepancies?
With best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Canberra, Australia
.
WJho...@aol.com
leov...@netspeed.com.au writes:
<< > 6) Anne Conyers (d. before 1522) m. abt 1492 Sir William Mauleverer of
> Wothersome (d. 1551), who had
=======Cahiers de Saint Louis Page 921 gives this Anne Conyers as not
married. There is a sources list but I cannot tell which source applies to
her. See further below
> 7) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1541) m. 1524 Alice Markenfield (d. 1553), and
> was ancestor of Richard Saltonstall of Mass. & Anne Mauleverer of N.J. >>
I agree with Leo that this section, that is Robert Mauleverer as a son to
Anne Conyers and then married to Alice Markenfield and thus parents to Dorothy
Markenfield, is possibly problematic. I'd like to see better documentation on
it.
As it stands, we have a situation where a woman marries for the first time
well into her 30s if not 40s to a man at least 10 if not 20 years her junior.
If Alice Markenfield is to be the daughter of Ninian Markenfield of
Markenfield Hall, Ripon, Yorks. by his purported wife Dorothy Gascoigne who, Dorothy,
died 4 Mar 1585/6.
Ninian outlived his wife by some 27 years and I don't wonder that he may have
been married again and that Alice just might be a daughter by a later
marriage.
Again Robert Mauleverer may be a son of William's by an earlier marriage.
Will Johnson
John Higgins
#6 in the first line, Anne Conyers, is said in at least two Mauleverer
pedigrees to be a daughter of Sir John (not William) of Sockburn, and is
also called Jane. Under either name, I can't locate her in any Conyers
pedigree with a Mauleverer marriage.
#8 in the second line, Eleanor Strangways [not Darcy], is mentioned with the
stated Mauleverer marriage in at least two pedigrees of the Strangways
family. My information on the Mauleverer family is pretty limited, but one
[probably unreliable] pedigree appears to combine your generations 8 and 9,
saying that Edmund Mauleverer mar. Elinor or Joan Vavasoiur of Haselwood,
and their son Sir William was the one who married Anne [or Jane] Conyers.
These lines do appear to make sense, but I'd be interested to know the
sources for the Mauleverer family and for the identification and placement
of the Conyers daughter.
A related note: Richardson's RPA says that Robert Mauleverer and Alice
Markenfield were "related in the 4th degree of kindred". One set of Alice's
great-grandparents were Sir John Conyers of HORNBY [not Sockburn] and
Margery Darcy. Margery was the sister of Elizabeth who mar. Sir James
Strangways, who were great-great-grandparents of Robert Mauleverer, based on
the version of the Mauleverer descent in your second line. So we have the
following relationship:
Margery Darcy m. Conyers of Hornby
Conyers m. Markenfield
Markenfield m. Gascoigne
Alice Markenfield
Elizabeth Darcy m. Strangways
Strangways m. Mauleverer
Mauleverer m. Woodsome
Mauleverer m. Vavasour
Mauleverer m. Conyers of Sockburn
Robert Mauleverer
I'm a bit hazy on the specifics of consaguinity - does this qualify as a
4th-degree relationship?
Depending on the placement of the Conyers daughter, there is perhaps a
relationship on the Conyers side as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <royald...@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:03 PM
Subject: Additional Royal Descents For Anne Mauleverer & Richard Saltonstall
Brad Verity
Comments interspersed.
"Leo van de Pas" wrote:
> > 5) Anne Bigod (d. 1531) m. William Conyers of Sockburn (d. 1490), who
> > had
> > 6) Anne Conyers (d. before 1522) m. abt 1492 Sir William Mauleverer of
> > Wothersome (d. 1551), who had
> =======Cahiers de Saint Louis Page 921 gives this Anne Conyers as not
> married. There is a sources list but I cannot tell which source applies to
> her. See further below
I don't know which sources Cahiers used, but one may be the same as my
source (for Anne as daughter of William Conyers of Sockburn and Anne
Bigod). The Conyers of Sockburn 1558 Visitation pedigree was provided
by Sir George Conyers of Sockburn to Norroy King of Arms Lawrence
Dalton, and is printed in 'Visitations of the North' 1 (Surtees Soc.
122, 1912), pp. 136-142. It is a particularly detailed pedigree, with
quite a few supporting evidences. The relevant entry is:
"Wylliam Conyers weddyd Anne, doughtre to Raufe Bygot of Settryngton,
knight, and had issue Chrystopher, Raufe the ijd, George, Robert,
Roger, Rychard and Cutberte, late sheryf of the busshopryke; Anne the j
doughtre, Marye, Margaret, and Agnes the iijth doughtre."
Note that none of the above children are assigned spouses (save for son
and heir Christopher in the following entry), but at least one of them
(youngest son Cuthbert Conyers) did indeed marry, so it's likely that
no given spouses is not supposed to indicate that all of the above
children were unmarried.
> ======is nr 8 a typo as Eleanor Darcy? Shouldn't she be a Strangways? See
> below for more
> > 8) Eleanor Darcy m. Edmund Mauleverer of Wothersome (d. 1493/4), and
> > had
Yes, indeed, that is my mistake. Elizabeth Darcy and Sir James
Strangways were parents of
8) Eleanor Strangways, who married Edmund Mauleverer of Wothersome, who
died about 1493/4 (will dated 7 October 1488, proved 29 January 1494),
son of Sir Robert Mauleverer of Wothersome (dvp by 1463) and his wife
Joan (parentage unknown). The Mauleverers were lower on the gentry
social scale than the Strangwayses, and were eager for the match, which
is attested to in a letter that Edmund Mauleverer, uncle of the groom,
wrote later to his nephew, reminding the latter that he had prevented a
marriage between him and a daughter of John of Thwaytes, although 300
marcs had been proffered as her marriage portion, in order to make the
match of his nephew with "my right worshipfulle nece, doghter of my
reuerent and fulle worshipfulle maister, Syr Jamys Strangways, knyght."
[William Brown, 'Ingleby Arncliffe' in 'Yorkshire Archaeological
Journal' Vol. 16 (1902), p. 170 n. 1.] The Mauleverer/Strangways
marriage took place about 1454, when lands were settled on the couple
by Edmund's father and grandfather. [Ibid., p. 191.] In his will,
Edmund Mauleverer of Wothersome makes his "wyfe Elyenor" his principal
executor. [Ibid., p. 224.] The marriage is also confirmed by the
Strangways pedigree in the 1480-1500 Visitation ['Visitation of the
North' 3 (Surtees Soc. 144, 1930), p. 107], where a daughter of James
Strangways and Elizabeth Darcy is given as "Aleonora nupta Edmundo
Mauleurier".
> > 9) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1501) m. Joan Vavasour and had
> > 10) Sir William Mauleverer (d. 1551) m. Anne Conyers (number 6 above)
> >
> ======Cahiers de Saint Louis seems to muddle up generations 8 to 10
> Let's just ignore 8
> Cahiers page 937 gives
> (your 9) William Mauleverer, as father of Sir William Mauleverer who died 11
> August 1551, he married (1) NN (maybe Anne Conyers?) and (2) January 1522
> Joan Strangways, widow of John Bigod. Joan died 15 November 1546, and was a
> daughter of James Strrangways and his first wife Alice Le Scrope.
This is a muddle-up on the part of Cahiers. William Brown, in his
thorough 1902 article on the Mauleverers [YAJ Vol. 16], gives a
detailed pedigree of the family, starting with Robert Mauleverer in the
beginning of the 14th century, and ending with Thomas Mauleverer
(1718-1785). The parents of Sir William Mauleverer of Wothersome (born
by 1471; died 10 August 1551) were Robert Mauleverer of Wothersome
(died 10 March 1496) and his wife Joan, daughter of Sir Henry Vavasour
of Hazlewood & Joan Gascoigne. This is proven by Robert's IPM, taken
at York Castle 24 Oct. 1501, in which his heir was returned as his son
William, age 30 and upwards.
Cahiers is correct about Sir William's second wife Joan Strangways.
She was the daughter of Sir James Strangways of West Harsley (d. 16
Dec. 1521) and Alice Scrope of Masham. Joan married 1st at West
Harsley (licence 20 January) 1489, John Bigod of Settrington and
Bainton, who died by 1515. She married 2nd at Wothersome (licence 7
November) 1522, Sir William Mauleverer. In the spring of 1523-4 she
and Sir William had to get a Papal dispensation to legalize their
marriage as they were related in the third and fourth degrees, which is
further proof of Sir William's descent from Eleanor Strangways:
Sir James Strangways and Elizabeth Darcy had a son (A1) and a daughter
(B1),
A1) Sir Richard Strangways of West Harsley (d. 1488), who had
A2) Sir James Strangways of West Harsley (d. 1521), who had
A3) Joan Strangways (d. 1546) m. Sir William Mauleverer
B1) Eleanor Strangways (d. after 1494) m. Edmund Mauleverer, who had
B2) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1496), who had
B3) Sir William Mauleverer (d. 1551) m. Joan Strangways
Joan Strangways, Dame Mauleverer, died 15 November 1546, and was buried
at Bardsey on 26 November. Sir William died 10 August 1551, was buried
at Bardsey 13 August, and his IPM was taken on 20 September 1551.
> You marked off Anne Conyers as having died before 1522
Because Sir william married again in November 1522.
> this fits with Sir
> William Mauleverer marrying in (2nd) in January 1522, _but_ Cahiers said
> that Anne did not marry, but this may well be incorrect.
I think it is incorrect. The evidence for the marriage, summed up by
Brown [YAJ Vol. 16, p. 194]: "On May 28, 7 Henry VII. (1492), Edmund
M.[auleverer, grandfather, died 1494], esq., granted to John Vavasour,
Richard Goldisburgh, John Hopton, Peter Bygod, Thomas Crawthorne, and
Edmund Thwaytes, certain lands, etc., in Ynggylby near Arnclyff, the
manor of Daylle Town, and lands in Bysshopton and Seynt Eleyn Awkland,
in Durham, 'ad intencionem et effectum quarundam indenturarum maritagii
inter dictum Edmundum M. et Robertum M.[auleverer, father, died 1496]
ex una parte, et Annam Conyers ex altera parte confectarum.' On the
authority apparently of this deed he is said to have married Anne,
daughter of William Conyers of Sockburn, and Anne his widow. This is
very probable, although there is no absolute proof of the fact. As I
have not been able to find any further mention of her it is likely she
died early, although as far as I can discover all his children were by
his first wife." The date of 1492 works well with the Conyers of
Sockburn chronology, with William Conyers of Sockburn, the bride's
father, dying on 8 September 1490, and his widow Anne Bigod surviving
until 1531. The pedigree of Mauleverer of Wothersome in the 1563
Visitation of Yorkshire (H.S.P. 16, 1881, p. 202) gives the wife of Sir
William and mother of his children as "Jane daughter of Conyers of
Sokeborne". So the family knew they were descended from the Conyerses
of Sockburn, they simply confused the first name (Joan/Jane) of Sir
William's second wife with that of his first (Anne).
> Let's go back to Sir James Strangways (nr.7)
> Burke's Peerage 1938 page 737
> Eleanor Darcy married Sir James Strangways and says "they had issue" and
> then gives only one son.
> By combining sources I have
> Sir James Strangways died before 20 August 1488, he married (1) before 20
> November 1431 Elizabeth Darcy born about 1417 died before November 1461; he
> married (2) Elizabeth Eure
> children (must/should be more) 1st marriage
> 1.Sir Richard Strangways, died 13 April 1488, married (1) Elizabeth Nevill
> (2) Joan Aston
> 2.James Strangways will proven 2 June 1508 he married ANN CONYERS died after
> 21 March 1517, her will proven in 1518 (I have no parents for her) I have
> two children James and Cecily
> 2nd marriage
> 3.Felicia Strangways married to William Aske (they are ancestors of Prince
> Charles)
Here is a full list of the children of Sir James Strangways of West
Harsley, Speaker of the House of Commons 1461, which are all laid out
in the Strangways pedigree of the 1480-1500 Visitation of the North
(Surtees Soc. 144, 1930), pp. 106-109:
Sir James married 1st, Elizabeth Darcy, and had 11 sons and 5
daughters:
1) Sir Richard Strangways, son and heir, married Elizabeth Neville
2) James Strangways of Ormsby and Sneton, married Anne Conyers,
daughter of Robert Conyers of Ormsby
3) William Strangways, died in infancy
4) Philip Strangways
5) George Strangways, a cleric
6) Christopher Strangways
7) Henry Strangways
8) John Strangways
9) Robert Strangways
10) Thomas Strangways, died in infancy
11) Thomas Strangways
1) Margaret Strangways, married 1st, John Ingleby of Ripley; married
2nd, Richard, Lord Welles and Willoughby
2) Eleanor Strangways, married Edmund Mauleverer of Wothersome
3) Joan Strangways, died young
4) Joan Strangways, died unmarried
5) Elizabeth Strangways, married Marmaduke Clervaux of Croft
Sir James married 2nd, Elizabeth Eure, and had further issue, 2 sons
and 1 daughter:
12) Ralph Strangways, died young
13) Edward Strangways, doctor of the law
6) Felice Strangways, married William Aske of Aske
> Can anyone clear up some of these discrepancies?
Hope this helps.
Cheers, ----------Brad
Brad Verity
Comments interspersed.
"John Higgins" wrote:
> #6 in the first line, Anne Conyers, is said in at least two Mauleverer
> pedigrees to be a daughter of Sir John (not William) of Sockburn, and is
> also called Jane. Under either name, I can't locate her in any Conyers
> pedigree with a Mauleverer marriage.
See my comments to Leo's post. There was no Sir John Conyers of
Sockburn. Per their 1558 Visitation pedigree, the relevant generations
were:
1) Sir Christopher Conyers of Sockburn 9d. 13 Mar. 1487) m. Mary Eure
(d. 16 Mar. 1470)
2) William Conyers of Sockburn (d. 8 Sep. 1490) m. Anne Bigod (d. 9
Jan. 1531)
3) Christopher Conyers of Sockburn m. Anne Markenfield
4) Thomas Conyers of Sockburn (d. June 1520) m. Margaret Ratcliffe
5) Sir George Conyers of Sockburn, living 1558
> #8 in the second line, Eleanor Strangways [not Darcy], is mentioned with the
> stated Mauleverer marriage in at least two pedigrees of the Strangways
> family. My information on the Mauleverer family is pretty limited, but one
> [probably unreliable] pedigree appears to combine your generations 8 and 9,
> saying that Edmund Mauleverer mar. Elinor or Joan Vavasoiur of Haselwood,
> and their son Sir William was the one who married Anne [or Jane] Conyers.
See my responses to Leo's post.
> These lines do appear to make sense, but I'd be interested to know the
> sources for the Mauleverer family and for the identification and placement
> of the Conyers daughter.
Again, given in my responses to Leo's post.
> A related note: Richardson's RPA says that Robert Mauleverer and Alice
> Markenfield were "related in the 4th degree of kindred". One set of Alice's
> great-grandparents were Sir John Conyers of HORNBY [not Sockburn] and
> Margery Darcy. Margery was the sister of Elizabeth who mar. Sir James
> Strangways, who were great-great-grandparents of Robert Mauleverer, based on
> the version of the Mauleverer descent in your second line. So we have the
> following relationship:
>
> Margery Darcy m. Conyers of Hornby
> Conyers m. Markenfield
> Markenfield m. Gascoigne
> Alice Markenfield
>
> Elizabeth Darcy m. Strangways
> Strangways m. Mauleverer
> Mauleverer m. Woodsome
> Mauleverer m. Vavasour
> Mauleverer m. Conyers of Sockburn
> Robert Mauleverer
>
> I'm a bit hazy on the specifics of consaguinity - does this qualify as a
> 4th-degree relationship?
I don't know for certain. Does the following?
Joan Beaufort, Countess of Westmorland had two daughters (A1 & B1) from
her first marriage and another daughter (C1) from her second:
A1) Elizabeth Ferrers, Lady Greystoke (1393-1434), had
A2) Anne Greystoke, Dame Bigod (d. 1477), who had
A3) Anne Bigod (d. 1531) m. William Conyers of Sockburn (d. 1490), and
had
A4) Anne Conyers (d. by 1522) m. Sir William Mauleverer (d. 1551) and
had
A5) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1541) m. Alice Markenfield (number B6 & C5
below)
B1) Mary Ferrers, Lady Neville of Oversley (1394-1458), had
B2) John Neville of Oversley (d. 1482), who had
B3) Joan Neville m. Sir William Gascoigne (d. 1463), and had
B4) Sir William Gascoigne (c.1450-1487) m. Margaret Percy (number C3
below), and had
B5) Dorothy Gascoigne m. Sir Ninian Markenfield (d. 1528), and had
B6) Alice Markenfield (d. 1553) m. Robert Mauleverer (number A5 above)
C1) Eleanor Neville, Countess of Northumberland (d. 1472), had
C2) Henry Percy, 3rd Earl of Northumberland (1421-1461), who had
C3) Margaret Percy m. Sir William Gascoigne (c. 1450-1487, number B4
above), and had
C4) Dorothy Gascoigne m. Sir Ninian Markenfield (d. 1528), and had
C5) Alice Markenfield (d. 1553) m. Robert Mauleverer (number A5 above)
> Depending on the placement of the Conyers daughter, there is perhaps a
> relationship on the Conyers side as well.
The Conyerses of Sockburn, by the 15th century, were fairly distantly
related to the Conyerses of Hornby. Maybe there's a connection thru
Mary Eure, wife of Sir Christopher Conyers of Sockburn?
Cheers, ---------Brad
Brad Verity
> I'm a bit hazy on the specifics of consaguinity - does this qualify as a
> 4th-degree relationship?
Actually, I think the below is probably the fourth degree relationship
referred to in the Mauleverer/Markenfield dispensation. Bummer, as it
doesn't confirm either the Strangways or Conyers of Sockburn/Bigod
ancestry.
Sir William Gascoigne of Gawthorpe married Margaret Clarell, and had a
son (A1) and a daughter (B1):
A1) William Gascoigne (dvp 1463) m. Joan Neville of Oversley, and had
A2) Sir William Gascoigne (c.1450-1487) m. Margaret Percy, and had
A3) Dorothy Gascoigne m. Sir Ninian Markenfield (d. 1528), and had
A4) Alice Markenfield (d. 1553) m. Robert Mauleverer
B1) Joan Gascoigne m. Sir Henry Vavasour of Hazlewood, and had
B2) Joan Vavasour m. Robert Mauleverer (d. 1496), and had
B3) Sir William Mauleverer (c.1471-1551) m. Anne Conyers, and had
B4) Robert Mauleverer (d. 1541) m. Alice Markenfield
Cheers, -------Brad
Brad Verity
> If Alice Markenfield is to be the daughter of Ninian Markenfield of
> Markenfield Hall, Ripon, Yorks. by his purported wife Dorothy Gascoigne who, Dorothy,
> died 4 Mar 1585/6.
Dear Will,
The death date of Dorothy Gascoigne is not known. We do know her son
Thomas Markenfield was age 14 and more at the death of his father Sir
Ninian Markenfield in 1528, so born about 1513/14, and that Sir Ninian
received dispensation to marry his second wife Eleanor Clifford on 18
May 1526. So Dorothy Gascoigne, Dame Markenfield died at some point
between 1513 and 1526.
> Ninian outlived his wife by some 27 years and I don't wonder that he may have
> been married again and that Alice just might be a daughter by a later
> marriage.
The only wives Sir Ninian mentions in his will, dated 1 October 1527,
is his late wife Dorothy and his living wife Eleanor. Since the
marriage settlement of Sir Ninian's daughter Alice Markenfield to
Robert Mauleverer was dated 16 October 1524 (with the provision that
they should marry by February 2nd), and Sir Ninian did not marry his
second wife Eleanor Clifford until 1526, Alice had to have been the
daughter of Sir Ninian's first wife Dorothy Gascoigne.
Dorothy was one of the younger, if not the youngest, daughter of Sir
William Gascoigne and Margaret Percy. In the Gascoigne pedigree of the
1480-1500 Visitation of the North, only two daughters (Margaret and
Eleanor) and two sons (William and Thomas) are given to the couple, yet
they apparently had three more daughters (Elizabeth, Anne and Dorothy)
who survived infancy, implying that these other girls were born after
the pedigree was drawn up. Dorothy's eldest brother, Sir William
Gascoigne, was age 18 and more in his father's IPM taken on 26 Nov.
1487, so born about 1469. Dorothy was likely born close to the end of
her father's life, in the mid-1480s.
Sir Ninian Markenfield's birthdate is difficult to determine, as is the
date of his marriage to Dorothy. He had an elder brother Thomas
Markenfield who was married to Elizabeth Scrope (she married 2ndly, by
1493, Sir Ralph FitzRandall of Spennithorne), daughter of Thomas, 5th
Lord Scrope of Masham & Elizabeth Greystoke. In the Markenfield
pedigree of the 1480-1500 Visitation of the North, Thomas is described
as dead, and neither his sister Anne or younger brother Ninian are
married (Ninian's marriage to Dorothy Gascoigne was added in by a later
hand). Anne Markenfield received licence to marry Christopher Conyers
of Sockburn (that family again) on 21 November 1487, so we know her
elder brother Thomas was dead by that date. Ninian would not have
married until he became heir after his brother's death, which is
consistent with a birthdate in the 1480s for his wife Dorothy. So Sir
Ninian was likely several (possibly as much as a dozen) years older
than his first wife, and they probably did not marry before 1500.
Dorothy's sister Anne Gascoigne, Dame Fairfax, likely close in age, had
her eldest son in about 1499.
Hope this helps clarify the chronology.
Cheers, --------Brad
WJho...@aol.com
date and added a hundred years on OneWorldTree. I'll have to update my
database.
I had mentioned to OWT some time ago that they really need to be able to
understand BEF, AFT, ABT, etc, but so far it's just not working right.
Will
WJho...@aol.com
WJho...@aol.com
That date 4 Mar 1485/6 seems to be used for everything, birth, death,
marriage.
Oddness.
Will
John Higgins
to Leo's post. A lot of details on the Mauleverers have been clarified.
A couple of notes or questions on the specific lines, plus a general
question on the Mauleverers:
1) The original post indicated that Robert Mauleverer who mar. Joan Vavasour
d. 1501, but the response to Leo says that Robert's IPM was in 1501 but he
died in 1496. I assume the latter dates are the correct ones.
2) Edmund Mauleverer who mar. Eleanor Strangways is indicated to be son of
Sir Robert (d. [vp] by 1463) and his wife Joan NN. Is this Sir Robert son
of Sir William M. and Joan Colville, who show up in the "traditional"
pedigrees of this Mauleverer family? As I understand it, Arncliffe came to
the Mauleverer family via the Colville marriage.
A general question: Can anyone lay out the connection (if any) between
Mauleverer of Wothersome and either Mauleverer of Allerton or Mauleverer of
Beamsley? Are there any decent sources for the latter two families?
BTW, in digging through these Mauleverers, I came across some additional
Plantagenet descents for Anne Mauleverer Abbott of New Jersey which appear
to have been overlooked in RPA/PA3 and may also be pertinent for MCA. I'll
put these in a separate post....comments will be welcomed.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <royald...@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Additional Royal Descents For Anne Mauleverer & Richard
Saltonstall
Brad Verity
Comments interspersed.
"John Higgins" wrote:
> A couple of notes or questions on the specific lines, plus a general
> question on the Mauleverers:
>
> 1) The original post indicated that Robert Mauleverer who mar. Joan Vavasour
> d. 1501, but the response to Leo says that Robert's IPM was in 1501 but he
> died in 1496. I assume the latter dates are the correct ones.
Yes, Robert Mauleverer died on 10 March 1496, per his IPM taken on 24
October 1501.
> 2) Edmund Mauleverer who mar. Eleanor Strangways is indicated to be son of
> Sir Robert (d. [vp] by 1463) and his wife Joan NN. Is this Sir Robert son
> of Sir William M. and Joan Colville, who show up in the "traditional"
> pedigrees of this Mauleverer family?
Yes, Sir Robert Mauleverer (dvp by 1463) was the eldest son and heir of
Sir William Mauleverer of Wothersome (d. by 1463) who married by 1418,
Joan Colville (living 1463), daughter & co-heiress of Sir John Colville
& Alice Darcy.
> As I understand it, Arncliffe came to
> the Mauleverer family via the Colville marriage.
Yes.
> A general question: Can anyone lay out the connection (if any) between
> Mauleverer of Wothersome and either Mauleverer of Allerton or Mauleverer of
> Beamsley? Are there any decent sources for the latter two families?
I don't know about the Mauleverers of Beamsley, but there is a pedigree
of the Mauleverers of Allerton in the 1480-1500 Visitation of the North
3 (Surtees Soc. 144, 1930), pp. 71-72. It commences with Sir John
Mauleverer of Allerton (d. 21 November 1400) who married Eleanor
Middleton. There is even a Mauleverer/Markenfield marriage, with John
Mauleverer of Allerton, grandson of the previous, married to Isabel,
daughter of Thomas Markenfield and Beatrice Sothill, great-grandparents
of the Thomas Markenfield who married Eleanor Conyers.
William Brown's pedigree of the Mauleverers of Wothersome ('Ingleby
Arncliffe', YAJ Vol. 16 (1902), pp. 184-205) commences with Robert
Mauleverer, of whom there is known only his name, whose son William
Mauleverer first appears in record in 1325. But the Sir John
Mauleverer of Allerton (d. 1400) above-mentioned is not descended from
this William Mauleverer (living 1325), so the connection between the
two branches must be further back, in the 13th century.
Cheers, --------Brad
John Higgins
A pedigree in Clay's edition of Dugdale's Visitation of Yorkshire starts the
Wothersome family with Robert, the father of Sir William who married the
Colville heiress. He is said to have d. in 1443 and had a wife named
Elizabeth.
The "traditional" pedigree of this family appeared in Burke's Commoners [one
strike against it] and was also printed in vol. 2 of the original series of
Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica, said to be copied from the original
vellum copy then in the possession of David Brown of Arncliffe Hall. The
noted ( and often caustic) genealogist J. Horace Round in his "Family
Origins" refers to this version as "the Mauleverer concoction" and describes
it as "if not the best, at least an outstanding example" of a pedigree
"which rested on nothing but sheer fantastic fiction". Round asserts that
Lancaster Herald in 1591 ignored a pedigree carefully prepared by Sir
William Maulevever (who mar. Eleanor Aldeburgh) which started with the
individuals in William Brown's article and instead "started in the most
approved fashion with a knightly Mauleverer at the Conquest". So much for
the reliability of [at least some, if not most, of] the heralds' pedigrees.
I mention the "traditional" pedigree because it does show a connection
between the Mauleverers of Wothersome and those of Beamsley and Allerton,
but it clearly cannot be relied upon. Oh, well....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Verity" <royald...@hotmail.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Additional Royal Descents For Anne Mauleverer & Richard
Saltonstall