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Discovered a direct decent to Piers Gaveston....

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Michael Rochester

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Feb 14, 2021, 12:21:20 AM2/14/21
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I was always curious about him and there is a LOT written of him, but never thought I would be a direct descendant:

Here is the lineage:

(Sir) Piers Gaveston Earl of Cornwall 1284-1312
21st great-grandfather
Amie (Amy) Gaveston 1312-1340
Daughter of (Sir) Piers Gaveston Earl of Cornwall
Alice Driby 1340-1412
Daughter of Amie (Amy) Gaveston
(Sir) Thomas Mallory Knight 1375-1412
Son of Alice Driby
Elizabeth Mallory 1400-
Daughter of (Sir) Thomas Mallory Knight
Elizabeth Eure 1426-1482
Daughter of Elizabeth Mallory
Ralph Bulmer 1445-1486
Son of Elizabeth Eure
(Sir) William Bulmer 1465-1531
Son of Ralph Bulmer
(Sir) John Bulmer 1490-1537
Son of (Sir) William Bulmer
(Sir) Ralph Bulmer 1510-1558
Son of (Sir) John Bulmer
Anne Bulmer 1554-1624
Daughter of (Sir) Ralph Bulmer
Margery Welbury 1575-1606
Daughter of Anne Bulmer
Robert Eden 1590-1662
Son of Margery Welbury
John Eden 1616-1675
Son of Robert Eden
Layton (Laton) Eden Vicar of Hartburn 1645-1735
Son of John Eden
Jane Eden 1710-1798
Daughter of Layton (Laton) Eden Vicar of Hartburn
Margaret Harle 1734-1818
Daughter of Jane Eden
George Eden Meggison 1756-1815
Son of Margaret Harle
Thomas Meggison 1803-1883
Son of George Eden Meggison
Thomas Cuthbert Meggison 1847-1924
Son of Thomas Meggison
Thomas Bernard Meggison 1877-1965
Son of Thomas Cuthbert Meggison
Ernest Joseph Meggison 1914-1995
Son of Thomas Bernard Meggison
Thomas Frederick Meggison 1944-
Son of Ernest Joseph Meggison
Michael Thomas Meggison
You are the son of Thomas Frederick Meggison

Mark Jennings

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Feb 14, 2021, 6:48:46 AM2/14/21
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On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 5:21:20 AM UTC, kingofr...@gmail.com wrote:
> I was always curious about him and there is a LOT written of him, but never thought I would be a direct descendant:
>
> Here is the lineage:
>
> (Sir) Piers Gaveston Earl of Cornwall 1284-1312
> 21st great-grandfather
> Amie (Amy) Gaveston 1312-1340
> Daughter of (Sir) Piers Gaveston Earl of Cornwall

It takes a brave man to mention Amie de Gaveston in this Newsgroup!!!!!

wjhonson

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Feb 14, 2021, 12:31:44 PM2/14/21
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On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 3:48:46 AM UTC-8, mark66j...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 5:21:20 AM UTC, kingofr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I was always curious about him and there is a LOT written of him, but never thought I would be a direct descendant:
> >
> > Here is the lineage:
> >
> > (Sir) Piers Gaveston Earl of Cornwall 1284-1312
> > 21st great-grandfather
> > Amie (Amy) Gaveston 1312-1340
> > Daughter of (Sir) Piers Gaveston Earl of Cornwall


Your lines seems somewhat credulous.
I don't think you can confirm this line, not just in one spot, but in several spots.
In addition you seem to be taking made-up birthyears as if they had any substance at all.

We do not know what year Piers Gaveston was born.

Michael Rochester

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Feb 14, 2021, 5:13:47 PM2/14/21
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I know that. In ancestry.com, when pulling out a lineage, it deletes the "abt" and "aft" and "circa" and "bef" from the life spans. Most of the pre-1600 dates re indeed approximated.

I am fairly confident of the link.

Mike

Michael Rochester

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Feb 14, 2021, 5:20:01 PM2/14/21
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In ancestry.com, when pulling a direct lineage out from a profile, it deletes all the approximations from the dates I put in...so circa dates become actual dates; a feature of ancestry of which I loathe; and I have written to the company to allow separate fields for baptisms and burials as ancestry "forces" baptisms and burials to be falsely presented as births and deaths. Mike

John Higgins

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Feb 14, 2021, 7:34:44 PM2/14/21
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Setting aside date issues (which I leave to Will!), I think that the descent, in terms of people and relationships, is sound at least until Anne Bulmer (m. (1) Anthony Welbury and (2) Sir Gerard Lowther) and probably until Layton Eden, Vicar of Hartburn. That's as far as I can readily check.

The descent down to Sir Ralph Bulmer (d. 1558) is part of the ancestry of Princess Diana and can be easily found in the Genealogics database.

wjhonson

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Feb 15, 2021, 11:10:56 AM2/15/21
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On Sunday, February 14, 2021 at 2:20:01 PM UTC-8, kingofr...@gmail.com wrote:
> In ancestry.com, when pulling a direct lineage out from a profile, it deletes all the approximations from the dates I put in...so circa dates become actual dates; a feature of ancestry of which I loathe; and I have written to the company to allow separate fields for baptisms and burials as ancestry "forces" baptisms and burials to be falsely presented as births and deaths. Mike

There is no such thing as "Ancestry" as a source.
The source for each link would be something like "Ancestry Family Trees, tree JonesSmith, by Gerald Jones, page for Mable Smith d 1550" that sort of thing. Calling a source "Ancestry" gives it weight it does not support since each tree is created by individuals who may be quite insane.

wjhonson

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Feb 15, 2021, 11:25:25 AM2/15/21
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The father of Anne Bulmer is indeed called Sir Ralph Bulmer (so said in a document dated 1605)
It's not clear to me that there is only one single Ralph Bulmer who this could be however

Michael Rochester

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Feb 15, 2021, 1:27:06 PM2/15/21
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I never said ancestry was a source in itself. It does have wills, parish registers, etc. which I utilize. In fact, I was able to link a family from Berwick in Northumberland to London using probate records. I use it to store what I have found in other sources, to show pedigrees and eventually utilize it when I want to write articles and books about ancestors. Nothing more or less, much like me using wikitree and geni.

Mike

Michael Rochester

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Feb 15, 2021, 1:30:36 PM2/15/21
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The pedigree from earliest known Welbury ancestor, Simon Welbury down to Anne is in some larger Yorkshire/Durham visitations and county histories. I think a Surtees or Hodgson history has that down.


Mike

John Higgins

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Feb 15, 2021, 3:00:33 PM2/15/21
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On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 10:30:36 AM UTC-8, kingofr...@gmail.com wrote:
> The pedigree from earliest known Welbury ancestor, Simon Welbury down to Anne is in some larger Yorkshire/Durham visitations and county histories. I think a Surtees or Hodgson history has that down.
>
>
> Mike

A Welbury pedigree is in Surtees' History of Durham, vol., 1, p. 43. I've seen that reference in bibliographies, but I haven't seen the pedigree itself (and am unlikely to do so for the duration of the pandemic).

BTW when you respond to a message, you should include at least some portion of the message you're responding to. It gives context to your replay - and it's the polite thing to do.

pj.ev...@gmail.com

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Feb 15, 2021, 5:03:19 PM2/15/21
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It's a good place to find documentation - birth records, marriage records, death records, tax records, wills - as well as pointing at printed sources like Massachusetts town records that many libraries won't have. When you can't get to a library (mine aren't open) this is a wonderful thing to have.

pj.ev...@gmail.com

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Feb 15, 2021, 5:05:18 PM2/15/21
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On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 8:10:56 AM UTC-8, wjhonson wrote:
It's a good place to find documentation - birth records, marriage records, death records, tax records, wills - as well as pointing at printed sources like Massachusetts town records that many libraries won't have. When you can't get to a library (mine aren't open, and none are close by) this is a wonderful thing to have.

Michael Rochester

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Feb 15, 2021, 5:18:56 PM2/15/21
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It is not easy to do by phone...and it creates extraneous threads getting caught within the purpose at hand. It is not like I am all cappin.

wjhonson

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Feb 16, 2021, 11:03:31 AM2/16/21
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I am merely stating that when you give a descent and say it comes from Ancestry, no one is going to try to recreate your plan in order to confirm or disprove it.

I do note however that, per Genealogics there are many breaks in your line.
Those require a specific citation to fill in, instead of hand-waving.

John Higgins

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Feb 16, 2021, 2:31:17 PM2/16/21
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"MANY breaks in your line" per Genealogics?

In the line from Piers de Gaveston to Layton Eden, I see only one break: Anne Bulmer m. Anthony Welbury. After Layton Eden, there is nothing in Genealogics - no surprise there.


Michael Rochester

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Feb 16, 2021, 9:29:27 PM2/16/21
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Yes., Sir Ralph denied paternity to some of his children via the Durham county history pedigree of Welbury; other visitations do not note that, however. Without a DNA test, who knows, but Sir Ralph Bulmer WAS married to the woman shown as mother of several children, and nothing can be further ascertained in other records over this "controversy," so I apt to let the pedigree be presented as I see it, albeit to further modifications if ever discovered.

Michael Rochester

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Feb 16, 2021, 9:31:28 PM2/16/21
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Most of my citations are within the notes of ancestry, with "screen shots" of what I have discovered, thus cannot be posted on a most HTML-UNfriendly page such as this, it is nearly impossible to cite normal sources. That is why I am seeking a better genealogy program that allows easier citing of sources.

wjhonson

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Feb 17, 2021, 9:11:24 AM2/17/21
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You are capable of transcribing what you see, into text.

wjhonson

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Feb 17, 2021, 9:14:12 AM2/17/21
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There is no parent for Margery Welbury in genealogics.
That's one

Michael Rochester

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Feb 17, 2021, 12:34:59 PM2/17/21
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Yes....and?
1. Welbury pedigree
1908 The history and antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham by Surtees, Robert, 1779-1834 Publication date 1908
Pedigree DIRECTLY shows Margery marrying John Eden
2. Some Historic Notes on the Eden Family (book): pedigree DIRECTLY shows Margery, daughter of Anthony, marrying John Eden.
3. blob:null/3c12e766-24ae-2544-b428-428bc0cb3850 will of Simon Welbury directly mentions son Anthony and granddaughter Margery
4. More direct linking: History And Antiquities Of The County Palatine Of Durham. (Hartlepool Section) 1910
Windgate and Windgate Grange, p. 185: DIRECT linking of Simon, Anthony and Margery Welbury to Edens.

But by all means, keep trying. You may be capable of proving me wrong after all. :)



Michael Rochester

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Feb 17, 2021, 12:38:43 PM2/17/21
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I am capable of doing that; but since I am far from writing a book or article; it is not yet my time to transcribe since (1) I am not proficient in law, legalities of the middle ages, old English, and peculiarities of relationship denoting from the middle ages to the 1600s. I rely on, after Richardson's books and some IPMs I discover on my own, pedigrees and Surtees/Harlean society tomes of original records; to "bridge" that pre-parish register period. I have a good game plan, for someone who is admittingly a novice in this angle of British genealogy (I am pretty proficient after registers are introduced).

Brad Verity

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Feb 17, 2021, 3:00:25 PM2/17/21
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On Tuesday, February 16, 2021 at 11:31:17 AM UTC-8, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> In the line from Piers de Gaveston to Layton Eden, I see only one break: Anne Bulmer m. Anthony Welbury. After Layton Eden, there is nothing in Genealogics - no surprise there.

Through his mother Katherine (Layton) Eden, Rev. Layton Eden is a descendant of Lady Elizabeth (Mortimer) Percy. He can be found in Ruvigny's Mortimer-Percy volume in Table XVI:
https://archive.org/details/plantagenetrollo01ruvi/page/17/mode/2up

And on p. 291, where Ruvigny was unable to trace his line down any further: "Descendants of the Rev. LATON EDEN, Rector of Hartborne, co. Northumberland (Table XVI.), d. (-); m. (--), da. of the Rev. (--) JOHNSON; and had issue (several sons and das.) [footnote: Brydges' 'Collins,' viii. 288.]"
https://archive.org/details/plantagenetrollo01ruvi/page/291/mode/2up

I have some dates for Rev. Layton Eden. He was born about 1655, and was buried 11 December 1735 St Andrew Church, Hartburn, Northumberland. He was Vicar of Hartburn 1685-1735. I don't have any information on his wife or children.

Hope this helps a little.

Cheers, ------Brad

Carl-Henry Geschwind

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Feb 17, 2021, 3:18:09 PM2/17/21
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Please forgive me for intruding on this conversation.

The will of Simon Welbury (Symon Welberye of Castle-Eden), dated 13 Aug 1581 and probated 1583, can be found in _Wills and Inventories from the Registry at Durham_, vol. 3 (Surtees Society vol. 112) (Durham: 1906), pp. 87-88, viewable at https://archive.org/details/willsandinvento00woodgoog/page/n98/mode/2up. This will indeed lists a granddaughter Margery, daughter of his son Anthony, but unfortunately without last or married name.

I did not find a reference to Welbury in vol. 1 of the Surtees county history published in 1908; perhaps I was not looking in the right place. And I also did not find a reference on p. 185 of the Hartlepool section, published in 1910; though on p. 184 it does mention that in 1553 Simon Welbury and Christopher Morland, among others, were granted four messuages with their appurtenances in Wingate (no reference, as far as I can tell, to Simon's son or granddaughter).

I believe the reference to the Welbury pedigree in _The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham_ you want is the pedigree on p. 57 of vol. 3 of the 1908-1910 edition, which can be seen at https://archive.org/details/historyantiquiti03surt/page/56/mode/2up. This indeed shows John Eden as wife of Margery, granddaughter of Simon Welbury, but doesn't state explicitly on what evidence this is based. The only date listed for Margery is 1583, which is a reference back to the will of Simon Welbury probated that year (the same date is listed for a number of other people in the pedigree). For John Eden it states "ob. 1588"

I have also located the family history, which is Robert Allan Eden, _Some Historical Notes on the Eden Family_ (London: 1907). This appears to be not available through Google, but is available (behind a paywall) at ancestry.com (at https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/17835/images/dvm_GenMono003631-00001-0). According to p. 22 of this publication, the John Eden who married Margery Welbury, daughter of Anthony Welbury of Castle Eden, was the John Eden born 1571, grandson of the John Eden who died 1588.

The only evidence given by the Eden family history for John Eden's marriage to Margery Welbury is a reference to Surtees Society Publication vol. 34, pp. 44-48. This publication is _The Acts of the High Commission Court Within the Diocese of Durham_ (Edinburgh: 1858). On pp. 44-48 (viewable at https://archive.org/details/actshighcommissi34surtuoft/page/44/mode/2up) is considerable witness testimony in the 1633 case of Marie Daniell, spinster, for having committed adultery with John Eden, esquire, and having alienated his affection from his wife. On p. 45 an editorial footnote identifies this wife as "Margaret, daughter of Anthony Welbury of Castle Eden," but gives no source for this identification, and I see no mention of her actual name in the witness testimony.

Thus, at least from what I have seen so far, we do have contemporary evidence that Simon Welbury had a daughter Margery, but the evidence of her husband is conflicting, with a late-18th century pedigree asserting her husband was the John Eden who died 1588, while a mid-1850s editorial comment asserts her husband was the John Eden who was still alive (and living in sin) in 1633.

John Higgins

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Feb 17, 2021, 3:23:12 PM2/17/21
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Yes - that's why I said there was a break after Anne Bulmer m. Anthony Welbury. That's ONE break - not "many".

Michael Rochester

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Feb 17, 2021, 3:27:57 PM2/17/21
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Thank you!

Most pedigrees only show one, or two marriages, one to a Miss Johnson, and Margaret Aynsley, but Rev Layton Eden actually married three times. Parish registers of Hartburn record his marriage to Margaret Dove (in the handwriting of Rev Eden himself) and records baptisms of all his children. His will also names his daughter Jane Eden Harle. Rev Eden is even in the Plantagenet roll book, which acknowledges his links with the British royal family, etc.

This is where "MY" legwork comes into play with probate and parish registers to augment earlier work for earlier ancestors. I showed this to genealogical experts at Woodburn and Newcastle's library and they agree on my findings.

Bridging into the "parish register" age was not too difficult, given the high status of the Eden and allied families of the area.

Mike

Michael Rochester

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Feb 17, 2021, 3:33:20 PM2/17/21
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On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-5, Carl-Henry Geschwind wrote:
> Thus, at least from what I have seen so far, we do have contemporary evidence that Simon Welbury had a daughter Margery, but the evidence of her husband is conflicting, with a late-18th century pedigree asserting her husband was the John Eden who died 1588, while a mid-1850s editorial comment asserts her husband was the John Eden who was still alive (and living in sin) in 1633.

Thank you so much for all the checking! I am pretty sure he was the correct John Eden, as the family is very well documented. Thanks to his brother, the first baronet, they have been documented enough to do a wholesale process of elimination of anyone with the surname. I did find that reference to Eden and his infidelities; but since there was no mention of out of wedlock children, I am certain the children of Eden were indeed his wife Margery's. More than enough evidence to reach a reasonable conclusion. Thanks again!

Brad Verity

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Feb 17, 2021, 3:37:16 PM2/17/21
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On Monday, February 15, 2021 at 12:00:33 PM UTC-8, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> A Welbury pedigree is in Surtees' History of Durham, vol., 1, p. 43. I've seen that reference in bibliographies, but I haven't seen the pedigree itself (and am unlikely to do so for the duration of the pandemic).

Dear John,

I have the Surtees "Pedigree of Welbury, of Castle-Eden". Here is the entry for Anthony Welbury:
“Anthony Welbury [son of ’Simon Welbury = …. sister of Christopher Morland’] of Castle Eden, gent. ob. 5 November, 1596. Inq.p.m. 16 April, 39 Eliz. = Anne, reputed dau. & co-heir of Sir Ralph Bulmer of Wilton in Cleveland, co. Ebor. knt. whom her father never acknowledged.”

And here is the entry for their eldest daughter, Margery (Welbury) Eden:
“Margery [dau of ‘Anthony Welbury of Castle Eden = Anne Bulmer’] 1583 = John Eden of Windleston, co. Pal. ob. 1588.”

I think Surtees must be mistaken on the 1588 date of death for Margery's husband John Eden. I have him as born about 1570, and died about 1625. I estimated his birthdate from the fact that his grandson Col. John Eden of Windlestone Hall was baptized 3 December 1616 at St Brandon Church, Brancepeth, Durham. Unfortunately I didn't note why I have John Eden dying about 1625.

Surtees lists five daughters for Anthony Eden and Anne Bulmer: Margery, Isabel, Elizabeth, Barbara and Eleanor. Only Margery is shown in the pedigree as married. I do have further information on the youngest daughter, Eleanor Welbury. She was buried 22 August 1620 St Mary Church, Ingleton, Yorkshire, and married 2 January 1600 St Andrew Church, Greystoke, Cumberland, William Lowther of Ingleton (born 21 January 1574 Lowther Hall, Westmorland, baptized 30 January 1574 St Michael Church, Lowther; buried 21 July 1641 St Mary Church, Ingleton). Eleanor's husband William Lowther was the younger brother of Sir Gerard Lowther of Dublin (1561-1624), Eleanor's stepfather.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers, -----Brad

wjhonson

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Feb 17, 2021, 3:56:43 PM2/17/21
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That John Eden who is buried 21 May 1588 did indeed have a second wife by the name of Margaret.
He names her such in his will dated 11 May 1588

https://www.google.com/books/edition/Wills_and_Inventories_from_the_Registry/wMBJAAAAcAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA326


Mark Jennings

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Feb 17, 2021, 4:32:45 PM2/17/21
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Margery Welbury married "Jo: Eden" at Billingham, County Durham, 22 October 1592. Her husband was thus not the one who died in 1588.

John Higgins

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Feb 17, 2021, 5:25:04 PM2/17/21
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On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 12:18:09 PM UTC-8, Carl-Henry Geschwind wrote:

> Please forgive me for intruding on this conversation.
>
The intrusion is welcome - and useful. :-)
>
> I did not find a reference to Welbury in vol. 1 of the Surtees county history published in 1908; perhaps I was not looking in the right place. And I also did not find a reference on p. 185 of the Hartlepool section, published in 1910; though on p. 184 it does mention that in 1553 Simon Welbury and Christopher Morland, among others, were granted four messuages with their appurtenances in Wingate (no reference, as far as I can tell, to Simon's son or granddaughter).
>
The biblographic sources that I mentioned said the Welbury pedigree was on p. 43 of vol. 1 of Surtees' Durham. I believe that's the pedigree that Brad Verity summarized in a later post in this thread - but he may be referencing the pedigree you below on p.57 of vol. 3 - or the two pedgrees may be the same. Either way, they provide the necessary support for Margery Welbury.

> I believe the reference to the Welbury pedigree in _The History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham_ you want is the pedigree on p. 57 of vol. 3 of the 1908-1910 edition, which can be seen at https://archive.org/details/historyantiquiti03surt/page/56/mode/2up. This indeed shows John Eden as wife of Margery, granddaughter of Simon Welbury, but doesn't state explicitly on what evidence this is based. The only date listed for Margery is 1583, which is a reference back to the will of Simon Welbury probated that year (the same date is listed for a number of other people in the pedigree). For John Eden it states "ob. 1588"
>
> I have also located the family history, which is Robert Allan Eden, _Some Historical Notes on the Eden Family_ (London: 1907). This appears to be not available through Google, but is available (behind a paywall) at ancestry.com (at https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/17835/images/dvm_GenMono003631-00001-0). According to p. 22 of this publication, the John Eden who married Margery Welbury, daughter of Anthony Welbury of Castle Eden, was the John Eden born 1571, grandson of the John Eden who died 1588.
>
The 1907 work on the Edens is available in digital form at the FHL here: https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/133273?availability=Family%20History%20Library
You should be able to view the book on-line. If you want to download the book, you'll need to set up a free account at Family Search (not a bad idea anyway).

John Higgins

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Feb 17, 2021, 5:32:21 PM2/17/21
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Hi, Brad: [good to hear from you - it's been too long!]

I assume this pedigree is from vol. 1 p. 43 of Surtees' Durham - or is it the one from vol. 3 p. 57 that Carl-Henry Geschwind mentioned in an early post? The two pedigrees (if there are two) may be the same.

I agree with with you that Surtees is in error in saying that Margery 's husband John Eden died in 1588 - it's chronmologically impossible.

I too have the other daughter Eleanor in my data and have now added Margery.

John Higgins

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Feb 17, 2021, 5:43:53 PM2/17/21
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Mike, can you clarify your reference to "the Plantagenet roll book"? Ruvigny's work is a 5-volume set, and all the volumes have "Plantagenet Roll" in their title.

Carl-Henry Geschwind

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Feb 17, 2021, 5:56:19 PM2/17/21
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I see that this is taken from the Billingham parish registers, which begin in 1570 - wonderful. Given that Billingham is about 9 miles south of Castle Eden (home of the Welburys), I believe that, to complete the demonstration (that this Margery Welbury who married John Eden was the same as the Margery Welbury named as daughter of Anthony Welbury in Simon Welbury's 1581 will), we only need to follow up on a throw-away line on p. 22 in the Eden family history - that Robert Eden (John Eden's father) and Anthony Welbury had been brothers-in-arms in the 1569 rebellion and had both suffered for this. I presume contemporary documentation for this can be found?

Oh, and John - thank you for pointing out that the Eden family history is also available at familysearch.org!

Brad Verity

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Feb 17, 2021, 6:12:12 PM2/17/21
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On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 2:32:21 PM UTC-8, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hi, Brad: [good to hear from you - it's been too long!]

Hello and thanks. I'm back in the States and getting re-settled.

> I assume this pedigree is from vol. 1 p. 43 of Surtees' Durham - or is it the one from vol. 3 p. 57 that Carl-Henry Geschwind mentioned in an early post? The two pedigrees (if there are two) may be the same.

The pedigree I have is from Surtees vol. 1 p. 43 (1816). But it's identical to the one Carl-Henry linked to on p. 57 in Volume 3 of the Surtees re-print in 1908-10. The re-print volume numbers don't match up to the original 19th-century volumes, apparently.

> I agree with with you that Surtees is in error in saying that Margery 's husband John Eden died in 1588 - it's chronmologically impossible.

Yes, it appears Surtees confused Margery's husband John Eden with his grandfather John Eden who died in 1588.

John Higgins

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Feb 17, 2021, 6:17:27 PM2/17/21
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Back in the States? Send me a note offline and let me know how things are with you. I'm sure you have my email address. (I can't seem to "reply privately to author" with the "new" Google Groups)

Brad Verity

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Feb 18, 2021, 3:19:23 PM2/18/21
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On Wednesday, February 17, 2021 at 3:17:27 PM UTC-8, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Back in the States? Send me a note offline and let me know how things are with you. I'm sure you have my email address. (I can't seem to "reply privately to author" with the "new" Google Groups)

John, I cancelled my royald...@hotmail.com account, so I no longer have your email address. You can reach me now at verit...@hotmail.com

Cheers, -----Brad

John Higgins

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Feb 18, 2021, 7:34:32 PM2/18/21
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Brad, I can't figure out to read your full email address in the new Google Groups. My yahoo email is jihgginsgen.

John Higgins

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Feb 18, 2021, 7:43:33 PM2/18/21
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Oops - typo s/b jhigginsgen

joseph cook

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Feb 18, 2021, 8:15:58 PM2/18/21
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If you click the half-hidden email address, and are logged into google account, and click "I am not a robot", the full address will appear.
--Joe C

John Higgins

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Feb 18, 2021, 8:30:21 PM2/18/21
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Thanks for the help, but I tried that. I clicked on the partial email address. It went to a new page with the box to click "I am not a robot". I clicked the box, but nothing happened.

pj.ev...@gmail.com

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Feb 18, 2021, 8:40:43 PM2/18/21
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It worked for me (it's a left click) so I could see it in the post. Before the @ in rot-13 it's irevgloenq

John Higgins

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Feb 18, 2021, 8:48:36 PM2/18/21
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Tried again - still no luck. I click on "I am not a robot" (which is on a blank page) and nothing happens. I don't understand the last sentence of your answer.

John Higgins

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Feb 18, 2021, 8:50:45 PM2/18/21
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Do you have to have a gmail email account for this to work properly?

Michael Rochester

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Feb 21, 2021, 11:00:42 PM2/21/21
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> Mike, can you clarify your reference to "the Plantagenet roll book"? Ruvigny's work is a 5-volume set, and all the volumes have "Plantagenet Roll" in their title.

Do you have an ancestry.com account?
Here it is: https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6552/images/Plntgnt-PMRTM-0029?pId=2268

pj.ev...@gmail.com

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Feb 21, 2021, 11:07:24 PM2/21/21
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It worked for me when I wasn't logged in, so it shouldn't matter. It won't work if it isn't in color (links show up for me in blue).

Carl-Henry Geschwind

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Feb 22, 2021, 9:28:34 AM2/22/21
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The reference is to Table XVIII in volume 1. It can also be viewed at https://archive.org/details/plantagenetrollo01ruvi/page/18/mode/2up

Carl-Henry Geschwind

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Feb 22, 2021, 11:44:47 AM2/22/21
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Strike that - I should have said Table XVI in volume 1, viewable at https://archive.org/details/plantagenetrollo01ruvi/page/16/mode/2up. What this shows is the royal ancestry not of Rev. John Eden, but rather of his wife Catherine Laton

John Higgins

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Feb 22, 2021, 3:25:37 PM2/22/21
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It's a bit misleading to call this "volume 1", as the volumes in the Ruvigny series were named, not numbered: Tudor Roll, Clarence, Exeter, Essex, and Mortimer-Percy. Confusion may arise because the title page of the Mortimer-Percy volume (the link above) refers to "Part 1". A "Part 2" of Mortimer-Percy was planned but never published. It's discussed on page x of the preface to the Mortimer-Percy volume (along with other planned volumes which were never published).

The Tudor Roll, Clarence, and Mortimer-Percy volumes are available online via the FHL, while the Clarence and Mortimer-Percy volumes are available at the Internet Archive. I haven't yet found digital copies of the Exeter or Essex volumes.

The Ancestry link above, which Mike calls "the Plantagenet roll book", is a single digital volume which contains page images of at least 4 and possibly all 5 of the volumes in the Ruvigny series (the description in Ancestry is unclear).

wjhonson

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Feb 23, 2021, 9:53:42 AM2/23/21
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The Marquis of Ruvigny and Raineval, Melville Henry Massue. The Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal Being A Complete Table of All the Descendents Now Living of Edward III, King of England. London, England: T.C. & E. C. Jack, 1905-1911.

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