Stafford of Grafton Problems
Jwc...@aol.com
Stafford of Grafton 1426-1486 by Catherine Fray than his father Sir Humphrey
Stafford`s d 1450 by Eleanor Aylesbury. I have 1443 as Marmaduke Constable of
Flamborough `s birthdate, rather than 1455, but regardless, It`s likely at best
a tight fit for Joyce Stafford to be the earlier Humprey`s daughter.
sincerely,
James W Cummings
Dixmont, Maine USA
Douglas Richardson
Dear James ~
The question of the parentage of Joyce (Stafford) Constable came up on
the newsgroup back in 2001. At that time, Ronny Bodine posted a
rather full discussion of the matter which I believe answers your
question. Ronny's post includes a reference to a record dated 1478,
in which Eleanor Aylesbury, widow of Humphrey Stafford, named her
children, among them a daughter named Joyeux (that is, Joyce). This
record is excellent evidence that Joyce (Stafford) Constable was the
child of Humphrey and Eleanor (Aylesbury) Stafford. I have copied
Ronny's post in full below taken from the newsgroup archives.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
From: rbodi...@aol.com (Ronny Bodine)
Newsgroups: soc.genealogy.medieval
Subject: Joyce, Daughter of Which Sir Humphrey Stafford?
Date: 26 Jul 2001 19:48:53 -0700
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Several weeks ago I received e-mail asking my opinion on the parentage
of Joyce Stafford, wife of Sir Marmaduke Constable (1443-1518). Was
she the daughter of Sir Humphrey Stafford, of Grafton, Worcestershire
(1400-1450), or of his son, Humphrey Stafford, of Grafton (1426/7-
1486). In my personal records I believed her to be the daughter of
the elder Sir Humphrey, but thought I would look into this further
just to be sure. I checked the SGM archives and found only brief
mention of this quite some time back where it was suggested she was
the daughter of the younger Humphrey, but without any noted evidence.
The Visitation of Yorkshire in 1564 (Harleian Society, vol. 16 [1881],
p. 65, for Constable of Flamborough, names the 2nd wife of Sir
Marmaduke Constable as "Joyce doughter to Sir Humphrey Stafford of
Graufton" and the mother of all of his children. There does not
appear to be any dispute that she was the daughter of "a" Sir Humphrey
Stafford of Grafton, but which one, father or son?
Nash's Collections for the History of Worcestershire, vol. 1 [1781],
p. 156-173 covers the manor of Grafton, and there is a transcription
of a document dated 1 April 1478, wherein Alianore [Eleanor
Aylesbury], widow and sometime wife of Humphrey Stafford, establishes
a chantry at Bromsgrove Church to say mass for Prince Edward, the
Queen, and for Alianore and "Humfrey, Thomas, Elizabeth, Anne, and
Joyeux, children of the seide Humfrey late my husband and me..."
Now, the Staffordshire Record Society, 3rd Series, vol. 1917, p. 212,
in its biographical sketches of Staffordshire Members of Parliament,
states Sir Humphrey Stafford was "married, 1408, both being infants,
Eleanore, daughter and heiress of Sir Thomas Aylesbury..." and cites
the Complete Peerage, which reference in CP, 2: 389 reads "Sir
Humphrey Stafford of Grafton whose wife Eleanor was living 24 May
1449. A papal dispensation to contract marriage, dated 7 Id. Aug
1408, possibly refers to him."
Wedgwood's History of Parliament 1439-1509 [1936], vol. 1, p. 792,
also states Sir Humphrey Stafford (1400-50) married Eleanor Aylesbury
"c. 1408." So, Sir Humphrey Stafford was apparently married in 1408,
when aged eight, and his wife was at least his age if not younger.
Children would likely have been born starting about 1420, perhaps a
year or two in either direction.
In Testamenta Eboracensia, vol. 3, Publications of the Surtees
Society, vol. 45 [1865], p. 324, I find a marriage license issued on 2
Jan 1423-4 to the "prior of Thurgarton, the prior of Shelford and
William Storthwaite, or one of them, to marry, in the chapel of
Wyrton, Humphrey Stafford and Eleanor, whom he intends to espouse."
Unfortunately, Eleanor's family name is not stated, but I wonder if
this is not a record of that marriage, as the date of 1408 was but a
proposed marriage contract. The time period would be correct.
The issue of Sir Humphrey Stafford and wife Eleanor Aylesbury, based
upon Nash and Wedgwood, was-
1. Richard Stafford, eldest son, who was slain by the Harcourts in
June 1448.
2. Humphrey Stafford (1426/7-1486), who succeeded his father in
Grafton and his mother to Blatherwyck, Northamptonshire. When
attainted and executed in 1486, the Staffords lost Grafton, but his
descendants continued to reside at Blatherwyck. He married Katherine
Fray.
3. Thomas Stafford. He was attainted with his brother, and his
descendants held Tottenho, Buckinghamshire.
4. Elizabeth Stafford, who married by license of 27 Jan 1446/7,
Richard Beauchamp, of Powick (1435-1503). [CP, vol. 2, p. 47]
5. Anne Stafford, who married Thomas Skull.
6. Joyce Stafford, wife of Sir Marmaduke Constable (1443-1518).
The fact that her parents started having children in the early 1420s
and she was born at least by 1443 and perhaps a year or two later,
does not place her out of the realm of probability as a child of
Humphrey and Eleanor, considering that she appears to have been the
youngest child. Her slightly older sister, Elizabeth, was born about
the time of her husband, 1435, again, perhaps even a year or two
later.
Nash, p. 157 names four children of the younger Humphrey Stafford, 2
sons, and 2 daughters- Anne, wife of Richard Neville, Lord Latimer,
and Margaret, wife of John Archer, of Tamworth.
Our local library is missing the Harleian Society's volume on
Staffordshire Pedigrees so I am uncertain if a Stafford pedigree
therein may have named a second Joyce as a daughter of the younger
Humphrey Stafford, but none of the published pedigrees from other
sources I have found do so.
Although these various histories call the younger Humphrey Stafford a
knight, he died as an "Esquire" based on several entries in the
Calendar of Patent Rolls, 1485-1494, among others on p. 159.
Many thanks for any input.
Ronny Bodine
Jay
.
>
> The issue of Sir Humphrey Stafford and wife Eleanor Aylesbury, based
> upon Nash and Wedgwood, was-
>
> 1. Richard Stafford, eldest son, who was slain by the Harcourts in
> June 1448.
>
> 2. Humphrey Stafford (1426/7-1486), who succeeded his father in
> Grafton and his mother to Blatherwyck, Northamptonshire. When
> attainted and executed in 1486, the Staffords lost Grafton, but his
> descendants continued to reside at Blatherwyck. He married Katherine
> Fray.
>
> 3. Thomas Stafford. He was attainted with his brother, and his
> descendants held Tottenho, Buckinghamshire.
>
> 4. Elizabeth Stafford, who married by license of 27 Jan 1446/7,
> Richard Beauchamp, of Powick (1435-1503). [CP, vol. 2, p. 47]
>
> 5. Anne Stafford, who married Thomas Skull.
Did she also marry William Berkeley of Stokes-Giffard d. 17 Nov 1501?
>
> 6. Joyce Stafford, wife of Sir Marmaduke Constable (1443-1518).
>
>
> Nash, p. 157 names four children of the younger Humphrey Stafford, 2
> sons, and 2 daughters- Anne, wife of Richard Neville, Lord Latimer,
> and Margaret, wife of John Archer, of Tamworth.
Anybody know the names of the two sons?
I have Humphrey as one .
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> Ihave some questions interspersed below.
> .
> >
> > The issue of Sir Humphrey Stafford and wife Eleanor Aylesbury, based
> > upon Nash and Wedgwood, was-
> >
> > 1. Richard Stafford, eldest son, who was slain by the Harcourts in
> > June 1448.
> >
> > 2. Humphrey Stafford (1426/7-1486), who succeeded his father in
> > Grafton and his mother to Blatherwyck, Northamptonshire. When
> > attainted and executed in 1486, the Staffords lost Grafton, but his
> > descendants continued to reside at Blatherwyck. He married Katherine
> > Fray.
> >
> > 3. Thomas Stafford. He was attainted with his brother, and his
> > descendants held Tottenho, Buckinghamshire.
> >
> > 4. Elizabeth Stafford, who married by license of 27 Jan 1446/7,
> > Richard Beauchamp, of Powick (1435-1503). [CP, vol. 2, p. 47]
> >
> > 5. Anne Stafford, who married Thomas Skull.
>
>
> Did she also marry William Berkeley of Stokes-Giffard d. 17 Nov 1501?
Certainly an Anne Stafford, dau of a Sir Humphrey S. m. Sir Wm. Berkeley
of Weoly and Stoke Gifford:
CP, II, 136
Smyth's "Lives of the Berkeleys", Vol I, p. 261
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org
Jim Weber
Dear James, Tim, Brice, Douglas, Jay, & co.
Certainly MCS line 51 and AR7 line 187 have the Anne who married
William Berkeley as daughter of Humphrey & Catherine Fray. MCS
doesn't mention any sources close to the generation in question, but
AR7 lists CP II 136, lines 3 & 4, plus "Genealogist", n.s. 31:173. I
don't know what the Genealogist says, but CP II:136 doesn't add much
in identifying which Humphrey was father of that Anne. Maybe the
Genealogist does.
The CP VII:481-2 entry for Richard Nevill, Lord Latimer (b. c1468 "a
year old at his grandfather's death' on 30 or 31 Dec 1469), states "He
m. 1stly, about 1490, Anne, da. of Sir Humphrey Stafford, of Grafton,
co Worcester, and Blatherwyk, Northants." CP doesn't mention any
prior marriage for Anne, who was b. presumably in the late 1460s/early
1470s.
Jim Weber
Douglas Richardson
Humphrey Stafford and his wife, Eleanor Aylesbury, were the parents of
Anne Stafford, who married (1st) Thomas Skull of Wigginton,
Oxfordshire (died before 1459) and (2nd) William Berkeley, K.B.,of
Weoley (in Northfield), Worcestershire (died 1501). By her first
marriage, Anne evidently had no issue. By her second marriage, she
had two children, Richard, Esq., and Anne (wife of John Gyse, Knt.,
and William Kingston).
You may wish to consult the following sources for further information
on this family:
T. Nash, Colls. for the Hist. of Worcestershire 1 (1781): 157.
T. Blore, Hist. & Antiq. of Rutland 1 Pt. 2 (1811): 210 (Berkeley
pedigree).
List of Early Chancery Procs. 1 (PRO Lists and Indexes 12) (1901):
226; 4 (PRO Lists and Indexes 29) (1908): 42, 44.
VCH Worcester 3 (1913): 195.
J.C. Wedgwood, Hist. of Parliament 1 (1936): 69 (biog. of Sir William
Berkeley).
VCH Oxford 9 (1969): 166.
A.F. Sutton, Coronation of Richard III (1983): 312 (biog. of William
Berkeley).
T. Langton, Reg. of Thomas Langton Bishop of Salisbury 1485–93
(Canterbury & York Soc. 74) (1985): 14.
VCH Wiltshire 15 (1995): 138–139.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
heli...@yahoo.com (Jay) wrote in message news:<d51b1746.04012...@posting.google.com>...