Alice Freeman's Danvers line
Denee...@aol.com
Alice Freeman Thompson Parke? As far as I can tell, Alice Freeman's
royal ancestry is no more recent than late Anglo-Saxon kings. The
connections to Giffard, Throckmorton, Grey, Burley/Bruley and
Quatermaine/Quatremaine all seem hopelessly confused.
Any help is much appreciated.
Denee
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Kay Allen AG
Genealogical Society Register.. It is also covered in the Blackmans of
Cross Creek or somesuch.
The Bruleys are confusing, because, a a junior line splits from the
senior line and the they converge in marriage.
Or you can wait for my book to come out :-) :-) :-) (joke)
It is from the Saxon Kings through Dunbar. There is also a descent from
Malcolm II of Scotland.
Kay Allen AG
Compaq
F. N. MacNamara (1895). Dennis Lorensen
Compaq
Descendants of Geroge & Maria (Smith) Blackman" by Henry James Young
(revised edition, 1980). Dennis Lorensen
Subject: Re: Alice Freeman's Danvers line
> G. Andrews Moriarty outlined this descent in the New England Historic
> Genealogical Society Register.. It is also covered in the Blackmans of
> Cross Creek or somesuch.
>
> The Bruleys are confusing, because, a a junior line splits from the
> senior line and the they converge in marriage.
>
> Or you can wait for my book to come out :-) :-) :-) (joke)
>
> It is from the Saxon Kings through Dunbar. There is also a descent from
> Malcolm II of Scotland.
>
> Kay Allen AG
>
> Denee...@aol.com wrote:
>
D. Spencer Hines
King of England.
She is also reportedly the 10th Great-Grandmother of Diana, Princess of
Wales.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
Vires et Honor.
<Denee...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8s85nk$git$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: D. Spencer Hines <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Alice Freeman's Danvers line
> Alice Freeman is reportedly a descendant of AETHELRED II 'The Redeless'
> King of England.
>
I presume this is Alice Freeman who died in 1664?
Then you are spot on, she is also a descendant of
Llewellyn Fawr, Prince of Wales, 1173-1240
Malcolm II, King of Scots, 954-1034
Brian Boru, 926-1014
Richard I, Duke of Normandy, 933-996
Hugues Capet, King of France, 940-996
Heinrich I the Fowler, Emperor, 876-936
Charlemagne 742-814
> She is also reportedly the 10th Great-Grandmother of Diana, Princess of
> Wales.
-------She is definitely an ancestor of Princess Diana, but also of Winthrop
Rockefeller, Governor of Arkansas, 1912-1973
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
Reedpcgen
>Then you are spot on, she is also a descendant of
>Llewellyn Fawr, Prince of Wales, 1173-1240
Leo,
What is the descent from Llywelyn Fawr?
Thanks,
Paul
Ed Mann
"D. Spencer Hines" wrote:
>
> Alice Freeman is reportedly a descendant of AETHELRED II 'The Redeless'
> King of England.
>
> She is also reportedly the 10th Great-Grandmother of Diana, Princess of
> Wales.
> --
>
> D. Spencer Hines
What I have:
Selected Descendants of Æthelred II of England
1 Æthelred II of England 968 - 1016 aka: "Ethelred the Unready"
+Aelfgifu 968 - aka: Alffaed
2 Ælfgifu 997 -
+Uchtred of Northumberland 989 - 1016
3 Ealdgyth of Northumbria 1010 -
+Maldred Mormaer 1005 - 1045 aka: Earl of Dunbar
4 Gospatrick of Northumberland 1040 - 1075 aka: 1st Earl of Dunbar
+
*2nd Wife of Gospatrick of Northumberland:
+Aethelreda of England 1042 -
5 Gospatrick II de Dunbar - 1138 aka: Earl of Dunbar
+Sybil Morel
6 Juliana de Dunbar
+Ralph de Merlay - 1160 aka: Lord of Morpeth
7 Roger de Merlay - 1188
+Alice de Stuteville
8 Agnes de Merlay
+Richard Gobion - 1230
9 Hugh Gobion - 1275
+Matilda
10 Joan Gobion
+John de Morteyn - 1296
11 John de Morteyn - 1346
+Joan de Rothwell
12 Lucy de Morteyn - 1360/61
+John Giffard 1301 - 1368/69
13 Thomas Giffard 1345 - 1394 aka: Knt.
+Elizabeth de Missenden - 1367
14 Roger Giffard 1367 - 1409
+Joan de Bereford
*2nd Wife of Roger Giffard:
+Elizabeth - 1407
*3rd Wife of Roger Giffard:
+Isabel Stretle
15 Thomas Giffard 1408 - 1469
+Eleanor Vaux
16 John Gifford 1431 - 1506
+Agnes Wynslow 1439 -
17 Thomas Gifford 1462 - 1511
+Jane Langston - 1534/35 aka: Joan Langston
18 Amy Gifford 1485 -
+Richard Samwell 1480 - 1519
19 Susanna Samwell 1511 -
+Peter Edwards 1490 - 1552
20 Edward Edwards 1537 - 1592
+Ursula Coles 1544 - 1605/06
21 Margaret Edwards 1564 -
+Henry Freeman 1560 -
22 Alice Freeman 1595 - 1664/65
+John Tompson 1585 - 1626
23 Dorothy Tompson 1624 - 1709 aka: Dorothy Thompson
+Thomas Parke - 1709
24 Dorothy Parke 1651/52 -
+Joseph Morgan 1646 - 1704
25 Margaret Morgan
+Ebenezer Hibbard
26 Keziah Hibbard
+Caleb Bishop
27 Lucy Bishop
+Benajah Strong
28 Joseph Strong 1770 - 1812
+Rebecca Young 1779 - 1862
29 Eleanor Strong 1802 - 1863
+John Wood 1785 - 1848
30 Ellen Wood 1831 - 1877
+Franklin H. Work 1819 - 1911
31 Frances Eleanor Work 1857 - 1947
+James Boothby Burke Roche 1851 - 1920 aka: 3d Baron Fermoy
32 Edmund Maurice Burke Roche 1885 - 1955 aka: 4th Baron Fermoy
+Ruth Sylvia Gill 1908 - 1993
33 Frances Ruth Burke Roche 1936 -
+Edward John Spencer 1924 - 1992 aka: 8th Earl Spencer
34 Diana Frances Spencer 1961 - 1997
--
FWIW; AFAIK; IMHO; YMMV; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Regards, Ed Mann mailto:INET...@atlantic.net
References:
Ä = Weis, _Ancestral_Roots_, 7th ed.
AACPW = Roberts & Reitwiesner, _American Ancestors and Cousins of
the Princess of Wales_, [page].
AAP = Roberts, _Ancestors_of_American_Presidents_, [page] or
[Pres. # : page].
BP1 = _Burke's_Presidential_Families_, 1st ed. [page].
BPci = _Burke's_Peerage_, 101st ed., [page].
BRF = Weir, _Britain's_Royal_Families_, [page].
BxP = _Burke's_Dormant_&_Extinct_Peerages_, [page].
EC1 = Redlich, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol I, [page].
EC2 = Langston & Buck, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
EC3 = Buck & Beard, _Emperor_Charlemagne's_Descendants_, Vol II,
[page].
F = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, [page:para].
NK1 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_One_, [page].
NK2 = Roberts, _Notable_Kin_Volume_Two_, [page].
Π= Hardy, Colonial_Families_of_the_Southern_States_of_America, [pg].
PA = Faris, _Plantagenet_Ancestry_, 2d ed. [page:para].
S = Stuart, _Royalty_for_Commoners_, 2d ed. Caveat lector.
W = Weis, _Magna_Charta_Sureties,_1215_, 4th ed.
WFT = Broderbund's World Family Tree CD, [vol]:[num] Caveat lector.
WMC = Wurt's Magna Charta, [vol]:[page] Caveat lector.
Kay Allen AG
Leo van de Pas wrote:
> See remarks in between
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: D. Spencer Hines <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu>
> To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Alice Freeman's Danvers line
>
> > Alice Freeman is reportedly a descendant of AETHELRED II 'The Redeless'
> > King of England.
> >
> I presume this is Alice Freeman who died in 1664?
> Then you are spot on, she is also a descendant of
> Llewellyn Fawr, Prince of Wales, 1173-1240
Leo,
I have searched my database for a possible gateway to Llewellyn Fawr. The only
one I found was the now discredited Joan Harley. Please, whar do you have?
Kay Allen AG
>
> Malcolm II, King of Scots, 954-1034
> Brian Boru, 926-1014
> Richard I, Duke of Normandy, 933-996
> Hugues Capet, King of France, 940-996
> Heinrich I the Fowler, Emperor, 876-936
> Charlemagne 742-814
>
> > She is also reportedly the 10th Great-Grandmother of Diana, Princess of
> > Wales.
Leo van de Pas
You have just massacred my line. I must have the same line as you had. Can
you tell me what is wrong about Joan Harley and then I will sever my line as
well.
Many thanks
Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: Kay Allen AG <all...@pacbell.net>
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> You have just massacred my line. I must have the same line as you had. Can
> you tell me what is wrong about Joan Harley and then I will sever my line as
> well.
It is a case of the names-the-same error. The Joan Harley from whom
Alice Freeman descends was mistakenly identified with another woman of
the same name, but of a different county and with various noble and
royal connections (by coincidence, this latter Joan Harley is an
authentic ancestress of immigrant Robert Abell). This all appeared in
The Genealogist a decade or so ago.
taf
Reedpcgen
was an article on this line in The Genealogist.
Paul C. Reed
Todd A. Farmerie
>
> Actually, the decsent from either Joan de Harley is now likely missed. There
> was an article on this line in The Genealogist.
What is the problem with the Abell line? I know about the two
immigrants named Robert, which places into question which of two New
England residents is the one found in George Abell's will, and also the
dubious paternity of Joan's children (or am I confusing generations),
but is the link between George's son and Joan Harley questioned as well?
Or is the problem with the line from Joan to Llywellyn, due to the
problematic maternity of Ll's daughters?
taf
D. Spencer Hines
DeForest Bogart [1899-1957] the superb actor.
The lady did get around.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"Much have I travelled in the realms of gold, And many goodly states and
kingdoms seen; Round many western islands have I been, Which bards in
fealty to Apollo hold." -- John Keats [1795-1821] -- Poems [1817] -- "On
First Looking Into Chapman's Homer"
All replies to the newsgroup please. Thank you kindly.
All original material contained herein is copyright and property of the
author. It may be quoted only in discussions on this forum and with an
attribution to the author, unless permission is otherwise expressly
given, in writing.
Vires et Honor.
"Leo van de Pas" <leov...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:006f01c035f5$e5fe93e0$6400a8c0@leo...
| Dear Kay,
| You have just massacred my line. I must have the same line as you had.
Can
| you tell me what is wrong about Joan Harley and then I will sever my
line as
| well.
| Many thanks
| Leo
|
| ----- Original Message -----
| From: Kay Allen AG <all...@pacbell.net>
| To: Leo van de Pas <leov...@iinet.net.au>
| Cc: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
| Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 11:45 PM
| Subject: Re: Alice Freeman's Danvers line
|
|
| > Comment interspersed.
| >
| > Leo van de Pas wrote:
| >
Gryphon801
through the marriage of Sir Richard Lacon (d. by 8 Oct. 1446) to Elizabeth de
Peshall, through their great-granddaughter Joan Lacon (d. 1524), wife of Sir
John Mainwaring of Ightfield. See TG 5:158-71 and 10:35-72. Work is still
continuing to try to identify Joan, wife of Robert Abell, and to determine
whether he returned to England for a period in the 1630s or whether we have
another John Drake problem here.
U...@aol.com
D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu writes:
<< Alice Freeman is reportedly a descendant of AETHELRED II 'The Redeless'
King of England.
Direct Descendants of ÆTHELRED II King of England
1 ÆTHELRED II King of England b: 968 d: 23 April 1016 in London,
ENG
... +ÆLGIFU of Wessex b: Abt. 968 m: 985 d: 1002
2 ÆLFGIFU of England b: Abt. 989
... +UCHTRED of Northumbria b: 989 d: 1016 in murdered
3 EALDGYTH of Northumbria b: Bet. 1010 - 1015 in Northumberland, ENG
... +MALDRED FitzCrinan b: 1005 in of Dunbar, East Lothian, SCT d:
1045 in Slain in battle
4 GOSPATRIC of Northumbria b: 1040 in Northumberland, ENG d: 15
December 1072 in Ubbanford, SCT
... +ÆTHELREDA of England b: Abt. 1042 in of Dunbar, East Lothian, SCT
m: Abt. 1057
5 GOSPATRICK II de Dunbar d: 22 August 1138 in Battle of
Standard, North Allerton
... +Sybil MOREL
6 JULIANA de Dunbar
... +RALPH de Merlay d: 1160
7 ROGER de Merlay d: 1188
... +ALICE de Stuteville
8 AGNES de Merlay
... +Richard GOBION d: Bef. 29 December 1230 in Gascony
9 Hugh GOBION d: 1275
... +Matilda
10 Joan GOBION
... +JOHN de Morteyn b: in of Tilsworth & Marston, BDF, ENG d:
1296
11 JOHN de Morteyn d: 1346
... +JOAN de Rothwell
12 LUCY de Morteyn d: Aft. 08 March 1360/61
... +John GIFFARD, Sir b: 1301 in of Twyford, Bucks, ENG d: 25
January 1368/69
13 Thomas GIFFARD, Sir b: Abt. 1345 in Twyford, Bucks, ENG d: 25
September 1394
... +ELIZABETH de Missenden m: Abt. 1361 d: Abt. 1367
14 Roger GIFFARD b: Abt. 1367 in Twyford, Bucks, ENG d: 14
April 1409
... +Isabel STRETELE m: Bef. 1408
15 Thomas GIFFORDE, Sir b: 1408 in Fringford, OXF, ENG d: 29
May 1469 in Twyford, BKM, ENG
... +Eleanor VAUX b: Abt. 1410
16 John GIFFORD b: Abt. 1431 d: Bef. September 1506
... +Agnes WINSLOW b: Abt. 1439 m: Abt. 1460
17 Thomas GIFFORD b: in Of Twyford, BKM, ENG d: Aft. 10
October 1511
... +Jane LANGSTON d: Aft. 1511
18 Anna GIFFORD b: Abt. 1488
... +Richard SAMWELL b: Abt. 1484 in of Edgecote, NTH, ENG d: 03
May 1519
19 Susanna SAMWELL b: in Of Petersborough, NTH, ENG
... +Peter EDWARDS b: Abt. 1490 in Of Petersborough, NTH, ENG m: Abt.
1536 d: Abt. 1552
20 Edward EDWARDS b: Abt. 1537 in Of Preston Capes, SFK, ENG
d: Bet. 25 December 1591 - 16 September 1592 in Alwalton, HUN, ENG
... +Ursula COLES b: Abt. 1544 in Of Preston Capes, SFK, ENG d:
Abt. 02 February 1605/06 in Alwalton, HUN, ENG
21 Margaret EDWARDS b: 1574
... +Henry FREEMAN b: Abt. 1560 in of Cranford, NTH, ENG m: 25
December 1591 in NTH, ENG
22 Alice FREEMAN b: in Cranford, NTH, ENG d: 11 February
1663/64 in New London, CT
She is also reportedly the 10th Great-Grandmother of Diana, Princess of
Wales.
Direct Descendants of Alice FREEMAN
1 Alice FREEMAN b: in Cranford, NTH, ENG d: 11 February
1663/64 in New London, CT
... +John THOMPSON b: Abt. 1580 in Little Preston, Preston Capes,
England m: Bef. 01 April 1616 d: 06 November 1626 in London, England
2 Dorothy THOMPSON b: Abt. 05 July 1624 in Preston Capes, NTH, ENG
d: Aft. 30 July 1709 in Preston, New London, CT
... +Thomas PARKE b: 03 June 1615 in Preston, SFK, ENG m: Abt. 28
October 1644 in Roxbury, MA d: 30 July 1709 in Mystic, CT
3 Dorothy Parke b: 06 March 1651/52 in New London, CT d: in
Preston, CT
... +Joseph Morgan, Lt. b: 29 October 1646 in Roxbury, MA m: 26 April
1670 in New London, CT d: 05 April 1704 in Preston, CT
4 Margaret Morgan b: 28 July 1686
... +Ebenezer Hibbard b: Bef. 1670
5 Keziah Hibbard b: 19 May 1722 in Windham, CT
... +Caleb Bishop b: 16 March 1715/16 in Norwich, CT m: 19 April 1739
in Norwich, CT d: 16 February 1785 in Guilford, CT
6 Lucy Bishop b: 21 December 1747 in Norwich, CT d: 27 November
1783 in Coventry, CT
... +Benajah Strong b: 13 October 1740 in Coventry, CT m: 09 March 1769
in Coventry, CT d: 25 November 1809 in Coventry, CT
7 Joseph Strong, Dr. b: 10 March 1770 in South Coventry, CT d: 24
April 1812 in Philadelphia, PA
... +Rebecca Young b: 05 May 1779 in Philadelphia, PA m: 08 September
1796 d: 1862
8 Eleanor Strong b: Abt. 1802 in Philadelphia, PA d: 09 July
1863 in New York, NY
... +John Wood b: 29 July 1785 in Shepherdstown, Jefferson, VA m: 13
March 1823 in Chillicothe, OH d: 29 January 1848 in Chillicothe, OH
9 Ellen Wood b: 18 July 1831 in Chillicothe, OH d: 22 February
1877 in new York, NY
... +Franklin H. Work b: 10 February 1819 in Chillicothe, OH m: 19
February 1857 in New York, NY d: 16 March 1911 in New York, NY
10 Frances Eleanor Work b: 27 October 1857 in New York, NY
d: 26 January 1947 in New York, NY
... +James Boothby Burke Roche b: 28 July 1851 in Twyford Abbey, MDX,
ENG m: 22 September 1880 in New York, NY d: 30 October 1920 in Artillery
Mansions, Westminster, London, ENG
11 Edmund Maurice Burke Roche b: 15 May 1885 in Chelsea, ENG
d: 08 July 1955 in King's Lynn, ENG
... +Ruth Sylvia Gill b: 02 October 1908 in Dalhebity, Bieldside,
Aberdeenshire, ENG m: 17 September 1931 in Bieldside, St. Devenick's,
Aberdeenshire d: 06 July 1993
12 Frances Ruth Burke Roche b: 20 January 1936 in Park House,
Sandringham, ENG
... +Edward John Spencer, Sir b: 24 January 1924 in Sussex Square,
London, ENG m: 01 June 1954 in Westminster Abbey, London, ENG d: 29 March
1992 in London, ENG
13 Diana Frances Spencer b: 01 July 1961 in Park House,
Sandringham, ENG d: 31 August 1997 in Paris, FRA
...
Always optimistic--Dave
stephanie...@gmail.com
Warmly,
Stephanie Ann
taf
> I am a descendant of Alice Freeman, and something about the line has always
> puzzled me. Why is it that we say "a descendant of Athelred the Unredy" and
> not "of Alfred the Great"?
taf
Peter Stewart
It reflects an infantile narcissistic outlook: 'I am the object of all my ancestry and the kings in it are a measure of my luminous splendour, therefore the closest one is the best reflector'.
Peter Stewart
jmb...@albion.edu
J+
Peter Stewart
> Basic human narcissism notwithstanding, my intent in finding a most-recent royal ancestor is the proven documentation. Proven connection to a well-documented elite class may be rewarding because of the “elite” (as you imply, pessimistically) or the “well-documented” (as I like to believe, optimistically). But of course, why do I want a “well-documented,” extensive record of relatives? Narcissism. Just like all of us.
And as for your "Just like all of us" - this is plain wrong, as personal ancestry is definitely NOT the only motivation for an interest in medieval genealogy. Some people do not care a fig for a remote blood connection to anyone, high or low, who has no direct (or even palpable indirect) effect in their lives. You may consider this a different kind of narcissism, though taking an interest in one's own relatives close to the present is common if not universal among the most humble and modest people as well as among braggarts and egotists.
This of course is why relationships between medieval people can be of interest without reference to their modern descendants.
Peter Stewart
jmb...@albion.edu
As for the terminology “best,” I agree that it appears to evoke braggart-like qualities, regardless of intention. But: (a) most personal genealogies are benignly self-serving anyway; and (b) the term “best” is a concise (though annoyingly provocative) adjective that has beaten out “latest” or “most recent” in common usage.
TL;DR I would be happy to help lead the change in terminology, but I’m not going to assume an infantile narcissistic outlook for everyone that uses it.
J+
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
jmb...@albion.edu
gawin...@gmail.com
gawin...@gmail.com
I am only pointing this out because I don't want to be "complicit" in allowing your very rude & pompous statements to go by unnoticed.
Peter Stewart
> I am only pointing this out because I don't want to be "complicit" in allowing your very rude & pompous statements to go by unnoticed.
In the case of "best" royal descent, there are people here who have plainly never taken the time to reflect on what finding a documented line of medieval ancestry actually means as opposed to not finding one (or not looking for one), which is virtually nil. Everyone has medieval ancestry, and no-one's line to any individual is in any way creditable. It is not earned, though its discovery may be - yet the boasts aired here here are always about the result and not the process.
Peter Stewart
gawin...@gmail.com
> On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 5:28:25 AM UTC+10, gawin...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 8:50:55 PM UTC-5, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > > On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 11:25:36 AM UTC+10, jmb...@albion.edu wrote:
> > > > Of course you are right; my apologies. Studying medieval genealogy may be a function of medieval historianship, regardless of personal connection. I was referring (non-judgmentally) to the recent post, which claimed a personal descent from Alice; and all of us who do our own personal genealogies.
> > > >
> > > > As for the terminology “best,” I agree that it appears to evoke braggart-like qualities, regardless of intention. But: (a) most personal genealogies are benignly self-serving anyway; and (b) the term “best” is a concise (though annoyingly provocative) adjective that has beaten out “latest” or “most recent” in common usage.
> > > >
> > > > TL;DR I would be happy to help lead the change in terminology, but I’m not going to assume an infantile narcissistic outlook for everyone that uses it.
> > >
> > > You are what you go along with - in this case, just as in the debasement of everyone (including 62 million voters) complicit in the Trump presidency. Language and events can have very sweeping moral consequences.
> > >
> > > Peter Stewart
> >
> > I hardly think using the term "best royal descent" is analogous to what happened in the 2016 U.S. election.
>
> Mindlessness is always analogous to mindlessness. The suggestion was that some people use the term "best" royal descent without thinking about what it implies. In a less offensive way, that is analogous to voting for a howling jackass without thinking about moral principle and placing an indelible stain on your own history.
>
> > I am only pointing this out because I don't want to be "complicit" in allowing your very rude & pompous statements to go by unnoticed.
>
> Whether anyone notices or not a post of mine is of little concern to me - I place them here for the archive more than for purposes of discussion, as it appears that few current readers share my particular interests. Some of my statements no doubt view seem rude to people who are used to mealy-mouthed communication, as I make no bones about saying what I think, including self-criticism when I think it warranted that is as harsh as anything I say about others.
#2 It is possible to be polite without being mealy-mouthed.
>
> In the case of "best" royal descent, there are people here who have plainly never taken the time to reflect on what finding a documented line of medieval ancestry actually means as opposed to not finding one (or not looking for one), which is virtually nil. Everyone has medieval ancestry, and no-one's line to any individual is in any way creditable. It is not earned, though its discovery may be - yet the boasts aired here here are always about the result and not the process.
>
> Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 4:37:16 PM UTC-5, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 5:28:25 AM UTC+10, gawin...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 8:50:55 PM UTC-5, Peter Stewart wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 11:25:36 AM UTC+10, jmb...@albion.edu wrote:
> > > > > Of course you are right; my apologies. Studying medieval genealogy may be a function of medieval historianship, regardless of personal connection. I was referring (non-judgmentally) to the recent post, which claimed a personal descent from Alice; and all of us who do our own personal genealogies.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for the terminology “best,” I agree that it appears to evoke braggart-like qualities, regardless of intention. But: (a) most personal genealogies are benignly self-serving anyway; and (b) the term “best” is a concise (though annoyingly provocative) adjective that has beaten out “latest” or “most recent” in common usage.
> > > > >
> > > > > TL;DR I would be happy to help lead the change in terminology, but I’m not going to assume an infantile narcissistic outlook for everyone that uses it.
> > > >
> > > > You are what you go along with - in this case, just as in the debasement of everyone (including 62 million voters) complicit in the Trump presidency. Language and events can have very sweeping moral consequences.
> > > >
> > > > Peter Stewart
> > >
> > > I hardly think using the term "best royal descent" is analogous to what happened in the 2016 U.S. election.
> >
> > Mindlessness is always analogous to mindlessness. The suggestion was that some people use the term "best" royal descent without thinking about what it implies. In a less offensive way, that is analogous to voting for a howling jackass without thinking about moral principle and placing an indelible stain on your own history.
>
> But the person who made that statement to clearly understand the meaning of "best" after having it explained to him. So he clearly wasn't mindless when he stated he would continue using nit. Just because "some" people use the term without thinking about what it is implies doesn't mean "all" people do. Yet you chose to put in him in the first category. In other words, *you* are the mindless one here.
>
> >
> > > I am only pointing this out because I don't want to be "complicit" in allowing your very rude & pompous statements to go by unnoticed.
> >
> > Whether anyone notices or not a post of mine is of little concern to me - I place them here for the archive more than for purposes of discussion, as it appears that few current readers share my particular interests. Some of my statements no doubt view seem rude to people who are used to mealy-mouthed communication, as I make no bones about saying what I think, including self-criticism when I think it warranted that is as harsh as anything I say about others.
>
> #1 It seems nothing is of concern to you but your ego.
>
> #2 It is possible to be polite without being mealy-mouthed.
Peter Stewart