Hender of Botreaux Castle ancestry

[Jim Baker]

Hello,

I am a long time sideline observer of the fascinating discussions on this board, but this is my first time actually posting. I am interested if anyone knows of any scholarly work done or investigations made into the supposed royal ancestry of the Hender family of Botreaux Castle. The Visitations of Cornwall indicate that William Hender (d.1613) of Botreaux Castle (husband of Agnes Newcourt) was a descendant through unnamed generations of David (Hendower) Hender and his wife Margaret, "daughter and heiress of John de Cornwall." (Some sources I have seen online contend that David's wife was named Isabel de Cornwall.) If this is correct, and John de Cornwall can be identified as the grandson of Walter of Cornwall (1250-1313), himself a grandson of John, King of England, then the Hender family has royal ancestry.

This may have implications for gateway ancestry, because of the relationship (through William and Agnes' son John Hender) to the Thorne family, and hence Susanna (Thorne) Dudley and her son, Gov. Thomas Dudley of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Personally, my family may also have a connection, through William and Agnes' daughter Julian (Hender) Arscott, grandmother of John Kete, vicar of Madron, Cornwall.

If anyone notices my post, I would be most grateful for any discussion, or even a reference to work done to refute or prove this possible ancestry.

Respectfully,
James M. Baker

[hoove...@yahoo.com]

Mr. Baker,

This family also has implications for the genealogy of the British royal family, since as you may be aware, John Hender and his wife Jane Thorne are ancestors of Princes William and Harry.

As a long-time observer of discussions here, you've seen Gary Boyd Roberts mentioned -- an American genealogical scholar who specializes in a number of areas, one being the ancestry of US Presidents. His most recent edition on the topic, _Ancestors of American Presidents_ 2009 edition, includes an appendix covering "Kinships Through American Forebears Between Fifteen U.S. Presidents ... and the Present British Royal Family via the Late H. M. Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and the Late Diana, Princess of Wales." Although this doesn't answer your question, and this is all I know about the Henders, perhaps you or others might be interested in the ancestral link to the princes,

Thomas Dorne, alias Thorne, d. 1588, of Yardley Hastings, Northants
Mary Purefoy
/
Jane Thorne
John Hender
/
Frances Hender
Richard Robartes, 1st Baron Robartes
/
Hon. Jane Robartes
Charles Lambart, 1st Earl of Cavan
/
Hon. Oliver Lambart
Eleanor Crane
/
Dorothy Lambart
Sir Edward Bayly, 1st Bt.
/
Sir Nicholas Bayly, 2nd Bt.
Caroline Paget
/
Henry Bayly, later Paget, 1st Earl of Uxbridge
Jane Champagne
/
Henry William Paget, 1st Marquess of Anglesey
Lady Caroline Elizabeth Villiers
/
Lady Caroline Paget
Charles Gordon-Lennox, 5th Duke of Richmond and Lennox
/
Lady Cecilia Catherine Gordon-Lennox
George Bingham, 4th Earl of Lucan
/
Lady Rosalind Cecilia Caroline Bingham
James Albert Edward Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn
/
Lady Cynthia Elinor Beatrix Hamilton
Albert Edward John Spencer, 7th Earl Spencer
/
Edward John Spencer, 8th Earl Spencer
Hon. Frances Ruth Burke Roche
/
Lady Diana Frances Spencer, later HRH The Princess of Wales
HRH Prince Charles Philip Arthur George of Great Britain, Prince of Wales

The presidential connection in this case is to Herbert Hoover, a descendant of Jane Thorne Hender's sister Susanna Thorne and her husband Roger Dudley.

Best wishes,
Marc Hoover

[jmb...@albion.edu]

Mr. Hoover,
Yes, now that you mention it, I do recall that link to Lady Diana. I do own Gary Boyd Roberts' latest edition of AAP, as well as Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry and his new Royal Ancestry. That does give me hope that someone has investigated, or will, the Hender ancestry. I will keep looking.

As for my personal interest in the line, just for anyone's information, I am still seeking one more proof: the vicar John Kete that I mentioned in my original post had a daughter Mary (chr.1639) who married Christopher Veale (chr.1640). I have a proven ancestor named Sampson Veale (chr. 1690) who was a son of a Christopher Veale by an unnamed wife. He is almost certainly not Mary Keate Veale's son (she would be over 50 at the time, and Sampson had another sibling born after 1700), but I have hypothesized that Sampson may be a grandson of Mary. IF this is the case (a big "if"), then Sampson's great-great granddaughter, Mary Ann Richards (1813-1897), is my immigrant gateway ancestor.

Thanks very much for your reply,
Jim Baker+

[Wjhonson]

What relationship between Hender and Dudley ?

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[jmb...@albion.edu]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply a Hender ancestry for Dudley himself: Thomas Dudley's mother, Susanna Thorne, a sister-in-law of John Hender. However, as Marc notes, John is an ancestor to Diana Spencer.

[susan....@gmail.com]

Hi I am from the Hinder side - hoping to make a connection with Captain Edward Hinder possibly.
My family are traditionally from Helston.
If you have any of the Hender family tree I would be really keen to see it please as Iam finding it really hard to trace my family.
Thanks
Susan Hinder

[Mark]

On Sunday, 19 May 2013 12:51:03 UTC+10, jmb...@albion.edu wrote:
>
> As for my personal interest in the line, just for anyone's information, I am still seeking one more proof: the vicar John Kete that I mentioned in my original post had a daughter Mary (chr.1639) who married Christopher Veale (chr.1640). I have a proven ancestor named Sampson Veale (chr. 1690) who was a son of a Christopher Veale by an unnamed wife. He is almost certainly not Mary Keate Veale's son (she would be over 50 at the time, and Sampson had another sibling born after 1700), but I have hypothesized that Sampson may be a grandson of Mary. IF this is the case (a big "if"), then Sampson's great-great granddaughter, Mary Ann Richards (1813-1897), is my immigrant gateway ancestor.
>
>
>

> Jim Baker+

Interesting ... I have a descent from a daughter of Humphrey Veale.
In relation to the first post in this thread, how were the Arscotts connected to the Ketes?

Mark

[jmb...@albion.edu]

Mark, sorry for taking so long to reply. As of right now, my only reference for the Kete-Arscott-Hender connection is Vivian's Visitations of Cornwall and Devon, and my Veale statistics come from the LDS databases, so.... take this with a skeptical eye. Julian Hender, daughter of William Hender and Agnes Newcourt, and wife of William Arscott, was the mother of Anne Arscott (d.1614) who married Raphe Kete (d.1636). Their son John Kete, or Keate, was baptized in St. Columb on 30 July 1603. John was Vicar of Madron from about 1630 until his death of plague in Nanceglos in 1647, which I found in the Madron Parish Registers. He was married to Elizabeth Fleming (daughter of Thomas) and was the father of the Mary Keate (b.1639) who married Christopher Veale on 29 June 1667 in Ludgvan. Christopher Veale was christened 23 Feb 1640 in St. Erth, a son of Humphrey Veale and Jane Heyne.

Now, I have traced my ancestry back to a certain Sampson Veale, christened 20 June 1691 in St. Erth, father's name Christopher Veale, no mother given. This Sampson had three younger brothers as well, the youngest born in 1705. This is obviously too late for them to be the children of Christopher Veale and Mary Keate, but some connection is likely; Christopher (son of Humphrey) also had a brother named Sampson. It is possible that Christopher (father of the 1691 Sampson and his brothers) is a son of Christopher (1640) and Mary Keate; or that the two Christophers are the same, but with a different mother (Mary Keate Veale is unlikely to be having children at age 66!); or that they are related in some other way. This is the main puzzle I'm trying to untangle for my personal genealogy, but the connection of the Henders to the house of Cornwall (see my first post) was why I posted here.

Thanks for your interest, and again, sorry for the late reply.
Jim+

[jmb...@albion.edu]

Susan, I'm sorry, but the only info I currently have on the Hender family is from the (unreliable) Visitations of Cornwall and Devon, by Vivian. If you want to look through them, the full texts are online at Google Books <books.google.com>
Good luck,
Jim+