John Prescott royal ancestry
Dora Smith
either questioned, or dismissed. I found the following last night while
looking for the rest of my Dickinson stuff. (I'll have to post that next
week after I check out that NEHGS article.) I don't know which of several
books on the royal ancestry of New England colonists it came from, but it
contains excellent documentation. I'll start at the point where Alice
Harington marries Ralph Standish, since it would surprise me if anyone
questions the lineage from the Harington's back. Unless someone wants to
tell me the Harington's were invented - like royal porphyria and Walter de
Caen! I totally expect to see someone post something to that effect.
Someone usually does. No, I'm not going to argue. I'm letting you know I'm
on to you.
"Alice Harington, b ca 1480, living 1537; m. ca. 16 Aug. 1498, RALPH
STANDISH, ESQ. (170-35) [this might be his location elsewhere in the same
book]; of Standish, b. ca. 1479 (ae. 28 in 1507), d. 1538, eldest son and
h. of Sir Alexander Standish, Knt., of Standish, and Sibyl de Bold, dau.
of Sir Henry Bold, Knt., of Bold. (VCH Lanc. III 424, VI 194, VIII 202;
Visit. of Lancashire (1533); Inq.p.m., Sir James Harington, 14 Nov. 1498;
Publications of the Chetham Society, vol. 98 (1876); J.P. Earwaker, The
Standish Family of Standish and Duxbury, co. Lancaster, Charters and Deeds
(Manchester, 1898), No. 182, p. 61; No. 218, p. 65; Frederick L. Weis: The
Families of Standish of Standish and Prescott of Prescott of Standish
Parish, Lancashire, England (1948) (typed ms.), 203 pp. cf.pp. 43-49, at
the American Antiquarrian Soc., Worcester, Mass.)
39. Roger Standish, Esq., of Standish, co. Lancaster, mentioned in
Earwaker, op. cit, No. 218, p. 65, dated 24 Mar. 1513/4, as third son o
Ralph Standish, Esq. of Standish. The visitation of Berkshire, A. D.
1566, under "Standyshe of Wantage" gives the following: "Roger Standyshe
of Standyshe, co. Lanc., Esq. had issue. -- Rauffe, his eldest son and
heir; and three daus., whereof one mar. ___ Prescott, and antoher mar. to
___ Barnes." (Genealogist, II 106; pedigrees of Standish of Standish and
Prescott of Prescott in the Lancaster Collection, Lancaster Town Library,
Lancaster, Mass., compiled from records, deeds and wills by the Rev. John
Holding, of Stotford, Baldock, co. Hertford, 1902).
40. Alice Standish, buried at Standish, 1564; m. James Prescott of
standish; Shevington and Coppull, co. Lancaster, b. 1508, d. 1568, son of
William and Alice Prescott. The Visitation of Berkshire, A.D. 1566, a
contemporary record, explicitly states taht she was the dau. of Roger
Standish, Esq.
41. Roger Prescott, second son, of Shevington, d. Sep 1594, will made 26
Sep 1594; m. (1) an Elizabeth; m. (2) 23 Aug. 1568, Ellen Shaw of
Standish. Will pro. at Chester, 1 Oct 1594; to be buried in the parish
church of Standish; wife Elene, son Ralph, nephew Alexander Wynnard, daus.
Isabel, Ellen, and Anne.
42. Ralph Prescott, of Shevington in Standish Parish, only son of Roger
and Ellen (Shaw) Prescott; mentioned in his father's will and co-executor
with his mother, 1594; b. ca. 1571/2, though the bapt. is not found on the
Standish Parish register, d. 1608/9; m. Helen, living 1608. Will dated 7
Dec. 1608, pro. at Chester, 24 Jan. 1608/9, mentions legacies to wife
Elene, three yougest daus. Elene, lice and Cecilie, and (if it please his
wife) he desired her to leave her share to his son John Prescott.
Inventory: 12 Jan. 16008/9: pounds 117-2-4.
* * *
The identification of John Prescott of Lancaster, Mass. with the son,
John, of Ralph of Shevington is still challenged. See TAG 34: 180 and
elsewhere. While evidence is not conclusive, the alternatives are not
conclusive, either. This line requires further work.
43. John Prescott, founder of Lancaster, Mass., 1645, b.ca.1604; made his
own will, 1673,pro.4 Apr 1682, d. Lancaster, Mass., Dec. 1681; perh. the
one who m. Halifax, co. York, 11 Apr 1629, Mary Platts, bapt. Sowerby
Parish, Halfiax, co York, 15 Mar. 1607; d. Lancaster, Mass., aft. 1678,
dau of Abraham and Martha (Riley) Gawkroger-Platts. The deposition of Mary
Prescott of Lancaster dated 1678, when she was 66 yrs or thereabaouts
(NEHGR 95:8, in Middlesex Co. files) identifies John Prescott of
Lancaster, Mass., with Halifax, Yorkshire, where his children were
baptized., while the will of his reputed father RALPH No. 42 does not
identify him with the Prescott and STandish families of Standish Parish in
co. Lancaster, Egn. (Presctott Memorial (1870), 32-40; Ancestry of John
Barber White (1913), 107-28, pedigrees of Fleming and Harington, 107-112,
Standish and Prescott, 102-104, 122-128, are based upon the research of
Mr. Holding, but the other pedigrees in this section of Ancestry of John
Barber White are dubious or defective. For fullest details and authorities
now available see: Weis, the Families of Standish of Standish and Prescott
of Prescott of Standish Parish, Lancashire, England, ms., typed, 203 pp.,
1948, cf. 43-49, 53054, 58-60, 67-68, 78-79, 84-88. This work uses the 400
deeds, charters, inquisitions, marriage settlements, etc. of West,
Earwaker, Mrs. Tempest, Porteus, the VCH Lanc. (8 vo9ls), Baines and the
Rev. John Holding, and gives more than 500 of the ancestors of Roger
Standish in charts, pp. 151-203).
The way I understand this, the nature of the problem is that John
Prescott, proven to be from an area that contained a village named
Prescott and hence quite possibly more than one family of that name, has
not been proven to have been teh John Prescott proven to have lived in the
same area who was the son of Ralph Prescott. A problem of this nature
occurred to me concerning people with the name Standish form a village
named Standish. But surely it shouldn't be too difficult to establish
whether another John Prescott the right age existed in that group of
villages, particularly since this one was, I have somewhere, a blacksmith,
and was not a young man when he came to Massachusetts, indeed this article
says that his children were born in Lancaster. I'm accepting the lineage
until I see evidence to the contrary. John Prescott of Massachusetts even
seems to have been a somewhat quixotic individual with some interest
consistent with owning a suit of armor! A man like that would seemingly
have had a reputation where he previously lived. He may even have
previously belonged to one of those local militia units that existed all
over England in those times, or be recorded as having contributed toward
raising armies, etc. So it shouldn't be impossible to find him - if he
was really a separate individual.
Yours,
Dora Smith
cl...@freenet.buffalo.edu
dora...@usa.net
Kay Allen AG
May I respectfully suggest that you go the archives and read the
previous post, some rather heated, as to why John Prescott of Lancaster
is NOT the same John mentioned in the will.
You may hang on to this ancestry if you wish, that is your right.
However, as a Prescott descendent who lived in a town very close to
Lancaster, MA, I consider that this ancestry has joined that of John
Drake of CT, in the Land-of-Wishful-Thinking.
Kay Allen AG
Vickie Elam White
> Unless someone wants to tell me the Harington's were invented - like
> royal porphyria and Walter de Caen! I totally expect to see someone
> post something to that effect. Someone usually does. No, I'm not going
> to argue. I'm letting you know I'm on to you.
And I'm letting you know that, if you keep that large chip on your
shoulder,
you won't find too many folks here willing to help you.
Vickie Elam White
10265...@compuserve.com
ROBERT E. BOWMAN
around Lancaster Mass in a "suit of armour".
Of course, if an Indian, or anyone else, sneaked up behind him and pushed
him over in a "suit of armour" he would have a tough time getting up and
defending himself. If he were pushed into a pond, brook stream etc he could
be made to drown before he got up--if he could.
Suits of armor were not for stomping around the back woods on foot. By
Prescott's day they were pretty much ceremonial things.
Some say that since Prescott was a blacksmith he must have made himself a
suit of armor. It takes special steel and special skills to make suits of
armor and there is not reasonto think Prescott had either.
Suits of armor in their day were made for men on horseback.
Robert Bowman
Leo van de Pas
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Austin <Brian....@btinternet.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 7:52 AM
Subject: Armour (was John Prescott royal ancestry)
> I'm sorry but this idea that armour was so heavy that it was difficult to
> get up is quite untrue. Armoured knights were perfectly capable of getting
> off the ground unaided. There was an example of this in one of the "Time
> Team" programmes a few years ago when a member of the "White Company"
> (medieval re-enactors) in full armour, threw himself on the ground and got
> up straight away.
> Brian Austin
Dear Brian,
Those armours, what were they made of? Plastic? Somewhere I have a story
of (I think a) Sforza, in armour seated on his horse, while crossing a
river, tried to pull up one of his soldiers but fell off and as he could not
get up,
he drowned.
Best wishes
Leo van de Pas
> ROBERT E. BOWMAN wrote in message
> <199909171720_...@compuserve.com>...
Patrick Cracroft-Brennan
Just shows how you can easily make a mistake on here...read the heading
of this article and assumed, quite naturally, that it was referring to
John Prescott, the current Deputy Prime Minister of the UK, not some
17th century colonist.
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.990917105711.18747A-
100...@freenet.buffalo.edu>, Dora Smith <cl...@freenet.buffalo.edu>
writes
Patrick Cracroft-Brennan HonFHS FSA(Scot)
Managing Director - Heraldic Media Limited
Publishers of "Cracroft's Peerage"
Tel: 0181-871 4659
Fax: 0870 0522631
E-mail: herald...@kwtelecom.com
Web site: http://www.kwtelecom.com/hmedia/
Brian Austin
get up is quite untrue. Armoured knights were perfectly capable of getting
off the ground unaided. There was an example of this in one of the "Time
Team" programmes a few years ago when a member of the "White Company"
(medieval re-enactors) in full armour, threw himself on the ground and got
up straight away.
Brian Austin
Renia Simmonds
> Dora Smith apparently believes the account which has John Prescott marching
> around Lancaster Mass in a "suit of armour".
>
> Of course, if an Indian, or anyone else, sneaked up behind him and pushed
> him over in a "suit of armour" he would have a tough time getting up and
> defending himself. If he were pushed into a pond, brook stream etc he could
> be made to drown before he got up--if he could.
>
> Suits of armor were not for stomping around the back woods on foot. By
> Prescott's day they were pretty much ceremonial things.
>
> Some say that since Prescott was a blacksmith he must have made himself a
> suit of armor. It takes special steel and special skills to make suits of
> armor and there is not reasonto think Prescott had either.
>
> Suits of armor in their day were made for men on horseback.
>
> Robert Bowman
I could interject, here, and ask, which John Prescott are we talking about? The
British Deputy Prime Minister, or someone else?
Renia
Séimí mac Liam
Patrick Cracroft-Brennan wrote in message
<9efG5BAM...@londwill.demon.co.uk>...
>
>Patrick Cracroft-Brennan HonFHS FSA(Scot)
>Managing Director - Heraldic Media Limited
>Publishers of "Cracroft's Peerage"
>Tel: 0181-871 4659
>Fax: 0870 0522631
>E-mail: herald...@kwtelecom.com
>Web site: http://www.kwtelecom.com/hmedia/
Hello Patrick, long time no see. I notice you are publishing "Cracroft's
Peerage". What period does it cover? Are there details on your web site?
Jim Woodard
Robert J. O'Hara
colonist, not the current British official) had a suit of armor and used
it in various encounters with the Indians. I'm not an historian of
armament, so can't really evaluate the story's plausibility, but I would
like to establish where the story is first recorded. I have it from
Caleb Butler's _History of the Town of Groton_ which was published in
1848. Does anyone know of an earlier published (or manuscript) source
for the story?
Butler says of John Prescott: "He was a blacksmith by occupation, and
was also a builder of mills. He had in his possession, brought from
England, a coat of mail armour [a long footnote appears here with
anecdotes about the armor], and habiliments complete, such as were worn
by field officers of that day; whence it had been supposed, that he or
some of his ancestors were warriors, and some one of them might have
received the order of knighthood."
Butler is generally a realiable source, but as I say, this particular
story may be a complete fabrication for all I know. But is Butler the
printed source from which all others have since been derived?
It is perhaps interesting to note that Butler also reports a lengthy
romantic tale about the courtship of John Prescott's son Jonas
(1648-1723) and Mary Loker (1653-1735), which says that Mary's father
sent her out of town so that Jonas could not find her. The problem is
that recent sources say that Mary Loker's father John Loker d. 1653, so
Butler's story could not be correct as reported, although it might be
about a step father.
The combination of these two questionable accounts makes me wonder if
there wasn't a particular Prescott storyteller that Butler collected his
information from, and that this storyteller manufactured (or elaborated)
both tales.
Fuller quotations from Butler can be found in the Ahnentafel on my own
genealogy page under John Prescott's entry (which compiles data from
some published sources but does not contain any original research).
Bob O'Hara (rjo...@uncg.edu)
Genealogy page: http://strong.uncg.edu/gen.html
Kay Allen AG
>
> I am quite interested in the story that John Prescott (the Massachusetts
> colonist, not the current British official) had a suit of armor and used
> it in various encounters with the Indians. I'm not an historian of
> armament, so can't really evaluate the story's plausibility, but I would
> like to establish where the story is first recorded. I have it from
> Caleb Butler's _History of the Town of Groton_ which was published in
> 1848. Does anyone know of an earlier published (or manuscript) source
> for the story?
>
> Butler says of John Prescott: "He was a blacksmith by occupation, and
> was also a builder of mills. He had in his possession, brought from
> England, a coat of mail armour [a long footnote appears here with
> anecdotes about the armor], and habiliments complete, such as were worn
> by field officers of that day; whence it had been supposed, that he or
> some of his ancestors were warriors, and some one of them might have
> received the order of knighthood."
If by mail, chain mail is meant, then he could walk around in it. Chain
mail is made from steel rings fastened together in chains which are in
turn fastened together. I can do it, I can't describe it well :-)
Kay Allen AG Prescott descendant
Nathaniel Taylor
>Robert J. O'Hara wrote:
>>
>> I am quite interested in the story that John Prescott (the Massachusetts
>> colonist, not the current British official) had a suit of armor and used
>> it in various encounters with the Indians. I'm not an historian of
>> armament, so can't really evaluate the story's plausibility, but I would
>> like to establish where the story is first recorded. I have it from
>> Caleb Butler's _History of the Town of Groton_ which was published in
>> 1848. Does anyone know of an earlier published (or manuscript) source
>> for the story?
>>
>> Butler says of John Prescott: "He was a blacksmith by occupation, and
>> was also a builder of mills. He had in his possession, brought from
>> England, a coat of mail armour [a long footnote appears here with
>> anecdotes about the armor], and habiliments complete, such as were worn
>> by field officers of that day; whence it had been supposed, that he or
>> some of his ancestors were warriors, and some one of them might have
>> received the order of knighthood."
>
>If by mail, chain mail is meant, then he could walk around in it. Chain
>mail is made from steel rings fastened together in chains which are in
>turn fastened together. I can do it, I can't describe it well :-)
>
>Kay Allen AG Prescott descendant
Kay,
"I can do it...": does that mean you make the stuff, or walk around in
it? Either way you take after John quite well...
Nat Taylor
Laurie Brandt
steel grives, knees, thighs, shoulders, elbows and mitten gauntlets,
chain mail 16 gage steel wire butt linked 1/4"id, hauberk it extends to
mid thighs, an open face bascinet helm. total weight about 75 lbs. and I
do fall down and stand back up on a regular basis. As to the Sforza the
weight of armor works like a divers belt and weights you down so you drown.
Yours in Service
Laurie Brandt
Leo van de Pas wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Austin <Brian....@btinternet.com>
> To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 7:52 AM
> Subject: Armour (was John Prescott royal ancestry)
>
> > I'm sorry but this idea that armour was so heavy that it was difficult to
> > get up is quite untrue. Armoured knights were perfectly capable of getting
> > off the ground unaided. There was an example of this in one of the "Time
> > Team" programmes a few years ago when a member of the "White Company"
> > (medieval re-enactors) in full armour, threw himself on the ground and got
> > up straight away.
> > Brian Austin
>
> Dear Brian,
> Those armours, what were they made of? Plastic? Somewhere I have a story
> of (I think a) Sforza, in armour seated on his horse, while crossing a
> river, tried to pull up one of his soldiers but fell off and as he could not
> get up,
> he drowned.
> Best wishes
> Leo van de Pas
>
> > ROBERT E. BOWMAN wrote in message
> > <199909171720_...@compuserve.com>...
Kay Allen AG
Both. I am a former acting Mistress of Arts for the SCA and a
metalsmith-enamelist-lapidary, besides being a genealogist.
Could you be alittle more specific as to the manner in which I take
after great-grandpappy? I really prefer to be positive if I am being
insulted or not :-)
Kay Allen AG
Nathaniel Taylor
>Nathaniel Taylor wrote:
>>
>> In article <37E6AC...@pacbell.net>, all...@pacbell.net (Kay Allen
AG) wrote:
>>
>> >Robert J. O'Hara wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Butler says of John Prescott: "He was a blacksmith by occupation, and
>> >> was also a builder of mills. He had in his possession, brought from
>> >> England, a coat of mail armour..."
>> >
>> >If by mail, chain mail is meant, then he could walk around in it. Chain
>> >mail is made from steel rings fastened together in chains which are in
>> >turn fastened together. I can do it, I can't describe it well :-)
>> >
>> >Kay Allen AG Prescott descendant
>>
>> "I can do it...": does that mean you make the stuff, or walk around in
>> it? Either way you take after John quite well...
>
>Both. I am a former acting Mistress of Arts for the SCA and a
>metalsmith-enamelist-lapidary, besides being a genealogist.
>
>Could you be a little more specific as to the manner in which I take
>after great-grandpappy? I really prefer to be positive if I am being
>insulted or not :-)
Well, that's right careful of you. Most others around here don't pay any
heed to authorial intent when crying foul. But perhaps I can leave you
guessing...
Nat Taylor
R. Ben Madison
<9efG5BAM...@londwill.demon.co.uk>...
>Just shows how you can easily make a mistake on here...read the heading
>of this article and assumed, quite naturally, that it was referring to
>John Prescott, the current Deputy Prime Minister of the UK, not some
>17th century colonist.
LOL! That is just what I was thinking--it's the only reason I clicked on
this thread in the first place.
How many hereditary Labour peers are there, anyway? :-)
R. Ben Madison
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