MORDAUNT and FITZLEWIS - CP error?
Brad Verity
"A further FitzLewis question: Morant and Wright say that Sir Richard
was
son of Sir Lewis and Margaret Stonor, and grandson of Sir John
FitzLewis,
who m. 3 times and is covered in PA2 169."
There's a very good article - 'Sir James Tyrell: with some notes on
the Austin Friars London and those buried there' by W.E. Hampton
included in the 1985 book "Richard III: Crown and People", edited by
J. Petre.
In it, Hampton states, "Sir James [Tyrell, of Gipping, Essex, the
alleged murderer of the Princes in the Tower] was also connected,
distantly, with the Essex and Suffolk families of Harleston and
FitzLewis. After Barnet and Tewkesbury Robert Harleston's forfeited
manor of Enhale, Cambs., was granted to Richard, Duke of Gloucester.
[footnote: Robert Harleston's manor of Shimpling was granted to Sir
William Stanley in 1475, but restored in 1485. Robert Harleston
married Alice, daughter of Sir Henry Bruyn.] Lewis (or Ludwick) John,
son of Sir Lewis John by Alice de Vere (dau. of the 10th Earl of
Oxford), and husband of Margaret Stonor, died (as did Harleston,
probably) at Barnet. In 1482, Richard, Duke of Gloucester and William
Capel [brother-in-law of Sir James Tyrell's wife Anne Arundell of
Lanherne] were concerned in the repurchase of Ingrave (granted to
Gloucester by Edward IV) by Richard FitzLewis, son of the
above-mentioned Lewis John. [footnote: CCR 1476-85, no. 995, p.295.
Indenture dated 24 May 1482.]"
Robert Harleston's wife Alice Bruyn was first cousin to Sir James
Tyrell of Gipping. Alice's mother Elizabeth, wife of Sir Henry Bruyn,
and James's mother Margaret, wife of William Tyrell of Gipping, were
sisters. They were two of the six daughters of Robert Darcy of Maldon
(d. 1448).
"What is unclear is which of the 3
wives is the mother of Sir Lewis."
According to Hampton above, the mother of Lewis John [not designated a
knight], the father of Richard FitzLewis, was Alice de Vere.
"Although the histories says pretty
specifically that Sir Lewis was son by Anne Montacute (or Montagu),
they
also say that Sir John had a son Sir Lewis by another wife Alice de
Vere.
Were there perhaps two sons named Lewis?"
I don't know. I only know that the FitzLewis/FitzJohn/John/Whatever
family is one of the most confusing I've ever come across, and I'd
love to see it straightened out.
"You indicate that Sir Richard FitzLewis was son of Sir Lewis
FitzLewis by
Alice de Vere. Is this Sir Lewis the same person as Sir Lewis ap John
who
is indicated in PA2 169 as being married first to Alice de Vere and
then to
Alice Montagu? If so, it's curious that Sir Richard is not among the
children listed in the will of Sir Lewis."
According to Hampton, Sir Richard FitzLewis was the grandson of Sir
Lewis John and Alice de Vere. A generation - Lewis John and Margaret
Stonor - has either been skipped over by Paul Reed's sources, or added
in error by Hampton.
Hampton goes on to say that "Richard FitzLewis' uncle Sir Henry,
knighted (like Sir William Tyrell) at the battle of Northampton, was
married to Elizabeth, daughter of Edmund Beaufort, Duke of Somerset."
Now that would make Sir Henry FitzLewis the son of Sir Lewis ap John,
but by which wife is unclear.
It's all a big FitzMess.
Cheers, -----Brad
Reedpcgen
as parents of Alice Harleston, b. ca. 1457, who married as 1st wife Sir Richard
Fitz Lewis, b. ca. 1446, d. 12 July 1529, who was son of Lewis Fitz Lewis
***[here occurred a slip of the eye at some point during the editing
process]*** by his first wife Alice de Vere.
He held a moiety of Chardacre Hall in right of his wife; other Harleston and
Bardwell lands were divided between them and her sister Margaret Harleston,
with her husband Sir RIchard Darcy.
Sir RIchard and Alice (Harleston) Fitz Lewis's granddaughter and heires Ela
Fitz Lewis (n. 1510, d. 2 June 1543) was 1st wife of Sir John Mordaunt, 2nd
Lord Mordaunt. They are ancestors of the Princess of Wales and many other
peers.
There is a good article by Rev. H. L. Elliot, "Fitz Lewes, of West Horndon, and
the Brasses at Ingrave," in Transactions of the Essex Archaeological Society,
n.s., 6:28-53 (1912). The will of Sir Richard Lewis was dated 4 Dec. 1527 and
proved 24 Nov. 1529 (PCC 13 Jankyn). His IPM was taken at Norwich 15 Nov.
1529. There is also something on this family in the VCH Essex 7:105.
My copies of the documents pertaining to these families (when I wrote the
article on the Harlestons) is buried in storage. I'd done more research on the
Fitz Lewis/Lewes family, but that was nearly twenty years ago and the documents
are not handy.
As to Robert Harleston, husband of Alice Bruyn, he was uncle of Alice
(Harleston) Fitz Lewis (who was eldest daughter of his brother John). Robert
was b. ca. 1435 and killed at the Battle of Barnet 14 April 1471. Alice was
coheiress of her parents Sir Henry Bruyn (d. 30 Nov. 1461) and Elizabeth Darcy,
and had married (1st) John Berners, and (3rd) Sir John Heveningham. Her sister
Elizabeth Bruyn married William Brandon and was mother of Charles Brandon, Duke
of Suffolk and brother-in-law of Henry VIII.
Robert Harleston was "the counsell of my lord of Suffolk (John de la Pole, 2nd
Duke) by 1469, and followed John de Vere, Earl of Oxford, in the left wing of
the Battle Barnet. Though he was attainted in 1475, and lands granted to Sir
William Stanley on 26 June 1475, the attainder was reversed in 1485 and his
lands restored to his son (except that Chardacre Hall remained to the heirs of
his brother John).
Anne Montagu (daughter of John, Earl of Salisbury) married John Lewis after her
first husband Sir Richard Hankford died (he d. 8 Feb. 1430/1). His previous
wife, Alice de Vere, died about 1431. She had been married before that to Sir
Francis Court.
John Lewis married Alice de Vere 1413-14. Their eldest son Lewis was thereby
closely associated with the Earl of Oxford in the Wars of the Roses and was
attainted in 1475.
As Sir RIchard Lewis, born ca. 1446, son of Lewis Fitz Lewis, it seems there
was a slip of the eye in the editing process, and that an eye slipped from the
Lewis of Lewis Fitz Lewis to the Lewis preceding mention of the wife of his
father John Lewis, who was married to Alice de Vere. (Lewis was eldest son of
Sir John Lewes and his first wife Alice de Vere.)
Thank you for catching this, Brad, when I dig through my storage at some point,
I will keep my eye open for my old Harleston manuscript.
Does Hampton cited Elliot's article?
Paul
Brad Verity
> There is a good article by Rev. H. L. Elliot, "Fitz Lewes, of West Horndon, and
> the Brasses at Ingrave," in Transactions of the Essex Archaeological Society,
> n.s., 6:28-53 (1912).
[snip]
> Does Hampton cited Elliot's article?
Hampton does not cite this article, Paul. He only touches on the
Harlestons and FitzLewises in the brief paragraph and two footnotes
that I transcribed. The Close Rolls 1476-85 is the only specific
citation he makes.
UCLA Library has 'Transactions of the Essex Archaelogical Society' on
reserve, so I'll hunt that article down and copy it. Anything that
helps sort out these FitzLeweses will be great.
Do you delve into them further in your 1988 article in 'The
Genealogist'? What is the name of that article? I'd like to get a
copy of it as well.
Thanks and Cheers, ------Brad
John Higgins
Based on the latest notes from Brad and Paul, the descent to the Mordaunt
family (and thus to Prince William) appears to be as follows:
Sir Lewis [ap] John (who is also called John Lewis or Sir John FitzLewis)
was m. (1) to Alice de Vere and (2) to Anne Montagu.
He was father, apparently by the 1st marriage, to:
Lewis FitzLewis (d. at battle of Barnet), m. Margaret Stonor
Sir Richard FitzLewis, m. (1) Alice Harleston
William FitzLewis (d. vp) m. ?? Anne Lovell ?
Ela FitzLewis, m. Sir John Mordaunt, 2nd Lord Mordaunt
Does this look right?
Sir Lewis ap John had at least two other children who are also ancestors of
Prince William. Elizabeth FitzLewis who m. Sir John Wingfield is said in
PA2 to be a daughter of the 2nd marriage. As Brad notes, Sir Henry
FitzLewis who m. Elizabeth Beaufort is also a son of one of the two
marriages - which one is unclear. To further confuse things, Both Morant's
Essex and Wright's Essex give Sir Lewis ap John an additional, 1st marriage
to Elizabeth Nevill, dau.of Robert. ??
I'll be looking forward to hear what Brad finds in the Elliot article in
TEAS....it should fill in the gaps left by the tantalizing clues in Paul's
Harleston article.
John Higgins
"Who begot whom is a most amusing kind of hunting" - Horace Walpole
Reedpcgen
>Prince William. Elizabeth FitzLewis who m. Sir John Wingfield is said in
>PA2 to be a daughter of the 2nd marriage. As Brad notes, Sir Henry
>FitzLewis who m. Elizabeth Beaufort is also a son of one of the two
>marriages - which one is unclear. To further confuse things, Both Morant's
>Essex and Wright's Essex give Sir Lewis ap John an additional, 1st marriage
>to Elizabeth Nevill, dau.of Robert. ??
Since this should all be in PA3, I've been surprised that Doug has not posted
on this material. I don't want to invest time digging into storage if Doug can
quickly resolve all of this at a few strokes of the key.
Doug, how 'bout it?
Paul
Chris Phillips
John Higgins wrote:
> Based on the latest notes from Brad and Paul, the descent to the Mordaunt
> family (and thus to Prince William) appears to be as follows:
>
> Sir Lewis [ap] John (who is also called John Lewis or Sir John FitzLewis)
> was m. (1) to Alice de Vere and (2) to Anne Montagu.
> He was father, apparently by the 1st marriage, to:
>
> Lewis FitzLewis (d. at battle of Barnet), m. Margaret Stonor
>
> Sir Richard FitzLewis, m. (1) Alice Harleston
>
> William FitzLewis (d. vp) m. ?? Anne Lovell ?
>
> Ela FitzLewis, m. Sir John Mordaunt, 2nd Lord Mordaunt
>
> Does this look right?
I'm not sure about Ela's father being William FitzLewis. Paul Reed posted,
15 July, that her father was Thomas FitzLewis, who d. v. p. (a correction to
CP Mordaunt, which called him John).
Chris Phillips
John Higgins
William, whom Paul reported to be the father of Ela who. m. John, 2nd L.
Mordaunt.
John Higgins
"Who begot whom is a most amusing kind of hunting" - Horace Walpole
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Phillips [mailto:c...@medievalgenealogy.org.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 9:40 AM
> To: GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com
> Subject: Re: MORDAUNT and FITZLEWIS - CP error?
>
>
>
Chris Pitt Lewis
sometimes Lodwick John, not John Lewis or FitzLewis. He was of Welsh
origin, so John is presumably a patronym, not a surname, which is how
the confusion arises. FitzLewis is first used as a name by Lewis John's
children, and means exactly what it says - it translates "ap Lewis".
As well as the article by H L Elliot in Transactions of the Essex
Archaeological Society, quoted by Paul Reed, I know of 3 other
discussions of Lewis John's career:
1. In History of Parliament, Commons 1439-1509 (London 1936) p 503. This
article has his parentage wrong, and has no information about his early
career
2. J L Fisher - The Petre Documents, in Transactions of the Essex
Archaeological Society NS 23 (1942-45) pp 66-97
3. A D Carr - Sir Lewis John, A Medieval London Welshman, in Bulletin of
the Board of Celtic Studies Vol 22 (1967) pp 260-270.
The last article reconstructs his career in some detail from primary
evidence. His first appearance is in 1402 (CPR 4 Henry IV, 13 nov 1402)
when he was appointed deputy in the Port of London to Thomas Chaucer,
the King's chief butler, whose protege he seems to have been. He is
described as citizen of London and vintner in 1406, though in 1412 he is
described as a goldsmith. Stow's Survey of London recounts a story of
his entertaining the Prince of Wales, later Henry V, and his brothers;
this may be true, as his rise in the King's service after 1413 was
rapid, though it must also have been helped by his spectacular marriage.
On 21 mar 1413 Lewis John and Richard Bukelande were appointed
commissioners to collect subsidy in the Port of London (CFR Henry V p
13) - Lewis had had this appointment in previous years also). On 18 sep
1413 an order was addressed to the collectors of customs and subsidies
in the Port of London "without taking custom or subsidy to suffer Alice
who was wife to Sir Francis de Court Kt to have a fardel with divers
things needful for her household, a parcel of her raiment, and two
chests with the tiere and other her things needful therein, shipped in a
galley of Venice which is in that port" (CCR Henry V Vol 1 p 33).
Sir Francis Court was a Lombard knight naturalised in England 9 oct
1406, who had been Keeper of Pembroke Castle. He died 11 sep 1413
according to his IPM taken at Andover Hants 11 dec 1413.
On 1 jan 1414 Louis Johan and Alesia late the wife of Francis Court
chivalier tenant in chief were pardoned for their trespass in
intermarrying without licence, on payment by him of a fine of 5 marks
(CPR Henry V, vol 1 p 164).
Faced with a rich widow, 15th century Welshmen obviously moved fast. One
thinks of a better known example some 15 years later.
Alice was apparently the sister of Richard de Vere (d 1415) 11th Earl of
Oxford. No account I have seen gives a proper source for this, though
the statement can be traced back at least to Ralph Brook's Catalogue of
Nobility (1619). However, the PRO website has now revealed a
contemporary statement. In 10 Henry VI Lewis John Esq took proceedings
in Chancery against Thomas Haynes, "sometime servant to Sir John de Veer
Kt brother of the petitioner's late wife" and others concerning a false
declaration made by compulsion of the Earl of Oxford concerning the
enfeoffment of the manor of Dullingham and the manor of Langdon and
Amees (PRO: C/1/9/370). Sir John de Vere was brother of Richard Earl of
Oxford. Furthermore, in his will proved 3 apr 1505, the earl's grandson
Sir George Vere called Sir Richard FitzLewis (Lewis John's grandson) "my
cousin" (Testamenta Vetusta p 445).
Alice brought into the marriage the Manors of Tytherley and Lockerley in
Hampshire, and within a few years Lewis had acquired several more
manors, mostly in Essex.
After Alice's death, Lewis married Anne Montagu dau of John 3rd Earl of
Salisbury. The marriage took place after 8 feb 1431 when Anne's previous
husband Sir Richard Hankeford died and presumably before 14 March 1433
when he was granted the marriage of Anne one of the daughters of Sir
Richard Hankeford.
He was knighted 15 may 1439, and died 27 oct 1442. His heir was Lewis
FitzLewis (sometimes also confusingly called Lewis John) his eldest son
by his first wife. Lewis FitzLewis was the father of Sir Richard
FitzLewis (d. 1528).
Lewis John's parentage is unknown, and there are conflicting clues. We
can ignore the statement in the History of Parliament, apparently
deriving from Morant's History of Essex, that he was son of a Richard
FitzLewis and Elizabeth le Ba. This is part of a fictitious pedigree of
the Mordaunt family, deriving him from an illegitimate son of the
Dauphin Louis who invaded England in 1216.
In 1414 he had to petition Parliament for exemption from the penal laws
which prevented Welshmen acquiring land in England. His petition says
that he was a freeman of London and that both his parents had been Welsh
(Rot Parl iv 44, quoted by Carr, BBCS). In the 1420s he received a
number of testimonials from various officials in South west Wales, such
as the Mayors of Carmarthen Pembroke and Cardigan, to counter
allegations that he was not of free birth. The Mayor of Carmarthen said
that he was "a gentleman of our country"; the Abbot of Whitland said
that he was descended from the ancient lords of Wales (also quoted by
Carr). These statements may of course be exaggerations, but it is
possible that a careful search of Bartram's pedigrees might turn up
something.
The other evidence is a pair of entries on the Patent Rolls (CPR 1401-5
p.69 and 1405-8 p.131) referring to Lewis John "administrator of the
goods of Stephen John, citizen and vintner of London, who died
intestate". Following this clue, I found the Will of Stephen John,
citizen and vintner of London, dated 13 Oct 1393, proved in the
Archdeaconry of London in 1394 (Register 1 fo.8 - Guildhall MS 9051/1).
It names his son Lewis ("Lodewyco filio meo") and wife Julian. He
appoints as executors John Marchal Esquire ("armiger") and Hugh Shore
vintner. He was to be buried in St Mary Woolnoth.
It is not at all clear whether this Stephen is the same as the one
mentioned in the patent roll entry, and if it is, whether his son Lewis
is the Lewis John we are concerned with. It is not impossible to
reconcile this with the statements about Lewis' Welsh parentage (Stephen
could have come from Wales to London with an infant son). Nor is it
unlikely that a Welsh family would wobble between an hereditary surname
("John") and a patronym ("(Fitz)Lewis") for a generation or two at this
period. Lewis John's eldest son did precisely this. But it is worrying
that we have a reference to Lewis John "goldsmith" in 1412 (CCR Henry IV
vol 4 p 340) as well as the references to vintners, and more research is
needed to be sure that we are not dealing with several different
individuals of the same name in the years before 1413.
CPR = Calendar of the Patent rolls
CCR = Calendar of the Close Rolls
CFR = Calendar of the Fine Rolls
--
Chris Pitt Lewis
Brad Verity
> The progenitor of the FitzLewis family was called Lewis John, or
> sometimes Lodwick John, not John Lewis or FitzLewis. He was of Welsh
> origin, so John is presumably a patronym, not a surname, which is how
> the confusion arises. FitzLewis is first used as a name by Lewis John's
> children, and means exactly what it says - it translates "ap Lewis".
Chris, thank you for this very thorough account.
> As well as the article by H L Elliot in Transactions of the Essex
> Archaeological Society, quoted by Paul Reed, I know of 3 other
> discussions of Lewis John's career:
> 1. In History of Parliament, Commons 1439-1509 (London 1936) p 503. This
> article has his parentage wrong, and has no information about his early
> career
You must check out the article on Lewis John in "History of
Parliament: The House of Commons 1386-1421", Edited by J.S. Roskell,
Linda Clark and Carole Rawcliffe. Published in 1993 it incorporates
so much more information than the 1936 article.
I copied it at the Library and will be happy to send you a copy if HOP
is unavailable to you.
> 2. J L Fisher - The Petre Documents, in Transactions of the Essex
> Archaeological Society NS 23 (1942-45) pp 66-97
> 3. A D Carr - Sir Lewis John, A Medieval London Welshman, in Bulletin of
> the Board of Celtic Studies Vol 22 (1967) pp 260-270.
These two articles above are used as sources in the 1993 HOP article.
> Faced with a rich widow, 15th century Welshmen obviously moved fast. One
> thinks of a better known example some 15 years later.
>
> Alice was apparently the sister of Richard de Vere (d 1415) 11th Earl of
> Oxford. No account I have seen gives a proper source for this, though
> the statement can be traced back at least to Ralph Brook's Catalogue of
> Nobility (1619). However, the PRO website has now revealed a
> contemporary statement. In 10 Henry VI Lewis John Esq took proceedings
> in Chancery against Thomas Haynes, "sometime servant to Sir John de Veer
> Kt brother of the petitioner's late wife" and others concerning a false
> declaration made by compulsion of the Earl of Oxford concerning the
> enfeoffment of the manor of Dullingham and the manor of Langdon and
> Amees (PRO: C/1/9/370). Sir John de Vere was brother of Richard Earl of
> Oxford.
THE HOP article says, "During John's absence abroad [he left for
France in May 1431 in the retinue of Cardinal Beaufort] his wife died,
and a dispute arose between him and her nephew, John, earl of Oxford,
over the manors of Langdon and 'Ames' in Essex and Dullingham in
Cambridgeshire, these properties having been settled on Alice and
Lewis John by her brother, Sir John de Vere."
> Alice brought into the marriage the Manors of Tytherley and Lockerley in
> Hampshire, and within a few years Lewis had acquired several more
> manors, mostly in Essex.
HOP: "Alice de Vere, as the widow of Sir Francis Court, held dower
estates in Hampshire, and it was in her right that John came into
possession of land in Holbury and East Tytherley in that county. He
also obtained formal custody of the manors of Tytherley and Lockerley
during the minority of Court's heir, but his election as knight of the
shire for Hampshire in 1414 owed much more to the manipulation of
Chaucer (sheriff of the county at the time) than to any recent
acquisitions of property.
> After Alice's death, Lewis married Anne Montagu dau of John 3rd Earl of
> Salisbury. The marriage took place after 8 feb 1431 when Anne's previous
> husband Sir Richard Hankeford died and presumably before 14 March 1433
> when he was granted the marriage of Anne one of the daughters of Sir
> Richard Hankeford.
HOP: "In about 1433 John married again, his new wife, Anne, being once
more the daughter of an earl. Successive marriages to a de Vere and a
Montagu illustrate his increasing wealth and importance, but his
second marriage was also indicative of his continuing association with
Thomas Chaucer, whose daughter was Anne's sister-in-law."
> He was knighted 15 may 1439, and died 27 oct 1442. His heir was Lewis
> FitzLewis (sometimes also confusingly called Lewis John) his eldest son
> by his first wife. Lewis FitzLewis was the father of Sir Richard
> FitzLewis (d. 1528).
HOP: "The possession of so much property in Essex made inevitable the
establishment of a county family, which adopted the name FitzLewis.
John's eldest son by his first marriage, Lewis FitzLewis, obtained the
stewardship of Havering [atte Bower, Essex] in his place and in 1444
undertook to fulfill the obligations contained in his father's will,
should the resources specified prove insufficient."
Lewis FitzLewis also became an MP, "joined the de Veres on the
Lancastrian side in the Wars of the Roses and was attainted in 1475",
dying in 1477/80, according to the article on his son Sir Richard
FitzLewis in "History of Parliament: the House of Commons 1509-1558",
published in 1982.
> Lewis John's parentage is unknown, and there are conflicting clues. We
> can ignore the statement in the History of Parliament, apparently
> deriving from Morant's History of Essex, that he was son of a Richard
> FitzLewis and Elizabeth le Ba. This is part of a fictitious pedigree of
> the Mordaunt family, deriving him from an illegitimate son of the
> Dauphin Louis who invaded England in 1216.
HOP[1993]: "A Welshman of dubious origin who became a financier, a
landowner of substance and the son-in-law of two earls, Lewis John was
an unusual and interesting figure."
> In 1414 he had to petition Parliament for exemption from the penal laws
> which prevented Welshmen acquiring land in England. His petition says
> that he was a freeman of London and that both his parents had been Welsh
> (Rot Parl iv 44, quoted by Carr, BBCS). In the 1420s he received a
> number of testimonials from various officials in South west Wales, such
> as the Mayors of Carmarthen Pembroke and Cardigan, to counter
> allegations that he was not of free birth. The Mayor of Carmarthen said
> that he was "a gentleman of our country"; the Abbot of Whitland said
> that he was descended from the ancient lords of Wales (also quoted by
> Carr). These statements may of course be exaggerations, but it is
> possible that a careful search of Bartram's pedigrees might turn up
> something.
HOP[1993]: "Petitioning in the Parliament of November 1414 (when
himself sitting for Hampshire), he stated that both his parents were
Welsh, and a number of documents about his background date from
between 1424 and 1427 when, in an attempt to dispel rumours that he
was a bondman by birth (which perhaps stemmed from envy of his rapid
advancement), he obtained certificates from various Welsh municipal
and ecclesiastical authorities testifying to his independent status.
The mayor of Carmarthen, for example, declared that John was 'a
gentleman of our country', free-born and of 'the best family in this
part of Wales from the Conquest to the present day'."
> The other evidence is a pair of entries on the Patent Rolls (CPR 1401-5
> p.69 and 1405-8 p.131) referring to Lewis John "administrator of the
> goods of Stephen John, citizen and vintner of London, who died
> intestate".
HOP[1993]: "In 1406 he was referred to as a citizen and vintner of
London, and in the same year he acted as administrator of the will of
another London wine merchant, Stephen John (almost certainly a
relative)."
> Following this clue, I found the Will of Stephen John,
> citizen and vintner of London, dated 13 Oct 1393, proved in the
> Archdeaconry of London in 1394 (Register 1 fo.8 - Guildhall MS 9051/1).
> It names his son Lewis ("Lodewyco filio meo") and wife Julian. He
> appoints as executors John Marchal Esquire ("armiger") and Hugh Shore
> vintner. He was to be buried in St Mary Woolnoth.
This is very good digging, Chris, and is not a source used by the
author of the John article in the 1993 HOP.
> It is not at all clear whether this Stephen is the same as the one
> mentioned in the patent roll entry, and if it is, whether his son Lewis
> is the Lewis John we are concerned with.
Would Lewis John still be acting as administrator in 1406 of a
merchant who died 8 years previous in 1394? If so, then it may very
well be the same Stephen and Lewis John.
> It is not impossible to
> reconcile this with the statements about Lewis' Welsh parentage (Stephen
> could have come from Wales to London with an infant son). Nor is it
> unlikely that a Welsh family would wobble between an hereditary surname
> ("John") and a patronym ("(Fitz)Lewis") for a generation or two at this
> period. Lewis John's eldest son did precisely this.
Lewis FitzLewis "was known inter alia as the s. and h. of 'Lewis
FitzJohn' (C67/42 m.25)" [HOP1993].
> But it is worrying
> that we have a reference to Lewis John "goldsmith" in 1412 (CCR Henry IV
> vol 4 p 340) as well as the references to vintners, and more research is
> needed to be sure that we are not dealing with several different
> individuals of the same name in the years before 1413.
HOP[1993]: "With a view to his forthcoming departure [to France], in
the Parliament of 1430 he had petitioned for a legal distinction to be
made between him and a Lewis John of Fowey, who had been sentenced to
outlawry."
Great research, Chris - you practically mirror the author of the 1993
HOP article, who was getting paid for the research!!
And on that note, HOP is accepting applications for a researcher on
the House of Lords 1660-1832 volumes. Check out their website:
I think you'd be great.
Cheers, ------Brad
Brad Verity
> Sir Richard FitzLewis, m. (1) Alice Harleston
>
> William FitzLewis (d. vp) m. ?? Anne Lovell ?
>
> Ela FitzLewis, m. Sir John Mordaunt, 2nd Lord Mordaunt
Both Sir Richard FitzLewis and Sir John Mordaunt were MPs and have
articles in the 1982 HOP.
> Does this look right?
HOP confirms it except Sir Richard's son was named Thomas, not
William.
> Sir Lewis ap John had at least two other children who are also ancestors of
> Prince William. Elizabeth FitzLewis who m. Sir John Wingfield is said in
> PA2 to be a daughter of the 2nd marriage. As Brad notes, Sir Henry
> FitzLewis who m. Elizabeth Beaufort is also a son of one of the two
> marriages - which one is unclear. To further confuse things, Both Morant's
> Essex and Wright's Essex give Sir Lewis ap John an additional, 1st marriage
> to Elizabeth Nevill, dau.of Robert. ??
>
> I'll be looking forward to hear what Brad finds in the Elliot article in
> TEAS....it should fill in the gaps left by the tantalizing clues in Paul's
> Harleston article.
I haven't looked at the Elliot article yet, but the HOP 1993 article
on Sir Lewis John says: "Another son, Henry FitzLewis, married the
youngest daughter of Edmund Beaufort, duke of Somerset, thus
continuing his father's long association with the Beauforts. John's
widow [Anne de Montagu] married John Holand, duke of Exeter. By the
time of her death in 1457 the only children of her marriage to the
Welshman left alive were Elizabeth, wife of Sir John Wingfield, and
Margaret, wife of Sir William Lucy."
The article doesn't state which wife of Sir Lewis John was the mother
of Sir Henry FitzLewis, but if he was alive after 1457, then it had to
have been Alice de Vere who was his mother. Conversely, if Anne de
Montagu was his mother, then we know Sir Henry was dead, and his
daughter Mary FitzLewis, Countess of Rivers, was born, prior to 1457.
Cheers, ------Brad
Chris Phillips
"Brass of the Month" the monument to Sir Richard FitzLewis (d. 1528) and his
four wives. An image of the brass (click for a larger one) is accompanied by
some discussion of the family.
The page also draws attention to the recently published Essex volume in the
"County Series" of Monumental Brasses, edited by William Lack, H. Martin
Stuchfield and Philip Whittemore. Further details, including an online index
of names, are available here:
http://home.clara.net/williamlack/pages/essex.htm
Chris Phillips