Alice, wife of John de Beaumont, of Drayton
Jim Weber
Rosie Bevans reposted, 21 Mar 2003, a post from 2002, which contained
a possible ancestry for Richard de Beaumont of Witnesham, father of
Joan who married Giles de Brewes. An excerpt of that post is
contained below.
While browsing through the Sir Thomas Dagworth article in The Complete
Peerage, I found a note which may pertain to the Rosie's pedigree. CP
IV:27 and note (g) state:
"Sir Thomas de Dagworth, yr. s. of John de Dagworth of Dagworth,
Suffolk, and Bradwell Essex, Usher of the Exchequer (b. 25 Apr 1276),
d. 27 July 1332), by Alice (m. after 4 July 1292, d. 15 May 1333),
elder da. and coh. of William fitz Warin (g). . . .
(g) This William d. before 13 Jun 1290. His widow, Alice, m. John de
Beaumont, of Drayton and Scarning, Norfolk, Grimston, Suffolk, &c.,
who d. shortly before 24 Sep 1298. She m. 3rdly (lic. 21 Aug 1301),
John Spring. She d. 5 Mar 1314/5, when Alice, aged 30, wife of John
de Daggeworth kt., was found to be her elder da. and coh. (Patent
Rolls, 18 Edw I, m. 24; 20 Edw I, m. 8; 27 Edw I, m. 38 d; 29 Edw I,
m. 9; Fine Roll, 26 Edw I, m. 4; Ch. Inq.p.m., Edw I, file 65, no 16;
Edw II, file 36, no 3; Pipe Roll, 10 Edw II)."
This may be the Alice who was holding Witnesham in dowry prior to
inheritance by Joan and her son Richard, which would tend to support
the connection of John Beaumont with Joan, wife of Giles de Brewes.
She had previously been speculated to have been Richard's wife. The
fact that John is "of Drayton" tends to connect him to Rosie's
Bellomonte/Beaumont family of Suffolk. John's death date would match
closely with the 1297, but it would appear that Alice was a late wife
(after 1290), and not mother of any of his children.
Hope this helps.
Jim Weber
- - - Below is an excerpt from Rosie's previous post- - -
Recently it has been shown by John Ravilious that Joan de Beaumont, da
of
Richard Beaumont of Witnesham, and wife of Giles de Brewse d.1311, was
also
wife of Edmund Bacon who died in 1337.
The ancestry of Joan has been something of a puzzle, but today I came
across a
possible placing for her through information from W.A.Copinger, The
Manors of
Suffolk, (Fisher-Unwin,1905) v.1. Unfortunately this volume does not
cover
Witnesham, but it appears that the Beaumont, or Bellomonte family, had
interests in
other manors in Suffolk - namely a third share of Groton and Semere,
Levenya
Strattons manor in Assington and possibly Boxfield.
These were held by Godfrey de Bellomonte who died without issue in
1293 and was
succeeded by his brother Sir John Bellomonte who died in 1297, leaving
a widow
Alice. He was succeeded by his son Richard Bellomonte, who held in
1299.
Chronologically it is possible that Joan is daughter of this Richard.
A full pedigree of the descendants of Robert Cokefield (d. temp.
Richard I), is
shown on p.111 and includes that of Sir John Bellomonte which is
reproduced
below.
1.Robert de Cokefield
2.Gunnora de Cokefield=William Drayton
3.Alicia de Drayton=William de Bellomonte 8 John [1206/7]
4.William de Bellomonte of Drayton=Alicia da. and coh. of
Fulco d'Oyri
5.Godfrey de Bellomonte d.s.p.=Cecilia de Ferrers
s.[sister?] and h of Hugo de Ferrers s. of William E. of Derby
5.John de Bellomonte
If Joan was a descendant of Sir John de Bellomonte, it is difficult to
tell by the
devolution of the above manors, as their history afterwards as given
by Copinger is
rather patchy. Hopefully the above may help in uncovering further
information about
the Beaumonts.
Cheers
Rosie
Rosie Bevan
Many thanks for posting this find. Going over the details I have arrived at
a slightly different interpretation.
It does indeed look like Alice, formerly wife of John de Dagworth, was the
widow of John de Beaumont of the Copinger pedigree. That Alice was not
mother of Richard de Beaumont, his son, however, is evident from her IPM of
1315 [CIPM V no. 507], which records that her daughters and next heirs were
Alice, wife of John de Dagworth, aged 30 and Iseult, wife of John de
Belhous, aged 24 and more.
Richard de Beaumont was known to be alive in 1306 when he made a fine with
Giles de Brewse and Joan over Brompton manor, Suffolk. An Alice de Beaumont
was holding the same manor in 1326, which leads one to believe she was
probably Richard's widow, as John's widow was dead by this time [Copinger,
v.3 p.122]. The question is, which Alice was holding Witnesham as per the
inquisition of Giles de Brewse in 1311? It is not mentioned in the IPM of
Alice, John's widow, in 1315, which leads me to believe that the Alice
holding Witnesham was more likely to be Richard's widow.
Although the evidence is circumstantial, on the assumption that Joan and the
Drayton Beaumonts are of the same family, this is a provisional pedigree.
1. John de Beaumont d.1298
+(1)NN
2. Richard de Beaumont fl 1306
+ Alice fl 1323
3. Joan de Beaumont d. aft 1326
+ Giles de Brewse d.1311
+(2) Alice, widow of William fitz Warin d.1315
Cheers
Rosie
Jim Weber
Thanks for the additional information. It looks right to me. And
sorry for pluralizing your name (Bevans); it was late at night.
Jim Weber
Jim Weber
I spent yesterday afternoon searching A2A and the ONLY
Bellomonte/Bello monte people that I found were:
1) "Godfrey de bello monte" as a witness in Flixton, Suffolk in "early
13th cent."
2) "William de Bello Monte" as a witness in Chelmundeston
[Chelmondiston], Suffolk in "early 13th cent."
3) "William de Bello monte" as a witness in St Ewen, BRISTOL CITY
[Gloucester], in 1272-1273.
4) A number of references to John de Bello monte, plus a couple of
references to William de Bello monte, his father, in
Hessett/Hegissete, Suffolk, of which I have included the text of one
interesting item, which would seem to pertain to our John, son of
William:
"A2A, Suffolk Record Office, Ipswich Branch.
HESSETT
FILE - Evidences of title - ref. HD 1538/257/1-126 - date:
13c.-1619/20
item: Feoffment - ref. HD 1538/257/4 - date: n.d.[early-mid 13c.]
\_ [from Scope and Content] 1. William de Bello monte
\_ [from Scope and Content] 2. John de Bello monte, his son
item: Grant - ref. HD 1538/257/22 - date: n.d.[early-mid 13c.]
\_ [from Scope and Content] For homage and service and ½ mark of
silver, (1) to (2), 7d. annual and quit rent to be taken at 2 annual
terms from tenements in Hegissete [Hessett], viz. 2½d. for land (3a.)
of which 1a. lies between (2)'s land and land of Sir John de Bello
monte, 1a. lies between land of J.B. and land of Robert son of
William, and 1a. between lands of (2) in Stobbeleye; and 4½d. for land
and pasture called Le Haute; half to be paid at feast of St Edmund and
half on Palm Sunday; to hold of (1) and heirs, paying 1 rose annually
on feast of St John the Baptist for all services and secular demands.
Warranty clause. Witnesses: Hervey de Hegissete, John de Herst,
William de Hulmo, Andrew the merchant, Alexander Bruning, Robert son
of Thomas de Bradefeud, William de --- [illegible], Robert Bacun,
William Fot, Thomas Abot, Robert de Hulmo and others."
"Robert Bacun" could be somehow connected to Edmund Bacon, 2nd husband
of Joan Beaumont. Subsequent entries were witnessed by "John Bacun",
whose property bordered one of the fields held by John Bello monte.
There were numerous descriptions of other properties using the
property of Sir John de Bello monte, knt, as a boundary, or as a
witness (the last being 22 Sep 1297) until in 21 Nov 1301, a
description of a property is said to be bound on several sides by land
"formerly of Sir John Bello monte". There is yet another property
description using the "formerly of Sir John Bellomonte, knt" on 7 June
1304. There is no indication of who held the property then, and 1304
was the last reference to the family name. 1304 was 6 years after John
died, so shouldn't someone else have held by that time?
PRO-CAT didn't seem to have anything that pertained to the
Beaumont/Bellomonte/Bello monte family of Suffolk.
Anyway I think we can probably add Hessett, which is about 5 miles E
of Bury St Edmunds to the list of properties held.
I easily identified the towns of Drayton and Scarning in Norfolk
mentioned in CP IV:27 note (g) as being held by John de Beaumont, but
I did not find a town named Grimston in Suffolk -- only one in
Norfolk. However there is a Grimston Hall in the town of
Trimley-St-Martin, about 8 miles SE of Ipswich. If CP is correct in
its identification of a Grimston in Suffolk, then Grimston Hall may be
the property held by John. It is listed as a Domesday property by a
Suffolk website, and, according to a walking tour website for
Trimley-St-Martin it was owned by Thomas Cavendish, the "2nd
Englishman to circumnavigate the globe", in Elizabethan times,
although it is/was not the original manor house.
That seems to be all I could find for now.
Jim Weber
rbe...@paradise.net.nz ("Rosie Bevan") wrote in message news:<022701c33170$9e418ca0$de00...@mshome.net>...
Hal Bradley
<snip>
<"Robert Bacun" could be somehow connected to Edmund Bacon, 2nd husband
<of Joan Beaumont. Subsequent entries were witnessed by "John Bacun",
<whose property bordered one of the fields held by John Bello monte.
<snip>
<Jim Weber
Copingers' "Manors of Suffolk" v. 5 indicates that Adam Bacon held the
manor of Oulton in Suffolk. Adam married Margery, daughter of Simon
Felton. His son was Edmund Baconwho married 1) Joan and 2) Margery Poynings.
Copinger cites [I.Q.D., 7 Edw. II. File 94, 19].
Moor's "Knights of Edward I" indicates that this Edmund had a brother
named John who served as the King's clerk and died in 1321. Possibly
this is the John Bacun mentioned in Jim's post. I have not come across
Robert Bacon.
Not much, but maybe another small piece of the puzzle.
Hal Bradley
Richard C. Browning, Jr.
Some light on this subject may be shed by looking at the entries for
John Dagworth and the Bello Montes in "Knights Of Edward I" published by
the Harliean Press, or more specifically the vague references the author
provides. Check Vol 1 page 261 for the Dagworth entry and Vol. 1 page
77 for John Bello Monte.
The entry for John Bello Monte mentions him having seisin of rents in
Grimston, Norf., among other places. Also on page 77 is the entry for
Godfrey, which mentions Grimston, Suff. So I don't know which is
correct.
Hope this helps
Richard C. Browning, Jr.
Richard C. Browning, Jr.
Grand Prairie, TX
Jim Weber [mailto:jimw...@nwintl.com] Wrote
<Snip>
Jim Weber
Thank you for the information.
I don't have any sources for the Bacon family, but I had the
impression that Robert was predecessor of John, in that Robert tended
to be at the front of the list of transactions, along with John's
father William, while John was in the latter part of the list, along
with John de Bellomonte. It does seem that the list of transactions
within a catalogue are somewhat ordered by date, or appoximate date.
This father/son relationship is confirmed when I searched for "Bacun"
in "Hessettt", where there are several transactions listed in the
"early-mid 13th century" for "Robert Bacun of Hegesete [Hessett], wife
Alice and son John". The last time Robert is mentioned is as a
witness in 5 Jun 1290, with all subsequent ones referring to John
Bacun. The last one for John is as a witness 25 May 1316. There is
an additional "John Bacun jun. of Heggesethe [Hessett]" listed as a
witness 29 Oct 1340, and that is the last reference to Bacun in
Hessett.
So does your source give the father of Adam Bacon. If this John is
Edmund's brother then their parents would be Robert and Alice.
Jim Weber
hw.br...@verizon.net ("Hal Bradley") wrote in message news:<LPBBIIHAMNBCLHEIGAM...@verizon.net>...